RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (Full Version)

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earthless -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 4:32:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jstbeliev

You have a lot of words to say but no experience with demonic occurrences which proves my very point.


Who are you directing this to?

quote:

ORIGINAL: jstbeliev

And btw, earthless, read Mark 16, verse 17 in particular. And make sure you are reading the HOLY Bible. Gotta go! Catch ya later.

God bless,


Friend, I know I am reading God's Word. Please feel free to respond to anything I shared if you disagree with it. Like I have said several times here, some people become so enamored with the demonic and false senses of self-importance/power that they lose sight on what is the biblical take on the demonic realm.



JimboFletch -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 4:42:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jstbeliev

You have a lot of words to say but no experience with demonic occurrences which proves my very point. I have so what you have just said is an untruth.

And btw, earthless, read Mark 16, verse 17 in particular. And make sure you are reading the HOLY Bible. Gotta go! Catch ya later.

God bless,

Brilliant... verses 9-20 of Mark 16 are not in older manuscripts - they were added by someone besides Mark, verse 17 included.



earthless -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 4:44:06 PM)

Jimbo,

Make sure you are reading the HOLY Bible!



phosadaud -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 4:44:41 PM)

I believe that demonic stuff has/does happen (and I have experienced this).

I believe that the demonic has no authority over the believer and I believe on rare occasions demons need to be cast out but this isn't something to take lightly and should involve MUCH prayer and our spiritual Leadership.

I believe we are far too ready to blame demons for things and need to stop looking for horns under every bush.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 10:21:17 PM)

Sigh... there is a scripture that I want to point out here because most of you aren't on the money.

Hosea 4:6a

6a) My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

You absolutely do have the authority AND the power to instantly cast demons out of any place you go. It doesn't take a lot of prayer, it doesn't take leadership, and it doesn't take a miracle. It's something that everyone can do at anytime at anyplace for any reason. You don't even need evidence of the spirits to cast them out. Devil spirits should NEVER freak you out, they have NO AUTHORITY over believers. Their primary goal is to get your fearful because fear destroys more people than anything else.

Though I'm very positive that most people will disregard this post and everything written in it, I don't care. It's your walk with God and it's your life and if you don't want any power over the devil then don't read it. But for those who care, or want it, then keep reading with an open mind. This is biblically accurate and it's the way God wanted it.


&
------------------------

The first thing I'm going to show you is the source of our power. It's the holy spirit, but specifically it's more than that. It's referred to as the great mystery. The very first verse is a prophecy of the great mystery to us in Deuteronomy 29:29

Deuteronomy 29:29
29) The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

The secret things belong unto the LORD our God. What secret things? keep reading.

Romans 16:25-26
25) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26) But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Ephesians 3:2-9
2) If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4) Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6) That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7) Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:


What is this mystery that Paul constantly talks about? Lucky for us the great summation statement is in Colossians 1:25-27.

Colossians 1:25-27
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Woah, woah, woah? Christ in us. That's right. You have all the fullness of Christ in you right now. That means all the power, all the benefits, everything that Christ had during his lifetime is available to you. YOU have to tap into that Christ in you. YOU have to tap into that power to be a super conquerer. It's the only way to live above this world. Why would it say that we have Christ in us and then we actually didn't. If the word says it, the word means it. We have Christ in us and we have authority over devil spirits because Christ had authority over devil spirits.

I Peter 1:10-11
10) Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11) Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.


You have authority over devil spirits because Christ is in YOU!.
This power is not only available to the leaders of the Church, it's available to everyone. I will show you with scriptures.

Acts 10:34
34) Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

Romans 2:11
11) For there is no respect of persons with God.


God is no respecter of persons. You can do it just as easily as anyone else.

3) Romans 12:3
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.


Everyone had the same measure of faith dealt to them. You have the same abilities as Billy Graham, as your local ministers and pastors, as the guy next door. You don't need anyone special to help you fulfill the word of God. While those people do help and can set you on the right track as a believer, you do not need them for everything. Mostly your walk should be your relationship with God, with as little people involved as possible. So if you want to cast a devil spirit out of your home, car, job, life, etc.. then you do it.
--------

Now I'm going to show you HOW to do it.


John 20:31
31) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Ephesians 1:19-23
19) And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20) Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
21) (Christ's name is) Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22) And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23) Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

Philippians 2:9-11
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


The name of Jesus Christ has dominion over everything. So this is the name you must use when trying heal someone, cast out devils, or whatever. I will show you the first usage of the name of Jesus Christ in conjunction with operating the power of God, so that you might completely understand and believe me when I tell you exactly how to operate this power that is in you. The first usage is in Acts when a miracle was done by Peter.

Acts 3:1-10
1) Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
2) And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
3) Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
4) And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
5) And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
6) Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
7) And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8) And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.
9) And all the people saw him walking and praising God:
10) And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.


This story was about a man that got healed that was lame from his mother's womb. Peter healed him via the name of Jesus Christ. This is the first usage of this name in regards to operating the power of God. So this is how you operate it.

I'll show you three of examples of prayers you can use to drive the adversary out of your home.

1) God, I am thankful for the great power you have given me. I claim my house in the name of Jesus Christ.
2) God, I thank you for backing the adversary away in the name of Jesus Christ.
3) God, in the name of Jesus Christ, get these devil spirits out of here.

Each one of those would work just fine and since you used the name of Jesus Christ they will / must leave. Remember Christ has authority over these spirits. It's important to note that you must use the name Christ in the prayer. It's the title that gave him glory over all, exalted him from other people named Jesus, and was given to him after he crucified. It's also how Peter and the apostles operated the power of God. Why try and change it now?

Anyway, that is the how too in operating and having power over the adversary (the devil). Any of you that listened and learned from this, good for you! Now you have authority over your lives!

James 4:7
7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.


God bless.



phosadaud -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 10:32:14 PM)

No offense, but you've been watching too much Star Wars...

You are correct that we needn't fear demons though because they have no authority over the believer because of Christ in us. Beyond that... well... go back to your Bible and read more. And maybe lay off the commentaries for a while or whatever teacher is obsessed with demons that you are listening to.

Edited to add that the reason some of us are encouraging much prayer is that the Bible doesn't blame everything on demons and neither should we. We need to stop assuming everything is demon related. We need discernment. And that means we need to spend time in prayer.



delete123 -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 10:43:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithwalkingmom

I wasn't sure where to post this in the first place so if I have miss posted please feel free to move this to where it belongs.

This happened last night and it was the first time we had this happen to us but I had heard stories of it happening to other Christians. We were sitting in our dining room at our computers when my husband asked me it I had smelled smoke. I didn't from where I was at but I got up and I didn't walk a foot and a half before I was met with the smell of smoldering wood, not burning wood like in a fireplace and I got goosebumps all over my arm. My spirit was just screming at me that something wasn't right about this. I wasn't afraid of a physical fire that scaried me, it was something else. We checked each of the computers to see it that was the problem and all over the house upstairs and down but we didnt smell it anywhere but in the archway that is in between the living room and dining room. The smell wasn't in the living room at all but if you stood in the archway you smelled smoke. We called the fire dept just in case it was in the walls somewhere and they gave us the all clear. After they left we didn't smell it anymore and the firemen never did smell it even though we both smelled it while they were there.

Now I heard it that sometimes when satan/demons are present they can smell like smoke but I have never encountered that. The house we live in is about 85 yr old and we are both Christians for a long time. I have the gift of discerning spirits and there wasn't a good spirit in that archway last night. After the fire dept left I went to our bedroom and put a hedge of protection around our home and drove away any spirits that didn't belong there.

Am I'm a wrong in what I thougt about this smell? Some say it could be the sweet fragrance of God but there was nothing sweet bout this smoky ordor. What are your thoughts on what I have experienced?



The one verse that comes to mind is that verse in Acts 2:19 during the day of pentecost when it states: I will show you wonders in heaven above the signs in the earth beneath: Blood and Fire and Vapor of smoke

CRH



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 10:43:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

No offense, but you've been watching too much Star Wars...

You are correct that we needn't fear demons though because they have no authority over the believer because of Christ in us. Beyond that... well... go back to your Bible and read more. And maybe lay off the commentaries for a while or whatever teacher is obsessed with demons that you are listening to.

Edited to add that the reason some of us are encouraging much prayer is that the Bible doesn't blame everything on demons and neither should we. We need to stop assuming everything is demon related. We need discernment. And that means we need to spend time in prayer.


No where did I say that I believed that everything is demon possessed. I just showed you how to operate the power of God with respect to the original posters situation. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Most problems occur from two things.

1) The weakness of our flesh
2) Evil spirits

I don't know which one is more prevalent. It probably depends on the person you are talking about. Many things are resultant of devil spirits, but many are not. To say that the devil is not doing his dirty work is like saying that ice cream isn't cold. It's his nature and he will do it. Of course we should bring up as little of him as possible so as to not glorify his devices, but if you have any doubt in your situation then you need to make sure you are spiritually accounted for. I showed you how to account for yourself spiritually.

It was very necessary for me to bring him up as much as I did in this message to teach the people in this thread the accuracy of God's word. No where in here did I subject my own ideas. Everything was backed up by Bible scripture and was interpreted correctly.



phosadaud -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 10:52:48 PM)

#1 We don't "operate" God's power. God is not a lightsaber we wave around. God is Almighty and not controlled by us.

#2 How do we know a demon is involved in the OP's situation? That is the point many of us are trying to make. It's not that we don't think the devil isn't working.

#3 You don't need to teach us God's Word. Some of us know God's Word quite well thank you.

#4 It is your opinion that everything is interpreted correctly.

#5 Maybe I missed it, but no one here has denied the accuracy of God's Word.



SirWintery -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:04:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH


You absolutely do have the authority AND the power to instantly cast demons out of any place you go. It doesn't take a lot of prayer, it doesn't take leadership, and it doesn't take a miracle.


Truth...you're missing something... And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. (Mark 9:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

The first thing I'm going to show you is the source of our power. It's the holy spirit, but specifically it's more than that. It's referred to as the great mystery. The very first verse is a prophecy of the great mystery to us in Deuteronomy 29:29
...
Woah, woah, woah? Christ in us. That's right. You have all the fullness of Christ in you right now. That means all the power, all the benefits, everything that Christ had during his lifetime is available to you. YOU have to tap into that Christ in you. YOU have to tap into that power to be a super conquerer.


God is not a force to be tapped into. Getting to know Him and His will allows us to act in accordance with that will. This is way too serious an issue (demonic influence/control/oppression)to solve with flippant notions of power-grabbing.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Philippians 2:5-6)

Christ's example was not one of trying to "grab the power". Humbling ourselves before God, we acknowledge that He has the power.



Kat_D -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:05:27 PM)

quote:

Am I'm a wrong in what I thougt about this smell? Some say it could be the sweet fragrance of God but there was nothing sweet bout this smoky ordor. What are your thoughts on what I have experienced?


My thought is that the devil would probably smell more like a fart than smoldering wood, but that's just me.



faithwalkingmom -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:10:29 PM)

Thank all for posting. We do have a fireplace but it's a gas fireplace so no wood buring in there. We went to the fireplace first just in case but nothing. My husband was in the same room and he has never smoked in his life. I'm just glad that I know the Lord God and that He has given me the power over satan/demons. I did ask God to put the hedge of protection around our home. I went to our pastor tonight and he seems to think that evil has come into the house with the new table that we got at a yard sale and brought home sunday afternoon, we smell the smoke ordor sunday after evening services. We prayed and rebuked any evil that came in with that table to leave our home.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:14:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

#1 We don't "operate" God's power. God is not a lightsaber we wave around. God is Almighty and not controlled by us.

#2 How do we know a demon is involved in the OP's situation? That is the point many of us are trying to make. It's not that we don't think the devil isn't working.

#3 You don't need to teach us God's Word. Some of us know God's Word quite well thank you.

#4 It is your opinion that everything is interpreted correctly.

#5 Maybe I missed it, but no one here has denied the accuracy of God's Word.


1) We absolutely do operate the power of God. God doesn't do everything for us. We have to take a stand, believe, and pray for things. If you don't pray for it.. it probably won't happen. We are not God's robots, he gave us free will. It is our choice to use his power.

I Corinthians 2:1-5
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

2) We don't know for sure, but they had doubts and thought it could be that. Since the thread went into the direction of people talking about power and devil spirits. I fashioned my post in that manner. EVERYONE else did the same thing.

3) I never said you didn't. In this particular thread there was a lot of inaccuracy. So on this particular topic, I took it upon myself to try and educate you. But if you don't want a teacher then that is your prerogative. Some people do / want someone to help them. It's your life do whatever you want, but stop trying to speak for people.

4) Point out one part that you don't think was interpreted correctly. All of my points were made with supporting scripture. Everything was backed up with clear verses from God's word. If you need evidence of Christ operating the power of God, then reread the gospels.

5) I never said you denied the accuracy of God's word once again. I happen to know the accuracy of the word on this particular topic so I endeavored to teach you. There is a lot of misconception in the Christian world today about the amount of power we have. Everything thinks the power died out after the apostles died. But there is no biblical substantiation for those claims and I don't use any outside sources to interpret the Bible but the Bible.

Nevertheless, my patience is growing very thin on these forums. I've tried numerous times to clearly outline the Bible to people who were confused on certain topics. Most of those times it holds no profit because people do not listen and are not meek to using the Bible to interpret the Bible. I GET NOTHING OUT OF THIS. I don't get paid to come on here and shed some light on certain topics. I do it out of love, because I am hoping that someone, somewhere, will be blessed by something that I write. That the true word of God would not be tainted by the interpretations of men. All I do is use the Bible to interpret itself, because that is the way God's word is most accurately taught.



SirWintery -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:23:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

Nevertheless, my patience is growing very thin on these forums. I've tried numerous times to clearly outline the Bible to people who were confused on certain topics. Most of those times it holds no profit because people do not listen and are not meek to using the Bible to interpret the Bible. I GET NOTHING OUT OF THIS. I don't get paid to come on here and shed some light on certain topics.


Meekness doesn't type with all caps either, Truth.



CoeurdeLeon_ -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: faithwalkingmom

Thank all for posting. We do have a fireplace but it's a gas fireplace so no wood buring in there. We went to the fireplace first just in case but nothing. My husband was in the same room and he has never smoked in his life. I'm just glad that I know the Lord God and that He has given me the power over satan/demons. I did ask God to put the hedge of protection around our home. I went to our pastor tonight and he seems to think that evil has come into the house with the new table that we got at a yard sale and brought home sunday afternoon, we smell the smoke ordor sunday after evening services. We prayed and rebuked any evil that came in with that table to leave our home.

WHY in heaven's name would you assume evil in a TABLE??? Why wouldn't your first thought be that the table came from a place where people smoked or that it had been in a house that did have a wood fireplace or that had been smoke damaged by fire? I don't understand not ascribing it to one of many more likely reasons and going straight to evil.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:29:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH


You absolutely do have the authority AND the power to instantly cast demons out of any place you go. It doesn't take a lot of prayer, it doesn't take leadership, and it doesn't take a miracle.


Truth...you're missing something... And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting. (Mark 9:29)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

The first thing I'm going to show you is the source of our power. It's the holy spirit, but specifically it's more than that. It's referred to as the great mystery. The very first verse is a prophecy of the great mystery to us in Deuteronomy 29:29
...
Woah, woah, woah? Christ in us. That's right. You have all the fullness of Christ in you right now. That means all the power, all the benefits, everything that Christ had during his lifetime is available to you. YOU have to tap into that Christ in you. YOU have to tap into that power to be a super conquerer.


God is not a force to be tapped into. Getting to know Him and His will allows us to act in accordance with that will. This is way too serious an issue (demonic influence/control/oppression)to solve with flippant notions of power-grabbing.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Philippians 2:5-6)

Christ's example was not one of trying to "grab the power". Humbling ourselves before God, we acknowledge that He has the power.


1) I didn't say we didn't need to pray. I just said that it doesn't take but one prayer to accomplish what I was setting out to teach. The people in the Bible prayed for at least 5 hours a day. After the Day of Pentecost they spoke in tongues for at least 5 hours a day. Praying is our very best service for the kingdom of God. 5 hours in our society is something that is hard to do, but that was the standard back then and should be something we shoot for now. But.. claiming your home in the name of Jesus Christ takes 1 short line. Not a long hour. My point was that it was easy to do.

2) The problem is that most people don't understand the power that they really have. As Christians we don't have to ride out the wave of negativity that enters in our lives. Unbelievers are forced to deal / cope with negative situations as they come their way and they have to ride the wave till it finishes it's course. We have the ability to live above the circumstances because we are more than conquerers and can do all things through Christ who strengtheneth us. I'm not using God as a battery to fuel my "fippant notions of power-grabbing." God is my loving Dad. I seek God first in every situation and I love and enjoy him. Since I found God in my life I've done a complete 180 from who I used to be. I am eternally greatful and I look forward to spending eternity with him. But this is such an easy concept to grasp that we have the same power that Christ had available to him. My goal was to introduce this new concept that most people don't believe in. I assumed that most people have a relationship with God. That most people had a good deal of Bible knowledge. The reason why I use the word "tap into" is because most people don't operate the power of God like we are supposed to.

You need to stand on your sonship rights and understand what was given to you. Christ's death was more than just eternal life and freedom from sin. It also gave us the ability to take control of our lives.

I Corinthians 2:4-10
4) And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5) That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6) Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7) But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8) Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.



phosadaud -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:29:15 PM)

First, you may want to stop trying to "educate" all us "unejumacated" folks. This is a place for discussion - not a place to come on here and tell us how you know it all and we don't. You will find that that kind of attitude isn't going to get anyone to listen to you. People say all kinds of things around here - which is why we have to be Bereans and not just believe something because some complete stranger came on and quoted Bible verses at us.

Second, I am a Bible-believing, Holy Spirit filled, Pentecostal believer. I don't believe for one second the gifts died out with the Apostles. I however, do not believe that the name it and claim it doctrine is Scriptural. It's not. Jesus prayed for the Father's will be done - not His. That's why we don't control God and wave Him around as we see fit. Yes, there is power - but it's not something that WE control like a witch by waving a wand, chanting a chant or thinking it into existance. That is NOWHERE in Scripture and if you think it is, show me the chapter and verse.

Third, there is a vast difference between surrendering to God's will and controlling God. God does not force Himself on us. However, we cannot thwart God's plans. Faith as small as a mustard seed (do you realize how tiny that is?) is enough to move mountains. It's not a matter of believing enough or using a certain formula and VOILA! our will be done. It's not our will. It's not our plan. It's about God - not us.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:33:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wintery

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

Nevertheless, my patience is growing very thin on these forums. I've tried numerous times to clearly outline the Bible to people who were confused on certain topics. Most of those times it holds no profit because people do not listen and are not meek to using the Bible to interpret the Bible. I GET NOTHING OUT OF THIS. I don't get paid to come on here and shed some light on certain topics.


Meekness doesn't type with all caps either, Truth.


Meekness has nothing to do with getting angry or not. I used caps because I am human and have emotion and that is one way to emphasize an angry point over the internet. The point was that I spend my time on here to help you guys, not that I have any benefit in typing up long posts about the Bible. I don't do it to stroke my ego. I do not need the approval of men. As a matter of fact I wouldn't even be able to understand the Bible at all if God didn't help me.

I could easily spend my time doing other things that would be profitable, but I wanted to shed some light here. But seeing as how people don't seem to want anything that I teach.. it may very well be one of the last times I visit here. I can go other places where people are more hungry for the truth.



SirWintery -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:39:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH
The reason why I use the word "tap into" is because most people don't operate the power of God like we are supposed to.


Thanks for your reply. I believe in praying to the Father in Jesus' name and letting God be God. I have seen God answer these type of prayers.

When I worked at a warehouse I had a license to operate a forklift. "Operate the power of God"? I would not demean our Lord with those kinds of ideas.



SirWintery -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:41:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

I could easily spend my time doing other things that would be profitable, but I wanted to shed some light here. But seeing as how people don't seem to want anything that I teach.. it may very well be one of the last times I visit here. I can go other places where people are more hungry for the truth.


Stick around. We can swap two cents anytime.



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/16/2008 11:44:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: phosadaud

First, you may want to stop trying to "educate" all us "unejumacated" folks. This is a place for discussion - not a place to come on here and tell us how you know it all and we don't. You will find that that kind of attitude isn't going to get anyone to listen to you. People say all kinds of things around here - which is why we have to be Bereans and not just believe something because some complete stranger came on and quoted Bible verses at us.

Second, I am a Bible-believing, Holy Spirit filled, Pentecostal believer. I don't believe for one second the gifts died out with the Apostles. I however, do not believe that the name it and claim it doctrine is Scriptural. It's not. Jesus prayed for the Father's will be done - not His. That's why we don't control God and wave Him around as we see fit. Yes, there is power - but it's not something that WE control like a witch by waving a wand, chanting a chant or thinking it into existance. That is NOWHERE in Scripture and if you think it is, show me the chapter and verse.

Third, there is a vast difference between surrendering to God's will and controlling God. God does not force Himself on us. However, we cannot thwart God's plans. Faith as small as a mustard seed (do you realize how tiny that is?) is enough to move mountains. It's not a matter of believing enough or using a certain formula and VOILA! our will be done. It's not our will. It's not our plan. It's about God - not us.


1) I type with authority because that what it takes to get the point across. You think highly of what you know, so this method does not work to teach you. I understand this. But since this is a forum and I don't know you personally, I am forced to choose one style of writing which may not be effective for certain people because I do not know the people I am writing too. If I knew you in person I would most likely approach you in another way. This is the problem with trying to teach people things over the Internet. It is never personal enough.

2) I am very happy with that. As far as the power of God. Of course things do not happen the way we want them too sometimes. But there are certain things that are clear in the Bible that are available to us. There is a scripture that says that we are delivered from every and evil work. Again, this was the topic of discussion and I weighed in keeping that in mind. I know that when you pray you need to have your wants AND needs parallel with God's word. You can't just get a million dollars out of no where because more than likely you wouldn't get it. If you needed 1 million dollars, I'm sure God would find a way to get it too you because he is a loving God. I also never said anything about chanting, or thinking things into existence. I'm not some guy reading a weird Bible. I'm reading the same Bible that you are.

3) How silly? You can't control God. But you absolutely can do things that are available to you. Of course things happen that we don't understand because God knows what we need better than we do. But many times you can and should do things in certain situations. I never said this was an end all standard for EVERY situation in your life. It's just one possible thing that you could do and that could happen in any number of scenarios.



Apaise -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/17/2008 12:03:39 AM)

quote:

1) We absolutely do operate the power of God. God doesn't do everything for us. We have to take a stand, believe, and pray for things. If you don't pray for it.. it probably won't happen. We are not God's robots, he gave us free will. It is our choice to use his power.



We absolutely do not operate the power of God. In order to do that, we'd have to BE God, and that job is not available. (Thank God!) We can ask God to work on our behalf, but we don't use Him or His power as if he were some genie.


quote:

4) Point out one part that you don't think was interpreted correctly. All of my points were made with supporting scripture. Everything was backed up with clear verses from God's word. If you need evidence of Christ operating the power of God, then reread the gospels.



- The mystery in Rom. 16:25-26 refers to the fact that Christ would die as a sacrifice for us all (cross reference with 1 Cor. 2:1-8)

- The mystery referred to in Eph. 2:2-9 was that the gospel was now open to Gentiles and Jews alike (cross reference with the first three chapters of Eph., Paul was more than clear in spelling himself out)

- Col. 1:25-27 is saying the same thing as Rom. 16

- 1 Pet. 1:10-11 has nothing to do with the fact that the Spirit of Christ fills us

As a matter of fact, I didn't see a single scripture you used correctly or in context, but if I keep going point by point I'll wind up derailing the thread. Your opinions are erroneous and not based on scripture.


quote:

You need to stand on your sonship rights and understand what was given to you. Christ's death was more than just eternal life and freedom from sin. It also gave us the ability to take control of our lives.



So much for being surrendered to God. I agree that Christ's death was about more than eternal life. It was about renewing a relationship that was broken. It had nothing to do with enabling us to "tap into power".



TheBibleTRUTH -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/17/2008 12:34:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apaise

quote:

1) We absolutely do operate the power of God. God doesn't do everything for us. We have to take a stand, believe, and pray for things. If you don't pray for it.. it probably won't happen. We are not God's robots, he gave us free will. It is our choice to use his power.



We absolutely do not operate the power of God. In order to do that, we'd have to BE God, and that job is not available. (Thank God!) We can ask God to work on our behalf, but we don't use Him or His power as if he were some genie.


quote:

4) Point out one part that you don't think was interpreted correctly. All of my points were made with supporting scripture. Everything was backed up with clear verses from God's word. If you need evidence of Christ operating the power of God, then reread the gospels.



- The mystery in Rom. 16:25-26 refers to the fact that Christ would die as a sacrifice for us all (cross reference with 1 Cor. 2:1-8)

- The mystery referred to in Eph. 2:2-9 was that the gospel was now open to Gentiles and Jews alike (cross reference with the first three chapters of Eph., Paul was more than clear in spelling himself out)
- Col. 1:25-27 is saying the same thing as Rom. 16

- 1 Pet. 1:10-11 has nothing to do with the fact that the Spirit of Christ fills us

As a matter of fact, I didn't see a single scripture you used correctly or in context, but if I keep going point by point I'll wind up derailing the thread. Your opinions are erroneous and not based on scripture.


quote:

You need to stand on your sonship rights and understand what was given to you. Christ's death was more than just eternal life and freedom from sin. It also gave us the ability to take control of our lives.



So much for being surrendered to God. I agree that Christ's death was about more than eternal life. It was about renewing a relationship that was broken. It had nothing to do with enabling us to "tap into power".


I'm done commenting about:

"We absolutely do not operate the power of God. In order to do that, we'd have to BE God, and that job is not available. (Thank God!) We can ask God to work on our behalf, but we don't use Him or His power as if he were some genie."

The apostles all had power from God to carry out things that God wanted them to do. We have that same power. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not, I don't care. I'm done talking about this because, I've said all I need to say.

-------

Your assumptions based on the mystery are completely unfounded. You say that I am not using the scripture correctly. You are not using it correctly, Because the verse in Colossians sums up the mystery to a point where there should be absolutely no confusion. Yet, it seems like you didn't even read it.

Colossians 1:25-27
25) Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;
26) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Look I do not make this stuff up, it says it in black and white. Verse 27 is like a definition of the mystery. "To whom God would make konwn what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;..." What is the mystery? Keep reading the same verse. "...which is Christ in you, the hope of glory." I really don't understand how you couldn't read that and know what the mystery is. You don't even have to turn the page or read more than 10 words. It's right there!

IF the verse says the mystery is Christ in you, why would it mean: "refers to the fact that Christ would die as a sacrifice for us all." If that is what it was then it would read: "To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which refers to the fact that Christ would die as a sacrifice for us all." And that is completely and utterly erroneous and that's not what it says.

"So much for being surrendered to God. I agree that Christ's death was about more than eternal life. It was about renewing a relationship that was broken. It had nothing to do with enabling us to "tap into power"."

I am God's bonded servant for life. The problem is that you don't understand that we are also Sons of God. Of course If I decided to put up a scripture that says we are joint-heirs with Christ you would probably say that I was misinterpreting it. Even though I was reading it word for word not making any changes to it. God has delegated us some power as Christians to live above the world. That's why we get holy spirit in us. That's why there are nine manifestations of spirit. God gave us a token of his love and part of that includes power to be super conquerers. Believe me that you need to use some of this stuff to overcome intense spiritual pressure.

Don't say that I'm using the scripture inadequately when all I'm doing is quoting scripture and telling you it's meaning which is easily ascertained from reading the same very scripture. PLEASE, anyone take any part of anything I've ever said on these forums and quote it to me and tell me how I inaccurately divided it. You don't have to believe what I write, but don't insult my usage of the scripture.



earthless -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/17/2008 8:05:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH


Most problems occur from two things.

1) The weakness of our flesh
2) Evil spirits



You missed a third and most important aspect - the fact that we live in a fallen world. Not everything has demonic spirit behind it or is the cause of it. Actions have consequences and not everything is because "Satan made me do it..."

That's a cop out.



earthless -> RE: the smelling of smoke and satan/demons (7/17/2008 8:10:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

The apostles all had power from God to carry out things that God wanted them to do.


And that was for a very specific reason, purpose. To authenticate the Word of God as the foundation was being laid. The foundation (The Word) is complete.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheBibleTRUTH

We have that same power. It's up to you if you want to believe it or not, I don't care. I'm done talking about this because, I've said all I need to say.



No we do not. Jesus said "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. John 14:12

Some people take this passage to mean greater manifestations of the power of God would take place after Jesus' ministry.

Given almost 2,000 years of Christian history, such a perspective is hard to justify. Jesus raised the dead, walked on water, created food for thousands, healed lepers and the crippled, opened the eyes of the blind and the ears of the deaf - and, as God in the flesh, resurrected himself from the dead! (John 2:19-22).

The point of the passage, when Jesus said his followers would do "greater things" (John 14:11-14) is best understood by the immediate context that precedes these verses and those that immediately follow.

Firstly, the context that immediately follows this passage. In verses 15-18 of John 14 we see that in speaking of "greater things" Jesus was speaking of a spiritual dimension, a reality that, at the time of his earthly ministry, was not yet made available to all humanity. In talking about "greater things," Jesus was talking about the significance and meaning of not only what he had not yet done in his earthly ministry - his crucifixion and resurrection - but also the coming of another counselor - God the Holy Spirit.

So Jesus is saying, in terms of "greater things" that the work of God the Holy Spirit would begin. Just as Jesus had come to be with us and among us, in the flesh, God the Holy Spirit, the Comforter, another counselor, lives in us, spiritually.

Secondly, it is also helpful to consider the context that precedes the verses in which Jesus promises "greater things." In the initial verses of John 14 Jesus reassures his disciples, using metaphorical language, that he is going to prepare a place for them in his Father's house. Jesus told them he knew the way to his Father's house. One of his disciples, Thomas, apparently didn't grasp the deeper meaning of Jesus' words, and like many today, attempt to apply literal meaning to symbolic, metaphorical language inspired by God.

Thomas said that the disciples didn't know the way to the Father's house, and therefore they would have no idea how to join Jesus there. Jesus responded with the well known passage, "I am the way, the truth and the life" (John 14:6). Using the verb "to be", identifying himself as the great I AM of the Bible, Jesus made it clear that he was God in the flesh, and that we don't need to find the way to the Father's house if we know Jesus - Jesus doesn't just give us directions, He Himself embodies the "way, the truth and the life." If we are in Him and He in us, then we are going the "right direction" - we are in Him and He is in us.

So, given the context - how exactly would the followers of Jesus do "greater things"? We will experience, and we will be used, by God, because of his grace, to see spiritual transformation.

Jesus' ministry was filled with physical miracles, but physical miracles are not the greatest miracles. The greatest, most wonderful miracles are spiritual healings, spiritual rescues, spiritual transformations.

By God's grace we can be used as his tools to help direct our friends and family to the Great Physician, who will give us new life, transformed life, so that, because of him, we will cross over from death to life (John 5:24).

What a tragedy that religion misleads people and has them looking for the physical, when the "greater things" of the gospel of Jesus Christ are all about the internal transformation that God will work in the lives of those who accept our Lord and Savior.



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