I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but...

I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (Full Version)

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StephenJ -> I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/16/2008 9:05:00 PM)
Does not like many things about the church. This person has seen alot of hypocricy, greed, legalism and outright dishonesty in her past church experiences. Does anyone know any ways for me to encourage this person and help them see that not all of Christianity is like that?

VJDTropical -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 12:14:44 AM)
I've had bad experiences with my father concerning this matter ... he often prayed very loudly and extremely and really annoyed me ... my mother and him taked ( still take ) the Lord's name in vain ... partially affected my walk with God but not fully ... I concentrated on God and even found some true good Bible believing Christians ... maybe being surrounded by the opposite of " hypocricy, greed, legalism and outright dishonesty " in people ( Christians in particurlar ) may help and she must know that not every Christian is a true Christian and that those whom are bad or whom do not follow are everywhere and in every area ... I would say to pray for her Salvation and good relationships but then again I'm only a teenager but I hope that I helped

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 12:45:28 AM)
I was like this before I got saved. I personally wouldn't emphasize church a whole lot, but rather would focus on Christ. Point her to Jesus - after all it is Jesus who draws. Try to keep your own walk full of integrity and if you make a mistake, just admit it. Don't sugar coat anything or lie to her or attempt to spin the church to make it look good. Don't bash the church either - instead talk more about your personal relationship with Christ and lift Him up. If she is open to the bible, you can spend some time sharing from the scriptures with her. The biggest impact that you'll have on her will probably be your own walk and the way in which you relate to her. If you have some good Christian friends who have a strong walk, you might want to invite her to do things with all of you as a group as well. Pray that God will bring godly women to befriend her as well. But above all, take your cues from God and pray, pray, pray for her.

slushie -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 8:48:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rgod The biggest impact that you'll have on her will probably be your own walk and the way in which you relate to her. If you have some good Christian friends who have a strong walk, you might want to invite her to do things with all of you as a group as well. Pray that God will bring godly women to befriend her as well. But above all, take your cues from God and pray, pray, pray for her. Right on!

manda59 -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 8:57:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StephenJ Does not like many things about the church. This person has seen alot of hypocricy, greed, legalism and outright dishonesty in her past church experiences. Does anyone know any ways for me to encourage this person and help them see that not all of Christianity is like that? Stephen It's an excuse. If someone is really being drawn to Christ, He is the only one that will matter, not other people. The Church is full of fallen image-bearers who are saved but not perfect yet. There may also be wolves in sheep's clothing. She needs to leave them for God to deal with, and focus on where she is with Him, not what they might be doing. When someone says to me that the Church is full of hypocrites or whatever, I look them in the eye and say "well, there's room for plenty more". None of us are that great, saved or unsaved.

jaimestarcross -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 11:01:39 AM)
You can also point out the same excuses she used for not attending church - those same things are common outside the church - and if you've noticed, those in the world haven't let hypocrisy, greed, legalism and outright dishonesty keep them from getting to know others, having business dealings and or relationships with people who exhibit those kind of characteristics/practices (sooner or later.) *Personal faith and commitment to the Lord will help her(and anyone who comes to the Lord for salvation) to be able to navigate through the rough waters in life and with dealings with difficult people. Forgiveness and continued spiritual growth and trust in Christ are keys to righteousness... then we will see changes/decreases in the patterns of hypocrisy, greed, legalism and dishonesty in people.

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/17/2008 10:17:00 PM)
quote: It's an excuse. If someone is really being drawn to Christ, He is the only one that will matter, not other people. The Church is full of fallen image-bearers who are saved but not perfect yet. There may also be wolves in sheep's clothing. She needs to leave them for God to deal with, and focus on where she is with Him, not what they might be doing. When someone says to me that the Church is full of hypocrites or whatever, I look them in the eye and say "well, there's room for plenty more". None of us are that great, saved or unsaved. Manda - I understand your point - that everyone is a hypocrite. But I have to tell you I was so disturbed when you said that you responded to people who complained about hypocrites in the church by saying "well there's room for plenty more." I pray that you'll reconsider that response and the way that you look at people who say this. Here's why: First, there are people who have legitimately been hurt in church. Right now, I can think of a friend who was repeatedly abused by a deacon in her church. She told people about it (her parents, the church leadership, etc.) and they didn't believe her. In fact, they made her out to be the bad guy - in front of the WHOLE congregation. It was extremely difficult for her to move past all of this - and if she hadn't already been saved before all of this happened to her, I don't know if she would have been able to. Stuff like that happens more often than one would think. We hear a lot about the catholic priests - but don't think it doesn't happen in protestant churches too. More commonly, a lot of people grow up in homes where mom and dad went to church and praised God, then came home and tore into each other and the children. Sunday Christians. So the kids learned that the Church was filled with hypocrites. I don't know if you grew up in church or if you were saved from a small child or teenager. I wasn't. My family wasn't anti-christian - we weren't struggling to stay away from church - we just never really thought about it because no one was saved. I always wanted God - but didn't have any conviction that Jesus was God - I felt that He was one of many. But in going to school, watching television, talking to friends, there was this pervasive feeling about christians being hypocrites, insincere, and not too swift. It is like there is a huge PR campaign run by satan himself. And unfortunately, it really isn't that uncommon to see pastors or other leaders fall in disgrace over some sin that they've beat other people up about. While this happens in the world a lot as well, it can still be disconcerting because the perception in the world is that if a person claims to be a Christian, then there should be some sort of difference in their walk - and you know - I think that they are right to expect that - there should be something different about us and that thing should be Jesus. (I'm not saying we need to be perfect, but eventually something should show.) My positive feelings about church became neutral and finally turned to contempt. Now, I grew up in the era of PTL and Jimmy Swaggart. Embezzling, cheating, lying. I grew up seeing old pictures of "christians" bombing the churches of other christians because of the color of their skin - or bombing abortion clinics. So, I didn't like the idea of Christ because He seemed so violent, narrow, and judgemental. But I wanted to know God and I was sincere in that (and a lot of people are like that - I wasn't an anomaly by any means). However when I started to really see who Christ really was (actually I learned from a miniseries on TV - "Jesus of Nazareth" - remember when you could see biblical dramas on TV?) and when I ran into Christians who lived the life for real I was impressed with that. And it made me pay attention. And as they lifted up Jesus - not always perfectly - but sincerely - it was the love of Christ and the attractiveness of Jesus that drew me. So I urge you, if you are really giving people that one liner and aren't joking - I beg you to please consider that there are people who aren't just trying to "make excuses." Consider assuming that the person might be speaking out of a place of hurt, or sincere doubts based on what they've seen and heard. Still, a lot of people want God and will eventually listen to you if they see that your life is different. They need to see compassion and love from us - it makes such a difference. And trust me if you lift up Jesus - and you attempt walk consistently (not perfectly, but just be real with people) - Jesus can draw them through you. In the beginning they might war against you, try to offend you, try to hurt you - but as you walk with Christ, usually they will respect you and by extension Christ - and this is really the whole point - for them to come to know Christ. In the end they might not get saved, but it will still be a seed that has been planted that might blossom down the road.

preserved -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/18/2008 5:38:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rgod quote: It's an excuse. If someone is really being drawn to Christ, He is the only one that will matter, not other people. The Church is full of fallen image-bearers who are saved but not perfect yet. There may also be wolves in sheep's clothing. She needs to leave them for God to deal with, and focus on where she is with Him, not what they might be doing. When someone says to me that the Church is full of hypocrites or whatever, I look them in the eye and say "well, there's room for plenty more". None of us are that great, saved or unsaved. Manda - I understand your point - that everyone is a hypocrite. But I have to tell you I was so disturbed when you said that you responded to people who complained about hypocrites in the church by saying "well there's room for plenty more." I pray that you'll reconsider that response and the way that you look at people who say this. Here's why: First, there are people who have legitimately been hurt in church. Right now, I can think of a friend who was repeatedly abused by a deacon in her church. She told people about it (her parents, the church leadership, etc.) and they didn't believe her. In fact, they made her out to be the bad guy - in front of the WHOLE congregation. It was extremely difficult for her to move past all of this - and if she hadn't already been saved before all of this happened to her, I don't know if she would have been able to. Stuff like that happens more often than one would think. We hear a lot about the catholic priests - but don't think it doesn't happen in protestant churches too. More commonly, a lot of people grow up in homes where mom and dad went to church and praised God, then came home and tore into each other and the children. Sunday Christians. So the kids learned that the Church was filled with hypocrites. I don't know if you grew up in church or if you were saved from a small child or teenager. I wasn't. My family wasn't anti-christian - we weren't struggling to stay away from church - we just never really thought about it because no one was saved. I always wanted God - but didn't have any conviction that Jesus was God - I felt that He was one of many. But in going to school, watching television, talking to friends, there was this pervasive feeling about christians being hypocrites, insincere, and not too swift. It is like there is a huge PR campaign run by satan himself. And unfortunately, it really isn't that uncommon to see pastors or other leaders fall in disgrace over some sin that they've beat other people up about. While this happens in the world a lot as well, it can still be disconcerting because the perception in the world is that if a person claims to be a Christian, then there should be some sort of difference in their walk - and you know - I think that they are right to expect that - there should be something different about us and that thing should be Jesus. (I'm not saying we need to be perfect, but eventually something should show.) My positive feelings about church became neutral and finally turned to contempt. Now, I grew up in the era of PTL and Jimmy Swaggart. Embezzling, cheating, lying. I grew up seeing old pictures of "christians" bombing the churches of other christians because of the color of their skin - or bombing abortion clinics. So, I didn't like the idea of Christ because He seemed so violent, narrow, and judgemental. But I wanted to know God and I was sincere in that (and a lot of people are like that - I wasn't an anomaly by any means). However when I started to really see who Christ really was (actually I learned from a miniseries on TV - "Jesus of Nazareth" - remember when you could see biblical dramas on TV?) and when I ran into Christians who lived the life for real I was impressed with that. And it made me pay attention. And as they lifted up Jesus - not always perfectly - but sincerely - it was the love of Christ and the attractiveness of Jesus that drew me. So I urge you, if you are really giving people that one liner and aren't joking - I beg you to please consider that there are people who aren't just trying to "make excuses." Consider assuming that the person might be speaking out of a place of hurt, or sincere doubts based on what they've seen and heard. Still, a lot of people want God and will eventually listen to you if they see that your life is different. They need to see compassion and love from us - it makes such a difference. And trust me if you lift up Jesus - and you attempt walk consistently (not perfectly, but just be real with people) - Jesus can draw them through you. In the beginning they might war against you, try to offend you, try to hurt you - but as you walk with Christ, usually they will respect you and by extension Christ - and this is really the whole point - for them to come to know Christ. In the end they might not get saved, but it will still be a seed that has been planted that might blossom down the road. rgod...I did not find manda59 comment offensive...So many people do make excuses about churches..Christ is the head of the church...the things that people do and say and act in the churches maynot be truly led by God...This other person that the op is referring to does not want to see anything beyond what they have already seen...Those are the most difficult people to witness to...Prayer and showing the way can helpt... rgod..in the case of your friend...did she remain in the church? The key word you indicated here is "repeatly" how many time did she allow this deacon to abuse her...think about it...hard to convince others if one allows to be continuously abuse..I am not saying that it was not true...but did she speak up when it first occured??

manda59 -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/18/2008 7:56:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rgod First, there are people who have legitimately been hurt in church. Absolutely, and I'm one of them. quote: So the kids learned that the Church was filled with hypocrites. It is. All of us are at some time or another. The call on us is to try and make sure we're not, not point the finger at what we think other people are. quote: I don't know if you grew up in church or if you were saved from a small child or teenager. My late father was an atheist, my mother is agnostic. I was saved through the outreach work of an evangelical church when I was 17. quote: So I urge you, if you are really giving people that one liner and aren't joking - I beg you to please consider that there are people who aren't just trying to "make excuses." If someone is truly seeking Christ, then their focus would be on Him, and the difference He could make in their lives, it wouldn't be on looking at other people and judging them.

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/18/2008 8:02:22 PM)
quote: rgod...I did not find manda59 comment offensive...So many people do make excuses about churches..Christ is the head of the church...the things that people do and say and act in the churches maynot be truly led by God...This other person that the op is referring to does not want to see anything beyond what they have already seen...Those are the most difficult people to witness to...Prayer and showing the way can helpt... rgod..in the case of your friend...did she remain in the church? The key word you indicated here is "repeatly" how many time did she allow this deacon to abuse her...think about it...hard to convince others if one allows to be continuously abuse..I am not saying that it was not true...but did she speak up when it first occured?? Hi preserved! Perhaps our experiences are different, but in my experience as a person who didn't grow up in church, wasn't saved until she was an adult, and had lots and lots of unsaved friends - what I have found is that people who are not "in the church" often don't really think about church all that much or even know about it. And if they do, they are often informed by popular opinion which is often biased against christians. (When was the last time you saw a secular movie that showed Christians in a positive light? Now, think of the times that you've seen Christians in a negative line in the secular media? For most people - the second list is easier to come up with.). There are lots of people who want God, but don't equate God with church because there is a pervasive negative message about the church and christians. So all I am saying is, if a person talks about the church in a way that is unflattering - but instead of trying to really address that - we come back with an answer that can be viewed as being a bit flippant is not helping matters at all. Instead, if we assume (unless we are shown otherwise) that the person is truly misguided about church, and we take the time to show them Jesus, love and the truth trumps the lies that are being told about the church. In the case of my friend, the abuse happened when she was a child and continued until she was a young teenager. At the time that she was talking about it - it was still very difficult for her - so it was not proper for me to get the number of times that she had been abused. She spoke up when it happened - to her mom first, and then eventually to the leadership. But no one believed her because the prevailing notion at the time was that "children lie." So she was made out to be the bad guy - and still had to attend his classes. No, she didn't "allow" the deacon to do anything to her - he just did it - he overpowered her. Kids don't allow abuse - someone more powerful does it to them. Think of it this way - if you had a seven year old daughter and some person sexually abused her - would you think it was her fault? Would you blame her or think that she allowed it? Maybe her underoos were showing? (I have no idea what kids wear today - I'm just using an example.) At that time as well - child abuse was still a shameful, hidden secret. To a kid, adults are often all powerful - and kids also blame themselves so often when they are abused. They think that they did something wrong or that they are dirty or did something shameful - when they weren't doing anything but being a kid. All I'm saying here is that a lot happens in the church - we are comfortable with the fact that it happens in catholic churches with the spate of priest child molestation cases. However, the same kinds of things happen in the protestant churches too - and often people take the side of the adult - as horrible as it may seem. She left that church when she moved away to go to college - it was very legalistic and they taught her that if she left that denomination that she would go to hell. It took a long time for her to get the bad teaching out of her - but she was exposed to the Word of God at another church and now she is free - praise God! The main reason that I responded is because often, when people have been in church for a while - or for their whole lives - sometimes they forget about what it is like to be outside of the church (if they ever knew in the first place). The people who are not in church are not our enemies - satan is. I'm not trying to bash anyone or be cantakerous - I wish that you could hear my heart on this. But so often, the very people who seem to be hard-boiled when it comes to church or to Christ - can be reached if we just take the time to be patient and loving with them. Or at the very least, we can try to avoid doing things that would repel them - so that another person who has a heart for lost people can come in a minister to them. Again, I might have greater sensitivity about this because this is how I was - but if by me writing this it will be helpful to the next lost person who comes across the path of anyone reading this thread - it was worth every word. Feel free to respond here or by PM if you want more clarification, or if I misunderstood something that you said. I'm not trying to fight, but to present a different view. rgod

Dakotasunbeam -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/19/2008 3:25:43 PM)
Excellent post! quote: ORIGINAL: rgod quote: rgod...I did not find manda59 comment offensive...So many people do make excuses about churches..Christ is the head of the church...the things that people do and say and act in the churches maynot be truly led by God...This other person that the op is referring to does not want to see anything beyond what they have already seen...Those are the most difficult people to witness to...Prayer and showing the way can helpt... rgod..in the case of your friend...did she remain in the church? The key word you indicated here is "repeatly" how many time did she allow this deacon to abuse her...think about it...hard to convince others if one allows to be continuously abuse..I am not saying that it was not true...but did she speak up when it first occured?? Hi preserved! Perhaps our experiences are different, but in my experience as a person who didn't grow up in church, wasn't saved until she was an adult, and had lots and lots of unsaved friends - what I have found is that people who are not "in the church" often don't really think about church all that much or even know about it. And if they do, they are often informed by popular opinion which is often biased against christians. (When was the last time you saw a secular movie that showed Christians in a positive light? Now, think of the times that you've seen Christians in a negative line in the secular media? For most people - the second list is easier to come up with.). There are lots of people who want God, but don't equate God with church because there is a pervasive negative message about the church and christians. So all I am saying is, if a person talks about the church in a way that is unflattering - but instead of trying to really address that - we come back with an answer that can be viewed as being a bit flippant is not helping matters at all. Instead, if we assume (unless we are shown otherwise) that the person is truly misguided about church, and we take the time to show them Jesus, love and the truth trumps the lies that are being told about the church. In the case of my friend, the abuse happened when she was a child and continued until she was a young teenager. At the time that she was talking about it - it was still very difficult for her - so it was not proper for me to get the number of times that she had been abused. She spoke up when it happened - to her mom first, and then eventually to the leadership. But no one believed her because the prevailing notion at the time was that "children lie." So she was made out to be the bad guy - and still had to attend his classes. No, she didn't "allow" the deacon to do anything to her - he just did it - he overpowered her. Kids don't allow abuse - someone more powerful does it to them. Think of it this way - if you had a seven year old daughter and some person sexually abused her - would you think it was her fault? Would you blame her or think that she allowed it? Maybe her underoos were showing? (I have no idea what kids wear today - I'm just using an example.) At that time as well - child abuse was still a shameful, hidden secret. To a kid, adults are often all powerful - and kids also blame themselves so often when they are abused. They think that they did something wrong or that they are dirty or did something shameful - when they weren't doing anything but being a kid. All I'm saying here is that a lot happens in the church - we are comfortable with the fact that it happens in catholic churches with the spate of priest child molestation cases. However, the same kinds of things happen in the protestant churches too - and often people take the side of the adult - as horrible as it may seem. She left that church when she moved away to go to college - it was very legalistic and they taught her that if she left that denomination that she would go to hell. It took a long time for her to get the bad teaching out of her - but she was exposed to the Word of God at another church and now she is free - praise God! The main reason that I responded is because often, when people have been in church for a while - or for their whole lives - sometimes they forget about what it is like to be outside of the church (if they ever knew in the first place). The people who are not in church are not our enemies - satan is. I'm not trying to bash anyone or be cantakerous - I wish that you could hear my heart on this. But so often, the very people who seem to be hard-boiled when it comes to church or to Christ - can be reached if we just take the time to be patient and loving with them. Or at the very least, we can try to avoid doing things that would repel them - so that another person who has a heart for lost people can come in a minister to them. Again, I might have greater sensitivity about this because this is how I was - but if by me writing this it will be helpful to the next lost person who comes across the path of anyone reading this thread - it was worth every word. Feel free to respond here or by PM if you want more clarification, or if I misunderstood something that you said. I'm not trying to fight, but to present a different view. rgod

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/19/2008 5:03:47 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: rgod First, there are people who have legitimately been hurt in church. Absolutely, and I'm one of them. quote: So the kids learned that the Church was filled with hypocrites. It is. All of us are at some time or another. The call on us is to try and make sure we're not, not point the finger at what we think other people are. quote: I don't know if you grew up in church or if you were saved from a small child or teenager. My late father was an atheist, my mother is agnostic. I was saved through the outreach work of an evangelical church when I was 17. quote: So I urge you, if you are really giving people that one liner and aren't joking - I beg you to please consider that there are people who aren't just trying to "make excuses." If someone is truly seeking Christ, then their focus would be on Him, and the difference He could make in their lives, it wouldn't be on looking at other people and judging them. Manda - thanks a lot for sharing some more information about yourself. I don't want to take the thread in a different direction - although I would love to hear sometime about what it was like for you growing up in a household with an aetheist father and agnostic mom. In my household, my mom and dad were open to Christ, but they weren't seeking him - and I didn't really know anything about him until I saw a tv miniseries. Did your parents ever become saved? I agree with you on your last point, except for the fact that sometimes people don't yet get to the point of looking only at Christ because they think they know him based on what they've heard and seen. And they do look at us to see the results of living a Christian life. Not always so much for materialistic things (though I'm sure some do look at those things), but often they watch our peace, love, kindness - the fruit of the Spirit. I guess my point (I'm long-winded so I'm sorry for the long posts) is just that sometimes people think that they've rejected Christ based on what they perceive about the church - legitimately (because they've been hurt or they've ingested the lies about the church that are pervasive in the media or other places) or not (its a smokescreen and they just don't want to change). So, sometimes asking a person "why do you think that the church is full of hypocrites?" can help to distinguish between someone who is sincere but misguided and someone who really is just making excuses. So many people are searching for God, but do not know Christ is the answer because they've been presented with a false Christ. I was thinking about this last night and today and am thinking that maybe this is part of planting the seed or watering (one plants, one waters, but God makes it grow). I find that in my life, I don't see a lot of conversions when I witness to people. Instead, I get the tough cases - the people who are closed to the very idea of God. Then somehow, through the Holy Spirit, they kind of "melt" and become open to the possibility that Jesus is who He says He is. Then I may hear from them later - they are saved and they then start asking me questions about how to walk with God. Or somehow I end up ministering to people who have been hurt. So much of how we see these issues are tied up in our own giftings and in the way God uses us. Perhaps my views are affected by my own background as well. This is the beauty of the body - that we all can witness in different ways at different times. Regardless, Christ Himself draws us as we seek Him - and yes, I do agree that once that is the case, we become a lot more focused on Christ and less on people. Thanks for entering into this discussion with me - and again I apologize for the long posts.

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/19/2008 5:05:40 PM)
quote: Excellent post! Thanks Dakotasunbeam - I'm trying, without success, to be more succinct. Thanks for the encouragement. Have a great weekend!!!! rgod

StephenJ -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/20/2008 4:09:43 AM)
Well for my friend here were some of the things she saw that she didn't like. -She saw church officials in back rooms counting large piles of money, and from her view it looked like some of them might have been taking some. She was very uncomfortable with it, and even mentioned the Bible passage about Jesus driving out the money changers. -She felt that her youth group had basically become a place where people hung out (and hooked up) rather than pursued God. -A friend of her's (a minor at the time) was doing some very unsaved things with a suppousedly Christian guy (who wasn't a minor.) The two of them were fooling around, but whenever the guy was around the girls parents he'd put on his Christian act. -She's met some really legalistic, strict Christians. -She also claims to have had a really disturbing vision like experience when someone at a certain church tried to baptize her. So those are the ones she told me about.

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/24/2008 10:50:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StephenJ Well for my friend here were some of the things she saw that she didn't like. -She saw church officials in back rooms counting large piles of money, and from her view it looked like some of them might have been taking some. She was very uncomfortable with it, and even mentioned the Bible passage about Jesus driving out the money changers. -She felt that her youth group had basically become a place where people hung out (and hooked up) rather than pursued God. -A friend of her's (a minor at the time) was doing some very unsaved things with a suppousedly Christian guy (who wasn't a minor.) The two of them were fooling around, but whenever the guy was around the girls parents he'd put on his Christian act. -She's met some really legalistic, strict Christians. -She also claims to have had a really disturbing vision like experience when someone at a certain church tried to baptize her. So those are the ones she told me about. Well, remember that often Satan tries to put stumbling blocks in the way - plants doubts in our minds - to keep us away from God. Perhaps he is doing this to her. But it sounds like she might be interested in Jesus, but seeing flaws (whether real or imagined) in the church. Look at her complaints: sexual immorality, legalism, the youth group that was a hookup spot, possible fraud in the church. She isn't railing against Jesus and the things that He said. She isn't saying that Jesus is not Lord. This is VERY significant. She seems so open, Stephen. (I could be wrong - but her complaints seem to indicate that she is hungering for truth.) Keep praying for her - and pray for godly women to surround her too. If she brings those concerns about church up to you, just tell her that while you can't really comment on it because you weren't there - you are sorry that she was hurt by those things. Let her know that there are some people with issues in church, but at the same time, there are also many godly people there as well. The thing that makes the difference is not church attendance, but Christ. Encourage her not to judge Jesus by what she has experienced, but instead, give Jesus a chance. Let her know how He changed you personally. Also let her know that Christians, like everyone else have to grow as well - grow in godliness, grow in Christ. We can't do it by ourselves, and so the most important thing is for her to know Jesus. Above all trust the Holy Spirit - He will guide you and give you the right things to say. I pray the best with you as you share Christ with this young lady. rgod

gaylel1 -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/25/2008 12:45:59 PM)
You know, there is a old saying and that is if you are finding the "perfect church, don't join it because you will ruin it." With that said, Christians do fail, they do make mistakes and there are many who you see in the body that you see in the public eye. Yes, that does give Christianity a black eye, however, there are good people who are out in the front lines who love Jesus and does not do bad things in the name of Christianity. You can point out people like the missionaries who gave their lives or people like Billy Graham or even Greg Laurie who are doing a lot of good in the body. Just tell your freind that we are human, we make mistakes but we are forgiven by God.

GrowinBaptist -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (7/25/2008 2:35:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rgod I was like this before I got saved. I personally wouldn't emphasize church a whole lot, but rather would focus on Christ. Point her to Jesus - after all it is Jesus who draws. Try to keep your own walk full of integrity and if you make a mistake, just admit it. Don't sugar coat anything or lie to her or attempt to spin the church to make it look good. Don't bash the church either - instead talk more about your personal relationship with Christ and lift Him up. If she is open to the bible, you can spend some time sharing from the scriptures with her. The biggest impact that you'll have on her will probably be your own walk and the way in which you relate to her. If you have some good Christian friends who have a strong walk, you might want to invite her to do things with all of you as a group as well. Pray that God will bring godly women to befriend her as well. But above all, take your cues from God and pray, pray, pray for her. Amen and amen! The world loves to point out the "hypocrisy" they see in believers. That's because they don't understand that it's not about being perfect...it's about being saved through faith in Christ. We will always come up against "believers" who are not practicing what they preach. (And everyone at some point slips...we all have our struggles and temptations.) Someone mentioned in another post that it sounds like your friend is searching for the Truth, and I agree. I think she really wants the Lord to be real for her, but she obviously has not had good examples of what it means to follow Christ. Rgod has it right on the money saying that you can be an excellent example along with introducing her to true believing friends. Make sure she knows that it's not about being perfect, though. We need to keep our eyes on Christ and not other people or our circumstances. People will always disappoint us no matter how strong their faith is, and life simply is not fair and never will be. But Christ will never be anything LESS than fair.

rgod -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (8/10/2008 3:16:53 PM)
StephenJ - how are things progressing with your friend? Just wondering if you could post an update.

StephenJ -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (8/10/2008 4:51:27 PM)
Well I invited her to a church function yesterday, but she had made plans already. I'm thinking of maybe inviting her to our Bible study.

jaimestarcross -> RE: I have a Friend who's still interested in Christianity but... (8/10/2008 11:31:42 PM)
quote: Well for my friend here were some of the things she saw that she didn't like. -She saw church officials in back rooms counting large piles of money, and from her view it looked like some of them might have been taking some. She was very uncomfortable with it, and even mentioned the Bible passage about Jesus driving out the money changers. Did she report what she thought she'd seen? There's accountability for monies a church collects from it's members/attendees... and the treasury or treasure is to be held accountable. -She felt that her youth group had basically become a place where people hung out (and hooked up) rather than pursued God. Again did she report or question the church minister/leaders about how the youth group was going off track and what would be done to resolve the matter? -A friend of her's (a minor at the time) was doing some very unsaved things with a suppousedly Christian guy (who wasn't a minor.) The two of them were fooling around, but whenever the guy was around the girls parents he'd put on his Christian act. Inappropriate behavior should be reported - and offenders should be monitored and disciplined if necessary. -She's met some really legalistic, strict Christians. She can find a good church and members who aren't like that ... it takes some effort on her part to seek out a good church....just like seeking out appropriate friendships when you are in the world. -She also claims to have had a really disturbing vision like experience when someone at a certain church tried to baptize her. *Was someone trying to baptize an unsaved person? from what I've read in your post - this friend isn't saved(is this correct?) She's seeking/curious?

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