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slimon11 -> Definitions of Discernment (8/2/2008 7:55:35 PM)

There is a lot of talk about discernment here; lining things up with the truth of the Bible. I know discernment means more than this. Do you guys have some better definitions for me? Here is Webster's says:

Discernment

Dis*cern"ment\, n. [Cf. F. discernement.]

1. The act of discerning.

2. The power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another; power of viewing differences in objects, and their relations and tendencies; penetrative and discriminate mental vision; acuteness; sagacity; insight; as, the errors of youth often proceed from the want of discernment.

Thank you so much, hope you are all having a good weekend!



armydude -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/2/2008 8:57:11 PM)

A pastor told me one time that discernment is seeing whether someone is telling the truth or not by their actions; seeing if you're talking to someone that needs help or someone that is taking you for a ride.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/3/2008 5:27:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slimon11

There is a lot of talk about discernment here; lining things up with the truth of the Bible. I know discernment means more than this. Do you guys have some better definitions for me? Here is Webster's says:

Discernment

Dis*cern"ment\, n. [Cf. F. discernement.]

1. The act of discerning.

2. The power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another; power of viewing differences in objects, and their relations and tendencies; penetrative and discriminate mental vision; acuteness; sagacity; insight; as, the errors of youth often proceed from the want of discernment.

Thank you so much, hope you are all having a good weekend!


“judicial estimation,” “through judgment or separation”): Occurs in 1Co_12:10 as being one of the gifts of the Spirit. The Greek word occurs in Hebrews 5:14; But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.


and Romans 14:1 : Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions.

Taking these passages together it is evident that the Greek term which is rendered “discerning” means a distinguishing or discriminating between things that are under consideration; hence, the one who possessed the gift of “discernings of spirits” was able to make distinction between the one who spoke by the Spirit of God and the one who was moved by a false spirit. This gift seems to have been exercised chiefly upon those who assumed the role of teachers, and it was especially important, because there were many false teachers abroad (see 2Jo_1:7; Act_20:29, Act_20:30). (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia)



slimon11 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/3/2008 10:20:51 PM)

Thank you for you responses. Does anyone know of a good bible dictionary online?

quote:

This gift seems to have been exercised chiefly upon those who assumed the role of teachers, and it was especially important, because there were many false teachers abroad.


Do you agree that the gift is meant to be used mainly on teachers and those in leadership? What about when witnessing and ministering to others?



Cloak -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/3/2008 10:47:57 PM)

We will always need the gift of discernment in our ministry and as Christians in general. The Holy Spirit is the Best guide to us in this respect.

When I think of Discernment I think of the ability to weed out the withered herbs from my garden so that I can reap and see the good and green herbs.

We need discernment in Every area in our life.

Blessings!



BerianAardvark -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/3/2008 11:09:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slimon11

Thank you for you responses. Does anyone know of a good bible dictionary online?

quote:

This gift seems to have been exercised chiefly upon those who assumed the role of teachers, and it was especially important, because there were many false teachers abroad.


Do you agree that the gift is meant to be used mainly on teachers and those in leadership? What about when witnessing and ministering to others?


The gifts are generally an "extra helping" of what we all have. Just because gift isn't in the area of faith does that mean we will not have faith? Or if our gift isn't in the area of giving are we excused from aiding in the support of our church, or aiding those in need?

By the same token, we are all to develop discernment, but those with a special gifting by the Holy Spirit will have a special knack for it. This would be especially useful to those who teach and are in leadership roles to either have for themselves or to have others around them who do.

But merely because our particular gifting isn't discernment we are not free to be lead astray by false doctrines and teachers, we are called upon to be Berean.

But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, (1 Timothy 4:1)

For everyone who partakes only of milk is not accustomed to the word of righteousness, for he is an infant. But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil. (Hebrews 5:13-14)


Tim

Caveat Ichthus
[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



slimon11 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 12:10:23 AM)

Berian, I agree that discernment would be a great use to any teacher or leader. I should've worded my question better. What I am trying to ask is: Is the main purpose of the gift to weed out false teachers and doctrines or, is there other uses of the gift?

For example, Being a good listener and being aware of non-verbal communication can tell you a lot about a person; what their spiritual problems are, maybe allow you to see the question someone is indirectly seeking an answer to, etc.

Is being in tune to others in this way a form of discernment or simply people/communication skills? If it is a form of discernment, does it differ from the "gift of discernment?"

Thanks.



OneJohn410 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 1:29:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slimon11

There is a lot of talk about discernment here; lining things up with the truth of the Bible. I know discernment means more than this. Do you guys have some better definitions for me? Here is Webster's says:

Discernment

Dis*cern"ment\, n. [Cf. F. discernement.]

1. The act of discerning.

2. The power or faculty of the mind by which it distinguishes one thing from another; power of viewing differences in objects, and their relations and tendencies; penetrative and discriminate mental vision; acuteness; sagacity; insight; as, the errors of youth often proceed from the want of discernment.

Thank you so much, hope you are all having a good weekend!

quote:

Berian, I agree that discernment would be a great use to any teacher or leader. I should've worded my question better. What I am trying to ask is: Is the main purpose of the gift to weed out false teachers and doctrines or, is there other uses of the gift?

For example, Being a good listener and being aware of non-verbal communication can tell you a lot about a person; what their spiritual problems are, maybe allow you to see the question someone is indirectly seeking an answer to, etc.

Is being in tune to others in this way a form of discernment or simply people/communication skills? If it is a form of discernment, does it differ from the "gift of discernment?"


Hi Slimon11,
I don't remember seeing discernment in the line-up of spiritual gifts. It is there, and I consider it more to relate to discerning a message, as in interpreting a dream. Discernment as you define it- well, if you are gifted to be able to use your 'smarts', that's what they are there for.

It looks to me like you are simply talking about common discernment of the everyday Christian. I've had to undergo a good bit of this lately. Check out this OT passage.

From the NLT
"What sorrow for those who drag their sins behind them with ropes made of lies, who drag wickedness behind them like a cart!
They even mock God and say, 'Hurry up and do something! We want to see what You can do. Let the Holy One of Israel carry out His plan, for we want to know what it is.' What sorrow for those who say that evil is good and good is evil, that dark is light and light is dark, that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter." Isaiah 5:18-20

I do not see that discernment means more than how you've defined it. What I consider important about discernment is that it is not treated in a day to day basis- oh, I'd like a two-scoop cone of rocky road tonight, because I had strawberry last night. That's not discernment.

Discernment to me is reaching a decision on course of action A or B based on what I know to be good, true, Christ-like, and then following through on it. I really like how the 'helps' text for that passage read. "When people see no distinction between good and evil, destruction soon follows. It is easy for people to say, 'No one can decide for anyone else what is really right or wrong.' (They may think things out to where there's nothing wrong, and things are fine.) But when they make excuses for their actions, they break down the distinction between right and wrong. If people do not take God's Word, the Bible, as their standard, soon all moral choices become fuzzy. Without God, they are headed for a breakdown and much suffering."

I think you've got a blend of the two discernments going in here, and I hope this helps with the one.

In Christ,
OneJohn410



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 2:56:42 AM)

dis·cern·ment. di-surn-ment. n. 1. Jumping to a conclusion about someone then berating them for denying the false evaluation. 2. Saying to someone, "I can read you like a book," then telling them something you think is true about them, and getting upset when they deny what you said. 3. Allowing your imagination to get away from you and claiming that G-d revealed it to you.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 8:10:01 AM)

Well said, OneJohn410.



DaveW -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 10:52:48 AM)

THere are 2 NT verses where discernment is mentioned (in the greek Rom 14.1 is also listed but does not appear to affect the definitions). They are:

1Co 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.

Heb 5:14 But solid food is for those who are full grown, who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern good and evil.

In the 1 Cor verse, it is speaking of a specific charismatic gifting, one of the 3 revelatory gifts along with word of knowledge and word of wisdom. In practice it is used to distinguish what kind of demonic entity would be harassing someone, or that they are acting under the influence of. (one does not need to be "possessed" or demonized to be affected by a demon) It consists of the Holy Spirit giving information about the situation to the person ministering.

In the Hebrews verse, it is talking about growing to maturity. In growing in both heart and head knowledge of the Lord and His Word, one starts to get an innate sense of what is biblical and godly and what is not. This is the discernment spoken of in this passage.



solarflare -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 11:42:21 AM)

quote:

dis·cern·ment. di-surn-ment. n. 1. Jumping to a conclusion about someone then berating them for denying the false evaluation. 2. Saying to someone, "I can read you like a book," then telling them something you think is true about them, and getting upset when they deny what you said. 3. Allowing your imagination to get away from you and claiming that G-d revealed it to you.


Oh boy do I know where you're coming from! Exactly so.

But then, there is what is real.



BerianAardvark -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 2:17:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

dis·cern·ment. di-surn-ment. n. 1. Jumping to a conclusion about someone then berating them for denying the false evaluation. 2. Saying to someone, "I can read you like a book," then telling them something you think is true about them, and getting upset when they deny what you said. 3. Allowing your imagination to get away from you and claiming that G-d revealed it to you.


Discernment, like the Holy Spirit often gets a "bad rep" when people try to claim that their actions and words are determined by it rather than by their own desires and motivations, but that is merely Satan's counterfeit, not true discernment or true leading by the Spirit.

Tim
Caveat Ichthus
[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/4/2008 2:44:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BerianAardvark
quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
dis·cern·ment. di-surn-ment. n. 1. Jumping to a conclusion about someone then berating them for denying the false evaluation. 2. Saying to someone, "I can read you like a book," then telling them something you think is true about them, and getting upset when they deny what you said. 3. Allowing your imagination to get away from you and claiming that G-d revealed it to you.

Discernment, like the Holy Spirit often gets a "bad rep" when people try to claim that their actions and words are determined by it rather than by their own desires and motivations, but that is merely Satan's counterfeit, not true discernment or true leading by the Spirit.

Tim
Caveat Ichthus
[sm=icon_smile_fish.gif]

Yeah -- that was based upon past experience but so tongue in cheek that I am going to have to find some strong instrument to pull my tongue out before lunch break.



slimon11 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/8/2008 11:22:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

THere are 2 NT verses where discernment is mentioned (in the greek Rom 14.1 is also listed but does not appear to affect the definitions). They are:

1Co 12:10 and to another workings of miracles; and to another prophecy; and to another discerning of spirits; to another different kinds of languages; and to another the interpretation of languages.


In the 1 Cor verse, it is speaking of a specific charismatic gifting, one of the 3 revelatory gifts along with word of knowledge and word of wisdom. In practice it is used to distinguish what kind of demonic entity would be harassing someone, or that they are acting under the influence of. (one does not need to be "possessed" or demonized to be affected by a demon) It consists of the Holy Spirit giving information about the situation to the person ministering.


Hi DaveW, thanks for answering, this is what I am trying to learn more about. Can you give me a real life example of this type of 1 Cor discernment? How does someone with the gift know what kind of demonic entity they would be dealing with? Obiviously this is different than the common observation and listening skills I described in one of the above posts. What kind of information might the Holy Spirit give about another person for minstering purposes?



slimon11 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/8/2008 11:33:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OneJohn410


What I consider important about discernment is that it is not treated in a day to day basis- oh, I'd like a two-scoop cone of rocky road tonight, because I had strawberry last night. That's not discernment.



In Christ,
OneJohn410

Hello OneJonh410, Thank you for taking the time to post. I have to admit, you have lost me here. I don't understand what you are trying to say...



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/9/2008 11:31:59 AM)

I have learned to have a complete lack of trust in:
anyone who claims to have discernment,
anyone who claims to know things no one told them,
anyone who claims G-d "told" them something,
anyone who claims that their only teacher is the H Spirit,
anyone who goes off on any eyes-glazed oration,
anyone who accuses someone while the evidence is not present.

To the last person of the above that I have known,
they were all fake, and
they were all on an ego trip.

Some were additionally completely unable to assimilate into any religious social group, and they thought they were holier because of this.

The personally-unfortunate part of this is that I was surrounded by such folk long enough that I also do not trust my own discernment. Adding to this is the fact that I have made mistakes myself.



Cloak -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/9/2008 12:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga

I have learned to have a complete lack of trust in:
anyone who claims to have discernment,
anyone who claims to know things no one told them,
anyone who claims G-d "told" them something,
anyone who claims that their only teacher is the H Spirit,
anyone who goes off on any eyes-glazed oration,
anyone who accuses someone while the evidence is not present.

To the last person of the above that I have known,
they were all fake, and
they were all on an ego trip.




Why Abiyah, Discernment is a gift every true Christian is entitled to? God wants to speak to us. He wants us to have a gift of being able to distinguish true from false.

Thru this gift of discernment, I have saved myself and my life LOTS and Loads of problems which I wouldn't have had have I not had this gift of discernment. Dating scenes with Mr. wrong; going to false churches; choosing my girlfriends and the list goes on...you name it.



Paul_Thomas -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/9/2008 1:37:12 PM)

There is obviously more than one school of thought on the meaning of "discerning of spirits" found in 1 Corinthians 12. What one believes about these spiritual gifts depends upon their orientation to such things. The charismatics are going to put more a a supernatural, or spiritual emphasis upon them where non-charismatic, evangelical believers are going to put more of a rational emphasis.

Discerning of spirits, if we are to take this phrase in the context in which it was given, appears to be referring to something that goes beyond human experience and the ability to determine the motives of another based upon ones life experiences. Paul lumps this "gift" among such supernatural phenomona as miraculous powers, prophecy, speaking in different languages and interpreting what was spoken in another language. All of those gifts require abilities beyond what is normal among us mortals.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/9/2008 3:26:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cloak
Why Abiyah, Discernment is a gift every true Christian is entitled to? God wants to speak to us. He wants us to have a gift of being able to distinguish true from false.

Thru this gift of discernment, I have saved myself and my life LOTS and Loads of problems which I wouldn't have had have I not had this gift of discernment. Dating scenes with Mr. wrong; going to false churches; choosing my girlfriends and the list goes on...you name it.

We all base much of what we believe on life experience. We adults are enthralled by the faith of children, desiring it, because for most of them, for the fortunate among them, their life-experience is limited enough to allow full faith. They learn about Messiah, are presented with the simple plan of salvation, and they simply believe, without hesitation, with glorious faith, with no questions. Just like that, they love the L-rd and are accepted by Him into the kingdom.

The rest of us? We come to Him with baggage.

By the time I understood that He first called for me, as a four-year-old, I had the baggage of one much older, and I forcibly pushed Him away, on purpose, with eternity in mind. And because I was reared in the family I was in, in the cult we were in, I saw much.

(1) anyone who claims to have discernment Today, I have full faith in G-d but very, very limited faith make that NO faith in human beings who make claims that they have some "gift" of discernment. First, if they have such a gift, I doubt they would think it necessary to proclaim it.
(2) anyone who claims to know things no one told them Because I have more often than not seen them proven to have made false statements
(3) anyone who claims G-d "told" them something Because too often, what they claim G-d told them disagrees with the clear Word of G-d
(4) anyone who claims that their only teacher is the H Spirit Because in my experience, what such learn, to the total, is not what the Bible says but is their incompetent and selfish reinterpretation of what the Bible says
(5) anyone who goes off on any eyes-glazed oration Because they are invariably on an ego trip coupled with a strong desire for adulation
(6) anyone who accuses someone while the evidence is not present Because while I have seen this done to others, and wondered about the accuracy of the accusation, I have had it done to me often enough that I believe nothing of these accusers and see them as instruments of the evil one, accusing the believers. Why? Because the accusations leveled at me by those in the old church were wrong, and when told that they were wrong in their imagined accusations, they would not hear it, insisting that they were right. It was laughable, but that was their story, and they were sticking to it, because, they thought, they had "discerned" it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
To the last person of the above that I have known,
they were all fake, and
they were all on an ego trip.


BUT!
Since leaving that church, I have had others speak truth to me, even to me about me, and they were right. The difference? They just spoke matter-of-factly. No "I know things because G-d told me." No great show. No "I can read you like a book" stuff. Simple conversation which included simple statements.

It is not as though I believe no one; it is simply that there are certain ones I don't believe. And I have great difficulty believing myself.



slimon11 -> RE: Definitions of Discernment (8/9/2008 7:15:29 PM)

Thank you Paul Thomas for your common sense post, good to remember not all Christians think alike.



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