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Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/27/2008 6:38:44 PM
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gaylel1
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Boys and girls, could you believe that Fred Price is now an apostle...ok,what do you apologists think about this?
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/27/2008 7:08:33 PM
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colliefan
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Did he get a raise in pay? A move to a even bigger mansion? Can now drive a Masserati instead of a Lexus?
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/27/2008 7:11:48 PM
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csl7037
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I think I've heard him say he only drives Bentleys.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/27/2008 7:33:42 PM
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gaylel1
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To answer your question, here's is the web site.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/27/2008 8:27:30 PM
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earthless
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Bonafide false teacher. Here is a classic audio piece.
And a nice compliment piece for one of the underlying problems: HERE
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/28/2008 6:05:16 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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This would be a prime example of buying a title, thus cheapening the title, buffering the ego of the bearer, and doing absolutely nothing for anyone else in the process.
As for Fred Price on a personal level... congratulations... you found another Word of Faith preacher with doctrinal problems... what's the encore? Giving an exhibition of the newest technique for solving "Where's Waldo" puzzles?
Were I the moderator, I would suggest that this thread by moved to the WoF discussion thread.
Adam
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/28/2008 7:57:11 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
As for Fred Price on a personal level... congratulations... you found another Word of Faith preacher with doctrinal problems...
Adam
Why does it bother you so much that unsuspecting people may be correctly informed about a false teacher and fleecer of the flock?
Maybe I am just misreading your stance, please correct me if I am wrong.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/29/2008 3:20:54 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Maybe I am just misreading your stance Wouldn't be the first time, I doubt it will be the last.
My stance is why do we feel a need to continually flog a horse that is already quite dead. Why glory in the doctrinal failings of a preacher that is clearly associated with a movement that is renowned for failings of that exact type? It's like saying, "I went to Russia and found a Russian!!!" The OP is asking for the opinion of "apologists", which I'm assuming to be people like me, because I seem to find myself defending the character of those with whom I disagree on a fairly regular basis. My opinion is............ So? The world sins, the religious point their collective fingers, and the Word of Faith people have doctrinal problems. This is in no way earth shattering or revelatory... just like finding a Russian in Russia.
A word to those believing themselves to be wise: be cautious how closely you scrutinize someone else... God will use your own measure on you in time.
Adam
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/29/2008 5:07:21 AM
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buckifn
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There are a lot of wolves in sheeps clothing. We need to pray and ask God for discernment.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/29/2008 7:53:41 AM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
quote:
Maybe I am just misreading your stance Wouldn't be the first time, I doubt it will be the last.
My stance is why do we feel a need to continually flog a horse that is already quite dead. Why glory in the doctrinal failings of a preacher that is clearly associated with a movement that is renowned for failings of that exact type? It's like saying, "I went to Russia and found a Russian!!!" The OP is asking for the opinion of "apologists", which I'm assuming to be people like me, because I seem to find myself defending the character of those with whom I disagree on a fairly regular basis. My opinion is............ So? The world sins, the religious point their collective fingers, and the Word of Faith people have doctrinal problems. This is in no way earth shattering or revelatory... just like finding a Russian in Russia.
A word to those believing themselves to be wise: be cautious how closely you scrutinize someone else... God will use your own measure on you in time.
Adam
Adam, you ask why?
Because the horse is not dead. Because thousands of people are in that church today and thousands more pay heed to what this man says as God's truth.
Again, why it bothers you that Christians sound the alarm to a fire/danger that is alive and well is beyond me. My assumption is that it bothers you because you don't like these Word of Faith types to be exposed. You'd rather have them be left alone so they can continue about their business.
But we all know how assumptions can be......
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/29/2008 12:42:32 PM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Bonafide false teacher. Here is a classic audio piece.
And a nice compliment piece for one of the underlying problems: HERE
earthless, on that video link, who is that female preacher that looks like she is from the 1970's. she looks very familiar.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/29/2008 6:07:02 PM
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earthless
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Which of the two video links? The first or the second one?
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/30/2008 3:18:39 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
Adam, you ask why?
Because the horse is not dead. Because thousands of people are in that church today and thousands more pay heed to what this man says as God's truth.
Again, why it bothers you that Christians sound the alarm to a fire/danger that is alive and well is beyond me. My assumption is that it bothers you because you don't like these Word of Faith types to be exposed. You'd rather have them be left alone so they can continue about their business.
But we all know how assumptions can be...... You and I are obviously making very different associations of who the "horse" is in the above statement. Namely, I find that the hounding of WoF types is a deplorable use of time that could be spent getting closer to God. So, why can't we just agree that the WoF has doctrinal problems, and let it lay there? The "dead horse" is the argument over whether or not the WoF has bad doctrine. You say they do, I say they do... just about everyone on this board that would care would say they do... the horse is dead.
Now, you specifically ask why it bothers me that Christians "sound the alarm to a fire/danger that is alive and well"... I will answer simply and directly.
(A) It is the job of church leadership (ie, true apostles, prophets, denominational leaders... people with spiritual leadership of the larger church) to "expose the fallen". Exhibit A: Paul and Jesus...
(B) The people who take the greatest unction in "cleansing false doctrine" are so focused on rooting out the wolves that they don't care if they loose a couple sheep along the way. It is the on the shepherd to clean out the predators, not the sheep.
(C) The church has much bigger fish to fry than nominal false doctrine... how about if we work on the moral decline in the church instead? How about if we talk about how the dead are being raised at the name of Jesus in Africa while the church is busy hemorrhaging members in America?
(D) We miss the forrest because we are too busy staring at a bush.
Now, I would much rather that the WoF stuff was taken to the WoF One Stop... and I wish that they would be left alone. Why? For the exact same reason that I wish I would be left alone while I pray all night. Need I remind us, that these are fellow CHRISTIANS that we are talking about... people we are going to be spending eternity with... I think we had better learn to live with them now. I'm sure that people like Fred Price, Mike Murdoch, and Kenneth Copeland will have some repenting to do when they see God... I'm also 100% sure that I will too. However, let us consider how many people may have been genuinely saved by these men... and how few most of us can truly point to. Yes, I have criticism of their doctrine... but my complaints remain with their doctrine alone... and I always have in the back of my mind, "I wonder where I'm screwing up this badly?"
Adam
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/30/2008 10:29:10 AM
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Stephanos
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To be fair Adam, given Earthless' testomonies, I would say that he does fit with your reason A) that you gave.
As to some of the WOF being Christians, I would have to say that the average person in the seats, may yes be a Christian being deluted by the teachers. However I would say that most of the hard core teachers of this movement. Esspecially the higher up well known ones, are NOT saved because they are teaching a Christ and a gospel that is unknown to the bible. Something that is not in the truth. That is why it is so important to "beat the horse". Apologetics is not for everyone, but it is a needed field. Needed to try and warn people
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/30/2008 2:42:41 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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Hello Adam:
I say this not in opposition to what youve said, only that youve stirred my mind to think of an example to the modern day wof'er.
Balaam.
Lets look at him quickly.
Balaam
1. prophecied blessing over the Israelites
2. Was spoken to by God directly.
3. Truly prophecied about Israel
4. Gave to Israel only what God has said to him.
So at first the conclusion is Baalam was a real and true prophet of God speaking blessings on Israel.
Another look at Balaam
1. He was hired to curse Israel
2. He was willing to curse Israel for money
3. He bilked Balak of enough money to build 3 altars for sacrifice.
4. He finally couldnt prophecy cursings so he changed tactics
5. He taught the Moabite women how to seduce the Israelite men...
Num 25:1 And Israel abode in ****tim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
Num 25:2 And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
Num 25:3 And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
SEX was the agent but idolatry was the goal. So it is with the false teachers we see today.
Money and gain is the agent, so that worldliness and covetousness....which is idolatry is practised in the church. Col 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
I see clearly balaam preaching today the tactic is slightly different but the end result is the same, a turning away from the true God to a religion of baal worship and worship of Jehovah combined.
2Pe 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
John
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/30/2008 2:51:19 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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Adam: I do share very strongly one point youve made.
I spend the majority of my time seeking God and preparing for and engaging in preaching to the lost. I believe they deserve the lion-share of effort. I dont have any(that I know of) my students and members jumping ship to join the wof'ers. I have diligently taught them the Word of God, God need not go to the expense of a miracle to preserve them from such error because Christ all along the way has taught them how he wants them to live.
John
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Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 3:00:04 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
I would say that he does fit with your reason A) that you gave I believe you would agree that there is a difference between being a pastor and being a denominational head, prophet, or apostle, yeah? I have no problem with pastors teaching their churches against false DOCTRINE. What I have a problem with is the repeated and needless badgering against those who admit to being teachers in the Word of Faith movement. I openly admit that I disagree with Fred Price on his doctrine, but that is absolutely as far as I am allowed, biblically speaking, to go. Why? Because (A) I am not an Apostle, Prophet, or Denominational Leader, (B) the direct correction of specific teachers is given to a select few people... namely, those who are "over them", in "direct relationship" with them, or God. Beyond that, we are crossing a boundary that we do not need to. Let me flip this on it's head... remember, this example is purely for the sake of being an example.
I can tell my congregation "earthless is a heretic because he preaches that Jesus didn't raise from the dead." Or I can tell my congregation "There are a lot of heresies out there, such as the idea that Jesus didn't raise from the dead." So let me ask directly... both convey the same message that the idea of Jesus not raising from the dead is flat out wrong, but which one is more loving... to my congregation AND to the person teaching the false message?
As I have said countless times, if you want to bash the Word of Faith doctrine up and down the street, be my guest. Lets leave the name-calling and microscopes at home.quote:
However I would say that most of the hard core teachers of this movement. Esspecially the higher up well known ones, are NOT saved because they are teaching a Christ and a gospel that is unknown to the bible. I honestly hope you are not being serious. The most familiar WoF teachers (I'm thinking of people like Copeland, Hickey, and Murdoch) teach 95% of the time that God wants to bless you... which is true... the lengths to which the doctrine is taken is not. "Name it, Claim it" is dead wrong, but it isn't heretical and doesn't specifically contradict the Bible. Sowing and Reaping is a Biblical principle, so that obviously can't be at stake... Maybe what makes us all so uncomfortable is that these guys say that God will bless you if you sow money into their ministry instead of sending it to the poor... Which, once again, is not heretical. Wrong, but not heretical.
Perhaps you are thinking of the whole part of Jesus going to Hell... First, that would be affirmed by the Apostle's Creed. So maybe the problem would be WHY they say Jesus descended... which is not expressly heretical either.
Maybe you are thinking more of the "little gods" doctrine. (A) It isn't heretical. It is error, but it isn't heretical. (B) The basis for it is the verse about "putting on Christ", and then taking it to an unhealthy extreme that lends itself to the Manifest Sons of God problem.
I find it is very easy to throw around terms such as "a different Jesus" or "a different Gospel"... but the understanding of that term is very fluid, so it means practically nothing.quote:
Apologetics is not for everyone, but it is a needed field. Needed to try and warn people I love apologetics... I agree that it is a very needed field. However, I think the church is under enough attack from the skeptics outside and from the spread of liberal doctrines inside without exacerbating our problems by having every third person pointing a finger at people and calling them "wolf!" Here is the question... what are we warning people from through our studies of apologetics? Firstly, apologetics is a field of study that is mostly involved with defending the faith from attack. So after a good apologetical study, you should be able to give a well-reasoned answer as to why you believe what you believe. Apologetics is not specifically concerned with proving someone else wrong, but with proving yourself right. Apologetics is meant to bolster your faith... not to bludgeon someone else's to death. Here is my delusion...
God loves me. God wants to bless me. God will not sacrifice my soul on the altar of blessings. God will only bless me materially to the point that I can be blessed and still love Him with a violent passion. God is not opposed to people having wealth (I'm thinking of Abraham, David, Solomon, and Joseph), but God desires my heart more than I desire comfort. God tells me to love my neighbor, and love covers the multiude of sins (1st John) because it hopes all things (1st Corinthians 13). Based on this, if I cannot cover the multitude of sins even with someone that I disagree, I am not loving my neighbor.
My confession? Doctrine can be discussed without targeting people. As I continually say, bash the doctrine all you like... but leave the names out of it. If someone is truly curious about who would teach something so "silly", they can ask. I am asking one thing, and one thing only... ease up on the people. I'm willing to believe that they are honestly teaching what they honestly believe is true. However, it is more than possible to be sincere and be wrong. That is the difference. I don't think Fred Price, Kenneth Copeland, Creflo Dollar, or Mike Murdoch are trying to lead people astray or "fleece the flock", but I think they are wrong about their doctrinal convictions. That is a massive difference in how we discuss these issues.
For the record, I wish these kinds of topics would get moved to the One Stop altogether so that they would at least be filed correctly.quote:
I dont have any(that I know of) my students and members jumping ship to join the wof'ers. I have diligently taught them the Word of God, God need not go to the expense of a miracle to preserve them from such error because Christ all along the way has taught them how he wants them to live. Teaching truth is very admirable. As long you teach the truth, you shouldn't even need to thrash someone else's ministry for teaching a different doctrine.
And I do think that God gives miracles as gifts to the church... Financial and physical.
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 8:06:56 AM
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earthless
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Adam,
Maybe I should start calling myself a Prophet and or an Apostle. Perhaps even both? Hmm.. it has a nice ring to it. Lord knows you and others would then probably pay heed to almost anything I could mutter.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 8:13:43 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Adam,
Maybe I should start calling myself a Prophet and or an Apostle. Perhaps even both? Hmm.. it has a nice ring to it. Lord knows you and others would then probably pay heed to almost anything I could mutter.
Well earthless, you do know that there are schools you can go to to become a "prophet".
Try taking "Thus Saith the Lord 101"
See?
Try Googling "School of Prophets"
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 8:54:50 AM
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redeemedsaint
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Paul is the only apostle I know. Probably picked up his "apostle" degree at the 2 for 1 sale at Kmart.
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Get off the track cause the freight train is coming - Coach Bobby Lee Duke from Facing the Giants
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 7:00:17 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Adam,
Maybe I should start calling myself a Prophet and or an Apostle. Perhaps even both? Hmm.. it has a nice ring to it. Lord knows you and others would then probably pay heed to almost anything I could mutter.
Well earthless, you do know that there are schools you can go to to become a "prophet".
Try taking "Thus Saith the Lord 101"
See?
Try Googling "School of Prophets"
Well, that likely opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, regarding Adam and IHOP. After all, IHOP has a "Healing and Prophecy" program at Forerunner School of Ministry.
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 9:09:02 PM
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LBolt
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I certainly like the music from Apostle's Price's site, it's very peaceful! I have to agree with Adam, I rarely post on threads such as these because I don't like the bashing of individuals and saying that someone is not saved. As far as someone being a "denominational leader" serving as a criteria for bringing godly correction and admontioning...I honestly find no biblical grounds for this. I do see your point...that it may be more readily received from someone to whom they regard as a spiritual authority, especially from someone from among there peer group.
Denominationalism in my opinion, is not of ELOHIM! By it's very name, it denotes separation and division. John 17 attests to this. ELOHIM can use any one to He so chooses to bring correction in LOVE.
The problem is that with the "titles" comes a greater propensity for pride. It takes humility to receive correction. Sometimes it is hard to receive correction from someone not on your level. See Naaman and his servant.
But I agree, this should fall up under the WoF one-stop thread.
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 7/31/2008 9:56:32 PM
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earthless
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Does anyone have a comment regarding Fred Price's comment about following the examples of a 'rich Jesus'?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Ladies and Gentleman, Here is Apostle Fred Price!!! - 8/1/2008 8:44:12 AM
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Soxfan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
I certainly like the music from Apostle's Price's site, it's very peaceful!
I noticed that you prefaced Price with "Apostle" (capital A). Could you please explain to us his qualifications to be a foundational Apostle?
Has he been witness to the risen Christ?
quote:
I have to agree with Adam, I rarely post on threads such as these because I don't like the bashing of individuals and saying that someone is not saved.
Evidence please?
< Message edited by Soxfan -- 8/2/2008 8:57:25 AM >
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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