Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (Full Version)

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bluestone -> Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:18:18 AM)

I don't see any scriptural support for thenotion that a believer can be posessed. How can the Holy Spirit reside where demons fester?

I have heard stories of statues and a variety of objects being posessed. I don't see how or why demons would be in an inanimate object.

Please discuss.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:22:54 AM)

To believe that an inanimate object can be possessed opens up a plethora of supernatural happenings. I would think that possession requires cognizance. After all, there must be something there to possess. Wood and clay just do not seem to lend much to help demons. Inanimate objects themselves can do nothing to sway the beliefs of an individual, so what effect would controlling a block of wood have?



truthrevealed -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:24:46 AM)

Christians are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. I do not believe that Christians can be possessed by the devil. Can not there be "demonic activity" in certain places? Not in certain things/objects but in certain places?



Qtman -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:26:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

To believe that an inanimate object can be possessed opens up a plethora of supernatural happenings. I would think that possession requires cognizance. After all, there must be something there to possess. Wood and clay just do not seem to lend much to help demons. Inanimate objects themselves can do nothing to sway the beliefs of an individual, so what effect would controlling a block of wood have?



WesP you took the words right out of my .......uh. er. keyboard. I was about to ask what good would it do a demon to possess a table.

Although after re-reading some of my posts and seeing the errors in the typing I am beginning to believe my keyboard may very well be possessed.[:D]



semperfidelis -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:38:14 AM)

If a demon chose to do actions that make an object appear to be possessed by the demon, would it not be easiest to say that the object is possessed? If half the objects in a room are floating in the are and are not in your control at that point, semantics aside, those objects are possessed by someone or something else. It's a term agreed upon and understood by most of the world.

Speaking on behalf of friends who have dealt with this in reality:

You don't need to understand how or why a demon would be in or attached to an inanimate object. In reality, they probably would rather you not understand (or keep your understanding at a bookworm level) because then they can cause fear, confusion, or distract you from the truth and thereby lie to you. Unless we're dealing with a specific situation, we just need to know that at least the appearance of possession can occur.

As for believers -- maybe one won't be possessed, but that doesn't mean a believer won't be influenced by demons to the point of it looking like demonic possession. The biggest issue is whether a person can be saved without being filled with the Holy Spirit. If your theology is that a person can be saved but not yet be filled with the Holy Spirit, then it won't surprise you when you see certain things or hear certain stories. If your theology is that baptism of the Holy Spirit occurs at the same time as salvation and thus an infilling of the Holy Spirit, then you may be surprised when things happen that you cannot explain.

The best answer is "we don't know" because our logic can be wrong in interpreting the Bible (and I don't think there is a lot of point blank statements on this topic in the Bible) and our interpretation and/or appearances can deceive. On one side we may believe Satan has too much power, on the other side we may incorrectly judge someone as not being a Christian (we're not God!) and not understand the power that Satan does have.

My understanding best works as this: somewhere along the line, a human gave a spirit the authority on earth to do something. That doesn't mean it was right or wrong, just that they did. Without that giving of authority, they have no right to be here.



Kat_D -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:42:18 AM)

A Christian cannot have a demon living inside them. If the Holy Spirit dwells there, no demon can live there. The Bible teaches us that light and darkness cannot dwell together. It also teaches that we are new creations in Christ. We can choose to live like one or we can choose to remain in bondage to our old man, old life, and stupid beliefs (like we can have a demon living inside us).

There is a movement active today called the Deliverance Movement. They believe Christins can still have demons and spirits...that Christ didn't do enough on the Cross and receiving Him as Lord and Savior may not change that ...therefore you need this movement/church to set you free. That's how they stay in business...keeping people believing they are still in bondage to these things after they are saved.

17 "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." -II Corinthians 5

..."For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you* are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will dwell in them And walk among them. I will be their God, And they shall be My people." II Corinthians 6

8 "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light." -Ephesians 5

Why would a demon have to hide in a chair or a table? They're invisible aren't they?...And if so, they should be able to walk around freely and not have to take cover in Grandma's sideboard.

What a crock! Patooooooey![:'(][:'(]



Flintejae -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:45:20 AM)

Yes and Yes. Semper Fi said it well. :)



semperfidelis -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:48:23 AM)

quote:

We can choose to live like one or we can choose to remain in bondage to our old man, old life, and stupid beliefs (like we can have a demon living inside us).

So what if a Christian should turn at some point and choose to go back to bondage?

quote:

8 "For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light." -Ephesians 5

That last sentence is basically a command. If one must be commanded to do something, why else then that we "do what we do not want to do?"

quote:

Why would a demon have to hide in a chair or a table? They're invisible aren't they?...And if so, they should be able to walk around freely and not have to take cover in Grandma's sideboard.

If a demon can accomplish putting fear into an unwitting person, why not? Hide? Not at all. Deceive? Yes.

quote:

They believe Christins can still have demons and spirits...that Christ didn't do enough on the Cross and receiving Him as Lord and Savior may not change that ...therefore you need this movement/church to set you free. That's how they stay in business...keeping people believing they are still in bondage to these things after they are saved.

I haven't heard of this group, but they don't need people to stay in bondage. There are enough already. Go volunteer in a 12 step program and find out just how many people with problems are born again believers in our churches with massive problems -- some of which lead to bondage and open doors to the demonic.



semperfidelis -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 11:51:56 AM)

If a demon is invisible, for lack of a better term, perhaps the possessed object is merely being controlled externally by the invisible demon which we cannot see. Since we cannot see where the demon is, perhaps the demon is inside. We don't know. The Bible doesn't talk about it. It is only talked about in the Bible in reference to a few people and a herd of pigs.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 12:00:51 PM)

How many people have seen the movie Christine? Scary!!! [sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]



Kat_D -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 12:16:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

How many people have seen the movie Christine? Scary!!! [sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]


Yeah! Hell hath no fury like a Plymouth Fury scorned![sm=icon_smile_yikes.gif]



earthless -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 12:58:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: semperfidelis

quote:

We can choose to live like one or we can choose to remain in bondage to our old man, old life, and stupid beliefs (like we can have a demon living inside us).

So what if a Christian should turn at some point and choose to go back to bondage?



Then that person was never a born-again believer. We may fall on board (sin/mess up) but a born-again believer cannot fall over board. Why? Because we are bought by the blood of Jesus, in Him, and nothing can take His out of His hand.

The Lord's trees are evergreen...



Flintejae -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:25:22 PM)

I think the word "Possession" is what throws people off. I'd rather use the word "attached".



DaveW -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:34:51 PM)

Posess as in own? No.

"Demonize" as in influence, perhaps.

Paul tells us the power behind idols is demons and idols are inanimate objects. (1Cor 10)

As to believers, I wish I could be so sure as you all are. I can't. This is a manufactured doctrine that requires a logical extension of some verses. As the bible was written from a different logical framework I suspect most manufactured doctrines. If it does not come out and directly say it, I cannot accept it as fact.

What we do have from the scriptures:

* demons are real
* they can inhabit (demonize) people and animals
* they can communicate via the host's speaking ability
* they are subject to the name of Jesus
* they become violent when they are forced to leave a host

So what happens to someone who is demonized BEFORE coming to faith? Do the demons just politely get up and leave? I see no case in scripture where they ever did that. To say a believer absolutely CANNOT have a demon lurking in them requires this to happen.



Kat_D -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:36:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Flintejae

I think the word "Possession" is what throws people off. I'd rather use the word "attached".


Possessed: The state of being dominated by

Attached: Being joined in close association, connected to

Please explain how being attached to a demon is somehow more acceptable for a Christian than being possessed by a demon.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:38:23 PM)

quote:

My understanding best works as this: somewhere along the line, a human gave a spirit the authority on earth to do something. That doesn't mean it was right or wrong, just that they did. Without that giving of authority, they have no right to be here.


Then what gives them the right to make inanimate objects dance around? We might as well accept Alice in Wonderland as fact and buy us some oversized playing cards. [sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]



solarflare -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:40:28 PM)

This topic is already being discussed in another thread and has been for awhile now ...........Christian Doctrine ........ but I guess the attachment of an inanimate object will throw even more confusion into an already over-burdened and misunderstood topic.

POSSESSION may be 9/10's of the law, but not applicable to Biblical "law"

The word, according to the original Greek, would best be translated
'demonized', which is not the same as possessed.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 1:49:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

This topic is already being discussed in another thread and has been for awhile now ...........Christian Doctrine ........ but I guess the attachment of an inanimate object will throw even more confusion into an already over-burdened and misunderstood topic.

POSSESSION may be 9/10's of the law, but not applicable to Biblical "law"

The word, according to the original Greek, would best be translated
'demonized', which is not the same as possessed.


Mayhap, you could clarify this issue for the ignorant peoples here?!! Hmmm? I am not sure where you are heading with this declaration, but you obviously have the truth of it since you stated that it is trite and misunderstood.



Bridgitt -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:01:42 PM)

A christian cannot be possessed by demons. However he can be influenced or tempted by them.



Kat_D -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:03:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgitt

A christian cannot be possessed by demons. However he can be influenced or tempted by them.

Back to "the devil made me do it" argument.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kat_D

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bridgitt

A christian cannot be possessed by demons. However he can be influenced or tempted by them.

Back to "the devil made me do it" argument.


[sm=icon_smile_idea.gif]

[sm=smilecrossbone.gif]

[sm=icon_smile_evil.gif]

[sm=Llol.gif]



solarflare -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:10:01 PM)

quote:

Mayhap, you could clarify this issue for the ignorant peoples here?!! Hmmm? I am not sure where you are heading with this declaration, but you obviously have the truth of it since you stated that it is trite and misunderstood.


It does not sound to me like you really mean what you said here. I could clarify it, but if you research it, so can you. Of course, you must begin your research with no premise as you have already bespoken ignorance of the subject on your part.

An unfortunate and regrettable occurrence on these threads is the stance taken by some that if anyone disagrees with their posturing and overbearing remarks, that person must immediatley be rebuked with sarcasm and actual misquotes as to what they really said.

Case in point: I never used the word trite and you have proven what I did say about misunderstanding.

Where am I going with this? Simply pointing out another very similar thread is already ongoing and perhaps if people possessed a genuine interest in the subject, they could reference that for further discussion. I had no idea that that observation on my part would present itself for ridicule and misunderstanding.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:13:04 PM)

quote:

Case in point: I never used the word trite and you have proven what I did say about misunderstanding.


I was not quoting you, Holmes! Look up the definition for trite and see if it is a comparable word for what you said. It seems to fit to me. Pardon me ignorance, Professor.



WesP -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:15:25 PM)

quote:

I had no idea that that observation on my part would present itself for ridicule and misunderstanding.


Just for the record, I was not ridiculing you. You came in like Mr. Knowledgeable and told us how ignorant people are. I asked for more than a declaration of general misunderstanding and over-burdennessessessessessess. Thanks!



solarflare -> RE: Can a demon posess a Christian or an inanimate object? (7/17/2008 2:17:57 PM)

quote:

Thanks!


Well, in that case, even though I know you are being sarcastic and in denial about it, you are welcome. Is there something wrong with being a professor, or teacher, or experienced and knowledgable?

You have managed, again, to misquote me: Where did I state how ignorant people are? And must you prove it?



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