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Terms of Office for Pastors? - 7/29/2008 3:42:28 PM
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drfuss
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Over the years, I have attended churches where the pastors were at the church for a specific period of time and others where the pastor's term was indefinite.
In my younger years, my family attended a church where the pastor was moved by the denomination about every three years (sooner if the church complained). In another church, the pastor was voted on every three years requiring a two thirds vote of confidence for him to stay. In other chrrches the pastor was elected for an indefinite period of time and only moved on when the pastor was called to move on or conditions made it in his best intereswt to move on.
Is it good for a church for their pastor to move on every few years or be voted on every few years?
What do you think?
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 7/29/2008 3:55:32 PM
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rcjames
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I think if the Pastor is doing a good job according to Scriptue he should be allowed to continue if the Pastor and the congregation agree.
Any reasoning I have ever head to justify limits other than poor performance just falls short on Scripture support.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 7/29/2008 4:02:51 PM
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buckifn
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I think it depends on the church bylaws first and I also think his/her contract should include a yearly review by the Board of Elders, and if necessary, a vote by the congregation.
I have been in a church where the same pastor was voted to stay for 14 plus years and also in a church where the pastor was asked to resign after one 3 yr. term. The way things are looking right now our current pastor is going to be short term, but I don't think there is one right answer for every church.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 7/29/2008 4:18:11 PM
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Lapidoth
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I would have to agree with RC.
A "contract"? Well, I guess since many churches
have turned into businesses, then that fits the mode.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 7/29/2008 5:52:13 PM
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drfuss
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drfuss: I think it depends on both the church and the pastor. In one church we were in years ago, the pastor came with the intention of changing the vote before his three years were up. The pastor was clearly told about the three year vote and handed a copy of the church constitution and bylaws before he came to candidate (I was at the meeting).
About six months before the three year vote, he claimed to the members that he was never told about the vote implying he was deceived by the church board. This caused a big division in the church and he left before it was time for the vote. In my opinion, he would have been re-elected had he not tried to change the constitution.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/4/2008 12:32:07 PM
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davemiller7
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The United Methodist Church shuffles its pastors around every few years, most typically 4-6 years. I can see both sides of the issue, but I tend to like allowing them to stay at one church is better.
-Dave
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/4/2008 12:37:33 PM
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Grace-N-Mercy
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
I think if the Pastor is doing a good job according to Scriptue he should be allowed to continue if the Pastor and the congregation agree.
Any reasoning I have ever head to justify limits other than poor performance just falls short on Scripture support.
Thsnks
RC
I agree. If a pastor is doing a good job and people are getting saved, why should he have to leave? I'm very glad we don't have this in my church... the pastor has been here for a long time and the church continues to grow and people come to the Lord daily. People are growing in their walk with Christ.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/4/2008 1:33:39 PM
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Consecrated2God
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In all of my years, I have never been a member of a church during a change of pastors. The pastor of the church I was born into was there for many years and his son is now the pastor. The pastor of the church I was born into started the church and is still there, nearly three decades later. The church we attended for a couple of years while we married was there for several years, including the two years we were there, although I don't think that church exists anymore. The church we attended after that again was started by the present pastor. He's been there for nearly twenty years. The pastor of the church we attended while my husband was in school had been there for over twenty years, and he finally retired a couple of years after we left. So for me, the concept of a pastor leaving a church is foreign and strange. I don't see how anyone could really be effective in ministry if they were switched around all the time like that.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/4/2008 1:47:05 PM
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isaacsmom
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quote:
Is it good for a church for their pastor to move on every few years or be voted on every few years?
What do you think?
I think it's best for the congregation and pastor to pray and listen to the Holy Spirit in terms of direction and leadership for the body. Not to think in terms of any certain lengths of time.
_____________________________
<<< My littlest punkin'
*~*~*Rachel*~*~*
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Beware of posing as a profound person -- God became a baby. ~Oswald Chambers
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/4/2008 3:37:47 PM
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drfuss
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From the OP: "Is it good for a church for their pastor to move on every few years or be voted on every few years?
What do you think?"
drfuss: Though there can be some advantages to changing pastors, I agree that it is probably best for the church not to have a new pastor every few years.
Let's address the second part of the OP question. Should there be a vote of confidence on the pastor to continue every few years?
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 8:24:01 AM
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davemiller7
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Yes, there should be a vote of confidence on the pastor, at least every two years. This will help keep pastors from going off course and staying there, or becoming a tyrant, etc. without any recourse. But any votes to remove, change, or censure a pastor needs to be done with the approval of the district supervisor, if applicable.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
From the OP: "Is it good for a church for their pastor to move on every few years or be voted on every few years?
What do you think?"
drfuss: Though there can be some advantages to changing pastors, I agree that it is probably best for the church not to have a new pastor every few years.
Let's address the second part of the OP question. Should there be a vote of confidence on the pastor to continue every few years?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 8:27:17 AM
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Consecrated2God
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Could you imagine if the children of Israel had a vote of confidence on Moses every two years?
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 9:04:52 AM
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davemiller7
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But there is a big difference between today's pastors and Moses. Hopefully, pastors do feel the call to become pastors, and most turn out to be good pastors, some even great ones. Moses, on the other hand, received a direct command from God to lead His children. That command was not something Moses could have ignored or waffled with (although he did try to get out of it).
Also, the children of Israel did have a sort of vote of confidence in Moses. Remember that they decided to try to do things their own way, getting Aaron to create an idol for them, etc.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Could you imagine if the children of Israel had a vote of confidence on Moses every two years?
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 10:53:37 AM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
But there is a big difference between today's pastors and Moses. Hopefully, pastors do feel the call to become pastors, and most turn out to be good pastors, some even great ones. Moses, on the other hand, received a direct command from God to lead His children. That command was not something Moses could have ignored or waffled with (although he did try to get out of it).
Also, the children of Israel did have a sort of vote of confidence in Moses. Remember that they decided to try to do things their own way, getting Aaron to create an idol for them, etc.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Could you imagine if the children of Israel had a vote of confidence on Moses every two years?
drfuss: I agree that a comparison between Moses and Pastors is not valid. In addition to the above, God performed many miracles in support of Moses' leadership, such as parting the Red Sea, ten plagues in Egypt, and Manna in the wilderness. If God performed similiar undisputed physical mircles in support of a Pastor's leadership, then there would be no need for a vote on that pastor.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 10:56:57 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
drfuss: I agree that a comparison between Moses and Pastors is not valid. In addition to the above, God performed many miracles in support of Moses' leadership, such as parting the Red Sea, ten plagues in Egypt, and Manna in the wilderness. If God performed similiar undisputed physical mircles in support of a Pastor's leadership, then there would be no need for a vote on that pastor.
Maybe, maybe not. One name comes to mind: Benny Hinn... (and there are others).
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 1:06:44 PM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
drfuss: I agree that a comparison between Moses and Pastors is not valid. In addition to the above, God performed many miracles in support of Moses' leadership, such as parting the Red Sea, ten plagues in Egypt, and Manna in the wilderness. If God performed similiar undisputed physical mircles in support of a Pastor's leadership, then there would be no need for a vote on that pastor.
Maybe, maybe not. One name comes to mind: Benny Hinn... (and there are others).
drfuss: I have no personal experience with Benny Hinn or others like him. However, the news media (which can be bias) has disputed many of the Benny Hinn claimed miracles based on interviews afterwards. Non-visable healings can be disputed.
I was referring to physical undisputed miracles similiar to what God performed in support of Moses' leadership.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 2:06:03 PM
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Consecrated2God
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Does anyone know of any biblical examples, Old or New Testament, of a congregation voting for or against their leader?
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 2:27:57 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Could you imagine if the children of Israel had a vote of confidence on Moses every two years?
Wow, what a thought; there whould have been many times that the vote would have been negative.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 2:48:13 PM
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Qtman
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Once again I agree with Rcjames. I was raised in a methodist church by a Methodist pastor. The longest he stayed at one church was six years. My brother on the other hand was at the same Methodist Church for over 17 years. He was a pastor in the Methodist church and only had four churches in 35 years.
I think a pastoral committee of some sorts should review the situation every year. If the Pastor wants to stay and the church wants him to stay he should stay. I think some of these things were put into place to keep one person from have a "Choke Hold' on the church.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 4:03:02 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
drfuss: I agree that a comparison between Moses and Pastors is not valid. In addition to the above, God performed many miracles in support of Moses' leadership, such as parting the Red Sea, ten plagues in Egypt, and Manna in the wilderness. If God performed similiar undisputed physical mircles in support of a Pastor's leadership, then there would be no need for a vote on that pastor.
Maybe, maybe not. One name comes to mind: Benny Hinn... (and there are others).
drfuss: I have no personal experience with Benny Hinn or others like him. However, the news media (which can be bias) has disputed many of the Benny Hinn claimed miracles based on interviews afterwards. Non-visable healings can be disputed.
I was referring to physical undisputed miracles similiar to what God performed in support of Moses' leadership.
Many of Moses miracles were faked by the pharoah's magicians and people like Benny Hinn are trusted by hordes of folk that put no stock in the news media. My point was that external manifestations alone are no proof a man is God's leader.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 4:03:41 PM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
Does anyone know of any biblical examples, Old or New Testament, of a congregation voting for or against their leader?
drfuss: I don't know of any; but I can't find any place where it says N.T. elders were appointed for life either. However, New Testatment churches were run by a group of Elders, unless there was an Apostle in the group who would be in charge. There was no senior Elder (pastor) that was in charge. The New Testatment does not say "obey him who has the rule over you", it is always "those". So a direct comparison with the New Testatment Church would not be applicable here.
See: Plurality of Elders
http:www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=414.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 4:06:35 PM
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JimboFletch
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Of course, the deacons were chosen by the congregation.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/5/2008 9:54:16 PM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Of course, the deacons were chosen by the congregation.
drfuss: We are talking about pastors (elders), not sure what deacons have to do with this.
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/6/2008 7:38:28 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drfuss
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Of course, the deacons were chosen by the congregation.
drfuss: We are talking about pastors (elders), not sure what deacons have to do with this.
I guess there's no connection to the discussion if you don't consider deacons as leaders. The comment was in response to:
quote:
Does anyone know of any biblical examples, Old or New Testament, of a congregation voting for or against their leader?
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RE: Terms of Office for Pastors? - 8/6/2008 8:36:31 AM
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Consecrated2God
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The Bible says not to receive an accusation against an elder except by 2 or 3 witnesses. If there is substatial reason to remove a leader, there is a process for that. But a vote of confidence every two years turns the pastor into a politician--he's got to stay on everyone's good side or they're going to vote him back out. In a vote of confidence, the pastor might not have committed any sin or done anything worthy of removing him from office. People could vote against him because he preached too hard on sin, or they thought he was too young or too old. They might take a sermon personally and feel he was singling them out. They might not like his haircut or the version of the Bible he used. The power to oust a pastor based on non-biblical reasons should not be granted to those he is trying to lead.
_____________________________
<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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