RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (Full Version)

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Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 8:18:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1138
God is a loving Father who lets you simply come to Him without extra spiritual Silence or Mantra.


No one has said He isn't (or at least not that I see)

quote:

Perhaps all this Contemplative Praying is simply to quiet a good conscience that bothers a poor wretched sinner.


The idea of contemplative prayer is to bring one to a closer relationship with God. (this type of prayer is just one of many ways that one can find a closer relationship btw not saying its the best or for everyone.) Can prayer quiet a conscience, perhaps if the prayer leads one to understand their sin and accept forgiveness. God like you mentioned is like a good father, he wants us to understand how our sin separates us from him but he doesn't want us to be bothered by our conscience forever, like a good parent there is always love before during and after some sinful choice. We have to accept this love there for not quieting the conscience but healing our relationship, which seams like something that should happen in prayer.

quote:

If you are unsaved, perhaps you need this Contemplative Prayer like a drug.


Isn't prayer the 1st step in most people's personal relationship with God, and don't we all need prayer to maintain that relationship. I say not like a drug but like water, food and air.

quote:

It certainly takes many bizarre forms like shofar trumpets and laser beam emitters shooting coded prayer into outer space.


When did contemplative prayer become some coded mess we shoot into outer space with lasers?


Dear Catholicandloveit,

I don't really think that you know the depths of this thing called Contemplative Prayer. Please research this subject and you will see how it was revived from fringe groups like the Gethsemane Encounter in 1996.

http://www.monasticdialog.com/a.php?id=775

The goal is to erase the lines between religion and unite, but still remain within your tradition of choice. Does this sound like something the False Prophet would promote or Rick Warren or David Jeremiah?



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 8:24:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:


I just did a search for Contemplative prayer and read several sites


Just a couple. Did you go to every site?

Comtemplative prayer has been around since the dawn of the church. Granted, there are new age "churches" that try and intergrate eastern teaching. But to say this is true of all churches would be saying all churches follow WOF teachings simply b/c a small fragment follow their heresy.

International House of Prayer, Saddle back Church, Mars Hill, David Jeremiah many many in the Charismatic, Catholic, Episcopalian, and Presbyterian traditions just off the top of my head. This has inundated the traditions of what many would call Christendom.



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 8:30:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

quote:

Comtemplative prayer has been around since the dawn of the church.
Quite so. The earliest known "Christian Mystic" (of Catholic origin, anyway) was actually Origen in the late 300's AD.
quote:

How many of you who support contemplative prayer would want your child or spouse sitting with you and repeating a word over and over - blocking you out.
And here we see the difference in paradigm. Contemplative prayer is not the same as sitting in a room with someone and saying the same phrase over and over. Imagine something more along the lines of you and your spouse sitting on the sofa in front of a fire cuddling. You don't have to say much of anything, but you are still communing and feeling love for each other. That is the point of Contemplative Prayer. For people who pray so little, we have very narrow definitions of what prayer actually is. Contemplative prayer is you sitting in a room letting God hug your spirit, for lack of a better term. This is far removed from, say, intercession, where you are specifically making your requests known to God. The "mindless repetition" of a single phrase, while not even close to mandatory for contemplative prayer, is nothing more than a helpful way to keep your mind focused singularly on God.

Adam


Then why do we need all of the trappings of soft light, soft music? Why does the band and the singer keep singing that phrase at 4 am? Why do we need to stay up all night praying? I can pray on the tractor. I pray as I go around working every day. I look up and wonder at the majesty of God's nature, his sky, his tree and my mind is full of thought. I NEVER found the silence spoken of in the "Cloud of Unknowing."

I pray you to consider what I say. Many will perish.



floydette -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:04:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TrustingGod

From a website teaching contemplative prayer:
"Do not allow your thoughts or feelings to get in the way. When thoughts come into your mind, gently let go of them"
"Put your faith and love into the word or phrase."


I just did a search for Contemplative prayer and read several sites. Most indicated that we are to say a word or mantra over and over and if we find ourselves straying from that word or mantra, we are to refocus on it. How many of you who support contemplative prayer would want your child or spouse sitting with you and repeating a word over and over - blocking you out. WHY DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD WANT THIS?


Just checking...did you switch your screen name? Wondering if I am talking to the same person who started it. I came in very late, and may have missed something.

Back to contempl. prayer. Gosh, it has been around for a very, very long time. Hundreds of years. It is a practice that believers have used, not as a mantra, but rather a way to focus on God. It could be compared to some worship choruses that are repetive, so that one can not focus on what the words are (trying to figure out when to come in, or what verse is next) but rather in that, to be able to focus on God and how he is speaking to our souls at that time.



Catholicandloveit -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:05:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Dear Catholicandloveit,

I don't really think that you know the depths of this thing called Contemplative Prayer.


I don't think you do either. This is my deffinition,

2724 Contemplative prayer is the simple expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus, an attentiveness to the Word of God, a silent love. It achieves real union with the prayer of Christ to the extent that it makes us share in his mystery.

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p4s1c3a1.htm#2709

For more information on Contemplative and other forms of Prayer from my catholic view point.

We disagree on what contemplative prayer is I think.

Pax,
Mary



floydette -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:15:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit


2724 Contemplative prayer is the simple expression of the mystery of prayer. It is a gaze of faith fixed on Jesus, an attentiveness to the Word of God, a silent love. It achieves real union with the prayer of Christ to the extent that it makes us share in his mystery.



Mary, I think this is a good definition of contemplative prayer. Thanks for offering it to us.


Dan, (Trusting God, I now see you are sep folks - sori) I think that perhaps you have read about contemplative prayer from folks who 1) really don't understand it and 2) because they do not really understand, they are against it as well. I know there are several groups out there who fall into those areas of belief.

If contemplative is something that you do not feel is presently right for you, then stay away from it. However, many people, for years, have been able to experience a great depth in their relationship with Jesus because of this practice. If people have experienced this, nothing you can say is really going to change their minds. I would encourage you to read alittle of pro-contemplative literature. Even if it is not for you, it is good to read alittle bit of the other side, so that you understand the arguments. Personally I have read alot of the anti-contemplative side. I do understand what they are arguing against, I just do not agree with what is written on those sites. The most important thing is that we choose a spiritual practice that develops great fruit (of the Spirit )in our lives.



TrustingGod -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 2:43:48 PM)

For the one who asked, I read at least 10 websites and most of them were similar. In fact, many used the same terminology - as if they copied from each other (or a particular source). Most referred back to the 3 monks as the "fathers" of contemplative prayer.

Floydette, just because it has been around a long time, doesn't make it good/right. When Jesus' disciples asked Him to teach them to pray, He did not teach them meditation. I don't find anywhere in the New Testatment anything about the form of prayer that tells us to get quiet and repeat a prayer word or mantra.

As I have researched this subject and prayed about it, the verse that comes over and over in my heart is narrow is the path to heaven and wide is the road to destruction (Matt 7:13). I believe many people are on the road to destruction because they follow man's teaching instead of God's. (I'm not taking JUST contemplative prayer here.)

I'm not against quiet time with God. I'm not against being in a quiet place and listening for God to speak. What I'm against is a "new teaching" that is not scriptural.



colliefan -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 4:43:00 PM)

Doesn't the agruement boil down to a prefered style of prayer. As with the worship wars, there is a wide varierty of music. As to church styles, one has the charismatic, liturgical, tradiitional, and all the varities in between. There are preaching styles from topical to exegetical. Going though the bible there are many postures in which one can pray.

Isn't the main thing keeping our focus on God as the source and object of our prayers? The style in which we approach God a matter of personal preference.



JesKlu -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 5:01:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan1138

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

quote:

It certainly takes many bizarre forms like shofar trumpets and laser beam emitters shooting coded prayer into outer space. This is what they did at "the Call."
Uhm... shofar trumpets, yes. Laser canons? no.


On 7-7-07 at "The Call," of which Mike Bickle is the Director, shot laser beam prayers into space. Mike Bickle is also founder of IHOP (International House of Prayer) a heavily Contemplative group. This is what was said by Ray Hughes of MorningStar Ministries:

"Right before we do this, I want you to know that a renowned scientist inventor has invented a device that literally takes the sound and converts it back to light. And there are five lasers going forth out of this, and every sound of our voice, the sound of our praise, the sound of our proclamation literally (inaudible) goes 25,000 miles into space beyond the (inaudible) , and we’re going to praise the Lord in the heights - in the heavens, according to the word of David."

MorningStar Ministries is Rick Joyners' thing.

It is all about the experience. Is this how King David saw this?


I don't know much about Morning Star Ministries, but I think Rick is not getting the point. Like others said on here, contemplative prayer has been around since the dawn of the church, and has been very helpful to people in their relationship with God. The whole point of Contemplative Prayer is for you to draw closer to God and for you to hear God's voice.

1 Kings 19:9-13
And the word of the LORD came to him: "What are you doing here, Elijah?"
10 He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, broken down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."

11 The LORD said, "Go out and stand on the mountain in the presence of the LORD, for the LORD is about to pass by."
Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave.
Then a voice said to him, "What are you doing here, Elijah?"

Elijah did not hear the Lord in the wind, Elijah did not hear the Lord in the Earthquake, and the prophet Elijah did not hear the Lord in the fire. But where did Elijah hear the Lord's voice? In a still, small, voice. A gentle whisper where there was no noise.

Your sister in Christ Jesus,
Jessica



TrustingGod -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 5:57:33 PM)

Jessica, that passage does not support contemplative prayer. It does support getting quiet and allowing God to speak and really listening for Him.

Colliefan, I agree that how one prays is a personal decision; however, it must line up with God's Word. If we teach one thing outside God's Word and call it God's Word, it is heresy. If we teach new spiritual revelations that are not scriptural how will we know the truth?

Getting quiet before God and really listening is so very important. Sitting down and chanting a word or mantra is simply not Scriptural.



floydette -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 6:04:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TrustingGod

For the one who asked, I read at least 10 websites and most of them were similar. In fact, many used the same terminology - as if they copied from each other (or a particular source). Most referred back to the 3 monks as the "fathers" of contemplative prayer.

Floydette, just because it has been around a long time, doesn't make it good/right. When Jesus' disciples asked Him to teach them to pray, He did not teach them meditation. I don't find anywhere in the New Testatment anything about the form of prayer that tells us to get quiet and repeat a prayer word or mantra.

As I have researched this subject and prayed about it, the verse that comes over and over in my heart is narrow is the path to heaven and wide is the road to destruction (Matt 7:13). I believe many people are on the road to destruction because they follow man's teaching instead of God's. (I'm not taking JUST contemplative prayer here.)

I'm not against quiet time with God. I'm not against being in a quiet place and listening for God to speak. What I'm against is a "new teaching" that is not scriptural.

TG,

I hear what you are saying. However there is nothing in contemplative prayer that is anti-biblical. Just because you do not see it in scripture...
1) doesn't mean it wasn't done by the church fathers,
2) doesn't mean it is wrong (if it did, then being on the computer could be wrong, because computers weren't in the bible, etc. and, I think you don't mean to go down that path),
3) doesn't mean that it leads to anything evil and
4) it doesn't mean that it isn't there - I know Dan mentioned smething along the lines of the verse, "be still and know I am God" being the verse for contemplatives. That seems like a pretty good verse to explain it. It isn't a new teaching - that is what has been said many times.

If the way that Jesus taught the disciples is the only way to pray, then we ought not to pray aloud in church, or before meals, (except for passover, which we don't often celebrate unless we are Jewish, etc..)

Paul said pray without ceasing - that is part of contemplative prayer. It isn't about speaking a mantra over and over. The anti-contemplative sites will say that, but that is not true in my experience or studies.



floydette -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 6:06:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Doesn't the agruement boil down to a prefered style of prayer. As with the worship wars, there is a wide varierty of music. As to church styles, one has the charismatic, liturgical, tradiitional, and all the varities in between. There are preaching styles from topical to exegetical. Going though the bible there are many postures in which one can pray.

Isn't the main thing keeping our focus on God as the source and object of our prayers? The style in which we approach God a matter of personal preference.


collie, I think this is a really good point.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 9:34:56 PM)

quote:

Then why do we need all of the trappings of soft light, soft music? Why does the band and the singer keep singing that phrase at 4 am? Why do we need to stay up all night praying? I can pray on the tractor. I pray as I go around working every day. I look up and wonder at the majesty of God's nature, his sky, his tree and my mind is full of thought. I NEVER found the silence spoken of in the "Cloud of Unknowing."

I pray you to consider what I say. Many will perish.
Question 1: soft light and soft music creates a relazing environment so you aren't distracted. Nothing more, and nothing less. If it helps you enjoy prayer, it is merely a peripheral.
Question 2: by being on the NightWatch, it is also more focused, undistracted time to spend praying... what else would you do at 4 AM? There are a very number of select activites to be done at that time of day... working, breaking the law, or just being irresponsible.
Question 3: Does anyone HAVE to pray? Ever? No. Jesus did, however. During the whole "walking on water thing", Jesus had gone up the mountain to pray while his disciples rowed across the lake ALL NIGHT. Psalm 134 even says, "Behold and bless the Lord, all you servants who stand by night in the house of the Lord." Do you NEED to stay awake all night to pray? No... but imagine rearranging your entire life to pray.

Yes, you can pray while you are working... feel free to... the monks in the middle ages did the same thing (hence the gardens, swabbing the floors, all that). However, I also see value in taking focused time to take a break from running around working to just sit and enjoy God.

If you see something here that endangers the souls of men, I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him... (Ephesians 1:17)

Adam



TrustingGod -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:00:29 PM)

It wasn't the "anti-contemplative" websites I was looking at. I was reading the websites that teach you how to do contemplative prayer. They are the ones that said to pick a word or mantra (one said to use marantha) and say it over and over. If you find yourself straying from saying, refocus on the word. One site even instructed you to have faith in the word you are repeating.

Getting on the computer is not a spiritual endeavor. I believe the Word of God gives us all instructions concerning our relationship with Him.

Actually, Jesus' prayer does teach us to pray out loud - how else would the disciples have heard his instructions [:)]

I actually agree with you, floydette, on most your points. As I've mentioned before, you can't just look at one definition of contemplative prayer - I'm all for getting quiet before God and listening to Him speak. But if you go back to the "originators" of it, they are wandering into mysticism.



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:32:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

quote:

ORIGINAL: TrustingGod

From a website teaching contemplative prayer:
"Do not allow your thoughts or feelings to get in the way. When thoughts come into your mind, gently let go of them"
"Put your faith and love into the word or phrase."


I just did a search for Contemplative prayer and read several sites. Most indicated that we are to say a word or mantra over and over and if we find ourselves straying from that word or mantra, we are to refocus on it. How many of you who support contemplative prayer would want your child or spouse sitting with you and repeating a word over and over - blocking you out. WHY DO YOU THINK GOD WOULD WANT THIS?


Just checking...did you switch your screen name? Wondering if I am talking to the same person who started it. I came in very late, and may have missed something.

Back to contempl. prayer. Gosh, it has been around for a very, very long time. Hundreds of years. It is a practice that believers have used, not as a mantra, but rather a way to focus on God. It could be compared to some worship choruses that are repetive, so that one can not focus on what the words are (trying to figure out when to come in, or what verse is next) but rather in that, to be able to focus on God and how he is speaking to our souls at that time.


I am the OP. Yes it is as old as the Desert Fathers. Gnosticism and Apocryphal texts are also old. Do not be fooled by desire for "ancient wisdom." Research Teresa of Avila for starters.



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:41:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Doesn't the agruement boil down to a prefered style of prayer. As with the worship wars, there is a wide varierty of music. As to church styles, one has the charismatic, liturgical, tradiitional, and all the varities in between. There are preaching styles from topical to exegetical. Going though the bible there are many postures in which one can pray.

Isn't the main thing keeping our focus on God as the source and object of our prayers? The style in which we approach God a matter of personal preference.


A.W. Tozer said, “It is my opinion that tens of thousands of people, if not millions, have been brought into some kind of religious experience by accepting Christ, and they have not been saved.”



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 10:54:33 PM)

From instructions of IHOP or Int'l House of Prayer:

"In this time, feel the freedom to stay quiet. Silently ask the Spirit to show you a vision, or slowly and silently say to Him, 'I love You. I love You. I love You.'"

This IHOP is a main outlet for Contemplative Prayer and repetition is the key.



colliefan -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 11:14:30 PM)

quote:

Colliefan, I agree that how one prays is a personal decision; however, it must line up with God's Word. If we teach one thing outside God's Word and call it God's Word, it is heresy



But Comtemplative Prayer IS centering on God's word and letting it speak to you. IHOP is a collection of false teachings. Just because they use it, doesn't negate its value. And what kind of prayer did Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemene. What was his practice in prayer?



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 11:22:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin

Question 1: soft light and soft music creates a relazing environment so you aren't distracted. Nothing more, and nothing less. If it helps you enjoy prayer, it is merely a peripheral.
Question 2: by being on the NightWatch, it is also more focused, undistracted time to spend praying... what else would you do at 4 AM? There are a very number of select activites to be done at that time of day... working, breaking the law, or just being irresponsible.
Question 3: Does anyone HAVE to pray? Ever? No. Jesus did, however. During the whole "walking on water thing", Jesus had gone up the mountain to pray while his disciples rowed across the lake ALL NIGHT. Psalm 134 even says, "Behold and bless the Lord, all you servants who stand by night in the house of the Lord." Do you NEED to stay awake all night to pray? No... but imagine rearranging your entire life to pray.

Yes, you can pray while you are working... feel free to... the monks in the middle ages did the same thing (hence the gardens, swabbing the floors, all that). However, I also see value in taking focused time to take a break from running around working to just sit and enjoy God.

If you see something here that endangers the souls of men, I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ may give to you a spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him... (Ephesians 1:17)

Adam
quote:

Ephesians 1:17


I would sleep at night. As for mood music and lighting it is a trapping for the flesh. These trappings please mens' desires and are nothing to God. It is the attitude of your heart that is pleasing in prayer. After all the Saved man is the Temple. Night watches are no longer needed in a building called a temple. That is how mens' souls are endangered by the making of prayer itself into an Idol. Men return to old ways seeking a God they do not know just like Judaisers of the first century AD. You call it Harp and Bowl worship. All it is is responsive chanting that induces ecstasia, an alpha wave response in the brain that is a dream state while awake. Wiccans (witches) famously use this as a primary step to spell casting. As my wrestling coach used to say: "control the head, control the body"



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 11:30:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

quote:

Colliefan, I agree that how one prays is a personal decision; however, it must line up with God's Word. If we teach one thing outside God's Word and call it God's Word, it is heresy



But Comtemplative Prayer IS centering on God's word and letting it speak to you. IHOP is a collection of false teachings. Just because they use it, doesn't negate its value. And what kind of prayer did Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemene. What was his practice in prayer?


I would recommend bold action in the service of God in your daily life. Through the ensuing persecution you WILL experience God. Witness constantly. Look to the Chinese Brothers and sisters. There are tens of thousands of Corrie Tenbooms over there. They work 18 hours a day, beaten, underfed, slaves, stringing Christmas lights for our religious experiences. I am ashamed that I still have my life in the face of my Chinese brothers. They do not "Contemplative Pray" to find God! They know Him!



colliefan -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 11:36:46 PM)

Psa 131:1 - 3 (ESV) 1 O Lord, my heart is not lifted up; my eyes are not raised too high; I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me. 2 But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; like a weaned child is my soul within me. 3 O Israel, hope in the Lord from this time forth and forevermore.

Notice that one who wrote has stiled his heart as he is making the clomb to Jerusalem. Centering prayer is focusing on the one who is the object of our journey. It is focusing on the Word of God. It is listening for His voice and looking for His guidance.



colliefan -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (7/31/2008 11:39:19 PM)

quote:

They do not "Contemplative Pray" to find God! They know Him!


How do you know this to be true. They are probably closer to the mindset of the people at the time of Jesus. Which is the mindset of the Jewish people.



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (8/1/2008 8:01:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colliefan

Psa 131:1 - 3 (ESV) 1 O Lord, my heart is not lifted up; my eyes are not raised too high; I do not occupy myself with things too great and too marvelous for me. 2 But I have calmed and quieted my soul, like a weaned child with its mother; like a weaned child is my soul within me. 3 O Israel, hope in the Lord from this time forth and forevermore.

Notice that one who wrote has stiled his heart as he is making the clomb to Jerusalem. Centering prayer is focusing on the one who is the object of our journey. It is focusing on the Word of God. It is listening for His voice and looking for His guidance.
quote:

Psa 131


Psalm 131

Childlike Trust in the LORD. A Song of Ascents, of David.

1O LORD, my heart is not proud, nor my eyes haughty;
Nor do I involve myself in great matters,
Or in things too difficult for me.
2Surely I have composed and quieted my soul;
Like a weaned child rests against his mother,
My soul is like a weaned child within me.
3O Israel, hope in the LORD
From this time forth and forever.

The heart is the ancient Jewish center of thought, cognition and reason. To quiet your soul is to submit to God. You glorify God when He works through you, NOT when you work through Him. Here is a quote by one of the Fathers of Contemplative Prayer:

“In the silent contemplation of God we are entering deeply into the spiritual realm… there are various orders of spiritual beings, and some of them are definitely not in cooperation with God and his way!” Prayer: Finding the Heart’s True Home, Richard Foster, Harper, 1992, First Edition, p. 157

Are you smart enough to swim with spiritual sharks? Which spirits are lying? In this next quote about Contemplative Prayer the mystical stream is Contemplative Prayer.

“This mystical stream is the Western bridge to Far Eastern spirituality… It is no accident that the most active frontier between Christian and Eastern religions today is between contemplative Christian monks and their Eastern equivalents.” Spiritual Friend, Tilden Edwards, pages 18 and 19.

Tilden Edwards is the founder of Shalem Institute for Spiritual Formation.

King David was no Contemplative. When you walk closely with God through real trouble, you do not need the trappings of Centering Contemplative Prayer. That is how I know the Chinese Christian slave brothers pray.



Dan1138 -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (8/1/2008 8:35:00 AM)

Brennan Manning is a great teacher of Contemplative Prayer. This will lay it all out. The original post claims Contemplative Prayer to be mysticism this will show it.

-The Signature of Jesus, by Brennan Manning

[T]he first step in faith is to stop thinking about God at the time of prayer.

[C]ontemplative spirituality tends to emphasize the need for a change in consciousness we must come to see reality differently.

Choose a single, sacred word repeat the sacred word inwardly, slowly, and often.

[E]nter into the great silence of God. Alone in that silence, the noise within will subside and the Voice of Love will be heard.

Satan will appear as an Angel of light or a voice of love.

-The Crucifiction, by Jesus Christ

"Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing"



floydette -> RE: Contemplative Prayer is it mysticism? (8/1/2008 8:54:08 AM)

Dan,

Do you personally know anyone who has practiced contemplative prayer? Have any of your friends focused their prayer in this way? Have you by chance? One reason I would ask, is that I am curious to know if you have seen the kind of fruit that contemplative prayer grows?

Personally, I know many contemplatives. If I generalized, (which I try not to do as a habit) I would say that these are the folks that have the greatest fruit of the Spirit in their lives - more than any others (believers) that I know. If this practice was not "right", the fruit that would be demonstrated would not be love, joy, peace, patience, etc. We are to look at the outcomes, the results. I am not speaking of behavior, rather, I am speaking of the well of grace and goodness that flows out of the depths of their relationship with God.



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