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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/14/2008 10:54:30 PM
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Butterflytearz
Posts: 142
Joined: 7/6/2006
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quote:
And I realized that after the divorce, I never loved my ex - not the way love is supposed to be according to God. But God blessed both my husband and I with a wonderful loving marriage that is God focused.
Dear MC
Are you in the same marriage now that was abusive or are you referring to another marriage that God blessed?
If it is the same marriage how long did it take until you and your husband came together ?
ty.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/16/2008 4:01:52 PM
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MC4JC
Posts: 201
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Minnesota
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Oh no, God has given me a wonderful loving husband - more then what I ever thought I could have. I would NEVER go back to an abuser! This is the 2nd marriage of me and hubby - his ex cheated on him (among other things). We both wound up divorced (or waiting for the final paperwork) about the same time.......God's planning :)
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/16/2008 4:52:39 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1587
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
The OP is not in physical danger. Emotional abuse is horrible, but it is not automatically a warrant for divorce, nor a hopeless situation.
I completely disagree with this. Abuse is abuse and shouldn't be tolerated by anybody in a marriage, so I wouldn't says its not a warrent for divorce.
Buttercup> You need to get your husband into some kind of counciling/therapy. I know a lot of people on here only specify Christian councilers, and if that's your choice to go with, so be it. Its definitely a step in the right direction. His continual verbal and emotional abuse of you is a sign that he has some serious psychological issues, some of which probably are control-related and/or insecurity related since he's gone as far as to order you to give up any friendships he might have.
Also, as was suggested earlier, if the abuse DOES turn physical report it.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 8/16/2008 10:37:45 PM >
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/17/2008 10:58:31 AM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
The OP is not in physical danger.
I believe the above is the reason you are getting the reaction you are receiving. It was explained that other types of abuse can have effects on you physically. Sitting around until it becomes physical is not rational advice either - which does happen alot - its like people will guage the amount of fear and intimidation for you since you are somehow not qualified to do that for yourself. 
There are quite a few cases in which distance and a RO is needed to deal with people that are abusive in other ways. You have to remember some people are more sick than others. Thankfully some men and women that are abusive get it pretty quick, and turn their lifes around. Others it seems like their denial, and feel they are entitled to their way of life. They will not respect your boundaries - no matter HOW loving and respectful you are! Walking away or refusing to banter will threaten them, and they will pump up the volume. You know you need to get out, but when you try - even if they told you to leave - it can be very dangerous. They could snap into the physical realm. They will intimidate you, and some will even scream how much they would love to hurt you right now. We aren't talking sane people here! Just because people have enough self control to NOT punch your lights out at that moment doesn't mean they can't scare you to death.
Divorce may not be a cure all - I agree! At times separation it is needed for everyone's welfare! If your spouse intimates or scares you that should be a red flag to others that there is a possibility something awful could happen. I don't think anyone would condone having them sit around and wait for it so they will feel better about it. Although I have seen that requested!  It was usually someone else trying to guage their fear for them, and that to me is sinful personally!
Divorce may not always be needed, but separation is only smart. Its proactive to make sure someone doesn't get hurt - or goes to jail. What is sad is normally people that are abusive will either harass by 30 calls a day, showing up where you are, calling friends and family to forward messages or to whine about their pain. How they are sorry and how you should come home now, etc. Some that go back see how they tighten their grip more to make sure you don't leave again.
To say the op is not in physical danger right now is seen as a simplistic remark. It maybe true, but it doesn't recognize other factors that could be in play. We aren't talking about rare circumstances in this realm either. Sadly its very common. 
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/17/2008 10:32:58 PM
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ldt37
Posts: 2
Joined: 8/17/2008
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Well girlfriend you don't want to look up and it be 20 year later or 5 black eyes later.I dont believe God want us to fight or except being beaten by someone who is suppose to love us.I have a big problem with men who beat on woman .You desire better then that.Dont lose yourself in him he is not worth it.Remember God got you.....
I am born again
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I am born again
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/18/2008 1:21:38 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
Y'all, I never said she should sit around and do nothing. 
She is at the beginning of this process, and he is not beating her. There are steps that she can take take to work on this before leaving. If they don't work, she can level up. It *may* come to separation, but it doesn't have to be "Ciao!" from the first moment she realizes his behavior is unacceptable.
I agree.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/18/2008 8:38:40 PM
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MC4JC
Posts: 201
Joined: 7/6/2008
From: Minnesota
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Its not a wise thing to stick around and wait for the beating. I wish I had known more about verbal/emotional abuse and I would have left a lot sooner. My ex never got to the beating stages (came close and put a few holes in the walls).
You cannot "reason" with an abuser - they will always be right and you wrong - no matter how much you try to be calm. They will twist whatever you say and turn it back on you making you feel like the one that is in the wrong. Believe me, I lived thru it.
I had to completely cut myself off from him physically and mentally to stay till I ended the marriage. There was no talking to him, reasoning with him.
Once the abuse starts, it doesn't end till one or the other is out of the house. Very very few abusers will change. They may for a short time, but will go back to worse if allowed. IMO the poster needs to get out physically and stay out till she decides what to do.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/18/2008 10:04:45 PM
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BookReader
Posts: 4
Joined: 8/18/2008
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Have hope and faith in Heavenly Father that everything will turn out great. Of course you both do need to be willing to work together in making this marriage a wonderful lasting one. Relationships can be challenging and it does take work. Don't give up. Read great books on marriage together that can give you tips on specific things you can do. Sometimes I thinks books are better than even seeing a therapist.
BookReader
(link edited TOS 13 and 15)
< Message edited by Kath -- 8/19/2008 2:31:18 PM >
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 7:17:53 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
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"in need of marriage advice"
The thing about seeking advice from friends, family, or any lay person, is that it's inevitably colored by the other person's own experiences. The Bible does say to seek Godly counsel but, at the same time, I know He expects us to be discerning.
When we hear someone asking for advice or input on these boards, it's up to us to try to respond in a Christ-like Biblical way. But it's also about near impossible for us, in our humanness, not to respond from where we are and where we've been ourselves. That's why we have to be very careful taking advice from people here or even in our "real" lives.
All that to say, what's to say there's not a miracle God wants to do in this? Buttercup came here with, what she believes to be, God's word in this for her. She came here for encouragement. Sure, a few, "don't be foolhearty" warnings were probably in order but how about some support in believing for her marriage to be miraculously turned around. She didn't get that. I don't think she's even still reading this. Hopefully she'll find some support with a little more faith.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 10:58:01 AM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
Once the abuse starts, it doesn't end till one or the other is out of the house. Very very few abusers will change.
This one has. He was beating her, and he stopped.
Hate to say this, but just because someone stops punching doesn't mean change. I mean we all wish it does, and we can pray that does...in most cases they will do things in other realms. That isn't change. That shifting the abuse in other areas. Having her get rid of friends because he is threatened by them shows how unstable this man is. When you have a drunk that stops drinking, and starts to do drugs instead....that's not changed. That's shifting.
I pray that they both get the help and support they deserve!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 11:33:57 AM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
Sure, a few, "don't be foolhearty" warnings were probably in order but how about some support in believing for her marriage to be miraculously turned around. She didn't get that. I don't think she's even still reading this. Hopefully she'll find some support with a little more faith.
No support? Maybe you need to read it again.
quote:
If you don't already go to church, you should start. This will give you a support system in addition to a good Bible class and Biblical teaching. Also join the women's group. You need to have women friends. Don't let your husband bully you about this. It is not healthy to go through life with no friends.
That doesn't sound unfaith.
quote:
I certainly don't think this is hopeless but I do think you have to learn how to deal with living with a man who is abusing you. As you get healthier you will be able to stand up to him and not let him treat you so badly. No one deserves to be treated like this but you have to get healthy so you can see that you don't deserve this either.
If you have a pastor please go to him you'll be surprised how much help there is out there and how many people will come along beside you and hold you and your husband up in prayer. God bless you and your husband.
that doesn't sound unfaith either. There are others as well. Go back and read it again.
Leaving doesn't always mean divorce. It must sound like to most, but its not. Most want the abuse to stop, and that doesn't mean replacing it with a different form. They both need help of different sorts, and that is the reality of it. If they both choose to do so, and do the real work with a good support system in place...along with God's help - they could have their marriage miraculously turned around. In most cases abuse doesn't instantly disappear. God speaks of these types of broken souls, and speaking of the reality of them doesn't mean unfaith. If he is isolating her, and keeping her away from friends - there is a reason for that. He doesn't want her to have support, because that scares him to death. He wishes the truth to be hide. Scripture says let the light truth be shone. They both need that most of all! They both need God's help, and they need the truth to come out. YOu can't do that if she isn't going to speak to friends or anyone else. SHe is also broken.
The first and at times hardest step in this is to come out of denial, and deal with what is happening. God would wish us to do that also, and at times you do have to leave -even if they are NOT hitting you! You don't have to be hit to be scared. Bullies can scare you without laying on hand on you before people seem to think 'its only words'. Its much more than that. Stepping out and opening your mouth at times is scarey as well, because you know what their reaction is going to be. That takes a leap of faith, and that needs to be her first step in healing. I pray that she reaches out, and they both received the help and support they will need!
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 4:34:13 PM
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Kerryannism
Posts: 106
Joined: 9/28/2007
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Get out. No one who loves you would say those things EVER. And NEVER would they strike you. Its okay to make mistakes, get out, start over. You deserve better.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 7:08:45 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerryannism
Get out. No one who loves you would say those things EVER. And NEVER would they strike you. Its okay to make mistakes, get out, start over. You deserve better.
But where's that in the Bible? My only caution is that we need to be careful where we're getting the advice we give.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/19/2008 7:51:24 PM
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Hislittleone
Posts: 624
Joined: 7/13/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: Kerryannism
Get out. No one who loves you would say those things EVER. And NEVER would they strike you. Its okay to make mistakes, get out, start over. You deserve better.
But where's that in the Bible? My only caution is that we need to be careful where we're getting the advice we give.
I think we can all agree that the Bible does not define love as being verbally abusive nor is it loving to hit your spouse. And we certainly all agree that no woman deserves to be abused verbally or physically. So that leaves the part about getting out. Do we really think that Jesus would tell an abused woman to stay in the same house with such a wicked man? I just can't imagine that.
I'm not saying that this marriage isn't salvageable. Miracles do happen. But that depends at least in part on this man choosing to change. God won't make him change. It's his choice. And many, many times the abuser chooses to never change. I've heard stories of well meaning Christians advising a woman in how to deal with a wicked, abusive man and the woman ends up in a much worse situation. So we need to be very cautious when advising a person to stay in an abusive situation. I couldn't in good conscience encourage this woman to keep living with her husband without offering some strong warnings. IMO she needs to seek professional Christian counsel as to whether it's safe to keep living with him. Since this situation was physically abusive that indicates it could very well go back that way, especially since it doesn't appear he's received any professional help and is still being abusive. I personally would rather err on the side of caution rather than have someone follow my (well meaning) advice and end up getting themselves hurt or killed.
quote:
quote:3Cappuccinosmom
Once the abuse starts, it doesn't end till one or the other is out of the house. Very very few abusers will change.
This one has. He was beating her, and he stopped.
He stopped hitting her but he did not stop abusing her.
Also, since it's been 3.5 years I wouldn't say that she's just starting out/beginning in this. She didn't say "Ciao from the first moment" . She stuck with him for 3.5 years. He isn't hitting her now, which is good. But he is still abusing her.
What's going to happen if they go through a really stressful time such as pregnancy/having a child, or loss of job or any number of other things that will send an abusive man over the edge again? She needs professional (Christian) help in deciding what to do.
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/20/2008 6:58:58 AM
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3cappuccinosmom
Posts: 2520
Joined: 4/12/2005
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If quitting beating on someone isn't change, what is? If a man posted whose wife had been throwing things at him and using him as a punching bag on a regular basis, and had shifted down to just being verbally nasty to him, would you all be so quick to tell him to dump her, and insist she couldn't change? If verbal abuse is *that* bad (and I agree, it's unacceptable), would you tell a man who's being verbally abused exactly the same thing, that his wife can't change and he should leave her? How well would "Dump her, you deserve better" go over here if it were referring to a verbally abusive woman?
quote:
Also, since it's been 3.5 years I wouldn't say that she's just starting out/beginning in this.
In terms of seeking help and taking action, from her post it sounds to me like it is a beginning.
_____________________________
 Moo
Shameless Self Promotion~Christmas giveaway this week!
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/20/2008 8:52:31 AM
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hnt
Posts: 529
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
If quitting beating on someone isn't change, what is? If a man posted whose wife had been throwing things at him and using him as a punching bag on a regular basis, and had shifted down to just being verbally nasty to him, would you all be so quick to tell him to dump her, and insist she couldn't change? If verbal abuse is *that* bad (and I agree, it's unacceptable), would you tell a man who's being verbally abused exactly the same thing, that his wife can't change and he should leave her? How well would "Dump her, you deserve better" go over here if it were referring to a verbally abusive woman?
quote:
Also, since it's been 3.5 years I wouldn't say that she's just starting out/beginning in this.
In terms of seeking help and taking action, from her post it sounds to me like it is a beginning.
So you would tell a person that had a spouse that was an alcholic that quit drinking and started to do drugs instead that they changed, and if that isn't change you don't know what is?
YES Capp I would tell a man that maybe separation would be a good idea if she is beating him, and verbally assaulting him! If he is reaching out and asking for advice its clear that it is damaging to him. I see no different at all. I wouldn't tell them they can't change, because I believe they can personally. Its a long hard road for both of them, but it does work when BOTH (notice not just one) are on board and willing to do the work! If the victim received their own help, and their abuser didn't I still feel that is needed and helpful in alot of realms. Paul Hegstrom is a good example of an abuser that changed.
I personally don't see the gender difference, and never have seen it. We have all heard of abusive mothers for example. Why would they not attack their spouses at times as well?
Here is a video on liveleak that someone posted to show a women that is abusive. Are you going to say this behavior would only be damaging to those in the video? Would tell a person that you realize its unacceptable, but since your married its not *that bad*? If you hear the rage you can see how scary it is, and how it could easily go into other realms.
It amazes me that people can make assumptions on verbal and emotional abuse and how severe it is when you can read tons of material of people that have been beat in the past say that it is the VA/EA that wounded them the most. Then you have others saying - nahhhhhhh! That's NOT true! Its just 'unacceptable', and at least you aren't being HIT! Victims of child abuse and physical abuse say it was the words that peirced like a sword and damaged the most for them, and then you have the world telling them they have it all wrong. How can people decide they have the right to define such things for them? There are plenty of survivors stories out there that say it, and then people mininize the damage because its not a fist. they don't realize how quickly it could change to the fist, but people tell them since it didn't happen it can't be that bad - its just unacceptable. How completely sad.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
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RE: in need of marriage advice - 8/20/2008 2:36:35 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2675
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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Can I speak for you Maggie? If not, just tell, me and I'll delete the post.
The way I'm seeing it ISN'T that Maggie is in any way shape or form trying to JUSTIFY abuse of any kind.
However, where I see her heart coming from, is that although verbal abuse is bad,
1. She sees marriage and the vows people take as very very important, and would rather see the problem overcome, rather than the marriage fail forever. Statistics do show that people who overcome their problems and stay married are happier down the road than people who divorce. Methinks that somewhere i | | |
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I think that what the OP is dealing with is really bad and her husband is in the wrong. 
