DH and I are butting heads (Full Version)

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PatricksPeaches -> DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 4:40:30 PM)

I have been home schooling my 7 yo dd for all of this year. We are schooling in the summer too. Lately my DH and I have been butting heads because he thinks that it should be done at a regular time and schedule. I don't put too much emphasis on that. I just get it done when we can. I think his major worry about this is that it won't teach her how to follow schedules and such when she is older if I don't do it now. I try to tell him that is not necessarily true. If we have appointments to go to, we are always on time. When she was in softball, she was always there and on time. How can I get my point across in a way that he would understand? Should I even be concerned about this? Any thoughts? Suggestions?



PrincessDonna -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 5:47:14 PM)

How many adults still live on a school schedule? Probably mostly those who work at a school, or those who purposely work their schedule around their kids' school schedule. Many people work 2nd or 3rd shifts. Some people work weekends, some don't. There really is not a need to limit schooling to certain times or days...that is one of the biggest pluses of hsing! (Believe me, I know...the lack of flexibility is the thing I HATE the most now that our oldest is in Christian school!)

Maybe if you can focus on the positives of learning to be flexible as an child and how that can transfer over to life as an adult, that would help? Since you have commitments and make sure to be prompt to those, she's also learning that it's important to be punctual and to do what you say you will do.



cindybode -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 7:55:34 PM)

So according to your husband's reasoning I should have been made to stay up all night as a teen, because I work nights now. How on earth did I figure out how to do that? And I bet that if your husband had to change his work schedule, he'd figure it out. It just doesn't make sense when you think about it.



Sideways -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 8:30:27 PM)

My BIL is now working Mon-Fri, but he used to work Thursday-Monday, with the middle of the week off. A friend of mine works two 12 hour night shifts as a nurse. Lots of folks work at home; lots of folks work flexible hours.

Would it help to show your husband the progress she has made, the things she is learning? Sometimes, I think dads might get worried that a child's education will slip, if they aren't kept on a regular schedule, with Math, Science and English all being done for an hour a day, 4 days a week, or whatever.... Maybe he's concerned that without a schedule things will get missed?

My point is, would he feel better about his daughter's education if you involved him more in the projects she's doing, the things areas she is working on?

I think it's normal and good for a father to be concerned about the quality of their kids' education, but for you it's personal, because you are her teacher. Continue talking to him, and see if there might be something more going on beneath the surface then just differences over scheduling. Involve dad as much as you can, and compromise if *gasp* dad actually has some good ideas about how to make your HS better.

I really find homeschooling fascinating, in a good way. But from an outsider's perspective, it sometimes seems like the opinion of fathers are shunted to the wayside sometimes. They aren't home, so they don't "count". I say this not as an accusation, just a view of someone on the outside looking in.



PrincessDonna -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 8:34:48 PM)

quote:

I think it's normal and good for a father to be concerned about the quality of their kids' education,


I agree!

Do you keep a log of everything you do for school? When my oldest was home, I had a cheapo student planner from Walmart that I wrote each day's work in, whether a workbook page, a hands on activity, or an educational video/show. Maybe something like that would be good for your husband to be able to look at, to have more of an idea of what you are doing, even if it's not done at specific times?



Jenny-Fair -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/14/2008 8:41:29 PM)

Would your DH read a book if you asked him to? I am thinking specifically of the book Real-Life Homeschooling, which is the story of a couple dozen families who all homeschool differently.

For me, flexibility is one of the reasons we HS. I jokingly call us fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants-Homeschoolers. But I can see why your DH is concerned that your children won't learn to live according to the world's rules.

Perhaps a compromise is in order? Certainly you do need a routine, which is not the same as a schedule. Perhaps keeping a routine written down (and this is not just school, but your day-to-day life) would satisfy him.



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/15/2008 10:33:22 PM)

I do keep a lesson planner! If you want to call it that. I write down everyday what lesson we did in which subject. I also keep track of the number of days we actually did school. We are at 130 right now. So we will have hopefully around 170 days for second grade by the end of August. I think that is about right and average for even public schools. I just ordered our third grade package today and can't wait to actually pick it up. My DH doesn't read much. I have tried to show him things and he just doesn't seem to have any interest. He is just looking at it in a worldly way I think. As I look at it as to what would please the Lord more. I feel that God wants us to home school and I do not want to give it up just because someone (DH) doesn't understand and doesn't want to take the time to understand. I am just getting fed up with the comments about it.



PrincessDonna -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 9:51:30 AM)

The thing is...he is the parent too, not to mention your husband, which the Bible says is one flesh with you. Are you going to come to complete agreement? Maybe not, but it's something to work toward. Just because you don't agree is not a reason to brush his opinions aside.

Can you sit down with him and have a sane, non-emotional conversation about WHY he wants to see more routine in your day? Surely there is a middle ground here that you can agree on and move forward without the constant conflict?



cynthia -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 1:29:11 PM)

First of all, you asked how to get your point across to your husband. It appears that you have gotten your point across, but it seems to me, from reading your post, that he is having trouble getting his point across to you. If I understand correctly, your husband is concerned that academics is not a priority for you.

Based on what you have written in this thread, it appears that you are using some kind of curriculum that comes all together, maybe Abeka or something like that. It doesn’t appear that you have an unschooling type of lifestyle, but you are using a particular curriculum and fitting those studies in as you have time.

I understand that there are many ways to homeschool and how it is accomplished will vary from family to family. It would be frustrating if your husband were to insist on a certain way if you don’t think he really understands homeschooling and if your educational philosophies are different, especially if he is insisting on a certain thing when he isn’t even trying to learn more about homeschooling and education. However, if what he is really concerned about is not about learning how to live on a schedule, but about placing priority on teaching academics, rather than fitting it into the other things you are doing. Not that you can’t have flexibility, but that academics is a priority. He probably thinks that academics should be the priority and that you should fit other things in around that. If you are using a prepared curriculum, I can see the point of that. I use a variety of curriculum, but it does require our time to complete it. If I were to try to fit it in when we had time, we would never get anything done. I’m amazed that you have the kind of disciple to be able to fit it in around the other things you are doing, if you aren’t making it the priority, but this would explain why you are working through the summer.

Personally, if my perspective is correct, in where your husband is coming from, I’d have to agree with him. If you are not unschooling, but using a prepared curriculum where you are following lesson plans, I think doing it year round whenever it fits in would be frustrating not only for your husband to see, but also for your child. If I have misunderstood what you have told us, please explain further, so we can have a better understanding of what the situation is.



quote:

ORIGINAL: PatricksPeaches

I do keep a lesson planner! If you want to call it that. I write down everyday what lesson we did in which subject. I also keep track of the number of days we actually did school. We are at 130 right now. So we will have hopefully around 170 days for second grade by the end of August. I think that is about right and average for even public schools.


According to this document from the Maryland legislature, (click for link):
quote:

According to a 2000 report by the Education Commission of the States, 31 states require a minimum of 180 teacher-pupil contact days; 8 states require a minimum of 175 days, and 7 states have set varying requirements from 174 to 190 days. Four states do not require a minimum number of days but do require a minimum number of hours, depending upon the students’ grade level, with the number of hours increasing from kindergarten through secondary grades.

Based on the above quote, 170 days would be less than any state that has a set requirement for number of days of direct instruction. Average would be about 178 days.

[Editing to try to clarify]



shadowspring -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 2:21:37 PM)

Don't forget that field trips also count as education days, but even including them I always shoot for 180 days from one planner to the next, and usually wind up with around 200.

That does include weekend activities, like football/soccer games, mission trips, movies (if they fit with classes being taught- like if we were reading Charlotte's Web, than going to see the movie on a Saturday is school to me, as long as you have a contrast/compare discussion on the way home). Don't forget that things like planting/weeding a garden, household repairs, fixing a bike, etc. all count as school- they certainly would if they were part of a traditional classroom!

My oldest is going off to college this year, so I think my system has worked well for me and this is the key element- schoolwork FIRST!

Every morning, there is breakfast then school- devotions first, then math, then English, then history. Science labs always come after lunch. If there is a doctor's appt or other unavoidable interruption, I take books along for the kids to read, listen to language tapes in the car, let them bring their sketchbooks, etc.

There is always plenty of education going on to put in the daily log which my former state required! Perhaps there is more you could do or even just more you are doing that you can record? The more thorough the record, perhaps the more reassured your dh will be?



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 2:54:39 PM)

I understand all your points. I do use a curriculum but don't think I have to be so strict that we can't do other things too. We do a lot of things that would be considered "school" that isn't in the books. Such as cooking, reading, and shopping can be a lesson. My state doesn't require any thing from me to hs. Michigan is very laxed in that. All I had to do was call the school and tell them we are choosing to home school and that was it. I don't have to keep a record for the state at all. I count all the times we went to Community Bible Study on Thursday mornings in the winter as school. She was learning. (crafts, bible stories, writing, peer interaction) She also played on a softball league for 2 months. That is learning. (peer interaction, hand-eye coordination, manners) We go to bible studies on Wednesday nights where she is taught a short lesson. She does chores and helps with her sister. That is learning. (life skills and responsibility) And what about VBS? That is learning in all those areas as well.

I choose to home school so we could do it at our own pace and not have someone putting demands on her that she has to keep up or she isn't as good as them. I also choose to school all year so she wouldn't "lose" anything during the summer months. I was estimating about the 170 days, I didn't think I would be chastised for not having exactly 180. Who does anyway? Even in public school most kids don't actually attend all 180 days. They have sick days, half days and appointments.

My point is that he shouldn't put demands on me about this when he doesn't even know what is being done/not done. Everyday we do table work she does Math, Reading, Phonics, English, and Spelling. Adding in Science, Social Studies, Health, Book Reports through out too. Some days we do not do table work but that is when all the above mentioned things take place. I don't think I should have to sit with her from 9 AM to 4 PM everyday to consider her educated. Far as I'm concerned public school, in most cases, is just a baby sitter that does the bare minimum anyway.



shadowspring -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 3:02:18 PM)

quote:

I count all the times we went to Community Bible Study on Thursday mornings in the winter as school. She was learning. (crafts, bible stories, writing, peer interaction) She also played on a softball league for 2 months. That is learning. (peer interaction, hand-eye coordination, manners) We go to bible studies on Wednesday nights where she is taught a short lesson. She does chores and helps with her sister. That is learning. (life skills and responsibility) And what about VBS? T


Yup. I would count all that.

quote:


I don't have to keep a record for the state at all.


Maybe it would reassure your dh if you kept a record just as if you lived in a state that did require it? It doesn't have to be fancy, just thorough to reassure your dh that your students are acquiring a quality education.

quote:

I didn't think I would be chastised for not having exactly 180.


I know I wasn't intending to chastise you! I was just letting you know how it worked for me. I think cynthia likewise was just letting you know what the norm is across the USA. That may be the standard your dh is using to evaluate your progress, so it would be good to know what that is, ya know? [;)]

quote:

My point is that he shouldn't put demands on me about this when he doesn't even know what is being done/not done.


Well how can he know if you don't make it plain? As you wrote:

quote:

I write down everyday what lesson we did in which subject.


I am just suggesting you write down everything your students are studying/learning and not just the boxed curriculum work.



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 3:12:47 PM)

quote:

Maybe it would reassure your dh if you kept a record just as if you lived in a state that did require it? It doesn't have to be fancy, just thorough to reassure your dh that your students are acquiring a quality education.

Well how can he know if you don't make it plain? As you wrote:

I am just suggesting you write down everything your students are studying/learning and not just the boxed curriculum work.


I have tried to get him to look at the stuff I do write down and he isn't interested. I don't think it would make any difference if I wrote a long or short version. I personally think that he just doesn't get the difference between hs and ps. That it is okay to be different than ps. And that is what I was asking to help me with; getting him to see that it is OK.



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 3:18:54 PM)

quote:

The thing is...he is the parent too, not to mention your husband, which the Bible says is one flesh with you. Are you going to come to complete agreement? Maybe not, but it's something to work toward. Just because you don't agree is not a reason to brush his opinions aside.


I don't brush his opinion to the side. I have tried to sit down with him and show him what we do and he isn't interested. That is what I don't understand; how can he have demands if he doesn't even know what is being done/not done? He just sees that I don't sit with her from 9 AM to 4 PM like the public school does.



macokjc -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 3:49:53 PM)

quote:

I feel that God wants us to home school and I do not want to give it up just because someone (DH) doesn't understand and doesn't want to take the time to understand. I am just getting fed up with the comments about it.


I strongly feel that homeschooling is a family decision and your husband should be part of it. If people put their foot down and disregard their spouses' wishes, that is not glorifying God. The end does not justify the means.

I am a schedule person, I love my schedule. We do school from 8am-12pm every weekday - from Aug. through April. (We do take days here and there.) I don't know how many kids you have, but it wouldn't be that hard to set days and times if it made him happy. Does he love computer software? There are many good homeschool programs out there that can help track and keep records that he might be interested in looking at. Personally, I love my teacher plan book from Staples, but my husband loves all things computerized. (Is that even a word?)

If he is not listening to what you have to say, then he might not understand this - but those that think that school should take 8 hours every day forget all of the "down" time. For instance, you don't need to take 4 10 min. classroom bathroom breaks. (40 min.) Add onto that 2 recesses (45 min.), lunch time (30) min, show and tell (30) min, sharpen your pencil and get ready time (45 min. throughout the day) etc., the school day is really not 8 hours. Now, those are approx. times from when I was a teacher, and of course all classrooms are different. My point being is that when you only have one, it takes a lot less time and I will pray that you can make him see that.

Finally - love that you are in MI. If you are bored some day, read the homeschool reporting requirements for PA - it's enough to drive anybody crazy! [:D]



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 4:18:59 PM)

I agree that home schooling should be a family decision. It was for us. We talked about it for awhile before actually doing it.

Again, I tried to get him to sit with me to look at the SOS presentations online and he wouldn't do it, but yet wanted to tell me that it wouldn't be a good idea. I try to show him my notebook with stuff in it. He don't look. But he tells me that I am not doing it properly. That is my main frustration with this. He wants to tell me how to do it but doesn't want to participate at all. Some of my comments toward him are a little harsh. I am just really perplexed and frustrated.

I love what was said about all the "extra" time spent in public schools. It really is true and one reason we home school.



judii1 -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 4:54:53 PM)

Maybe your Dh wants you to homeschool while he is at work.
Does he work days by any chance? If so, maybe he figures that is a good time for you to homeschool so that there can be time for him when he gets home. That's just my 2 cents.

[:D][:D][:D]



shadowspring -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 5:10:40 PM)

Oh well, if he won't look and he won't try SOS then I am not sure what more you can do.

judii has a good idea of trying to be done before he gets home, but it almost sounds like he is just being unhappy because he is unhappy- not that home schooling has much to do with it.

I'll be praying for you PatricksPeaches. If you know you are doing all that you can to live in peace with him, and you are doing what God is calling you to do, then I guess just count it all joy that you are suffering for righteousness sake?[&:]



cynthia -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 5:31:48 PM)

Thank you for your clarifications, Peaches.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PatricksPeaches
I also choose to school all year so she wouldn't "lose" anything during the summer months. I was estimating about the 170 days, I didn't think I would be chastised for not having exactly 180. Who does anyway? Even in public school most kids don't actually attend all 180 days. They have sick days, half days and appointments.

I wasn’t chastising you. You said you thought that 170 days was average. I pointed out that it isn’t average, but less than average, because it appeared that you didn’t realize what the average is. My point was informational, that’s all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: macokjc

quote:

I feel that God wants us to home school and I do not want to give it up just because someone (DH) doesn't understand and doesn't want to take the time to understand. I am just getting fed up with the comments about it.


I strongly feel that homeschooling is a family decision and your husband should be part of it. If people put their foot down and disregard their spouses' wishes, that is not glorifying God. The end does not justify the means.

Nowhere in this thread has it been suggested that Peaches is homeschooling despite her husband’s wishes.

In this case, who is putting the foot down and disregarding the spouse's wishes? If anything, it appears that the husband is lording it over his wife and not listening to her or trying to come to agreement. He is just demanding things be done his way. She is writing everything down. She has tried to share it with him and come to agreement, but he has refused to even look at the record she has been keeping. To me, that is lording it over his family and not being a godly husband. No woman can make her husband into a godly husband. Only God and the husband can do that.

Peaches, I have a much better understanding of what is going on now that you have explained it thoroughly. It appears that your husband has a particular idea of how things ought to be done, but he is unwilling to discuss how homeschooling works for your family and is making truly unreasonable demands on you. This is not to say that perhaps you might make some changes, but to make changes based solely on the demands of a man who refuses to investigate the truth or even listen to you would not be wise.

Your husband is behaving in an arrogant manner. He is demanding his own way and not listening to you. This is not godly behavior, nor is it loving. (see 1 Corinthians 13:4-6) He is mistreating you. Do not enable his bad behavior. You need to submit yourself to his best interests. This does not mean you are to obey him. It means that you may have to stand up and refuse to go along with his demands, but you must do it respectfully and with his best interests at heart. It is not in his best interests to enable his bad behavior, but is appropriate for you to speak the truth in love to him, making sure your speech of full of grace and seasoned with salt. (Ephesians 4:15 and Colossians 4:6)

If this were me, I would tell him the following:

  • That he is being unloving and demanding and lording it over you. This is unscriptural.
  • That his is not honoring you and his prayers may therefore be hindered. (1 Peter 3:7)
  • That he is making a decision that is based on feeling rather than on knowledge and understanding. The Bible tells us to get understanding. (Proverbs 4:5-7 and Psalm 119:66)
  • According to Proverbs 1:22, his behavior is foolish. He is a scorner of his wife and refuses to get knowledge, but rather asserts his own way in ignorance.
  • That husband and wife are to be in unity. 1 Corinthians 11 outline this showing that the husband and wife are one. This passage does not refer to the husband as decision maker, but as the protector and as husband and wife as one. When he makes decisions counter to your knowledge and understanding, he is behaving in a foolish and ungodly manner.

Then I would tell him that I will not discuss this matter further or be treated with scorn. If he wants to discuss it further, it will be with the plan to come to unity, not for him to try to lord it over you and tear you down. It is his duty, as a husband before God to speak to you in a loving and appropriate manner in seeking unity as a couple. If he wants to lord it over you, his prayers will be hindered and he is damaging his relationship with you, your child and with Heavenly Father. You are doing your best to honor him and the Lord and will continue to do so, but will not be treated rudely in the meantime.

I know this sounds quite firm and maybe shocking to some, but this is about setting appropriate boundaries and not being treated in such and unloving manner by your husband.



Karaboo2 -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 5:38:38 PM)

Someone give our Forums Mother some stars!!! [:D]



PatricksPeaches -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 6:01:23 PM)

Sorry if I confused anyone. The 170 days are the days that she actually sat and did table work. I didn't add in all the other things we did that I listed in my other post. So, if I include them, I will have well over the 180 days. :)

Cynthia, thank you for what you said. You really narrowed it down. I guess I couldn't explain it as well as you did but yes, that is how I feel about this. I will try to talk with him as you suggested. The advice is really appreciated.

My DH works from 11A to 6P with an hour drive each way. I do try to get school done while he is at work. Sometimes things get us off track a bit but that is just how it goes some days. I usually start school in the afternoon while the baby is napping and after lunch. That just works best for us. He thinks it should be a 9A to 4P like ps. I don't think he really understands hs. Maybe that is the thing I need to explain.

Thank you all!!!



cynthia -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 6:49:32 PM)

Oh! One extremely important thing I forgot is that before taking radical action, pray for protection over your family and your marriage. Pray for the Lord to direct your words with respect, grace and wisdom.

I would also suggest that you set aside a particular time daily to get certain things out of the way so nothing will be left to do when your husband gets home. It is much better to avoid trouble in the first place rather than having to deal with the fallout later.

I'm glad my post was more helpful that time. I am not trying to put you on the defensive, especially when you are already feeling pressured.



Jenny-Fair -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 7:18:18 PM)

Does your DH know any other homeschoolers? I don't know ANYONE that spends that much time on school. I mean, most of that time in PS is wasted--administrative stuff, corralling 30 kids, etc.

It seems to me that he is unwilling to even consider the facts. I don't have any advice for you on that. I know it would make me unreasonably angry.



cynthia -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 8:01:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jenny-Fair

Does your DH know any other homeschoolers? I don't know ANYONE that spends that much time on school. I mean, most of that time in PS is wasted--administrative stuff, corralling 30 kids, etc.

It seems to me that he is unwilling to even consider the facts. I don't have any advice for you on that. I know it would make me unreasonably angry.

You're right. He is provoking her to anger. One thing I have found when people are talking bad about me or provoking me is that defending myself does not help. Only when the conversation is civil and both parties are willing to listen to reason can much (if anything) be accomplished.

I would also suggest that you don't dump all the list on him at once. That may be a bit much all at once. Pick something that strikes you as helpful and use that.



cynthia -> RE: DH and I are butting heads (7/16/2008 8:12:07 PM)

I want to point something else out. The problem isn't that the man doesn't understand homeschooling. The problem is that he refuses to listen and is provoking and frustrating his wife. If he had listening and read the information and sought to understand, but disagreed, then that is an entirely different matter. The problem here is that he is demanding his own way, but he refuses to listen to his wife and even discuss the matter. This is indicative of deeper issues in the marriage that need to be addressed. Setting appropriate boundaries is imperative to working through the issues.

I've been realizing lately that it is important to pray over the strength and health of my marriage daily. I have been praying for my husband and children. I have been praying for protection over each of us. However, until several people around me with seemingly strong marriages have come to marital ruin, I had not considered it necessary to daily pray over the health of our marriage, since it seemed to be going well. Since I started doing so, I have been surprised by some positive changes that have been happening, as well as some negative things that have come to light.



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