|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/7/2008 3:34:38 PM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Whom did I call a fool?
I was pointing out that a distinguishing mark of foolishness is to do what is right in your own eyes. Did you think that applied to you?
Don't play coy, it doesn't fit you all that well.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/7/2008 3:52:09 PM
|
|
|
DougHorton
Posts: 934
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
|
I will make my point one last time before leaving this conversation.
The sanctuary is sanctified, or set apart, for the corporate worship of God. The authority in question is God, not man. Anything you do for private entertainment is inappropriate because private entertainment, by nature, is not corporate worship.
Go ahead and do as you wish. You answer to God, not me.
Have a nice day.
_____________________________
Doug
You may think it strange, but he never likes any assistance. When he made the world, he did not ask the angel Gabriel so much as to cool the molten matter with his wing, but he did it entirely himself. -- Spurgeon
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/7/2008 3:59:20 PM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
I thought you were better than this John.
Classic ad hominem attack....
Btw... I am surprised a simple question brought forth such a response...
quote:
I have read enough of your posts to know you knew exactly what I meant. Therefore I am not going to bother to explain it to you.
You can't explain it... You said the case in point isn't biblical. That by definition is nothing more than your opinion... Just because you and the crowd you run with believe the same thing doesn't make it fact, it's just your collective opinion on the matter...
If I declared what I consider biblical fact you'd respond that it's just my interpretation of the scripture, which is nothing more of less than my opinion...
quote:
I think you just love an argument and would argue with a rock and it really don't matter which side you argue.
Yet you thought I was better than that? Something isn't jiving here...
John
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/7/2008 4:17:57 PM
|
|
|
Qtman
Posts: 9921
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
|
Thank you my friend. You just proved my point better than I ever could. And to avoid further conflict or debates with you I will leave this thread and avoid any thread you post in.
_____________________________
MERRY CHRISTMAS! For those that do not partake Happy December 25th
Body Piercings
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/7/2008 5:54:22 PM
|
|
|
Kath
Posts: 17142
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: online
|
Please, just stop it now.
There have been too many TOS 6 and 9 violations in the last few pages.
Sincerely
Kath
Volunteer Assistant Administrator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message as I am unable to discuss it further.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns allowing time for a response during normal business hours.
Posts which ignore this warning will be removed without warning and may result in other action in accordance with the Terms of Service.
Please review our FAQ for an explanation as to why one cannot confront a moderator directly.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/8/2008 9:17:38 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
I cannot believe I am reading this. We had a "church/bar" open in our area a year or so ago. The pastor built this huge building and one Fri. and Sat nights it was a bar. Then on Sundays he held church services.
About three days ago I passed by there and now it's a topless nightclub. I asked and the pastor does own it but he has stopped the Church services.
It appears nudity was more profitable than drinking and religion combined.
I wonder if the pastor in the OP will be a partaker or the teachers will?
Leviticus 10:9
"You and your descendants must never drink wine or any other alcoholic drink before going into the Tabernacle. If you do, you will die. This is a permanent law for you, and it must be kept by all future generations
I do believe the OT teaches us spiritural principles that are for us today. I see the passage dealing with the sobor mindedness required when approaching God or teaching people His truths. It's about not having a "flippant" attitude toward God, worship towards Him and teaching His truths to His people.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/8/2008 9:27:29 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
The only earthly "holy" (set apart) space denoted in scripture was in the Tabernacle made by Moses et al and later in the Temple in Jerusalem. There is nothing scriptural about having a "sanctuary" in a church building. That is a man made tradition. Not that traditions are necessarily bad; but they should be understood as traditions and not scripture, nor should we try to force some scriptures to back up our traditions. (I realize many do this because they reject the idea of following tradition)
If you don't want musical jam sessions in the main auditorium of your building, fine. Just don't attach any biblical significance to your opinion.
Dave,
I have read very little in this thread. But our entire Chruch is "holy" as in "set apart for the Lord's work". We children of God dedicated it to God. So it is "holy". I am not saying any other congregation has done this but we have. So ours is Holy. We made a vow to God and keeping your vows to God is biblical. Setting part things, crops, land and even people as Holy for God's use is scriptural so we can say what we did is biblical.
For us it's not about "tradition" it's about a vow we made and keeing that vow.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/8/2008 9:50:23 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/8/2008 9:43:01 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
I believe Jesus' words were something along the lines of "you have turned my house of prayer into a den of thieves." Indicating the money changers were robbing the people. Although it is not said the implication is if they were charging a fair exchange for the coins and a fair price for the sacrificial animals they would have been o.k. Therefore Zhi's post is correct.
Qman,
Didn't their actions only reflect the deeper issue ---- their heart?
Was the real problem making too much money or their heart that was in rebellion against God?
Notice as well that Jesus cast them ALL OUT....not just the money changers.
Matthew 21
12 Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13 "It is written," he said to them, "'My house will be called a house of prayer,' but you are making it a 'den of robbers.'"
He drove out the sellers and the buyers. The "you" applies I believe to both groups....all the people there.
I think it goes much deeper than a just charging alot of money. What is that verse> they give me lip service but their hearts are far from me? (P31W translation  )
(If some don't know it was in the law that they were allowed to do these types of transactions)
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/8/2008 9:52:29 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/8/2008 11:30:13 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Does ANYBODY try to get a handle on this thread's current issues before they go ballistic
I don't know if I fall into the "anybody" group or not but I an not going ballistic. ROFL.
I also am NOT trying to get a handle on a 27 page post. I don't want to "get a handle on it". I just read the OP and a couple of other post. I do have a life. 
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/8/2008 11:35:00 AM
|
|
|
JimboFletch
Posts: 6614
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Brief Summary from post 601:
quote:
ORIGINAL: edgibson
I have read the entire thread.
The OP has been rendered moot by the Original Poster.
There is to be no drinking.
It is not about the man running it.
The only thing left is the music.
The problem, as has been stated, is the playing of secular music. My question is, what makes music secular? Especially instrumental music.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/8/2008 11:36:41 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
The OP has been rendered moot by the Original Poster.
What post number is it? The one where the OP rendered the OP moot?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/8/2008 11:41:43 AM
|
|
|
P31W
Posts: 3005
Joined: 6/13/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Ok, what if it's shameless self promotion or he moved the scene to his own turf because he didn't have enough attention at the bar????
Here is an update: No more mention of byob, now it's refreshments and gourmet coffee being served. The cost is free, so it's non profit.
OK so the OP was playing a game. This is post 16.
My first question is does the Chruch approve of this or was the guy acting on his own without asking the church for permission?
We face these sorts of problems in our church. Some People view the church and the things in it as their own personal property. For my church we don't allow anything to go on there that would violate Romans 14-15. Why risk offending a brother/sister or tarnishing the reputation of the Chruch/ Christ before the community.
Rom 15
1 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves. 2 Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up. 3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me." 4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us, so that through endurance and the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
< Message edited by P31W -- 8/8/2008 11:49:34 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/9/2008 9:00:32 AM
|
|
|
edgibson
Posts: 145
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Then: upper NY, Now: NC
Status: offline
|
The man running it is, apparently, the music minister.
The big hangup appears to be the use of the sanctuary section of the church for the music sessions.
The OP claims that the person running it is not the issue, however, several of their posts would indicate that is incorrect.
_____________________________
Where are we going?
And why are we in this handbasket?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 8/14/2008 1:00:41 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4099
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
Zwingli? I wasn't thinking of Zwingli at all. I was thinking of YOUR argument.quote:
In these cases, when a covenant was updated, all of the provisions of the original agreement that were not specifically changed in the addendum were still in force. That's right. You just shot down your own argument against the sanctity of worship places. We don't need a NT verse. The OT reverence for places of worship was never abrogated. I honestly cannot see why this obvious fact of life is so hard to understand.
Actually I have not. In the OT the ONLY place sactified like that was the tabernacle and then the Temple. In fact, after Joshua's conquest of the land when the 3 tribes went back across the Jordan to farm their lands and they set up a duplicate altar (as a memorial not an alternate place of worship) the other tribes were ready to kill them over it.
The OT ONLY recognizes the tabernacle/temple as a sanctified place. The NT does not change that, and it is presumption and replacement theology to assume that the room in our modern church buildings where we hold services somehow takes the place of the temple.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Bringing the bar into church - 8/14/2008 1:11:43 PM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4099
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DougHorton
But suppose it is a secular tradition. Would you be allowed to have a jam session in...
... the cockpit of a passenger jet?
... the courtroom of your city hall?
... the operating room of your local hospital?
... the girl's locker room at the high school? (assuming you are male)
... the median of a limited access expressway?
No. There are certain activities which are not allowed for various reasons in certain places. Those restrictions must be respected or you will face the consequences. I wanted to address this seperately.
There may be good reasons (laws even) to prohibit these activities. However, there is no moral issue or spiritual violation in jamming in any of those places (assuming the women's locker room is empty other than us musicians). The OP is suggesting that the musicians in question violated the sanctity of their place of worship by playing "bar music" in a holy place. That is entirely on a different level than improvising blues runs in any of those places listed.
If the congregation institutes by-laws to limit or prohibit such activity, fine, they can do that. It is their building. But it cannot/should not be looked at by ANYONE as a violation of a scriptural mandate or principle.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
RE: Bringing a jam session into a church - 
