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RE: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 9/18/2008 11:34:02 AM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 228
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
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Isaiah 29:
quote:
Nevertheless, if you would consider the overall theme of the Revelation, it is more related to the rise of the enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, (see: the Red Dragon, the Beast from the Sea, the Beast from the Abyss, the Destroyer (Abbadon), the False Prophet, and the Woman dressed in scarlet sitting on seven hills, aka the Whore of Babylon), and God's subsequent judgement upon them, (see the seven trumpets and the seven bowls of wrath), which leads to the complete restoration of creation, ie. a new heaven and a new earth. (see Rev. 21)
I couldn't disagree with you more! I believe that the book of Revelation is first and foremost, as indeed the first five words of the first verse declare, "The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST." It is written to encourage believers to be faithful to Jesus (even in the midst of suffering), and to give them hope that they will ultimately be victorious. It is about the sovereignty of God, and His victory over sin and Satan! Like the first 65 books of the Bible, it is about JESUS, JESUS, JESUS!
Here are some more reasons why I am convinced that the rider on the white horse is JESUS, and not the antichrist:
Reasons why it is Jesus, and not the Antichrist:
1. White in Revelation is always used as a symbol of Jesus or His followers.
Ten examples:
- Rev. 1:4 - Jesus is described as having WHITE hair.
- Rev. 3:4 - Jesus said the conquerors will walk with Him in WHITE
- Rev. 3:5 - Jesus said the conquerors would be clothed in WHITE
- Rev. 4:4 - the 24 elders were clothed in WHITE
- Rev. 6:2 - there is a rider on a WHITE horse
- Rev. 6:11 - the martyred conquerors were given WHITE robes
- Rev. 7:14 - the great multitude of conquerors in Heaven were given WHITE robes
- Rev. 14:14 - Jesus is seen pictured on a WHITE cloud
- Rev. 19:14 - the armies of Heaven are seen wearing WHITE
- Rev. 10:10 - God is seated on a WHITE throne
2. Jesus is described elsewhere in Revelation as a rider on a white horse.
“Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True and in righteousness He judges and makes war.” (Rev. 19:11)
3. Jesus is described elsewhere in Revelation as one who has conquered.
“Look, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the heir to David's throne, has conquered. He is worthy to open the scroll and break its seven seals.” (Rev. 5:5).
4. Jesus is described elsewhere in Revelation as one wearing a crown.
“Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown.” (Rev. 14:14).
There is just simply no good reason to attribute this rider on the white horse to the antichrist, other than the fact that Hal Lindsey or the Left Behind books have said it is so, and in my humble opinion, that is not a good enough reason!
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 9/18/2008 9:35:41 PM
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Sinner-Saint
Posts: 499
Joined: 10/5/2006
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Let's see, God has decreed desolations for the end-times.
He has written these down and sealed them seven times over.
No one can open the Seals except Jesus.
Jesus breaks the first Seal ~ and out pops Jesus?
How incongruent is that?
If you look to OT prophecy, which Revelation draws upon, you'll find four chariots of horses coming out between two bronze mountains which symbolizes their entry from the heavenly realm.
The magnitude of the horsemen has grown.
The four are colored similarily, the only difference is the dappled/chloros horse and pale green is not a horse color but describes what this spirit does.
In Zechariah, these four chariots of horses are described as spirits.
They go to work in the world.
I think, as do some others, that each horseman/chariot paves the way for the next one.
Revelation reveals the order in which they come.
Revelation also reveals the living creature who calls each one out.
The first Horseman is not Jesus, but a spirit.
It makes war possible.
I think I know what this spirit has accomplished.
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RE: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 9/20/2008 11:48:45 AM
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Isaiah29
Posts: 118
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: online
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There is just simply no good reason to attribute this rider on the white horse to the antichrist, other than the fact that Hal Lindsey or the Left Behind books have said it is so, and in my humble opinion, that is not a good enough reason!
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
Greetings Chris,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions. However, before you post them, you should actually read the posts on which you are opining. Otherwise you appear quite foolish. I am the author of this thread, and I stand by all that I have written. Please show me a single passage in which I claimed the rider on the white horse is the anti-Christ. I have never made such a statement, hence your entire argument rests upon a lie.
In regards to Jesus being the rider on the white horse, I already responded to that theory in post 23. If you would like to discuss my response, please do so. But in the future please refrain from making false claims in order to refute them, or from attempting to smear me by linking me to persons with whom I do not agree. It is unbecoming of either a scholar or a Christian.
In Christ,
Ariel
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RE: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 9/20/2008 6:49:58 PM
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ChristopherJ
Posts: 228
Joined: 11/30/2007
From: Canada (The True North Strong and Free!)
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah29
Greetings Chris,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions. However, before you post them, you should actually read the posts on which you are opining. Otherwise you appear quite foolish. I am the author of this thread, and I stand by all that I have written. Please show me a single passage in which I claimed the rider on the white horse is the anti-Christ. I have never made such a statement, hence your entire argument rests upon a lie.
In regards to Jesus being the rider on the white horse, I already responded to that theory in post 23. If you would like to discuss my response, please do so. But in the future please refrain from making false claims in order to refute them, or from attempting to smear me by linking me to persons with whom I do not agree. It is unbecoming of either a scholar or a Christian.
In Christ,
Ariel
Ariel,
I just wanted to point out that I found your post to be a little harsh, to say that I am trying to smear you and making false claims in order to refute them. The idea that the first rider on the white horse is the antichrist is a very common - albeit incorrect one - in the church today. I did not say that YOU said the first rider was the antichrist... (If I read one of your posts correctly, it looked like you said you believe he is Mohammed?). Anyway, let us remember that this is a Christian forum, and try to treat one another with respect, even though we may have differing opinions about these doctrines, amen?
Many blessings,
Chris
_____________________________
Chris Jordan
www.beausejourchurch.ca
http://thelandofpromise.blogspot.com/
(visit our website for free MP3 audio sermons, sermon notes, articles, devotionals and more).
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RE: Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse - 9/21/2008 9:41:06 PM
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Isaiah29
Posts: 118
Joined: 5/8/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ
quote:
ORIGINAL: Isaiah29
Greetings Chris,
You are certainly entitled to your opinions. However, before you post them, you should actually read the posts on which you are opining. Otherwise you appear quite foolish. I am the author of this thread, and I stand by all that I have written. Please show me a single passage in which I claimed the rider on the white horse is the anti-Christ. I have never made such a statement, hence your entire argument rests upon a lie.
In regards to Jesus being the rider on the white horse, I already responded to that theory in post 23. If you would like to discuss my response, please do so. But in the future please refrain from making false claims in order to refute them, or from attempting to smear me by linking me to persons with whom I do not agree. It is unbecoming of either a scholar or a Christian.
In Christ,
Ariel
Ariel,
I just wanted to point out that I found your post to be a little harsh, to say that I am trying to smear you and making false claims in order to refute them. The idea that the first rider on the white horse is the antichrist is a very common - albeit incorrect one - in the church today. I did not say that YOU said the first rider was the antichrist... (If I read one of your posts correctly, it looked like you said you believe he is Mohammed?). Anyway, let us remember that this is a Christian forum, and try to treat one another with respect, even though we may have differing opinions about these doctrines, amen?
Many blessings,
Chris
Greetings Chris,
You addressed the post to me, quoted from me directly, then stated categorically that "I couldn't disagree with you more!" and finally ended your post by saying;
"There is just simply no good reason to attribute this rider on the white horse to the antichrist, other than the fact that Hal Lindsey or the Left Behind books have said it is so, and in my humble opinion, that is not a good enough reason!"
Perhaps that is how I was under the impression that you thought I subscribed to the above mentioned theory, which I do not. I believe it to be nothing more than "pop theology", spread about by TV evangelists and fiction authors. I take the Scriptures far more seriously than that.
You say my post was harsh, and so it was. If you were offended, I apologize, but this is not a game, nor a frivolous pursuit. We are engaged in unravelling the mysteries of the kingdom of God as revealed in God's Holy Word. Since I believe we are living in the end times as described in God's Word, it is ever so important that we divide the Word correctly:
"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2Tim. 2:15
There is a lot of idle chatter on these boards, and I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in it. My concern is uncovering the truth of Scripture and seeing how that truth applies to our daily lives. Since I believe that we are now having to deal with all four horses and their riders in this day and age, how we understand them becomes a matter of utmost importance, especially since any one of them can bring about our ruin; and cumulatively they represent the greatest threat the Christian Church has ever faced, or ever will face. The very fact that death rides the fourth horse and "hell follows after him" should alert you to how dangerous these forces truly are. Indeed, in the very next passage after they come forth, the opening of the fifth seal, John describes the "...souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held." Rev. 6: 9. Why do you suppose these souls who were slain for the Word of God are mentioned immediately after the four horses and their riders come forth? Is it not entirely likely that the four horses and riders were involved in them being slain because of the Word of God and the testimony they held?
I do not want to die, but since I boldly proclaim the Word of God and bear testimony to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the reality of His presence in my life, that makes me a marked man. I have already been persecuted in ways you could never understand. So yes I may appear to be harsh, but I am not nearly as harsh as these four horses and their riders are. I am simply raising the alarm bells. We need to get our spiritual houses in order, for death is on the way, and Hell follows after him!
"Therefore rejoice, you heavens, and you that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time." Rev. 12:12
In Christ,
Ariel
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