RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (Full Version)

All Forums >> [General] >> Current Events



Message

blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:14:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?

We had been told repeatedly that there were no WMDs anywhere and no WMD program.

Is it possible that the country of Iraq, which was in a terrible state of disarray under Saddam, might have forgotten exactly what materials were involved in a program that had been shuttered for 15 years?



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:16:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?

We had been told repeatedly that there were no WMDs anywhere and no WMD program.

Is it possible that the country of Iraq, which was in a terrible state of disarray under Saddam, might have forgotten exactly what materials were involved in a program that had been shuttered for 15 years?


Absolutely. After all, I can remember nothing from my childhood. [8|]



blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:22:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?

We had been told repeatedly that there were no WMDs anywhere and no WMD program.

Is it possible that the country of Iraq, which was in a terrible state of disarray under Saddam, might have forgotten exactly what materials were involved in a program that had been shuttered for 15 years?


Absolutely. After all, I can remember nothing from my childhood. [8|]

Were you involved in any plays? In band? In sports? Can you name for me all of the people in those activities with a last name that starts with S?



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:24:57 AM)

quote:

Were you involved in any plays? In band? In sports? Can you name for me all of the people in those activities with a last name that starts with S?


This line of questioning is pointless. I can stop doing math for 40 years, but I promise I will still be able to subtract 4 from 10. There is also the consideration that they could write things down!



blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:26:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP
You know, I just do not feel comfortable with that statement. Iran did not acquire thousands of centrifuges to enrich yellowcake to 3.5%. Do you suppose Saddam would have acquired the same setup if it had been possible? I do. It would have happened in time.

You're probably right. But the facility the yellowcake was discovered in had been closed since before the 1991 Gulf War. In other words, Saddam had been seeking- and indeed acquired- WMDs before he signed an agreement with the UN. You have to remember than in the 1980s, two American presidents were both totally fine with helping Saddam get WMDs because they figured he would just use them on Iran.



Peter_Gunn -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:27:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?


Exactly!

I think this may all be part of attempting to re-write history...which, we know, is done often. They (The Left) first tried to convince us that there was nothing of harm in Iraq. Now that we're seeing otherwise, the next step is to attempt to convince us what is being found is harmless.

You buying what they're selling???



blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:30:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

This line of questioning is pointless. I can stop doing math for 40 years, but I promise I will still be able to subtract 4 from 10. There is also the consideration that they could write things down!

Yes, but do you remember what kind of calculator you used in math class 40 years ago? Or the numbers you added? It's easy to remember a process, but it's difficult to remember where you put things. (Ever forgotten where you put your cell phone?)

There's the consideration the Iraqis could write things down, but it honestly seems like the Iraqi government was already in a total state of disarray when we got there. Not even Saddam's generals knew, for example, that he didn't have WMDs when he convened a pre-war meeting with them to basically explain that the WMDs had been a ruse to keep Iran from invading.



blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:34:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Exactly!

I think this may all be part of attempting to re-write history...which, we know, is done often. They (The Left) first tried to convince us that there was nothing of harm in Iraq. Now that we're seeing otherwise, the next step is to attempt to convince us what is being found is harmless.

You buying what they're selling???

Ask any nuclear engineer if that yellowcake was dangerous in a post-Gulf I, pre-Gulf II Iraq, and they will say, "Assuming he didn't have a large building that the US could have identified as a nuclear reactor or enrichment plant and bombed," the answer is no.

In order to enrich yellowcake into U-235 to build the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, the US had to consume enough electricity to power the entire Northeast for two years back in the '40s.

Do you think Saddam even had that much electricity?



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 11:56:38 AM)

quote:

In order to enrich yellowcake into U-235 to build the bomb that destroyed Hiroshima, the US had to consume enough electricity to power the entire Northeast for two years back in the '40s.

Do you think Saddam even had that much electricity?


Not sure. Doesn't matter either. You are making assumptions left and right just to refute the possibility of anything presented. I am not saying anything was definite. I am just saying what could or would have been possible. At any rate, it is all conjecture, and refutation of possibility based on assumed probability will net us no gain.



rlj -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 12:22:24 PM)

quote:

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?


Go ask his Excellency.

Let me add that his Excellency hasn't made an issue of this, the Pentagon hasn't, Cheney hasn't, Karl Rove hasn't and lastly Colin Powell he considers the Yellow Cake from Nigeria argument a stain on his service record hasn't. What do they know that you don't that they aren't saying anything about this?



blessedinnyc -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 12:50:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj
What do they know that you don't that they aren't saying anything about this?

I wonder which country Iraq bought this 1980s-vintage yellowcake from. It wasn't the USSR- I believe that Iraq was more aligned with the NATO powers at the time.



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 1:04:05 PM)

Can we get back on topic and stop rehashing old arguements.

In my last post, I was trying to illustrate the total lack of logic and credibility, in going to war with Pakistan, in light of all the criticism, that those who now seem to be advocating such action, have been leveling against President Bush almost from day 1.

We've had far more reasons for invading Iraq than we ever will for invading Pakistan.

Bin Laden, at this point, is nothing more that a ralling point for his terrorist network. He is also a ralling point for those who insist that present day terrorism is nothing more than a criminal act and can not, in any way, be seen as a form of warfare by a global network of terrorist groups that hold a common ideology. The time to stop him, take him out, hold him accountable, and deal a serious, meaningful blow to his network was before 911.

I did not intend to stir this discussion so far off topic.



cow451 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 2:40:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: djv1255

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj
At least we can finnally put all those troops that were in Iraq chasing around all of those non-existant WMD's to the work of actually fighting bin Laden and his cohorts.

Few American newspaper readers learned that on Saturday the last of 550 metric tons of yellowcake was shipped from Iraq to a firm in Canada. Yellowcake is milled uranium oxide, the raw material from which nuclear bombs are made. According to Norman Dombey, professor of theoretical physics at the University of Sussex in England, the yellowcake shipped from Iraq was enough to make 142 nuclear bombs.


That's old news, the gov't has been working on that for several years. Saddam had zero capacity to do anything with it but sit on it. It actually became a problem when Iraq collapsed into civil war. That's why you saw no administration chest-thumping when it was moved. IOW the death throes of the WMD's-in-Iraq theory. Now, how about getting back on topic.



cow451 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 2:48:07 PM)

Obama is both right and wrong. Yes, Pakistan is a weak sister in the war. It's more obvious than ever. The NATO/US forces near the border have been catching it from the Taliban based in our staunch ally's territory. So, one can make a case for bringing the fight to them. But that argument runs up against the law of unintended consequences.

Recall how US and South Vietnamese incursions into Laos and Cambodia affected the war. Pakistan is a shaky country just two skips from civil war. Talk of unilateral (or with NATO) going into Pakistan is the same reckless blabber we have seen with the current President and his talk of "military options" with Iran. It may boil down to a war of containment with the Taliban. If they can be bottled up in that God-forsaken region along the border, then I would say hunker down for a generation.



relady -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 3:10:43 PM)

quote:

That's old news, the gov't has been working on that for several years. Saddam had zero capacity to do anything with it but sit on it. It actually became a problem when Iraq collapsed into civil war. That's why you saw no administration chest-thumping when it was moved. IOW the death throes of the WMD's-in-Iraq theory. Now, how about getting back on topic.
Kind of what I thought, too. Even the article links posted didn't make it sound like it was some new discovery, but just the culmination of what we already knew. WMDs didn't exist in Iraq, we had no reason to invade Iraq and we need get out as soon as reasonably possible.



rlj -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 5:52:52 PM)

quote:

Recall how US and South Vietnamese incursions into Laos and Cambodia affected the war. Pakistan is a shaky country just two skips from civil war. Talk of unilateral (or with NATO) going into Pakistan is the same reckless blabber we have seen with the current President and his talk of "military options" with Iran. It may boil down to a war of containment with the Taliban. If they can be bottled up in that God-forsaken region along the border, then I would say hunker down for a generation.


You also forgot that Pakistan does have nuclear weapons and that the people of Pakistan aren't big fans of America or the War on Terror.



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 8:04:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rlj

quote:

Recall how US and South Vietnamese incursions into Laos and Cambodia affected the war. Pakistan is a shaky country just two skips from civil war. Talk of unilateral (or with NATO) going into Pakistan is the same reckless blabber we have seen with the current President and his talk of "military options" with Iran. It may boil down to a war of containment with the Taliban. If they can be bottled up in that God-forsaken region along the border, then I would say hunker down for a generation.


You also forgot that Pakistan does have nuclear weapons and that the people of Pakistan aren't big fans of America or the War on Terror.


I remember those facts! It would not be pretty. That could usher in a multinational disaster.



wing2000 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/17/2008 8:13:44 PM)

quote:

US forces should be ready to cross into Pakistan without permission


...I would be surprised if US forces (covert ops) are not already in Pakistan....



TaoPoohBear -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 10:10:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?

I'd like to see what news source you're getting that from, or are you "interpreting" the info from the CIA leak investigation as - "there never was any yellowcake ever at any time in Iraq"?

In so far as keeping it quiet - The Newsweek link posted earlier explains it pretty well.
quote:

"Everyone is very happy to have this safely out of Iraq," said a senior U.S. official who outlined the nearly three-month operation to The Associated Press. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject.

"We are pleased ... that we have taken (the yellowcake) from a volatile region into a stable area to produce clean electricity."

The deal culminated more than a year of intense diplomatic and military initiatives — kept hushed in fear of ambushes or attacks once the convoys were under way.


See my previous post (#19) with quotes from the same article about Saddam's reactor program.

There was no WMD in Iraq when we invaded, it was a bluff (and a miscalculation!) by Saddam to threaten his neighbors. Period.



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 10:14:35 AM)

quote:

I'd like to see what news source you're getting that from, or are you "interpreting" the info from the CIA leak investigation as - "there never was any yellowcake ever at any time in Iraq"?


Thanks for insinuating that I am a liar. Go back and look at the newspapers, etc. from when the war started and the months afterward.



TaoPoohBear -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 10:38:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

I'd like to see what news source you're getting that from, or are you "interpreting" the info from the CIA leak investigation as - "there never was any yellowcake ever at any time in Iraq"?


Thanks for insinuating that I am a liar. Go back and look at the newspapers, etc. from when the war started and the months afterward.

I would submit your statement - "But we have been told repeatedly that no yellowcake existed anywhere. Period. Why the lie?"
Is at best uninformed.
The U.S. Government never said anything like that, and newspaper reports of "no WMD found" does not mean "No yellowcake found", processed or otherwise.

So again - Are you saying that Joe Wilson's 2003 statements about Iraqi attempts to acquire yellowcake were so broad as to include what was in Iraq before the 1st Iraq war? That would be a false interpretation of what he said and what was reported.

I know of no other definitive statements about "no yellowcake existed" except those in reference to Wilson's statement.

You are not a liar, just sadly misled.



WesP -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 10:48:41 AM)

quote:

You are not a liar, just sadly misled.


Thanks. Just pray for my ignorance to be cured, if you will.



davemiller7 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 4:03:33 PM)

Apparently, yellow cake existed in Iraq possibly as early as 1981.
http://www.slate.com/id/2146475/
http://www.slate.com/id/2103795/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowcake_forgery
http://www.americanthinker.com/2004/07/the_un_altuwaitha_and_nukes_1.html

-Dave



Leon_Figg3 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 4:15:58 PM)

Why are we still talking about "yellow cake" and all that led to the conflict in Iraq?

Why are we not talking about this plan by "he who walks on water" to invade a friendly country, and how we have less of a reason to invade that country than we ever had, with Iraq, no matter how you have chosen to look at it?

Why are we not discussing the cost (in dollars and bodies) that such action (a massive man-hunt for 1 man) will be required, not to mention all the national and international ramifications that will be caused/ triggered by such action?



djv1255 -> RE: Obama to invade Pakistan (7/18/2008 4:29:30 PM)

I like the non-USA comments to the London Times story about Obama and Pakistan called "Barak Obama: we will lead, not alienate the World".

"What a jerk" would be one of the nicer comments.



Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI