RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 4:36:05 PM
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Carrieberry
Posts: 9
Joined: 7/23/2008
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Yes, thank you, we do have a court appointed parenting coordinator (excellent idea to have) who agrees that dad should keep his word about raising our child Catholic.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 4:48:01 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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This thread has kinda been driving me crazy. I've hesitated to post, however. For what it's worth, it seems like the less of a major deal is made over this the better it would be. Wouldn't it make more sense for parents to try to cooperate a little? It's bad enough issues between two grown adults put a child in this position in the first place.
A court appointed parenting coordinator is, frankly, a terrifying notion to me. The idea that a court appointed whomever could tell a grown man where to go to church and how to raise his child is downright ridiculous.
If parents could keep their attitudes in check (attitudes toward each other and toward the differences in the church choices), the differences really should be minimal and not cause enormous confusion for the child, if handled correctly and without undue judgement on both or either part - which it's apparently too late for here.
It's not like he's dragging this child into a cult. You should be thrilled that when you have to send her to spend time with her father, you're sending her to a Christian home and not into a complete nightmare of depravity and ungodliness. A good friend of mine struggled with this, her ex belittled Christians, teased her daughter, had all kinds of nonsense going on in his home when she was there and just about drove my friend insane with worry and anger. You should be thanking God you don't have to send her into a horrible situation every other weekend and get over your petty theological hangups.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 4:51:25 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1587
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carrieberry
If I go to different Christian churches I will find SOME part of the Christian faith in each of them, but only in the Catholic church, can I find the FULLNESS of the Christian faith founded by Jesus himself . Why should anyone settle for less? I want our child to have it ALL.
OK. I'm Catholic, and I'm even going to go against this. I do NOT believe that the Catholic church is the only church where you can find the "fullness of the Christian faith founded by Jesus himself."
It might be the original church per history, but I firmly believe that a Protestant church can also lead one to a full Christian relationship with God. These churches and their teachings may differ in some small areas, but I believe that they are every bit as legitimate in their beliefs and teachings as Catholocism, as they were formed when the original Christian Church was doing some extremely improper (dare I say heretical) things. Even the Catholic Church we know of today is different from the "original" one because it had to under go some serious changes after the Reformation.
You started off really good when you pointed out that "saying that Catholics equate and define their faith by their attending church denotes a misunderstanding of what the Catholic faith really is." You were right, but after that, you lost me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carrieberry
Many Christians hate what they THINK the Catholic church is, but very few would hate it if they knew what it REALLY teaches. It would be wise, before posting any opinions about the teachings of the Catholic church as facts, to verify them in the Catechism of the Catholic church. As posted before here are some good links to start with if interested:
I do agree with this, though.
< Message edited by TorchHeart -- 7/28/2008 4:58:15 PM >
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 4:55:56 PM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 11501
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Second warning: Keep this thread on the parenting topic, not on Catholic doctrine.
If it persists in the realm of Catholic doctrine, it will be closed and redirected to the Catholic one-stop threads.
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 5:40:41 PM
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Karaboo2
Posts: 2396
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
This thread has kinda been driving me crazy. I've hesitated to post, however. For what it's worth, it seems like the less of a major deal is made over this the better it would be. Wouldn't it make more sense for parents to try to cooperate a little? It's bad enough issues between two grown adults put a child in this position in the first place.
A court appointed parenting coordinator is, frankly, a terrifying notion to me. The idea that a court appointed whomever could tell a grown man where to go to church and how to raise his child is downright ridiculous.
If parents could keep their attitudes in check (attitudes toward each other and toward the differences in the church choices), the differences really should be minimal and not cause enormous confusion for the child, if handled correctly and without undue judgement on both or either part - which it's apparently too late for here.
It's not like he's dragging this child into a cult. You should be thrilled that when you have to send her to spend time with her father, you're sending her to a Christian home and not into a complete nightmare of depravity and ungodliness. A good friend of mine struggled with this, her ex belittled Christians, teased her daughter, had all kinds of nonsense going on in his home when she was there and just about drove my friend insane with worry and anger. You should be thanking God you don't have to send her into a horrible situation every other weekend and get over your petty theological hangups.
Can we give this post some stars?!?!?!? 
I think this sentence bears repeating:
quote:
If parents could keep their attitudes in check (attitudes toward each other and toward the differences in the church choices), the differences really should be minimal and not cause enormous confusion for the child, if handled correctly and without undue judgement on both or either part
I can't help but wonder if this is the real "issues" the child has with the situation. Yes, the OP did say that the child was concerned about not attending the Catholic church, but I truly wonder if it is because she feels this way or because she is hearing about all the strife this decision is causing between her parents.
_____________________________
Kara
Tea Drinkers Anonymous
<-- Caleb
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 5:43:25 PM
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TorchHeart
Posts: 1587
Joined: 6/4/2008
From: One of the coldest places on Earth
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Karaboo2
I can't help but wonder if this is the real "issues" the child has with the situation. Yes, the OP did say that the child was concerned about not attending the Catholic church, but I truly wonder if it is because she feels this way or because she is hearing about all the strife this decision is causing between her parents.
Agreed.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 5:43:27 PM
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manda59
Posts: 6015
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
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Carrie
You said this earlier:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Carrieberry
What makes you a real Catholic is believing and holding firm to the teachings and claims of the church founded by Jesus Christ himself and to ALL that he passed down through the centuries through the apostles and their successors; that’s what makes you a Catholic.
If your daughter has chosen the Catholic faith, and believes and holds firm to Catholic teachings and claims of the Catholic church etc, how is her dad taking her to another church going to change that?
Can you help me out here? I don't understand.
You also said:
quote:
If I go to different Christian churches I will find SOME part of the Christian faith in each of them, but only in the Catholic church, can I find the FULLNESS of the Christian faith founded by Jesus himself
quote:
You cannot separate the Catholic church, that Jesus founded, from Jesus himself because the church is the body of Christ. So sending my child to a church were division is tolerated, sends a contradictory message to her and makes a mockery of Jesus’s prayer in John 17:21 regarding “oneness” of the faith.
Are you sure that it's not your view of Protestant churches that is causing your daughter's confusion, at least in part?
quote:
“Because if feels right” is the wrong reason to attend a church. Take a look at the early Christians who gave their lives for the faith even though it didn’t “feel good” most of the time.
We prayed about which church to attend when we moved here, and settled on the one which felt right before God. I won't discuss this further as it's off topic - except to say that "feeling right" is not the same as "feeling good".
Could I just ask - have you criticised your husband's reasons for attending that church in front of your daughter?
And btw, I am *very* familiar with the teachings of the Catholic church, having a number of Catholic and ex-Catholic friends. I am not wanting to discuss this, as it's off-topic, but I just want you to know that you don't need to post any more links for my benefit (I actually have had a Catechism link open all afternoon btw).
_____________________________
"Once again....drum roll please! Manda is right"
doinkdom, October 2008
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 6:10:02 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1751
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carrieberry
If I go to different Christian churches I will find SOME part of the Christian faith in each of them, but only in the Catholic church, can I find the FULLNESS of the Christian faith founded by Jesus himself . Why should anyone settle for less? I want our child to have it ALL.
I'll try super hard to stay on topic - parenting! But I have to say that I thought this attitude was only found in the WOF churches I was raised in. I think it is very on-topic because I was very much raised in churches that firmly believed WE were the only ones who had it ALL. I was raised in very prideful, out of balance, churches that glorified the man in charge and not the Lord who was supposed to be Lord. I grew up very judgemental, and feeling very superior, to Catholics, Baptists, and everything in between. There's so much of that I'm still trying to get rid of!
Being exposed to two "flavors" of Christianity is actually an excellent lesson in discernment. Regardless of what either of you think, neither Catholocism or his church have it all right. Sorry. If you could teach your child to look for Christ glorified in each, in their different ways, pray about the differences, decide for herself where she's comfortable but also learn to appreciate what is truly of the Lord in each, she'll be a stronger Christian and a more secure person in her faith and in every way. The "we're right, they're wrong" attitude doesn't work no matter what church it's coming from. It's not good for the adults but it's so bad for children to grow up with that attitude all around them. It puts a wall between them and Christ - elevates and exhalts the church (or it's leader) and takes our eyes of what's important.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 8:05:17 PM
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Sideways
Posts: 3706
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
If your daughter has chosen the Catholic faith, and believes and holds firm to Catholic teachings and claims of the Catholic church etc, how is her dad taking her to another church going to change that?
Let me firmly state that I do not agree with the OP's position on all Protestant churches, but 10/11 years old is still a formative time in a child's development. If it were my child attending a church I had seriously doctrinal differences with, I'd be concerned to, regardless of how firm their faith was at the moment.
All in all, I don't see a clear way out of this. The OP will not take her ex to court; they've already seen a moderator about this who sides with the OP, but for time being neither parent is gonna budge in how they feel, as best I can see. The only thing left is to continue the status quo.
_____________________________
This warranty does not include shark bites, bear attacks and children under five.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 9:11:12 PM
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MrsTracy72
Posts: 1800
Joined: 2/28/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Carrieberry
If I go to different Christian churches I will find SOME part of the Christian faith in each of them, but only in the Catholic church, can I find the FULLNESS of the Christian faith founded by Jesus himself . Why should anyone settle for less? I want our child to have it ALL.
Many Christians hate what they THINK the Catholic church is, but very few would hate it if they knew what it REALLY teaches. It would be wise, before posting any opinions about the teachings of the Catholic church as facts, to verify them in the Catechism of the Catholic church. As posted before here are some good links to start with if interested:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM
http://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/churmenu.htm
http://www.ourcatholicfaith.org/index.html
Ok, this is where I have to bow out.Not to be rude, but it is getting more and more obvious that there is only one answer here that is going to make the OP happy. There is nothing on parenting here. Just a power struggle and one that won't be over until the dad sees it the mom's way. As a divorced parent, and a former Catholic, I can pretty much guarantee that is not going to happen. Your daughter is old enough to be taught the truth, and the truth is that God is in EVERY Christian's heart. Not just Catholic Christians. Your daughter needs to know that because if she doesn't and you are the only person who is bringing her up in "her" Catholic faith, then you are teaching her that all others are wrong. Not her father.
My son knows that people of all denominations can go to heaven or hell. That is because it isn't the specific church they belong to, just what is in their hearts. He was baptized in a Catholic church and also knows why I (not him) don't follow in that tradition. He knows point by point what led me to where I am today. Does he agree with me? I really don't care. All I know is that he knows God and when he is older, he will go his way and I will hope and pray that he keeps God in his heart. That is what matters in the end.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 11:17:07 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 619
Joined: 2/16/2006
From: Near Seattle Washington
Status: offline
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quote:
e I have to bow out.Not to be rude, but it is getting more and more obvious that there is only one answer here that is going to make the OP happy. There is nothing on parenting here. Just a power struggle and one that won't be over until the dad sees it the mom's way
I have been reading this thread Tracy and I think you hit it right on the head here. :) I appreciate your insight.
G
_____________________________
It does not have to be well with my circumstance to be well with my soul!
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/28/2008 11:24:58 PM
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buckifn
Posts: 1777
Joined: 5/23/2006
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quote:
He may have signed a legal binding agreement in court, but at the same time, they both not only signed legal binding agreements that they were married and stood in that chuch and made promises go God to stay married. That didn't work out either. Does that mean that both of them are dishonorable?
You can't compare a marriage vow two people enter into willingly with a court ordered set of rules for both parent's to follow when there is a divorce.
Nobody in the court system cares if the parent agrees or not the Judge decides the order and expects it to be carried out.
The real question seems to be can the op and her former spouse act like mature adults and cooperate in raising their child and follow the court order, or will they let church attendence turn into a power struggle that perm. damages their child.
From the sound of it the adults are not able to cooperate and put the need of the child first.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/29/2008 8:07:35 AM
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SteveSund
Posts: 452
Joined: 11/8/2005
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
A court appointed parenting coordinator is, frankly, a terrifying notion to me. The idea that a court appointed whomever could tell a grown man where to go to church and how to raise his child is downright ridiculous.
If parents could keep their attitudes in check (attitudes toward each other and toward the differences in the church choices), the differences really should be minimal and not cause enormous confusion for the child, if handled correctly and without undue judgement on both or either part - which it's apparently too late for here.
In a perfect world, people wouldn't get divorced and would raise their children together. In a nearly perfect world, divorced people would handle all parenting decisions with the best interests of their children and agree on everything. Since we don't have either of those worlds right now, the courts have to attempt to craft situations that are helpful to the child and this is not what usually occurs.
BTW, where did the court tell the father where to go to church? Since religious upbringing is an important area for many parents, it is often addressed in custody judgments. We are only hearing a small piece of the story, so it is really hard to say what should happen. In my experience, the situation described in the OP is pretty common.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/29/2008 9:54:33 AM
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lexie
Posts: 3039
Joined: 6/27/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
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quote:
Ok, this is where I have to bow out.Not to be rude, but it is getting more and more obvious that there is only one answer here that is going to make the OP happy. There is nothing on parenting here. Just a power struggle and one that won't be over until the dad sees it the mom's way.
I agree, it seems like this was never about the actual parenting of the child, but being the parent who has one up on the other parent.
To the OP, I don't want to sound harsh, but in the way you have said that Protestant churches teach that the Catholic church is bad or wrong, it seems to me that you too are teaching your child that Protestant churches are bad or wrong. That is something you need to be careful of. Especially in light of the fact that her father is now attending a Protestant church. It would be improper if your daughter started to judge her father by the church he attends. Even if he isn't strong in his faith as you believe, you can't let this cause a rift between your daughter and her father.
I speak from experience. When my parents divorced, because of all the squabbling that was going on, I found it easier to just side with one parent on everything. This caused so many problems throughout my teenage years and it was only as an adult that I saw where I was wrong. While things have been patched up with the other parent, they will never be as good as they once were. I wish that I could go back now and make up my mind for myself.
_____________________________
I want to be more than an ordinary servant.
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RE: Child going to wrong church with father's new family - 7/29/2008 1:12:18 PM
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revbob4God
Posts: 602
Joined: 7/25/2008
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Brothers and Sisters
The concern here is making sure that the child does not encounter a sense of feeling spiritually confused. Children experience many negative emotions during a divore. Parents often experience a sense of violation of trust with respect to the former partner. Each Parent has to do the right thing and teach the child to believe in God, Honor His commandments, and learn to serve he Lord with joy and earnest while waiting in joyful hope for Our Lord Jsus Christ to come again.
My concern is that parents should not become overly concerned with the "MY church is the right church" mentality, and should both encourage the child to grow in the stature of the Lord.
At some point, when the child reaches adulthood, it will then be the responsibility of the child to determine which church will be the basis of his Earthly Spiritual Home.
Although the job would be ghastly and difficult, both parents must make sure that the child does not develop negative associations with church and this sometimes happens when parents are not evenly yoked to begin with.
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