|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 3:49:25 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2997
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
This passage alone contradicts the practices of contemplative prayer, the purpose of which is to empty one's mind in order to facilitate God's presence.
How many times do you have to be told the purpose is to FILL one's mind with the truth of God. Being still and silent is a way to start the process.
Psa 37:7 (YLT) 7 Be silent for Jehovah, and stay thyself for Him, Do not fret because of him Who is making prosperous his way, Because of a man doing wicked devices.
Psa 37:7 (ESV) 7 Be still before the Lord and wait patiently for him; fret not yourself over the one who prospers in his way, over the man who carries out evil devices!
Psa 37:7 (NASB) 7 £Rest in the LORD and wait £patiently for Him; Do not fret because of him who prospers in his way, Because of the man who carries out wicked schemes.
Psa 37:7 (KJV) 7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Psa 37:7 (HCSB) 7 Be silent before the LORD and wait expectantly for Him;£ do not be agitated by one who prospers in his way, by the man who carries out evil plans.£
We are to be still and meditate for an extended period of time.
Psa 63:5 - 7 (ESV) 5 My soul will be satisfied as with fat and rich food, and my mouth will praise you with joyful lips, 6 when I remember you upon my bed, and meditate on you in the watches of the night; 7 for you have been my help, and in the shadow of your wings I will sing for joy.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 5:44:37 PM
|
|
|
mushhead
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Kearns
Status: offline
|
Colliefan,
I understand that the stated purpose is to fill one's mind with the things of God. However, if you read my post on the previous page that cites the instructions on how to practice contemplative prayer, you will find that the stated path to this fulfillment first requires the mind to be emptied. My question to you is: where does the Bible ever even hint at such a thing?
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 7:15:53 PM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
Mush,
We could compare it with the laying aside of distractions during prayer, or study, etc. It is the things that take our focus off of time spent with God that are to be "emptied." - Not a complete "emptying of the mind." If people use the term "emptying the mind", there should be a consideration of what they mean by that. Because it really doesn't matter what we think it means. It is what the author meant by it.
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 8:34:37 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2997
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
quote:
My question to you is: where does the Bible ever even hint at such a thing?
Read the bible where it states "I have stilled/quieted my soul." In the busy and hectic life there must be a process/method where we can move into a time of quietness. There is a willfull change of focus.
Luke 5:15 - 16 (NASB) 15But the news about Him was spreading even farther, and large crowds were gathering to hear Him and to be healed of their sicknesses. 16But Jesus Himself would often slip away to the wilderness and pray.
Despite the press of the crowds Jesus made a willfull decision to slip away and pray. Notice that He went into the wilderness, which in the Jewish mindet, was the abode of evil, He went straight into the heart of the battle. Just as in his last night on Earth, He went into the Garden of Gethsemene (olive press).
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 8:40:15 PM
|
|
|
colliefan
Posts: 2997
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: online
|
Mark 1:35 - 39 (NASB) 35In the early morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house, and went away to a secluded place, and was praying there. 36Simon and his companions searched for Him; 37they found Him, and said* to Him, “Everyone is looking for You.” 38He said* to them, “Let us go somewhere else to the towns nearby, so that I may preach there also; for that is what I came for.” 39And He went into their synagogues throughout all Galilee, preaching and casting out the demons.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 8:40:17 PM
|
|
|
mushhead
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Kearns
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Mush,
We could compare it with the laying aside of distractions during prayer, or study, etc. It is the things that take our focus off of time spent with God that are to be "emptied." - Not a complete "emptying of the mind." If people use the term "emptying the mind", there should be a consideration of what they mean by that. Because it really doesn't matter what we think it means. It is what the author meant by it.
I totally agree, floydette!
My only concern is, there exists an organized effort to promote the practices of eastern meditation under the guise of Christianity. "Contemplative" is on such practice. The Religious section of my local Barnes&Noble, as well as Borders Book Store, is filled with books about how to do just that. Therefore, it seems prudent to take great care not to use terms that mean something to many (if not most) people that we do not intend to convey.
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/3/2008 9:30:32 PM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mushhead
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Mush,
We could compare it with the laying aside of distractions during prayer, or study, etc. It is the things that take our focus off of time spent with God that are to be "emptied." - Not a complete "emptying of the mind." If people use the term "emptying the mind", there should be a consideration of what they mean by that. Because it really doesn't matter what we think it means. It is what the author meant by it.
I totally agree, floydette!
My only concern is, there exists an organized effort to promote the practices of eastern meditation under the guise of Christianity. "Contemplative" is on such practice. The Religious section of my local Barnes&Noble, as well as Borders Book Store, is filled with books about how to do just that. Therefore, it seems prudent to take great care not to use terms that mean something to many (if not most) people that we do not intend to convey.
I see what you are saying. There is also many people that do not realize that many eastern practices, as well as things that New Agers practices are actually things that Christians practiced first! So, there are some that feel it important to "take back" practices that were Christian to begin with! Contemplative prayer being one...  It makes for an interesting study.
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 7:17:49 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mushheadquote:
Centering Prayer Guidelines These similarities should cause all who are defending this practice to at least study the issue further. I think that most of us here would agree with you that what you are quoting IS akin to the hindu/buddhist style of pagan meditation. And I further submit that as such, it is wrong for a christian to engage in.
HOWEVER, what you describe is NOT historic christian contemplative prayer. Period.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 7:32:47 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Dan,
Do you personally know anyone who has practiced contemplative prayer? Have any of your friends focused their prayer in this way? Have you by chance? One reason I would ask, is that I am curious to know if you have seen the kind of fruit that contemplative prayer grows?
Personally, I know many contemplatives. If I generalized, (which I try not to do as a habit) I would say that these are the folks that have the greatest fruit of the Spirit in their lives - more than any others (believers) that I know. If this practice was not "right", the fruit that would be demonstrated would not be love, joy, peace, patience, etc. We are to look at the outcomes, the results. I am not speaking of behavior, rather, I am speaking of the well of grace and goodness that flows out of the depths of their relationship with God.
Yes I know many. I have seen the fruit of Contemplative Prayer: Lusty passions, power plays, broken marriages, oppression, subtle derision and shame. It is very similar to how one is left after a brush with Mormonism. It seems nice at the first, but when you do not fully follow the program because your conscience bothers you, then there is abuse of the worst kind, spiritual abuse. This is nothing new, it flows out of ancient cults like montanism.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:00:09 AM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
Dan,
I can understand a bit of why you are so against CP. It is super sad that your dear friends have experienced such things. Sounds quite human, doesn't it. Spiritual abuse is never good, no matter the group from whiich it comes. Please remember that s. abuse can come out of any group. For example, I experienced a great deal of spiritual abuse in the Baptist church. I don't think that every Baptist church offers abuse as part of their program.  However, some do. It would be the same the groups that may embrace cont. prayer. That would be a group system that is at play. Just like abuse was part of the system of the Baptist church where I attended. It was not about being Baptist (nor Contemplative) that is about having a system that is abusive. One must separate the two. Again, I am sorry for the experience of your dear friends.
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:00:19 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Luke 5:15 - 16 (ESV) 15But now even more the report about him went abroad, and great crowds gathered to hear him and to be healed of their infirmities. 16But he would withdraw to desolate places and pray.
Deut 6:4 - 9 (ESV) 4“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.£ 5You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. 7You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. Deuteronomy 6 8You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. 9You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
We are to love the LORD with all of heart, mimf, soul, and strength. Contemplative praer is one way of doing so,
You misquote the Shema Deuteronomy 6:4-9. Ancient Jews saw the heart as the thinking center. We now know that this is more properly centered on the brain. Jesus knowing this got it right.
Luke 10:27 (New American Standard Bible)
27And he answered, "(A)YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
This was Christ's understanding as well as the ancient Jews. Use your mind. Even though you have a simple mind that cannot understand God, he might even use you to glorify Himself. I will pray for your soul, whoever reads this.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:10:47 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
A quiet place is a place away from the huslte and bustle of the crowds seeking to be ministered to, it does not mean that Jesus went to be quiet.
Then why did he get away from the crowds?
Why did the Jews use phylactories and what was its purpose? Why were they to tie them around their heads/wrist?
They were misguided. These are the copies of the law tied upon the head and wrist. God writes the Law on your heart when you are saved. He keeps it common to you and helps you keep it. We are not yet perfect. When we are with God we will keep the law and it will no longer curse us.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:24:09 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: floydette
Dan,
I can understand a bit of why you are so against CP. It is super sad that your dear friends have experienced such things. Sounds quite human, doesn't it. Spiritual abuse is never good, no matter the group from whiich it comes. Please remember that s. abuse can come out of any group. For example, I experienced a great deal of spiritual abuse in the Baptist church. I don't think that every Baptist church offers abuse as part of their program. However, some do. It would be the same the groups that may embrace cont. prayer. That would be a group system that is at play. Just like abuse was part of the system of the Baptist church where I attended. It was not about being Baptist (nor Contemplative) that is about having a system that is abusive. One must separate the two. Again, I am sorry for the experience of your dear friends.
Your care is greatly appreciated. I would disagree that a system is ever responsible for abuse. And just to stay on the OP, many systems like Contemplative Prayer flow out of a lusty desire to experience something spiritual. Look at the temptations of Christ. There were only three. Passions(bread), Power(use of spiritual beings aka angels) and Possessions(all the kingdoms of the earth). There are ever only three for you and me. Look also to Eves temptations. In America we understand money and power, but passions are not something we are at all wise about. Contemplative Prayer accesses our desire for lusty experience. This is what it means to die to the flesh, to give up rights to lust. But...I am a Christian hedonist(desiringgod.org) so there is a new and Holy passion. Have a good day at work school home etc.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:28:26 AM
|
|
|
Dan1138
Posts: 236
Joined: 7/1/2008
From: The Land of Graham
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: mushheadquote:
Centering Prayer Guidelines These similarities should cause all who are defending this practice to at least study the issue further. I think that most of us here would agree with you that what you are quoting IS akin to the hindu/buddhist style of pagan meditation. And I further submit that as such, it is wrong for a christian to engage in.
HOWEVER, what you describe is NOT historic christian contemplative prayer. Period.
Dave I really think that you should look deeper. These are right along the lines of what I've seen. The practice is ancient.
quote:
Centering Prayer Guidelines
Choose a sacred word as the symbol of your intention to consent to God’s presence and action within. (cf. Open Mind, Open Heart, chap. 5)
The sacred word expresses our intention to consent to God’s presence and action within.
The sacred word is chosen during a brief period of prayer asking the Holy Spirit to inspire us with one that is especially suitable for us.
Examples: God, Jesus, Abba, Father, Mother, Mary, Amen.
Other possibilities: Love, Peace, Mercy, Listen, Let Go, Silence, Stillness, Faith, Trust, Yes.
Instead of a sacred word a simple inward glance toward the Divine Presence or noticing one’s breath may be more suitable for some persons. The same guidelines apply to these symbols as to the sacred word.
The sacred word is sacred not because of its inherent meaning but because of the meaning we give it as the expression of our intention and consent.
Having chosen a sacred word, we do not change it during the prayer period because that would be to start thinking again.
Sitting comfortably and with eyes closed, settle briefly and silently introduce the sacred word as the symbol of your consent to God’s presence and action within.
“Sitting comfortably” means relatively comfortably so as not to encourage sleep during the time of prayer.
Whatever sitting position we choose, we keep the back straight.
We close our eyes as a symbol of letting go of what is going on around and within us.
We introduce the sacred word inwardly as gently as laying a feather on a piece of absorbent cotton.
Should we fall asleep upon awakening we continue the prayer.
When engaged with your thoughts, return ever-so-gently to the sacred word.
“Thoughts” is an umbrella term for every perception, including sense perceptions, feelings, images, memories, plans, reflections, concepts, commentaries, and spiritual experiences.
Thoughts are an inevitable, integral and normal part of Centering Prayer.
By “returning ever-so-gently to the sacred word” a minimum of effort is indicated. This is the only activity we initiate during the time of Centering Prayer.
During the course of Centering Prayer, the sacred word may become vague or disappear.
At the end of the prayer period, remain in silence with eyes closed for a couple of minutes.
The additional 2 minutes enables us to bring the atmosphere of silence into everyday life.
If this prayer is done in a group, the leader may slowly recite a prayer such as the Lord’s Prayer while the others listen.
The Guidelines
Choose a sacred word as the symbol of your intention to consent to God’s presence and action within.
Sitting comfortably and with eyes closed, settle briefly and silently introduce the sacred word as the symbol of your consent to God’s presence and action within.
When engaged with your thoughts*, return ever-sogently to the sacred word.
At the end of the prayer period, remain in silence with eyes closed for a couple of minutes.
*Thoughts include body sensations, feelings, images, and reflections
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:46:48 AM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
[Your care is greatly appreciated. I would disagree that a system is ever responsible for abuse. And just to stay on the OP, many systems like Contemplative Prayer flow out of a lusty desire to experience something spiritual. Look at the temptations of Christ. There were only three. Passions(bread), Power(use of spiritual beings aka angels) and Possessions(all the kingdoms of the earth). There are ever only three for you and me. Look also to Eves temptations. In America we understand money and power, but passions are not something we are at all wise about. Contemplative Prayer accesses our desire for lusty experience. This is what it means to die to the flesh, to give up rights to lust. But...I am a Christian hedonist(desiringgod.org) so there is a new and Holy passion. Have a good day at work school home etc.
Dan,
Just to clarify, I am not talking about a system of CP. I am talking about the abusive system that hid itself in CP. CP is not a denomination, and it is not a group. It is a spiritual practice. You are correct that a system is not responsible for abuse, people are responsible for abuse. In this case, it was a group of people who chose to use CPrayer as the method of abuse. People who abuse usually grow up in systems where they learned abuse and thus are drawn to similiar systems in the bosses they work for, or the churches they attend, or the groups with which they are involved. My point is not to go off topic, but rather to make it clear that contemplative prayer is not abusive. It is the abusive system (the people involved) that used abuse. This same thing could happen (and does) in a group that has high regard for scripture and choose to use scripture in their abuse.
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:55:00 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Why did the Jews use phylactories and what was its purpose? Why were they to tie them around their heads/wrist?
They were misguided. These are the copies of the law tied upon the head and wrist. God writes the Law on your heart when you are saved. He keeps it common to you and helps you keep it. We are not yet perfect. When we are with God we will keep the law and it will no longer curse us. I am sorry but Dan gave you an incorrect answer, or at least the wrong answer for the question you asked. He is coming at the question from a modern evangelical viewpoint.
While it is true that the Jews of the first century were misguided in rejecting Jesus, and that under the new covenant the torah (teaching) of the bible is written on our hearts - inasmuch as we let the Holy Spirit do His work in our lives, these new covenant answers have little application under the Mosaic covenant. And that is the covenant they were working with and had been for almost 1500 years.
As to what phylactories are, let me tell you they are still in common use in religious Jewish congregations. The term phylactories is actually a transliteration of the greek word to describe what is called in Hebrew "Tefillin."
For what they look like: http://www.shabboshouse.com/P&E/MBB/5765/BLTOct04/BagelBrunch.htm
The Hebrew name Tefillin is from the word for prayer tefilla. It is a very literal observance of this command from the bible:
Deut 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be upon thy heart;
Deut 6:7 and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deut 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thy hand, and they shall be for frontlets between thine eyes.
The little boxes that are strapped to the forehead and the arm contain small parchments with this and other passages written on them. It seems the symbolism of having them on the forehead between the eyes and bound on the hand and arm is supposed to keep us reminded of God's ways being there in what ever we see, think and do. That is not a bad thing at all. The Jewish tradition of having the arm box next to the heart is from verse 6: "...upon thy heart."
I have a set of tefillin and pray wearing them occasionally.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 8/4/2008 9:01:22 AM >
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 8:58:30 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
Dan, did you not read what I said? chanting a mantra over and over is not nor should it have ever been a part of christian prayer.
PERIOD. End of discussion.
That is NOT what contemplative prayer is all about. It is about praying and then listening to the Holy Spirit speak to us. That is not a mind-numbing self hypnosis that comes from the other.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 9:11:46 AM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
PERIOD. End of discussion.
Does this mean the thread is closed?
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 10:11:26 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
Not necessarily.
It means I will not accept the definition of what some are calling CP that makes it out to be a hindu practice.
If they want to go on and argue the veracity of their incorrect definition, I cannot stop them.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 10:17:46 AM
|
|
|
floydette
Posts: 1087
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Not necessarily.
It means I will not accept the definition of what some are calling CP that makes it out to be a hindu practice.
If they want to go on and argue the veracity of their incorrect definition, I cannot stop them.
I understand. I was teasing. I agree, to follow a conversation (and participate) when it is based on something that is incorrect is very difficult, as well as frustrating.
_____________________________
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” Henri Bergson
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 10:21:36 AM
|
|
|
Catholicandloveit
Posts: 318
Joined: 1/3/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Yes I know many. I have seen the fruit of Contemplative Prayer: Lusty passions, power plays, broken marriages, oppression, subtle derision and shame.
Dan,
I am starting to understand your deep feelings toward CP. If this is the experience of those whom you care about no wonder you are so apprehensive about the practice. I am sure that even hearing that this is not everyone experience with CP or how everyone practices CP is of little comfort to you. I hope you continue to speak to those whom you see as having a similar negative experience.
Pax,
Mary
_____________________________
Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 10:31:46 AM
|
|
|
1love1God1way
Posts: 2478
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
I am with you on this one, Dave.
I have practiced what I would call Contemplative Prayer (and to how I was instructed how to), but it DOES NOT meet the guidelines and criterion that are being presented in this debate. Those are clearly New Age mysticism, and I would never take part in that.
I guess the best way I can describe how I see Contemplative Prayer is to simply give an example of how I do it from my life.
One day I was reading the Scripture and came across the verse that said "Your loving kindness is better than life." And I stopped, and I latched on this verse, and I read it over and over (along with its context), and I stopped, and I prayed that God would really give me that understanding of his loving kindness.
For the next couple days, I actually didn't read any new Scripture, but my prayer times were spent mulling this verse over in my mind, and my mind would go to all the stories in Scripture that show this to be true, I would think martyrs that have come to pass, I would think of my own life. And I just spent time "meditating" on this verse, and on God's loving kindness. When I felt like I had wrestled with it enough in my mind, I moved on.
Is that so bad? Is that so Hindu like?
_____________________________
love.ben
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 11:56:34 AM
|
|
|
DaveW
Posts: 4161
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
|
No, that is exactly what King David was talking about when he penned "In thy law he meditates day and night." Psalm 1.2
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 1:56:05 PM
|
|
|
mushhead
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Kearns
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: mushheadquote:
Centering Prayer Guidelines These similarities should cause all who are defending this practice to at least study the issue further. I think that most of us here would agree with you that what you are quoting IS akin to the hindu/buddhist style of pagan meditation. And I further submit that as such, it is wrong for a christian to engage in.
HOWEVER, what you describe is NOT historic christian contemplative prayer. Period.
DaveW,
You and I agree on much; if there is anything we do disagree on, it is the history of Christian contemplative prayer. As I understand it, CP began with the Desert Fathers. Their practices were similar to modern day CP practices. This conclusion is supported by the fact that modern day proponants of the practice cite the Desert Fathers to support their conclusions.
That said, Dave, I am aware that eveyone who uses the term "Contemplative" does not mean the same thing. I am not seeking to throw a blanket judgment over the whole issue. However, in our day and time, the term elicits images of certain practices that we both agree are not Biblical. Those are the practices I am speaking out against. My reason: if the percentages of those on this thread defending "Christianized new age practices" are representative of Christianithy as a whole, a freightening number of us are engaged in a dangerous activity.
< Message edited by mushhead -- 8/4/2008 2:15:43 PM >
_____________________________
MUSHHEAD
Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Matt. 7:6
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? - 8/4/2008 2:11:08 PM
|
|
|
mushhead
Posts: 529
Joined: 5/29/2005
From: Kearns
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way
I am with you on this one, Dave.
I have practiced what I would call Contemplative Prayer (and to how I was instructed how to), but it DOES NOT meet the guidelines and criterion that are being presented in this debate. Those are clearly New Age mysticism, and I would never take part in that.
I guess the best way I can describe how I see Contemplative Prayer is to simply give an example of how I do it from my life.
One day I was reading the Scripture and came across the verse that said "Your loving kindness is better than life." And I stopped, and I latched on this verse, and I read it over and over (along with its context), and I stopped, and I prayed that God would really give me that understanding of his loving kindness.
For the next couple days, I actually didn't read any new Scripture, but my prayer times were spent mulling this verse over in my mind, and my mind would go to all the stories in Scripture that show this to be true, I would think martyrs that have come to pass, I would think of my own l | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
