RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat- Richard Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 4:12:20 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Well, you know, I never heard of you or Pastor Silva before I read this thread. Isn't THAT interesting? And I am capable of reading both sides and finding my own info and making up my own mind.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:13:28 PM
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prophet
Posts: 566
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It seems that the article was a 2005 article.
Why complain only in 2008??? 
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:25:00 PM
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rabanes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Well, you know, I never heard of you or Pastor Silva before I read this thread. Isn't THAT interesting? And I am capable of reading both sides and finding my own info and making up my own mind.
That really wasn't an answer.
RA
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:30:09 PM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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Well, you know, it is. Maybe not the one you wanted. Personally, I think Pastor Silva has every right to make as much noise as he wants whether or not you like it. Did you speak to him, as God's word entreats us to before you went 'legal'? If not, sit back and enjoy the ride, 'cause you saddled up the horse.
Into the sunset.....................
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:31:42 PM
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rabanes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prophet
It seems that the article was a 2005 article.
Why complain only in 2008???
That answer was posted by me IN THIS THREAD, in my Tuesday, July 29, 2008 at 10:48 AM on page 1. Please follow link and read the answer I provided. Here is what one reader stated after looking at my reasons:
"The points that you listed for why you chose to contact the ISP and requested the article be removed made sense to me. The hiatus from doing things online, the fact that you are getting more widespread publicity and things like this could defame you, and the fact that he did not tackle any theology or doctrine head-on are all reasonable, rational explanations for your actions (I heard you on the Gino Gerasi show in Denver the other day, BTW.) With this good explanation of things and my examination of the article, I agree that you were in the right. Even though I believe you are wrong on things like supporting Rick Warren, and perhaps a large number of other areas, I have to say that you did a good job, sir. God Bless."
I hope this helps.
RAbanes
Pop Culture Mix WEBSITE
Pop Culture Mix BLOG
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:35:07 PM
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solarflare
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Well, we're just taking sides, seems like, and I guess you know which way
I'm driftin', bro. I also garnered that you have been busy removing other people's youtubes videos as well, claiming much the same as you did with Pastor Silva. Granted, they were not Christians, so I guess that's OK? What's the problem? Don't you know we are supposed to be hated by the world? I don't agree with what you did. So shut me down.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:36:44 PM
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rabanes
Posts: 29
Joined: 8/2/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
Well, you know, it is. Maybe not the one you wanted. Personally, I think Pastor Silva has every right to make as much noise as he wants whether or not you like it. Did you speak to him, as God's word entreats us to before you went 'legal'? If not, sit back and enjoy the ride, 'cause you saddled up the horse.
Into the sunset.....................
quote:
Did you speak to him, as God's word entreats us to before you went 'legal'? If not, sit back and enjoy the ride, 'cause you saddled up the horse.
Actually, God's Word -- specifically 1 Cor 6 and Matt. 18 -- do not apply to this situation. I suggest you read my Bible study notes and also supportive quotes from commentaries and other discernment ministries that show we are not dealing with anything covered by these passages.
And if I was wrong by NOT going to Silva personally first, then am I to assume that you're saying Silva was just as wrong for running to the church/world and exposing the issue for all to see before taking appropriate steps per Matthew 19 as well? I kept it private! Silva let everyone in on it when it was no one else's business. We seem to be knee-deep in double standards.
R. Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:41:54 PM
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jayvance
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
Too bad the interview was not really all that accurate, but only more of the same smokescreen and false cries of persecution. Here's an interesting take on it from someone I don't even know.
The Richard Abanes Ken Silva Fiasco - THEOLOGY TODAY. As it so succinctly puts it:
quote:
"Richard Abanes went to an ISP . . . . Ken Silva went to the entire world. Brethren. Doesn’t this bother any of you in the least? It bothers me greatly because I’m seeing a double standard here. Is it really ok for those who desire to hold Abanes to Scripture but look the other way when Silva goes one step further and notifies possibly the entire world that he was “wronged”? There are some within the blogosphere who are asking Abanes to go and reconcile with his brother…entirely Scriptural….but why aren’t these same people asking Silva to do the same? Didn’t Silva violate Scripture also Brethren? Why shouldn’t Silva be held to the same standard…..in fact as a “pastor” shouldn’t Silva be held to a HIGHER standard (1 Timothy 3)?"
I've been asking these same questions since the whole thing started, which by the way, would never have been such a mess were it not for Silva announcing it to the world. Interesting, no?
RAbanes
Richard, here's my opinion, for whatever it's worth. I definitely think Silva was wrong to make this issue public, and I also think he overreacted. But I think you were unwise to make an issue of it in the first place, and I'll tell you why.
First of all, if what Silva did amounts to "false cries of persecution," to a disinterested party such as myself your complaining to the ISP about his "personal attacks" pretty much falls in the same category. I grant that you didn't go public with your complaint like he did, and I give you props for that. But honesly, what he said about you in his column amounts to a tempest in a teapot, in my humble opinion. It wasn't flattering to you, obviously, but it wasn't all that terrible either. I realize you probably couldn't foresee how Silva would react when you contacted his ISP, but by doing so you actually gave him the wood and the matches to start this particular "I'm being persecuted" fire. If in fact you were concerned about your reputation, as you stated in your letter to the ISP, reputation-wise you're probably worse off now than you would have been if you would have simply ignored his comments about you on his blog. Certainly a whole lot more people have been exposed to his negative portrayal of you than would have been the case if you would have ignored him. Just out of curiosity, why should you care what he says anyway? Is there some personal animosity or some other history between the two of you?
As far as the verbiage you used in your letter to the ISP, in my opinion you'd be wise to simply man up and admit that a reasonable person would easily infer from your letter that legal action was being considered. Regardless whether or not it legal action would be the Christian thing to do in this case, the problem is that your explanation of why you used the language and what you did or didn't mean to infer just smacks of hair-splitting, to be perfectly honest. Almost Clintonian, really--"depends on what your definition of 'is' is." A reasonable person would infer that you were considering legal action, plain and simple. Just admitting that would cast you in a better light than all the logical contortions you've gone through, in my opinion.
Anyway, I'm perfectly aware that you don't know me from Adam and there's no reason my opinion should carry any weight with you or anyone else. But I wanted to give you my objective take on this issue, since I don't know much about either you or Silva and don't have an ax to grind with either one of you. But frankly, this whole situation does nothing to advance the cause of glorifying Christ in the earth, regardless of who's more to blame. As a wise person once told me, it doesn't matter who causes the car wreck if you end up dead. When Jesus gets a black eye from these kinds of internicine squabbles, it doesn't really matter who started it, the end result is the same.
Jay
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 8:56:05 PM
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rabanes
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Jay: But honestly, what he said about you in his column amounts to a tempest in a teapot, in my humble opinion.
RA: Hello, Jay. I very much appreciated your post. Let me simply say that from my perspective this actually about FAR more than just me and Ken Silva. This is one reason I have been talking about it online so much.
The situation has much more to do with accountability, responsibility, the proper mode of apologetics/discernment, our conduct as Christians, what it means to strike our hand to an agreement (e.g., a TOS agreement), needless division in the Body of Christ. These issues are huge. And that is what I am trying to also call attention to. The violent responses -- which have been filled with hypocrisies, double-standards, concealing of facts, violations of federal laws, attempts at intimidation, Christians using profanity against me (I kid you not) -- is telling me that the Body of Christ is very, very ill (see my OPEN LETTER for documentation).
Too many so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs) have been allowed to run rampant -- attacking whom they wish, dividing the church, falsely accusing the brethren (including those in the Merging Church), spreading gossip/rumors, hurting those who are trusting them, etc. etc. etc. And they have remained accountable to NO ONE.
This, I believe, is the reason why so many of them responded with such hatred and anger. They are in a panic because this puts them on notice. They must be more careful about what they say, or else risk a complaint about one of their articles. Everyone is so upset, I believe, because this threatens their ability to say/do whatever they want to say/do no matter how hateful or hurtful it might be to others and to the Body of Christ. And many of them are now trying to hide by abusing passages like 1 Corinthians 6 and Matthew 18, which in this instance do not apply. God is not pleased when his holy Word is abused.
The time has come for these people to be held accountable and responsible for the unnecessary, unbiblical,and ungodly division in the Body of Christ that they have been causing. My email to Ken Silva's ISP was as attempt to help bring about at least a modicum of accountability/responsibility. You see the reaction. It tells me quite a lot about what has been going on in the church.
As for me "manning up" about the contents of that letter, I have explained my thoughts, intentions, and motives and reasons why I had not thought too intensely about that boiler plate template I used, which I had downloaded years ago from the Internet and had used previously with NO problems, as it was crafted professionally for use online (see my OPEN LETTER for more details).
RAbanes
Pop Culture Mix - WEBSITE
Pop Culture Mix - BLOG
< Message edited by rabanes -- 8/5/2008 8:11:24 AM >
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 10:34:09 PM
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mushhead
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From: Kearns
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RAbanes,
I have never heard of you before reading this thread, which probably says something about how isolated I've been the last few years. That said, I also want to add my two cents worth (my opinion probably isn't worth much more than that).
I too have had serious problems with Apprising Ministries. I read something on that site about a denominational leader in North Carolina (I think). Instead of taking Silva's word for it, I called the person. We had a long conversation, in which I asked many questions in order to discern whether the person was telling me the truth. I am reasonably certain that Silva (if he is the one that wrote the article) "made up" the charges out of whole cloth. Therefore, I don't blame you for being unhappy with Silva, nor do I doubt that he misrepresented you.
That said, I must agree with "jayvance" that your actions betray your true intentions for filing the complaint. Obviously, you intended for the article to be removed. As you were informed about the TOS of the host site, you certainly knew that if Silva refused, the site itself, might be taken down. Your comments about Discernment Ministries being, "in a panic because they have been put on notice," also reveals something about what I believe were your true motives. I cannot judge your heart, but it is difficult from your actions, and subsequent statements here, that you were seeking any other remedy than to silence your harshest critics.
Finally, I share in the concerns, voiced on this thread, about the message this sends. As you know, "Libel" is more than just a word for the adult world; it is a legal term. Therefore, it implies legal action. As a public figure, you also must be aware that it is virtually impossible for someone to be guilty of libeling a public figure. From what I read in the Silva piece, he did not come anywhere near libelling you. He may have misprepresented you, but he certainly did not libel you. Also, I have not read your link on privacy laws, but as I understand the law, unless a specific notification of privacy is posted, then you do not have any expectation that your emails will not be made public (I do not know if Apprising includes emails in any privacy statement the site might offer).
Finally, my question is, why bother. You say that discernment ministries are running amuck, but that is a matter of opinion. The operator's of those ministries might believe they are right. Certainly they have the right to voice their opinions. You and others might disagree with their portrayals of your ministries, but is silencing them really the best way to deal with that problem. I am reminded of those famous words from one of our nation's Founding Fathers, "I my not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." It seems you chose a different path.
Just my humble opinion.
< Message edited by mushhead -- 8/4/2008 11:09:04 PM >
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 10:51:42 PM
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prophet
Posts: 566
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
Too many so-called Online Discernment Ministries (ODMs) have been allowed to run rampant -- attacking whom they wish, dividing the church, falsely accusing the brethren (including those in the Merging Church), spreading gossip/rumors, hurting those who are trusting them, etc. etc. etc. And they have remained accountable to NO ONE.
Whos the emerging church accountable to?
God is not pleased when his holy Word is abused.
i hope this phrase applies to R Warrens writings as well! (How many translations did he use in PD?) 
The time has come for these people to be held accountable and responsible for the unnecessary, unbiblical,and ungodly division in the Body of Christ that they have been causing.
Likewise false teachers and prophets.....
RAbanes
Pop Culture Mix - WEBSITE
Pop Culture Mix - BLOG
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 10:53:58 PM
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jayvance
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quote:
The time has come for these people to be held accountable and responsible for the unnecessary, unbiblical,and ungodly division in the Body of Christ that they have been causing. My email to Ken Silva's ISP was as attempt to help bring about at least a modicum of accountability/responsibility. You see the reaction. It tells me quite a lot about what has been going on in the church.
To me this is the crux of the matter, no question. I have a different point of view than you do in regards to WHERE or FROM WHOM accountability should originate, however, as well as the most appropriate manner in which to respond to those with whom we strongly disagree and/or who have attacked us. The irony is that from where I sit Silva is using the exact same rationale for doing what he does as you are--to combat what he sees as grave error. So you both use the same justification and you both end up causing even MORE division and confusion, in my opinion, because you're focused on each other instead of on the REAL enemy who is sitting back and getting a big chuckle out of the whole mess, no doubt. And yet you both are esconced firmly in your belief that you're "doing God's work" by exposing error and holding people accountable. I'm not talking about what's in your hearts, what your motivations are, etc. I'm just looking at the end result--"Scoreboard," as they say in sports. Attacking others or RESPONDING to attacks BY others are equally futile pursuits, in my opinion, because the focus is not on Christ, no matter how we may try to couch our actions in pious terms. We become embroiled in warfare against flesh and blood when our focus ought to be on spiritual warfare.
(As an aside, those of us who use the Internet as a significant vehicle for getting our message across--which would include myself, you and Silva--can easily develop a skewed perspective on how important our words or the words of others really are in the "real world." The Internet isn't "real," but it's very easy to lose sight of that, in my experience. Yes, words matter, but when it comes to words on the Internet, they don't matter as much as we might think, quite frankly. So for you or Silva or me or anyone else to get hot and bothered about what other people are saying online is most likely much ado about nothing, in the vast majority of cases.)
Bottom line, combating error in the Church is ultimately the responsibility of the Head of the Church, and I suspect many of us have usurped His authority to a great degree in this particular arena. The best way to combat error is to present Christ and Him crucified in a straightforward and loving manner, and leave the business of "straightening out" the apostates to Jesus. Darkness cannot cohabit with light, plain and simple. The way to dispel darkness is not to rail against it, but rather to bring the light of truth into the room.
But enough on my soapbox. Again, I do not in any way intend any disrespect to you, Richard, simply expressing my opinion as honestly and objectively as I can, without rancor or judgment as to your heart or motives.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 11:00:21 PM
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prophet
Posts: 566
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jayvance
Attacking others or RESPONDING to attacks BY others are equally futile pursuits, in my opinion, because the focus is not on Christ, no matter how we may try to couch our actions in pious terms. We become embroiled in warfare against flesh and blood when our focus ought to be on spiritual warfare.
Amen!
Bottom line, combating error in the Church is ultimately the responsibility of the Head of the Church, and I suspect many of us have usurped His authority to a great degree in this particular arena.
The best way to combat error is to present Christ and Him crucified in a straightforward and loving manner, and leave the business of "straightening out" the apostates to Jesus. Darkness cannot cohabit with light, plain and simple. The way to dispel darkness is not to rail against it, but rather to bring the light of truth into the room.
i think the Head of the church has commanded manya times to discern and point out errors, and rebuke and correct, dont you?
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 11:00:53 PM
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solarflare
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Ditto Mushhead and Jayvance. I read the email you sent to the ISP - you also threatened them - not just Silva, with legal action. And now, you don't like the repercussions. Next time, try doing things in an honorable way. Christians are not supposed to turn to legal recourse as there first 'line of defense'. It does not look pretty trying to make everyone look at Silva now and say "Oh but look what he is doing."
Personally, I think you should stop, now......before you need professional damage control.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 11:15:13 PM
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rabanes
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MUSH: That said, I must agree with "jayvance" that your actions betray your true intentions for filing the complaint.
RA: Really?
1. My true "actions" = writing to an ISP to ask them to review a single article out of hundreds.
2. My "true intentions" -- IPOWER, please check out the article in question. I believe it violates your TOS agreement."
There. True actions recapped. And true intentions voiced again.
________________
MUSH: Obviously, you intended for the article to be removed.
RA: True. Where have I stated otherwise?
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MUSH: As you were informed about the TOS of the host site, you certainly knew that if Silva refused, the site itself, might be taken down.
RA: Really? And please do tell me how I "knew" Silva would respond so outrageously by definatly refusing to take down that one article -- and THAT is what led to his website being kicked. In all my years of experience, I have NEVER know anyone to react so irrationally. I have received such requests and complied. Others have received such requests and complied. I've sent this same form-letter, template complaint before -- and NO problems. But now suddenly we have Silva, who responds to the requst from his IPS as if they some Gestapo squad had tried to break his door down and take his computer.
And once more, I want to be clear, scripture his my guide in life. And NOTHING in the BIble prohibited my actions. This is NOT -- I repeat, NOT -- a Matthew 18 or 1 Corinthians 6 issue. Not even close.
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MUSH: I cannot judge your heart, but it is difficult from your actions, and subsequent statements here, that you were seeking any other remedy than to silence your harshest critics.
RA: ROFL. Did you know that Silva had up more than one article on his website that spoke about me negatively? I didn't agree with any of them. And do you know what else? I only complained about ONE of them. Clearly, I wasn't trying to "silence" anyone. This is the party line coming from those who want to be able to say anything and everything on the Internet with no accountability. Your assumption about my motives is wrong, as the evidence I cite shows. I had/have no desire at all for SIlva to be silenced. What was INDEED important to me was also showing how all of us, as Christians, cannot just claim our Christianity as a free pass to say.do whatevere we want, and hide behind variosu Bible passages as shields.
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MUSH: Attacking others or RESPONDING to attacks BY others are equally futile pursuits, in my opinion, because the focus is not on Christ,
RA: We are to stand against sin, and expose it. That is what I did. And in response, Silva committed more sins and broke the laws of the land by publishing my private email to IPOWER in violation of federal copyright/privacy laws. Light has shined in a very dark corner of "Christian" cyberspace. IMHO.
RAbanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 11:22:28 PM
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prophet
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Would be inetersting to understnd where in the article
http://www.apprising.org/archives/2005/09/a_pastors_asses.html.
constsitutes
“c. Utilize the Services in connection with any tortious or actionable activity. Without limiting the general application of this rule, Users and Users may not: i. Utilize the Services to publish or disseminate information that (A) constitutes slander, libel or defamation. . . .”
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 11:40:46 PM
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jayvance
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quote:
RA: We are to stand against sin, and expose it. That is what I did. And in response, Silva committed more sins and broke the laws of the land by publishing my private email to IPOWER in violation of federal copyright/privacy laws. Light has shined in a very dark corner of "Christian" cyberspace. IMHO.
quote:
I think the Head of the church has commanded many times to discern and point out errors, and rebuke and correct, don't you?
If you'll bear with me, I'd like to ask what New Testament passages we would use to justify the practice of "exposing sin," "point out errors...rebuke and correct" in the context of Internet blogs, etc. My one qualification would be that we can't use Scriptural instructions that were directed at members of a LOCAL ASSEMBLY to support attempting to exercise church discipline on those who are OUTSIDE our local Christian community.
I'd be sincerely interested in hearing responses from anyone who would care to comment.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:04:12 AM
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peacebringer
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Mr. Abanes,
Seems to me a lot of anger for something that really shouldn't have gone to this proportion. You ask for certain things from Mr. Silva but in your posts on website, I do see you engaging in a lot of attacking posts. I don't know how things got to this point, but this whole matter being something that is apparently over 3 years old. You are both in the wrong and forgiveness is needed. Forgiveness regardless of anyone else acting rightly. Here it or not. Both you and Pastor Silvia feel justified in your actions. Both show signs of anger.
I read the article, it just a lot of finger pointing and nothing really grievous in said article. All I know is this is grievous.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:13:14 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
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quote:
RA: We are to stand against sin, and expose it. That is what I did. And in response, Silva committed more sins
I just really can't believe I'm reading this. I'll start collecting the stones.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 12:53:16 AM
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peacebringer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solarflare
quote:
RA: We are to stand against sin, and expose it. That is what I did. And in response, Silva committed more sins
I just really can't believe I'm reading this. I'll start collecting the stones.
he misses the point. He who is without sin cast the first stone.
Forgiveness is important, and as we forgive, so shall we be forgiven.
_____________________________
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 8:15:07 AM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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If I did this to every single person that has and continues to speak evil about my character on the Internet... to every single person that has literally stated death threats against my family and me..
If we can't handle such things then we might want to rethink having a public life in that he is also an author.
Just my rusty two coppers on a rainy morning.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 9:09:20 AM
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rabanes
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JAY: The irony is that from where I sit Silva is using the exact same rationale for doing what he does as you are
RA: Incorrect. My actions were NOT a violation of Matthew 18, since I was responding to a public action taken by Silva (i.e., the publishing of his offensive article), which is not covered by Matt 18 (this passage covers personal/private sins). Whereas Silva, after he felt that I had indeed sinned against him privately, skipped steps #1 & #2 in Matthew 18 and took it to the church (and the world's eyes in general). That's not the same at all.
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solar: ... you also threatened them - not just Silva, with legal action.
RA: 1. I didn't threaten Silva at ALL. Who was that email addressed to? Answer: IPOWER, not Silva. Why is that so difficult to understand. Moreover, even if i DID threaten IPOWER (which I did not, if you actually look at the text), then that would be a threat against a secular, godless, heathen, business -- and that is CERTAINLY not prohibited by scripture. And if you read my actual email to IPOWER, I didn't technically threaten them either (see my OPEN LETTER).
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solar: try doing things in an honorable way.
RA: The honorable way? How about the Biblical way and the reasonable way as well. NOTHING in the Bible prohibits my having contacted an ISP to alert them to what I felt was someone's violation of their TOS. That is neither prohibted by Matt. 18 or 1 Cor. 6. And it is tragic to me that Christians have gotten to a place where they are hiding behind scriptures, abusing them and twisting them, to make sure they are not accountable -- and can go on the internet to say/do whatever they want to do. That is tragic.
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solar: Personally, I think you should stop, now
RA: But everyone keeps asking questions and misrepresenting the truth. I have notihng to hide, and with each answer, truth is coming to light. The FACTS are as follows:
1. Silva published an article that I felt was against his TOS agreement with his ISP. To me it also demonstrated libel/slander under the guise of apologetics/discernment. Because it was a public article with public influence, it did not in any way fall under the guidelines of Matthew 18, which deals with PRIVATE/PERSONAL sins.
2. I PRIVATELY contacted Silva's ISP about the article, telling them I felt it had broken their TOS agreement -- not a violation of any scripture.
3. They investigated. They agreed. And then they sent Silva an email asking for the article to be taken down.
4. Silva was furious, feeling unrighteously persecuted by the ISP, as well as feeling as if I had privately sinned against by him.
5. Silva then clearly violated Matthew 18, which does indeed cover PRIVATE sins that you feel have been committed against you by a brother. My so-called "sin" was indeed private. But instead of going to me privately, he skipped steps #1 and #2 of Matthew 18 and took it not only to the church, but to the entire world -- creating an Internet circus of hate, anger, bitterness, judgment, condemnation, arguments, and division in the church.
6. In the midst of his unbiblical/ungodly and defiant violation of Matthew 18, Silva also broke federal copyright/privacy laws because he published online the private email I had sent IPOWER. He additionally broke federal copyright/privacy laws by forwarding that same email to other parties not directly involved in the issue.
7. In the midst of the firestorm, I have been answering question -- while Silva continues to go forward unrepentant, spinning this into something it never had to be.
Those are the facts. Truth hurts falsehood. Light hurts darkness. Righteousness hurts unrighteousness.
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prophet: Would be interesting to understand where in the article contitutes "slander, libel or defamation"
RA: I have my list. It has been sent to those who I feel needed to see it. And IPOWER certainly made their decision after reading what they read. What is odd to me is how so many people, who are not at all involved, believe that they are the ones qualified to sit in judgment of the article. This is not a global tribunal. This is not a church-wide court. But that is what Silva made it by his unbiblical violation of Mattew 18 and his violations of federal copyright/privacy laws. Unfortunate actions for a pastor to take.
I'm certainly ready to move on, as soon as people have had their questions/comments answered.
Richard Abanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 9:14:16 AM
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rabanes
Posts: 29
Joined: 8/2/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
Forgiveness is important, and as we forgive, so shall we be forgiven.
Forgiveness has nothing to do with filing a complaint. Can a Christian forgive someone who has stolen from them? Sure. Does that mean that same thief is not arrested, tried, and convicted? No. Can a Christian forgive a waitress or grocery store stock boy for being terribly rude? Yes. Does that mean the Christian does not go and speak to that the manager/supervisor of that waitress or stock boy? No. I have forgiven Silva, long ago, that is not even the issue. TRUTH is the issue here. Accountability is the issue here. Proper conduct publicly and privately is the issue here.
RAbanes
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 9:45:41 AM
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solarflare
Posts: 798
Status: offline
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/5/2008 10:23:39 AM
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stateofgrace
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