Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat- Richard Abanes
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Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat- Ri... - 7/28/2008 8:25:38 PM
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prophet
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Blog Shut Down by 'Christian' Apologist's Threat
Contact: Pastor Dustin Segers, Coalition of Concerned
Bloggers, ChristianResearchNetwork.com, 336-848-7197
MEDIA ADVISORY, July 28 /Christian Newswire/ -- Pastor Dustin Segers submits the following and is available for comment:
How safe are our blogs? That question was raised again when on the evening of July 26, 2008, a popular religious blog was shut down by an Internet service provider. A complaint filed by Christian author and apologist, Richard Abanes, claiming that one article on the religious opinion site, Apprising.org, had slandered him, caused the web host, IPower, to send its publisher, Ken Silva, a 48-hour warning to remove the offending piece or be taken down. In that the piece was not believed to be slander at all, but rather religious and theological opinion, he refused to be forced into censoring his site by Richard Abanes. The site went down.
There are serious implications here for all bloggers, regardless of what sort of blog they publish. Anyone who has a complaint about your views can claim that you have engaged in slander and the ISP Terms of Service usually allow for the companies to remove your website if you don't take the material in question down. The First Amendment means nothing in these cases. ISP's cannot and will not explore the claims of slander and simply notify bloggers to remove whatever is causing the problem. This opens the door for anyone to censor what a blogger writes online.
Everyone who values the right to read and publish blogs on the Internet has a vested interested in the issue. There is growing concern in the blog world over this, and a number of servers are popping up that offer "First Amendment" hosting. These are web hosts which require a court order before they will remove someone's website. Their day has clearly come
http://christiannewswire.com/news/332947299.html
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 7/28/2008 8:29:53 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1712
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That's a little frightening. Though, in fairness, I would have to read the supposed slander before deciding whether or not Mr. Abanes had a valid point or not.
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You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 7/28/2008 8:44:46 PM
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prophet
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Heres the complain
To: LEGAL DEPT. IPOWERWEB
FR: Richard Abanes
RE: Defamation-Libel - IPOWER hosted website, apprising.org
To whom it may concern,
Ken Silva, owner and operator of apprising.org, which is hosted by IPOWERWEB.NET, has engaged in posting libelous, defamatory statements on his website about me — i.e., Richard Abanes.
By way of introduction, I am an award-winning, bestselling author/journalist with twenty books published by major publishing houses. My public reputation, therefore is of paramount importance to my livelihood and career. Mr. Silva, with no regard for factual information, has posted on his apprising.org website:
- defamatory accusations,
- baseless commentary that impugns my personal/professional integrity, and
- factual errors about my published materials.
http://apprising.org/
Edited TOS 8
< Message edited by Kath -- 7/29/2008 2:55:58 PM >
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 7/29/2008 12:59:56 PM
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Soxfan
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Richard Abanes is an apologist and supporter of Rick Warren and his Purpose Drivel model. The blogger has been very critical of Warren's movement. I'm sure this came from higher than Abanes. I wouldn't be surprised if it came from Saddleback
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 4:05:36 PM
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rabanes
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Friends,
There has been a great deal of misinformation spreading about this issue. Please see my 8/2/2008 3:36:49 PM post in THIS THREAD.
RAbanes
Pop Culture Mix
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 8:18:34 PM
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earthless
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Richard,
Welcome to the boards. We met a few years back at a conference where some of our fellow counterparts were at.
If this is really you - can you please address our concerns of your involvement and support of the 'Purpose Driven' issue?
Thank you.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 9:33:30 PM
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earthless
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Richard,
I have read your book which chronicles Rick, where you also take the time to address some of the concerns from its critics (me being one of them). I do have to say that this thread is not about PDL so it was unfair of me to ask you that question in this current context.
Welcome to the board and good to see you here.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 9:37:59 PM
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rabanes
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TBH, Earth, rather than dwelling on the past, I am trying to go forward with new projects that deal with what i consider serious threats to the church. Please enjoy some material on my latest work regarding ECKHART TOLLE and OPRAH WINFREY.
peace at ya!!
RA
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 9:48:50 PM
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earthless
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Richard,
I have already read it, I received a copy the day it was released from my sources. I enjoyed it, thank you for writing it.
I also wrote a few perspectives on the whole Tolle/Oprah topic, something that has died down a bit it seems. Currently I am focused on the Counterfeit Revival of Todd Bentley/Lakeland.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 9:55:42 PM
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rabanes
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quote:
Currently I am focused on the Counterfeit Revival of Todd Bentley/Lakeland.
EXCELLENT!!!
peace,
RAbanes
Pop Culture Mix
PS So which forums are best for me to kick up some dust and say hello?
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/2/2008 9:59:37 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rabanes
PS So which forums are best for me to kick up some dust and say hello?
This one - the 'Church' sub-forum is a hotbed for threads on Word of Faith (Latter Rain/Kingdom Now/Elijah's List, Joel's Army, etc) false teachers and false prophets.
Cults, occultic movements in the church, heretical teachings under the banner of Christianity. The skin of the truth stuffed with a lie.
New Age'ism packaged and repackaged for Christian consumption. Another sub-forum that is a bit of interest is the 'General Faith' one. We currently have a thread there asking, "Did Jesus ever claim to be God?" where we have some that are self-professing Christians stating that Jesus did not claim to be God, but that He was in partnership with him akin to a wife to her husband.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/3/2008 12:37:11 AM
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peacebringer
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On to the topic of this thread. It is really unfortunate that a conflict such as this got to the internet and became public for the whole world.
It is sad and detracts from other things that God may have us do. It is real easy for any one of us to get distracted. It is really easy for any of us to get defensive when under attack.
Oh and mr. Abanes, if you took offense at anything I said to you at Charisma, it was only making a comment on exhibited behavior. Nothing I said is ever meant as an attack but a confrotation. If you ever have anything personally at issue with anything I say I am not that hard to track down...:)
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 9:58:28 AM
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rabanes
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This Open Letter to Steve Camp outlines my initial thoughts/intentions/motivation for writing to Ken Silva's ISP. It also covers various issues relating to the "Ken Silva vs. Richard Abanes" controversy, including:
1. Bible Study notes on key passages being discussed (1 Cor. 6 and Matt. 18),
2. the actual contents of my email to Silva's ISP,
3. observations about the current state of the church,
4. an indictment of today's so-called Online Discernment Ministries, and
5. documentation of Ken Silva’s violation of federal copyright/privacy laws, and other issues.
The open letter should answer most questions and addressed the widely-read article by Steve Camp titled "Battles in the Blogsphere."
This is my final word on the issue. Those who have ears to hear, and eyes to see, will both hear and see the truth.
Proverbs 18:13 reads: "He who answers before listening—that is his folly and his shame."
Proverbs 18:17 tells us: "The first to present his case seems right, till another comes forward and questions him."
Richard Abanes
Pop Culture Mix
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 12:29:38 PM
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peacebringer
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Sigh, I hate the public conflict that is going on and wish there would be some moving toward forgiveness and ultimatley reconciliation. It is sad what is going on. They are both in the wrong as in most conflicts. Sigh.
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 2:03:14 PM
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stateofgrace
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Richard: I know very little about your specific situation, so please consider these comments as intended to state an opinion in general about conflicts between self-proclaimed Christians on the internet.
IMO, utilizing terms like "defamation" and "'libel" in an email to an ISP when complaining about the content of one of their customer's web sites -- insinuates something about the intentions of the person sending the email (as in, legal action may be forthcoming if the offending content is not removed).
I have known perhaps a good half-dozen cases in the last decade where "bigger fish" have tried to silence "smaller fish" on the internet through methods of intimidation. In all these cases, the people in both camps were self-proclaimed followers of Christ.
Frequently, the methods of the "bigger fish" have included the insinuation of legal action if the "smaller fish" don't shut up. There's no room for "agreeing to disagree" or simply recognizing that one can't control other people. Or, simply standing in one's refuting of the critic's accusations. The critic's words have to disappear. The critic has to be made to shut up and disappear.
In a few cases I know of - it's actually gone further than just insinuation of legal action. I don't know of a single case where the "big fish" in question have had a court rule in their favor (I know of a few dismissals). But even the threat of legal action can be somewhat effective in regards to intimidation (especially since in many of these cases the "big fish" is tied to an organization that may have legal staff on retainer, or may not have to bear legal expenses personally, whereas often the "smaller fish" is an individual who will have to shoulder the expenses of defending themselves).
I was thinking back to the examples of both Jesus and Paul in the NT. Both were outspoken when it became necessary. Their words were sometimes strong, sometimes even harsh. Other than Jesus' actions towards those who were desecrating the temple, I can't recall any other time that either did more than present their arguments - exhorting, refuting, etc. - and let that stand.
I wonder if you couldn't have followed their examples in this situation (again, I don't know the specifics and I really doubt I want to know). Why couldn't you have taken the high road - presented your clear, strong, rational response to this other person's claims (without the letter to the ISP), publicized your response on the internet, and then let it go?
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 8/4/2008 2:10:07 PM >
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 2:08:43 PM
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earthless
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Excellent points - excellent.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 2:33:34 PM
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rabanes
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STATE: ...utilizing terms like "defamation" and "'libel" in an email to an ISP when complaining about the content of one of their customer's web sites -- insinuates something about the intentions of the person sending the email (as in, legal action may be forthcoming if the offending content is not removed).
RA: Well, since I was dealing professionally with a business, I couldn't very well use the terms "not nice" or "really mean." Those terms describe in adult, rel-world, business, terminology what Silva had done in my opinion -- i.e. violate his TOS agreement, and those are the terms that IPOWER uses in their own TOS agreement.
___________
STATE: I have known perhaps a good half-dozen cases in the last decade where "bigger fish" have tried to silence "smaller fish" on the internet through methods of intimidation. In all these cases, the people in both camps were self-proclaimed followers of Christ.
RA: 1. I'm not that big a fish. 2. I NEVER tried to "silence" anyone. Did you know that Silva had up more than one article on his website that spoke about me negatively? I didn't agree with any of them. And you know what else? I only complained about ONE of them. Clearly, I wasn't trying to "silence" anyone. This is the line coming from those who would want to be able to say anything and everything on the Internet with no accountability. You're above assumption about my motives is wrong, as the evidence I cite shows. I had/have no desire at all for Silva to be silenced.
____________
STATE: Frequently, the methods of the "bigger fish" have included the insinuation of legal action if the "smaller fish" don't shut up.
RA: I never told Ken to shut up. He violated his own TOS it seems, according to IPOWER's actions. I called their attention to it (see above).
____________
STATE: Why couldn't you have taken the high road - presented your clear, strong, rational response to this other person's claims (without the letter to the ISP), publicized your response on the internet, and then let it go?
RA: You need to read my OPEN LETTER. And friend, I was NOT the one to publicize ANYTHING. I did this all behind closed doors -- Ken Silva was the one who screamed like a banshee on the Internet about it and announced it to the world. So, just for the sake of accuracy, let's keep that straight. And in doing what he did by announcing it, he also broke federal copyright/privacy laws by posting my email to IPOWER on the Internet --- a private email. You can read the documentation for that in my OPEN LETTER. (Oh, he also forwarded that email on to others -- yet another violation of copyright/privacy laws).
Richard Abanes
Pop Culture Mix
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 2:40:55 PM
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solarflare
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quote:
Ken Silva was the one who screamed like a banshee on the Internet about it
Personally, it's stuff like this I have a problem with. I have read your posts, Silva's posts - your letter, his responses - no where does he address you in this manner.
Screamed like a banshee? There is something very wrong here. An awful lot of hostility from one Christian to another comes across - I'm not the one in public forum, you are, so, don't be surprised by public opinion.
For an author you seem to run short on words quite quickly and become rather short and calling people 'friend' does not cover that up. No one is right when Christians are tearing each other apart and one has to be the 'right' one or have the final say.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 8/4/2008 2:54:21 PM >
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 2:56:07 PM
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earthless
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Richard,
How are his posts any different from those that speak about false teachers like Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, etc? In the sense that they could use cry about the text being unfair, attacks, etc..
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 3:35:43 PM
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rabanes
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Solar: {Ken Silva was the one who screamed like a banshee on the Internet about it} no where does he address you in this manner.
RA: I am using hyperbole. I guess it doesn't translate well online. What is interesting is I will say something like this, and it's awful. But Silva will violate his TOS, and break federal copyright/privacy laws and that's just fine. Interesting. 
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Solar: An awful lot of hostility from one Christian to another comes across - I'm not the one in public forum, you are, so, don't be surprised by public opinion.
RA: I actually meant it to be rather light-hearted -- as an expression, an attempt to keep this as light as possible. I guess people are a bit more serious about it. I didn't type it with a menacing scowl on my face. Goodness. 
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EARTH: How are his posts any different from those that speak about false teachers like Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, etc? In the sense that they could use cry about the text being unfair, attacks, etc..
RA: No worries. Issues dealing with First Amendment freedoms such as criticizing specific acts as sinful (e.g., fornication, homosexuality, etc.) and declarations about alternate religious belief systems being false (e.g., the New Age) are in no way being endangered. Such assessments are completely protected in the blogshere by our Freedom of Speech. The problem with the article in question was the personal nature of its attack on me. It was not about my theology or doctrinal views. Bloggers are PERFECTLY safe.
Richard Abanes
Pop Culture Mix
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RE: Blog Shut Down by 'Christian" apologist threat... - 8/4/2008 4:09:22 PM
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rabanes
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Too bad the interview was not really all that accurate, but only more of the same smokescreen and false cries of persecution. Here's an interesting take on it from someone I don't even know.
The Richard Abanes Ken Silva Fiasco - THEOLOGY TODAY. As it so succinctly puts it:
quote:
"Richard Abanes went to an ISP . . . . Ken Silva went to the entire world. Brethren. Doesn’t this bother any of you in the least? It bothers me greatly because I’m seeing a double standard here. Is it really ok for those who desire to hold Abanes to Scripture but look the other way when Silva goes one step further and notifies possibly the entire world that he was “wronged”? There are some within the blogosphere who are asking Abanes to go and reconcile with his brother…entirely Scriptural….but why aren’t these same people asking Silva to do the same? Didn’t Silva violate Scripture also Brethren? Why shouldn’t Silva be held to the same standard…..in fact as a “pastor” shouldn’t Silva be held to a HIGHER standard (1 Timothy 3)?"
I've been asking these same questions since the whole thing started, which by the way, would never have been such a mess were it not for Silva announcing it to the world. Interesting, no?
RAbanes
< Message edited by rabanes -- 8/4/2008 5:18:51 PM >
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