HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (Full Version)

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freakofnature -> HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/1/2008 4:34:14 PM)

In what may just be a shrewd attempt at point to democrats and their lack of interest in doing anyting... about energy. House republicans continued on with debate even after Pelosi and other democrats turned off the microphones, the lights and left the floor of the house today.

Apparently ready to start their recess, (yes, kids, you can go play now) leaving the democrat aides to a furor over "the GOP stunt!" Read more
HERE

From The Crypt at The Politico.com:

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the Democrats adjourned the House and turned off the lights and killed the microphones, but Republicans are still on the floor talking gas prices.

Minority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) and other GOP leaders opposed the motion to adjourn the House, arguing that Pelosi's refusal to schedule a vote allowing offshore drilling is hurting the American economy. They have refused to leave the floor after the adjournment motion passed at 11:23 a.m., and they are busy bashing Pelosi and her fellow Democrats for leaving town for the August recess.

At one point, the lights went off in the House and the microphones were turned off in the chamber, meaning Republicans were talking in the dark. But as Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz..) was speaking, the lights went back on and the microphones were turned on shortly afterward.



HighPlainsDrifter -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/1/2008 5:27:17 PM)

Finally, the GOP shows a bit of spine.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/1/2008 7:12:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

Finally, the GOP shows a bit of spine.


By standing in the dark, arguing for a plan that the Department of Energy concluded will have negligible effects on the price of oil? Sounds more like a bunch of grandstanding that's heavy on rhetoric, but light on facts.

-Dan.



HisFish -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/1/2008 8:27:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: HighPlainsDrifter

Finally, the GOP shows a bit of spine.


By standing in the dark, arguing for a plan that the Department of Energy concluded will have negligible effects on the price of oil? Sounds more like a bunch of grandstanding that's heavy on rhetoric, but light on facts.

-Dan.

Ya, your right, the "do nothing" policy is a much better plan. Quoting the dept. of energy is smart, there is nothing as intelligent and efficient as a government agency right? [;)]



colliefan -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/1/2008 8:56:13 PM)

Two things Bush didn't do when he was first elected president, clean house at both the State/Energy Departments.



Jhud -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 3:32:57 PM)

I am just happy to see there is still some testosterone left in the Republican leadership.



colliefan -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 3:50:13 PM)

Today's drive-by article made no mention that is was Madame Pelosi was the one who turned off the camera/mikes/lights. The RNC needs to use this as an example of the dems wanting the poor to have high gas prices. Also, use the example she wasn't happy with the plane the government gave her, but wanted on the size of Air Force One.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 6:25:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

The RNC needs to use this as an example of the dems wanting the poor to have high gas prices.


So the RNC should lie?

-Dan.



colliefan -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 7:02:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
The RNC needs to use this as an example of the dems wanting the poor to have high gas prices.


So the RNC should lie?

-Dan.


Then, why did the "Queen Bee" shut down the debate? Why don't the dems want to go on record about domestic drilling?



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 7:22:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar
quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan
The RNC needs to use this as an example of the dems wanting the poor to have high gas prices.


So the RNC should lie?

-Dan.


Then, why did the "Queen Bee" shut down the debate? Why don't the dems want to go on record about domestic drilling?


Unless I'm missing something, the dems have been pretty clear about their position: the potential for damage done by drilling exceeds the benefits (a position held until recently by many republicans, including W and Jeb Bush); we're better off pushing harder for efficiency and alternative energy sources than getting distracted by more drilling. You could just as easily say that the Republicans want the poor to have high gas prices, because they keep promoting the notion that drilling off our shores and in ANWAR is going to make a big dent in the price of oil, when it won't. You could then flip that into an argument about how the Republicans are in the pockets of big oil. Prior to this, I wouldn't have believed the "back pocket" argument myself, but seeing how the R's are handling this, I'm starting to reconsider.

As to why they shut down the debate - as I understand it, the house voted to recess, so the place was closing up shop anyways. There's politiking going on on both sides.

Aside from personal efficiency measures (tires, driving habits, carpooling, etc), there is no quick fix for this. Focusing on more drilling is only delaying the inevitable - if it delays it at all.

-Dan.



OneJohn410 -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 7:46:51 PM)

All this really makes me want to power up the VCR and record some C-Span. Oh, the high drama on the last day before a well-earned huge vacation! Maybe congressional folk will get back home, mingle with their constituents, and learn some things about how the Does, the Joneses, and the Publics are doing. There's got to be a realization that government is more than it brayed, it trumpeted, it sat on the fence between them unimpressed, it patted and comforted the wildlife, etc., and nothing sounded reasonable, what a great day, let's do it again tomorrow. Same old same old is not the answer.

OneJohn410



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 9:36:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

Unless I'm missing something, the dems have been pretty clear about their position: the potential for damage done by drilling exceeds the benefits (a position held until recently by many republicans, including W and Jeb Bush); we're better off pushing harder for efficiency and alternative energy sources than getting distracted by more drilling. You could just as easily say that the Republicans want the poor to have high gas prices, because they keep promoting the notion that drilling off our shores and in ANWAR is going to make a big dent in the price of oil, when it won't. You could then flip that into an argument about how the Republicans are in the pockets of big oil. Prior to this, I wouldn't have believed the "back pocket" argument myself, but seeing how the R's are handling this, I'm starting to reconsider.

As to why they shut down the debate - as I understand it, the house voted to recess, so the place was closing up shop anyways. There's politiking going on on both sides.

Aside from personal efficiency measures (tires, driving habits, carpooling, etc), there is no quick fix for this. Focusing on more drilling is only delaying the inevitable - if it delays it at all.

-Dan.

So we are to do nothng except continue to pay the high oil prices until alternative fuel sources and everything that will be associated and needed for it are perfected and then pay high prices for the oil and the alternative fuel so that those providing alternative fuel sources could realize some kind of profit as we all go through the process of changing over to the new fuel. Am I understanding you correctly?



HisFish -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 9:40:23 PM)

quote:

the dems have been pretty clear about their position

An oxymoronic statement. democratic policy is to never make a statement today that you can be tied to tomorrow [:D]



colliefan -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 10:33:02 PM)

The "global warming" crisis is about as the "global freezing" crisis that existed thirty some years ago, The funkoofs of the "Peak Oil Production thirty years ago were predicting that we would be out of oil in ten years. How can these "brilliant" scientists be so wrong thirty years ago and so spot on today.

Thirty two years ago the peanut farmer created the Department of Education as a pay-back to NEA. That combined with the socialist eduction provided by the schools of lower learning have created a bunch of anti-capitalist robots who can do little more than spout the greenies theme.

We have the oil that we need and we need to go full-throtle ahead to drill for it in an eniviromentally method as possible. We need to encourage the private sector to develop alternative forms of energy. We need to insist that the search for alternative fuel doesn't hinder the supply of food, both locally and internationally.

The greenies seem to want everyone to return to the livestyle that existed before the industrial revolution and foresake the benefits it has given us.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 10:59:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3

So we are to do nothng except continue to pay the high oil prices until alternative fuel sources and everything that will be associated and needed for it are perfected and then pay high prices for the oil and the alternative fuel so that those providing alternative fuel sources could realize some kind of profit as we all go through the process of changing over to the new fuel. Am I understanding you correctly?


Pretty much.

The Republican proposal seems to be the exact same thing except worse - misguided beliefs about the effectiveness of increased American drilling along with less effort put towards efficiency and alternative fuels.

-Dan.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 11:00:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

We have the oil that we need


Where? Oil shale that nobody can efficiently process yet w/o strip mining?

-Dan.



colliefan -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/2/2008 11:06:40 PM)

quote:

Where?


ANWAR, North Dakota, Outer Contential Shelf. Colorado (we can figure a way to mine safely) ,, expand the Gulf regions, etc, and send the greenies to the Artic Circle.



blessedinnyc -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 12:05:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

Where?


ANWAR, North Dakota, Outer Contential Shelf. Colorado (we can figure a way to mine safely) ,, expand the Gulf regions, etc, and send the greenies to the Artic Circle.

This might provide 2 years worth of oil, aside from Colorado.

I have an idea: let's go for shale mining after we finally clean up the mess we made from shale back in the '80s.



todd_t -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 12:44:38 AM)

Recently, I read a report of vast oil and gas deposits thought to exist under the Arctic Circle in terms of billions of barrels.

That's the good news.

The bad news is that the same report claimed at current levels of global consumption (which will just continue to rise), were that crude out of the ground and in refineries today it would be exhausted in three years.

Here's the lesson: we're running out of oil, so we'd better start working on a replacement source soon instead of hoping to scour the earth looking for that last oil deposit.



HisFish -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 2:51:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

Where?


ANWAR, North Dakota, Outer Contential Shelf. Colorado (we can figure a way to mine safely) ,, expand the Gulf regions, etc, and send the greenies to the Artic Circle.

This might provide 2 years worth of oil, aside from Colorado.

I have an idea: let's go for shale mining after we finally clean up the mess we made from shale back in the '80s.

I live in colorado, where is this mess, we dont see it?



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 6:12:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Colorado (we can figure a way to mine safely)


You're right, we probably can - but not for several years (in which time we can probably come up with a better alternative). Shell is working on a plan to use buried heaters to boil the oil out of the rock and contain it with a layer of frozen ground cooled by ammonia - it takes a massive amount of energy (> 1/3 of the total energy output of the oil) and they won't know until 2015 whether it'll even work. Somebody else is trying something similar w/ underground microwave generator. AFAIK, they just started on that one, so I don't know when that'll be viable.

-Dan.



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 4:30:03 PM)

Then this arguement is totally illogical.

What are we average folks to do in the mean time while we sit around and do NOTHING to meet our energy needs NOW?

Just because anything we do is going to take time to produce results doesn't mean we should sit around and do absolutely nothing.

What Republicans are urging increased drilling and decreased efforte to exploit alternative fuels?

Just about everyone I have heard that is for increased drilling, is ALSO for increased research into alternative fuel.

The most commomn belief I have heard going on, andthat makes the most sense is that this country needs to launch a program every bit as focused and energetic as our space program once was. We need to be energy self-sufficient in any ecologically way possible, as soon as possible, because right now we seem to be financing the very people that wish to do us arm any way they can.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 5:54:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leon_Figg3
What are we average folks to do in the mean time while we sit around and do NOTHING to meet our energy needs NOW?


Figure out ways to structure your life so that you can minimize your energy expenses. Beyond that, try to support politicians who don't just take platforms that are the easiest and most simple to explain to people. Our problems are complex, and the simplistic sound-bite solutions many politicians try to sell us do not work. They only serve to obfuscate the issues and, of they're lucky, get themselves re-elected.


The issue isn't really what we can do to fix right now - we can't do anything. For the short term, we're screwed. We should have been working on this for the last 20 years. But some in the Democratic party overstated their info about global warming, Republicans overreacted the other way and rejected most/all of the climate science outright, and with no immediate economic impetus to do anything, nothing happened.

The issue is really what we do about the future.

quote:


What Republicans are urging increased drilling and decreased efforte to exploit alternative fuels?


In words only - none that I am aware of. However, I am highly skeptical that those who put drilling as their top priority would also direct sufficient (or even equivalent) attention and resources towards alternative fuels.

-Dan.



earthless -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 6:05:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

The issue isn't really what we can do to fix right now - we can't do anything. For the short term, we're screwed. We should have been working on this for the last 20 years. But some in the Democratic party overstated their info about global warming, Republicans overreacted the other way and rejected most/all of the climate science outright, and with no immediate economic impetus to do anything, nothing happened.

The issue is really what we do about the future.



Imagine if Bill Clinton had signed that bill in 1995 that he refused to? We would have been seeing the goods of that already, a few years ago even.



iluvatar -> RE: HOUSE DEMS- "BOOM BOOM OUT GO THE LIGHTS" (8/3/2008 6:27:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

The issue isn't really what we can do to fix right now - we can't do anything. For the short term, we're screwed. We should have been working on this for the last 20 years. But some in the Democratic party overstated their info about global warming, Republicans overreacted the other way and rejected most/all of the climate science outright, and with no immediate economic impetus to do anything, nothing happened.

The issue is really what we do about the future.



Imagine if Bill Clinton had signed that bill in 1995 that he refused to? We would have been seeing the goods of that already, a few years ago even.


Which bill was that? To drill in ANWAR? Ok, say he had. What effect would it have on oil prices?

-Dan.



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