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What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/2/2008 7:28:37 PM
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JCMK
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I'm not asking what the qualifications are for a Bishop or Deacon as commanded in I Timothy 3. I'm asking about the qualifications for a layman who says he is called to preach and usually "speaks" on Wednesday nights or fills in for the pastor.
Scriptures please.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/2/2008 9:28:13 PM
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JCMK
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WOW! Two hours - Twenty hits - Zero answers.
Guess I don't feel so bad because I studied and search the Bible all day Thursday and couldn't find a specific answer.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/5/2008 9:05:43 AM
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JimboFletch
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Well, for one thing, your terms are all confusing. A layman called to preach but not a preacher. Does "elder" sound close to what you're looking for? Maybe not, since elders are also ordained and can't really called laymen. Maybe what you need is layman preacher, an unbiblical term, but, then, "layman" is also an unbiblical term...
That could be a root cause for all those hits and no desire to bother posting.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/5/2008 5:33:03 PM
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JCMK
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First, I go to a small country church that is not under any organization. We have a Pastor and several Deacons. We did have an Assistant Pastor, but unfortunately his wife left him two years ago and he got so discouraged that he quit church. So now our Pastor quite often allows a regular member of our church (we don't have formal memberships or names written in a book) to "speak". The man will say that he is preaching, but in my heart I can not give him that title because he has two living wives.
His first marriage and divorce was before he got saved. Some in the church believes that he was forgiven of all his sins and can therefore preach. I, and many other people, believe that he is not qualified to preach.
I don't want to get in a discussion about his divorce and two living wives. Please don't turn this discussion into another Divorce/Remarriage one. What I was wanting to know is what other Pastors think about this situation, and who do they allow behind their pulpits. What is your belief that the qualifications for a man to be able to preach?
I studied the Bible in great detail for a long time and I don't see where the Bible gives definite requirements for a man to be called a preacher or be allowed to preach. However, I believe that the requirements in I Timothy for a Bishop and for a Deacon applies to anyone who wants to preach or even claims to be called to preach.
Is that more clear? I don't want to sound critical or judgmental. I am a woman, and therefore not allowed to speak in church, be a Deacon, or even attend the meetings. All I can do is pray, seek God for guidance, and do whatever I feel I should do - ie, keep going there and endure it when he speaks, or find another church.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/5/2008 5:39:06 PM
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revbob4God
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Sister, I do not know all the particulars. However, You say the Preacher was divorced before he was saved. You did not give detail on what the first divorce was all about or the condition of the second marriage, or the condition of the Preacher's home, ie marriage, children, level of acceptance of the Holy Spirit, Daily Bible reading, et cetera.
Although I appreciate you not wanting to take this into a marriage/divorce issue, part of the advice depends on the nature of the first marriage ending in divorce, and the nature and definition of the second marriage among other things.
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For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I the Lord; and none else.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/6/2008 9:02:53 AM
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JCMK
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I know the particulars of his first marriage, divorce, and second marriage, but I don't want to discuss them on here.
Actually, I don't think it matters what the particulars are - he has two living wives, and in my opinion that disqualifies him from preaching. I wanted to know how other Ministers and Pastors felt and if they would allow a man with two living wives to "preach" in their church.
I guess I must be stricter than most as I believe the Bible literally and feel that I Timothy applies to preachers, teachers, evangelists, pastors, deacons and any man who holds an office in church or performs any type of spiritual leadership.
I wanted answers that didn't discuss the issue of marriage and divorce because that subject is discussed in detail. I was hoping for interpretations of the scripture for just this one question.
If no one knows of particular scriptures that covers the qualifications for a man who feels that he is called to preach, but not pastor or evangelize, then that's okay. I believe what I believe and don't imagine that anyone would be able to change my mind, although I wanted to hear other's opinions and beliefs.
Thanks!
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/6/2008 4:37:30 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JCMK
I know the particulars of his first marriage, divorce, and second marriage, but I don't want to discuss them on here.
Actually, I don't think it matters what the particulars are - he has two living wives, and in my opinion that disqualifies him from preaching. I wanted to know how other Ministers and Pastors felt and if they would allow a man with two living wives to "preach" in their church.
I guess I must be stricter than most as I believe the Bible literally and feel that I Timothy applies to preachers, teachers, evangelists, pastors, deacons and any man who holds an office in church or performs any type of spiritual leadership.
I wanted answers that didn't discuss the issue of marriage and divorce because that subject is discussed in detail. I was hoping for interpretations of the scripture for just this one question.
If no one knows of particular scriptures that covers the qualifications for a man who feels that he is called to preach, but not pastor or evangelize, then that's okay. I believe what I believe and don't imagine that anyone would be able to change my mind, although I wanted to hear other's opinions and beliefs.
Thanks!
First, I agree with your interpretation about two wives, but that doesn't make you or me stricter or more literal than opposing views. One of the most literal, strict preachers I've ever known, John R. Rice - who published "The Sword of the Lord" from it's beginning in 1934 until his death in 1981 - wrote an article once where he stated that he interpreted that to mean "only one wife at a time" and if a marriage had been legally dissolved through divorce and the man remarried, he was the husband of only one wife and, therefore, qualified to hold office in a church (if called and met the other qualifications). That really floored me, but I respected his opinion.
You are by no stretch of the imagination stricter or more literal than John R. Rice. That I can guarantee.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/6/2008 8:42:36 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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1 Timothy 2:2; And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.
1 Timothy 4:2; Preach the Word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
Aren't we all called to 'preach' the Word..? We are all ambassadors of Christ, we are all called to 'preach' the Word throughout the world...didn't Jesus tell us to do that before He ascended into heaven..?
Obviousely your Pastor has no issue with it, I am curious as to why you are so bothered by it. It has to be more than the divorce/remarriage issue, which really is not an issue. God washes all stains away once we come to Him, that's called 'saving grace' right..? Were not his past transgressions erased by the Blood of Jesus..?
This isn't a jealosy issue is it..? Because deep down, if it is, then that is bringing yourself down onto a very slippery slope. I pray that is not the case, but I have to wonder why this bothers you so much and not your Pastor.
matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 12:06:19 PM
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JCMK
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No, I don't believe that we are all called to Preach - as in behind the pulpit. I am a woman and therefore not allowed to preach by the very same Bible. I couldn't be jealous. That isn't possible since I am a woman and have never felt the call the preach. My spirit is troubled when someone gets behind our pulpit that I believe the Bible says is not qualified.
I have always believed that ANY man who preached, taught, or had any authority in church has to have one living wife - the same as he has to have his house in order, be blameless, sober, vigilant, of good behavior, given to hospitality, etc., etc.
If a man can get behind the pulpit who doesn't meet any one of those qualifications, isn't it wrong to for the Pastor to allow that?
As for the church I am speaking about, it's seems that the disagreement comes from the definition of "Bishop", as much as the "two-living-wives" fact. When I studied the Bible on this subject, I believe that a Pastor is also called an Elder, Overseer, Servant, Steward, Bishop and other titles. Therefore, if a Pastor is all of those things, shouldn't anyone who gets behind the pulpit also be required to meet these standards in I Timothy, chapter 3?
Or do we allow just any man to stand behind the pulpit to preach because the Bible doesn't specifically say "A preacher must be ....................."?
It has to be one way or the other. Either every man is required to meet those standards, or they don't. If they don't, then we could even go further and say that a woman can preach because she doesn't have to be a man.
I just feel that there has to be some control over who gets behind our pulpits, and the Bible has to be our source to decide.
P.S. Please don't get off on the subject of women preachers. All I want to know is what Pastors consider when they allow someone to speak behind their pulpits.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 12:21:08 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JCMK
I just feel that there has to be some control over who gets behind our pulpits, and the Bible has to be our source to decide.
I agree but as I pointed out, some of the most conservative scholars ever to live have a different understanding of what more than one living wife means - and they use the very same Bible.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 12:38:50 PM
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DaveW
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You are asking for a biblical qualification for an extra biblical position. There is no indication to my knowledge of someone in the NT who is just a "preacher" without being an apostle, elder or deacon. Indeed, it seems to be the norm that those who preached were elders:
1Ti 5:17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching.
I too believe there needs to be accountability behind the pulpit and I will ask you this: who is your senior pastor accountable to? If the answer is "no one" or "God only" or just "the congregation," get out of there. If he has no accountability, there will be little or none elsewhere in the congregation.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 2:07:06 PM
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JCMK
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DaveW
I guess your answer explains why there haven't been many posts in response to my question. Unless people believe that the scriptures in I Timothy apply to anyone who gets behind the pulpit or in an authoritive position in a church, then anybody can be allowed to "preach", or teach for that matter.
Our church is a small independent church. The Pastor answers to no one. We have two Deacons and one believes one way and the other believes the other way. The Pastor obviously believes that anyone can "preach" in his church since he allows it.
Guess I'm just old fashioned or something. It bothers me tremendously to the point of looking for another church. I have gone there for over 30 years and have known most of the people longer than that. But it doesn't feed my soul as long as I feel like something is going on that isn't right (Biblical). This is not a new battle - it has been going on for a long time. But it is happening more and more, which is why it is troubling me more and more.
Thank you for your opinions and advice. I trust that God will lead me in the right direction and show me what I need to do.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 2:08:27 PM
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Qtman
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I have been trying to get my mind wrapped aroun this post. I think I finally have it.
I think the scripture you referred to in 1st Timothy is in regards to the church leaders. i.e. deacons, elders, pastors
I think God calls all of us into different things. My calling is and was music and youth. I have pursued that calling for 42 years. I do not believe every preacher even is called into the pastoral realm. Some preachers are just not cut out to be pastors.
I do however believe God can and does use them in other ways. Maybe the gentleman you referred to is called to preach/teach but not to pastor.
I also have no problem with one of the church members on necessary occasion standing in the pulpit reading scripture and making a talk or teaching if you will even if they don't meet the Biblical qualifications for a leader. They are not in a position to lead the church. They are simply standing in for a brief period and teaching. I hope this make sense. It did when I thought it through.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 2:51:58 PM
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gmc4Jesus
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I think there is some general misunderstanding of Scripture and some well-intentioned legalism being expressed. I'm not going to go into the Greek meanings of the New Testament words, but you can look it up if you desire.
If you check the book of Acts, Phillip had four daughters that prophesied. The difference between prophecying in the New Testament and preaching are almost immaterial. To preach means to proclaim. Prophesying is forth telling. When you tell people how to be saved so they can have a relationship with God and Jesus and go to Heaven, that is prophesying and preaching.
Regarding the situation that you listed at your church. We do have an obligation to not let just anyone fill the pulpit on a SONday morning. However, divorce is not the unforgivable sin. Many have been down that road, right or wrong. If they are sincere in their relationship with God and repetant of thier sin, is there any real reason why they could not preach?
Some of the best preachers today have been former drug addicts, alcoholics, felons, or even divorcees who have a message of God's grace, forgiveness, redemption, restoration and hope. Surely, if we will allow them to fill our pulpits, we are not going to disbar a man because he is divorced and remarried.
God is a God of grace, not legalism. Otherwise, I would be as dead and unqualified as anyone and everyone else. God takes imperfect people to proclaim the perfect person to imperfect people.
Since there is no explicit "office" of preacher in the New Testament, we are somewhat challenged to determine what qualifies one to preach. Using the qualifications for elder is a good place to start. However, most elders in churches today do not meet all of the requirements. Remeber that God does not call the qualified, but He always qualifies the called.
If the man is gifted with the ability to accurately proclaim the word of God and is not actively engaging in sinful behavior, then what reason do we have to not allow him to preach? Often times, a broken man can be a far more effective communicator of the grace of God than a polished, "unblemished" orator of the Gospel.
May God's love, grace and peace guide you to see where He is working and who He is working through for the glory of His Kingdom.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/7/2008 7:23:11 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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Eloquent post, GMC4Jesus. Very well thought out.
I still believe that the previous marraige has no bearing on the issue because that was before he was saved. Are not our sins washed away by the Blood of the Lamb, and we begin anew with a clean slate. Let me know if I am wrong about that... 
He is a new creation in Christ Jesus, and may truly be 'called' to preach, not in a pastoral position, but to minister to people who can relate to his past circumstances. His testimony alone can speaks volumes about God's awesome grace to others that may be finding themselves in the same position. His testimony can be one of encouragement to those who believe they have failed and cannot be made whole by the Lord.
Does that make sense..?
Are there others in the church that feel as you do? Are they given the privilage to speak..?
matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:09:49 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
What is your belief that the qualifications for a man to be able to preach?
My belief is that someone who has a true heart for the Lord can step in and preach. There are many people who have beautiful hearts for the Lord who do not have degrees that give them the title of pastor. I have a dear friend who knows the Bible very well, has an incredible relationship with the Lord, is filled with the Holy Spirit, and could easily (imo) step in and "preach" a sermon. He may not agree with me, he is pretty humble about it, but his ability to teach is amazing.
At my previous church (a small church), we had one of the senior men step in and preach once in a while when the pastor was unable to due to being out of town or ill. He also taught one of the Sunday school classes. He has a humble heart, knows his Bible well, prepared for the teaching (preaching), and imo did as good a job as the pastor.
As for Biblical "standards" as to who may or may not preach, offhand I do not know.
As for the debate about his divorce, you brought it up. If that wasn't an issue, you should not have brought it up. Personally, I have the impression that you are looking for a way to get him to not be able to preach at all. If you have an issue with it, you need to bring it to the Lord. I have belonged to two different churches over the years that have had senior pastors who were married, divorced, and remarried. I don't hold it against either of them, it's not my place to do so. They are both amazing preachers and I am blessed to have been under the tutelage of both of them.
quote:
I studied the Bible in great detail for a long time and I don't see where the Bible gives definite requirements for a man to be called a preacher or be allowed to preach.
Perhaps because God has left this open for good reason. There are many specific issues in life that are not directly and specifically addressed in detail in the Bible.
quote:
However, I believe that the requirements in I Timothy for a Bishop and for a Deacon applies to anyone who wants to preach or even claims to be called to preach.
Hmmm ... I would not agree with you here. We have a man who stands at the corner every lunch hour during the week and preaches. He does not have any kind of a degree. This is his ministry ... to preach the Word to the lost in a busy downtown location.
And, what about people who do missionary work? How many of them have degrees? Are you saying that none of them are qualified to preach the Word of the Lord to the lost?
Wow, you just want to endure when he speaks ... does he not have a heart for God? Does he not know the Bible? Is there an issue with his character? With his teaching? Or is it for the reason that he has remarried? Unfortunately, your comments do come across as judgmental, and it seems that you have a bone of contention against this man. It seems to me that there would be better reasons to want to find another church.
quote:
I believe what I believe and don't imagine that anyone would be able to change my mind
I'm not sure why you are bothering to ask if your mind is closed to changing ... it appears that you are simply looking for validation to back up your prejudice towards this man. That's too bad. You may be losing out on some valuable teaching by keeping your mind closed.
quote:
if a Pastor is all of those things, shouldn't anyone who gets behind the pulpit also be required to meet these standards in I Timothy, chapter 3?
No. You are expecting someone who is helping out to have the same qualifications and meet the same requirements as the person who holds the position as their life calling. If a secretary helps her boss (an attorney) draft a document, does she need to have a law degree. The answer is no.
_____________________________
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:15:27 PM
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JCMK
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I have a couple of corrections to make and also will give a little more information.
First, the man said he was saved in a Baptist church when he was young. He started living with his second wife before he divorced his first wife. His second wife led him into the Charismatic belief after they got married. She said that she was "backslidden" when she got with him (I reckon!).
I believe that God forgives our sins - all of them except Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. But since a sinner couldn't preach to begin with, it tell me that there are additional and special qualifications for a Bishop and Deacon that are required even though the person is saved. Nowadays, we don't use the title of Bishop in our churches, so we believe that Bishop can be interchanged for the title of Pastor, Evangelist, Teacher, Preacher. My reference Bible also states that the title of Bishop can be also be described as Elder, Servant, Steward, and Overseer.
I believe that since the requirements for a Bishop, ie. Pastor, are so strict, those same requirements should be for any man who gets behind the pulpit in a preacher/teacher/speaker mode.
Most Pastors are Preachers and/or Evangelists first. Would God allow men who do not meet the requirements of a Pastor to be a Preacher or Evangelist? Doesn't make sense to me.
When I started the OP, I didn't really want to state my belief because I wanted to hear the beliefs of others. But now you know.
To answer a couple of questions posted above: One Deacon believes that this man should not be allowed behind the pulpit; another Deacon is related to him and therefore just shrugs it off. The pastor obviously feels okay to let the man behind the pulpit. Half of the congregation has left because of this man. Women have no say-so. The church is not controlled by any organization and is under no authority.
I haven't decided what I am going to do. Half the time I think that I should stay and not let the devil win. The other half of the time I feel like I should just move on and find another church.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:32:06 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
a broken man can be a far more effective communicator of the grace of God than a polished, "unblemished" orator of the Gospel
I agree with this 100%. Our church's youth pastor, if you heard what he's been through and done in his life, would leave you crying uncontrollably. He has lived through some heartwrenching experiences, but has been washed clean by the Blood of Jesus. I seriously doubt there could be a better youth pastor for our church. He has been there and he knows how to reach kids in this day and age far better than 99% of the parents of these teen and preteen children. I thank God for him. He was prepared to be in the position God has called him to.
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:32:29 PM
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JCMK
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Having a "degree" has nothing to do with being called to Preach. God calls men to preach, not a University or Seminar.
No, the man is not called to preach (except maybe by his mother-in-law). He is not anointed and does not know the Bible well. He has an attitude of "preaching to the choir" so to speak. In other words, he is almost hateful in telling us - who have been saved many years longer than he has - what the truth is as if we were ignorant and unlearned. I believe that he does this because he came out of another denomination and was persuaded to believe differently, so he now tries to convince everybody that our belief is right, but we already know that. His "sermons" are more like lectures to unbelievers.
There are more than one qualification to preach. Being the husband of one wife is only one of them. If you start discussing that one point, this OP will be closed and we will be referred to the Divorced/Remarried OP - which is something that I really want to avoid.
I'm not asking if he can preach because of that reason. I was asking what the qualifications are for ANY man to preach.
There is a member on here that has only been married once, but he had a daughter who got pregnant while she still lived at home. He felt like his house was not in order and he stepped down for a couple of years until he got things straightened out. But he was a Pastor, and my question is about "Preachers". (Men who step in for a Pastor when needed).
Here's one more example: The pastor was sick a few months ago and one of the Deacons spoke a couple of services. He is not called to Preach. According to the requirements for a Deacon, he is qualified to step in when necessary.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:37:58 PM
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Focusing
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quote:
I haven't decided what I am going to do. Half the time I think that I should stay and not let the devil win. The other half of the time I feel like I should just move on and find another church.
Would the devil be winning if you stay?
I ask because this issue is clearly distracting you from the teaching. If you are distracted, you are not paying attention, you are not learning, you are not growing, and you have allowed this man to come between you and God.
How does that benefit your relationship with God?
quote:
who have been saved many years longer than he has
Just a quick comment here ... how long one is saved has nothing to do with the maturity of their walk with the Lord.
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There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:39:07 PM
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PastorPatricia
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But since a sinner couldn't preach to begin with,
Taking this statement at face value then no one should preach since we are all sinners saved by grace. I belief preaching is a gift. A preacher should be a praying, spirit filled Christian who studies the scriptures, education certainly helps. I've known a lot of men and women who are ordinated but were poor preachers, I've known a lot who are wonderful preachers and a lot of laypersons who are wonderful preachers. Just for the record I'm not interested in debating women in the pupit.
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 6:53:21 PM
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Focusing
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JCMK, I just read some of your other postings. It seems you are still having some difficulties regarding your own divorce. I am so sorry. My divorce was very different than yours in every way. My ex has now passed away. But I have peace about it.
I'm wondering if perhaps you are feeling bitterness towards this pastor due to your own circumstances? The roots of bitterness can go very deep, and they are so tough to work through. I attended a women's seminar not too long ago, and this topic was discussed. If I find them (I was planning to look for them anyway for another friend), would you welcome my notes via PM? They were very useful in my life.
I will be praying for you.
_____________________________
There is an appointed time for everything. And there is a time for every event under heaven
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 7:03:27 PM
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ironsharpensiron
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quote:
Hi Matthew, I know a man that lost his right hand to a meat saw that he wasn't supposed to use before he was saved. If all consequences are removed when we are saved, why does that man still have no right hand?
Maybe it offended the Lord so much He chose not have it grow back... 
I never said there were never any consequences, that is your reading between the lines, my friend. Looking at Paul the Apostle he was still held accountable for the persecution of the early Christians. He 'counted it all joy' right..? And King David, losing his son to Bathsheba for that little trist...There is accountability; a man who commits murder before he came to know Christ, he is still held accountable for that crime after salvation here in this life yet he is set free from that sin through Jesus in his spiritual and soon to be eternal life.
1 John 1:7; But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the Blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
1 John 1:9; If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Don't know about you, but it doesn't say 'some sins' or 'a few sins' or even just 'certain sins,' no, it says 'all sins.'
If people were held back because of their sinful past (pre-forgiveness) than the church as a whole would have no one behind the pulpit or in the pews for that matter...
matthew
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"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: What are the qualifications to be a Preacher? - 8/8/2008 7:40:04 PM
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