Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (Full Version)

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stepstone -> Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 7:35:35 PM)

I am not real sure who to talk to about this. I would like to talk to my pastor, but figured I would start here because of the anonymity. I want to protect my wife's reputation. We attend a small church, and I am afraid that if I bring this up it may cause problems. I'm encouraged that she's finally started going to church with me again, although a lot of it has to do with the fact that it's where her best friend goes to church.

I'll try not to waste a lot of words here, but I really am struggling to understand something. My wife says that she is a Christian, but she really doesn't have a testimony. We actually committed adultery before I was converted. She sought a divorce from the man she cheated on with me, and not long after that, I was converted and then we married. She found out after they divorced that he had already been cheating on her, but she didn't know it at the time. I bring this up because I recently felt convicted to apologize to her for causing or contributing to her sin. It occurred to me that I had asked for God's forgiveness for this sin on several occassions, but I had never sought her forgiveness. Her response was that I didn't cause her to sin, I didn't have anything to apologize for. And then she followed it up with a comment to the effect of, "Besides, he was already cheating on me." I told her that didn't make it right--not at all. That we had still sinned against God, but she didn't feel bad about it because in her mind he had already given her an out by cheating on her first. Even though she didn't know at the time that he had.

Now, I guess a little bit of history - we have had a lot of trials and tribulations in our marriage (thankfully no adultery) and I have often wondered if it wasn't because of how our relationship started. I've discussed this with her on multiple occassions, and have pretty much gotten the same answer every time. She feels that her actions were justified by the fact that he had already sinned against her. However, my feeling is that just because someone sins against you, that in no way justifies your sin. Period. And if you cannot repent and seek God's forgiveness, then you seek to justify yourself before God. That is not good because we can only be justified before God through Christ when we are covered by His righteousness. But if we seek to establish our righteousness, we are doomed.

That, in addition to some other things, has really caused me to worry for her. She does not like to cook or clean. I often come home as late as 7:00 or 8:00, and have to start dinner as soon as I walk in the house. I was going to church by myself for a while because she did not want to get out of bed on Sundays to go. Most weekends she actually stays in bed for the majority of the weekend while I take care of our kids. She is often stressed out and has an angry temperment, and if I ever try to gently rebuke or admonish her, she turns on me and really goes into full attack mode right in front of our kids. She won't pray with me, study the Bible with me, watch Christian movies with me, work on a budget with me. If I ask her not to spend money on something we don't need because money is tight, she will go ahead and spend it anyway. In so many ways, she just rebels against me and has said on several occassions that she is not big on submission and that she doesn't have a lot of respect for me.

Now, I'm not perfect. Lord knows, I'm a sinner that needs His righteousness because otherwise I would burn quickly. But I really make an effort to submit my life to Christ and to walk by faith. I used to be mired in sin--drugs, alcohol, pornography, profanity--all of which by God's grace I have found freedom. In all honesty, I think she should have a lot more reason to respect the man God has molded me into today than the one she seemed so head-over-heels in love with when we got married. But she seemed to love and cherish me more when I was full of sin, and seems to just despise me now as (hopefully) I grow in grace. And meanwhile, she has fallen into habits of drinking, using profanity, and gossiping about others, more and more. Should I point any of those things out, however, you would think by her response that I was the devil himself.

I do not understand it. I do not know what to do about it. I pray for her often and have this increasing burden concerning her. Even though she attacks me when I try to love her and says so many hateful things to me, I do not want a divorce. I would never seek that. I just want a God-honoring marriage, and a godly family to raise our children in. She says she is saved and has know she was since she was 8 or 9 years old, but she does not seem to be drawn at all to the things of God. I worry that she has a false sense of assurance, but based on the way other conversations have gone lately, I cannot even imagine expressing my concern to her right now. And I have no idea who else to turn to. I feel like a complete failure as a husband, and I don't know what else to do or to say.

Can anyone out there offer any insight or wisdom to help me out?

Thanks so much.

In Christ,
Stephen Stoned



shadowspring -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 8:22:09 PM)

Stephen,

I will pray for you and your wife tonight. I am sure many other posters will have good counsel. I don't have any more to tell you than to love your wife, pray God's Word over her life, and then praise God for the great things He is doing in your family- whether it seems like it or not.

You have a spiritual battle before you, to become more and more Christlike in spite of the fact that your wife is pulling the other way. Be steadfast. Your labor in the Lord is not in vain.



NotDoneYet -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 10:10:10 PM)

has your wife sought out any mental health help? She sounds like she might have some issues with depression.



csl7037 -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 10:28:06 PM)

I only have two thoughts off hand.

1. Her "justification" of your affair may not be justification as much as anger at her ex. Especially the way she found out, after the fact, even though she had moved on, had to have been a blow. A big part of her may just not want to give him the satisfaction (even if it's not to his face or even to his knowledge) of admitting she was wrong because, in a way, that would make him less wrong. I only see it this way, I guess, because I have a tendency to be a very stubborn person which I have to guard against. But I understand the urge to want to stand on principal when I've been wronged - even if I am/was as wrong or maybe even moreso. Not saying it's right, and I don't know your wife. But it may not be that she doesn't recognize it as sin; she just isn't ready to let go of his sin to see or admit her own.

2. The only thing you are responsible for is to be the husband God called you to be. It does sound like you've got some difficulties in handling her. But be happy she's going to church and that she's got a close friend there is probably a very good thing. I used to pray for God to change things about dh and I'd get so frustrated because it seemed like his answer was always to point to something I needed to change! That seems to be how it works, though. You're only responsible for you. If you're doing all that He has called you to do, He'll work in her. It may take some patience but that's the only way.



Yetto1997 -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 11:14:10 PM)

As Christians, our lives will always be filled with spiritual battle. It's when we find ourselves yearning for and becoming closer to God that the devil starts to take notice and fight a little harder. He will cause turmoil and strife at every turn to wreak havoc in our homes. As we look to God's Word to lead our family on a spiritual path, the devil may whisper in our spouse's heart that there's a better way. Look to the scriptures and take strength in 1 and 2 Corinthians, Romans, Galatians, and also James. I keep your family in my prayers.



stepstone -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/13/2008 11:47:45 PM)

Thank you for exhortations and encouragement. I have to admit that is very difficult to be the husband and father I know I'm supposed to be when so often I am met with opposition. Another thing that concerns me is that our 12 year old daughter is starting to reject authority and respond disrespectfully toward me, too. Of course, that's what she sees Mom doing every day, so why not.

Also, unfortunately, her best friend who also goes to church there is very similar to her in personality--she goes somewhat grudgingly because her husbands uncle pastors there and her husband also happens to be a deacon. They are both rather rebellious in attitude, but my wife is 12 years older than her friend and should (in my opinion) be helping her mature in Christ. Instead, they enjoy hanging out, drinking alcoholic beverages, and talking like sailors. And griping about their husbands, of course. (Exasperating.) Of course, if my wife is actually unconverted like I'm beginning to suspect, then that would make more sense.

And yes, my wife has sought "help". We've both been to marriage counseling (though it was a secular counselor and not much help), she's been taking anti-anxiety and depression meds for years (though the problems have never really improved), she was actually diagnosed as bi-polar several years back, but she disagreed with the diagnosis and now just periodically accuses me of being bi-polar (just to keep things interesting I guess). I know that we are not enjoying the union we are supposed to have in marriage, and that just kills me inside. Our relationship should be a place of refuge and refreshment, but more often than not it just seems to be the biggest cause of unhappiness in both our lives.

I have prayed and prayed (and will continue to do so), and periodically just resign myself to "this is the cross I guess I must bear", but I really hope (especially for our kids's sake) that things improve. It's not fair to them that they have these two potentially wonderful parents that they just can't really enjoy because their parents just can't seem to enjoy each other.

Like I said before, I don't understand it. I don't know what the problem is. I don't know why she seems to resent me so much, says that she doesn't respect me, resists every request I make, and blames me for her unhappy state. I don't know what God is doing. I guess that's what it really boils down to. I just don't get it. And I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be doing about it, either.

Thanks for your prayers.

Stephen



seagullplayer -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/14/2008 11:47:34 AM)

Sounds like your wife needs to meet Jesus. I pray she comes to see Him in you.

It is her ex husband that you should tell your sorry to.



carl54 -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/14/2008 9:04:47 PM)

I agree with other posters that said it sounds like your wife is going through a depression. Pointing our her faults and weaknesses would only make the situation worse. She has probably convinced herself already that she is sinful and unworthy. I suggest you drop the whole discussion about your former sins and set your sights on where you go from here. It would be great if you could get her into counseling. Be loving to her. She probably needs it now more than ever. Take care of her, let her know that she is worthy of your love. Let her know God loves her. A big part of her problem may be a belief that God is punishing her because of her past sin. I'm praying for you guys.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/16/2008 7:47:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: carl54
I agree with other posters that said it sounds like your wife is going through a depression. Pointing our her faults and weaknesses would only make the situation worse. She has probably convinced herself already that she is sinful and unworthy. I suggest you drop the whole discussion about your former sins and set your sights on where you go from here. It would be great if you could get her into counseling. Be loving to her. She probably needs it now more than ever. Take care of her, let her know that she is worthy of your love. Let her know God loves her. A big part of her problem may be a belief that God is punishing her because of her past sin. I'm praying for you guys.

This needed repeating, and I added my emphasis by underlining.

Bluntly, I came from a church that allowed no divorce and remarriage under any circumstances -- except remarriage to the first spouse (which I understand is biblically wrong) -- so when I see marriages that are predicated upon sin (adultery in this case), it is very confusing to me. Such marriages start out messy, and it appears that yours has continued messy. If you have asked G-d for forgiveness for your sin, and asked your wife for the same, you need to move on. However, being unfamiliar with these things, perhaps Seagullplayer is right when it was suggested that you also need to seek forgiveness from her ex-husband.

When all that is settled, indeed, you need to move on and stop bringing it up.

Your wife sounds depressed in spite of the meds. A healthy person does not just lie about in bed. Perhaps a change in meds is in order?

Does she have a job/outside responsibilities other than rearing the two children?

You said that she doesn't respect you. That is important information you need to learn more about. You need to find out why and learn if there is something the two of you can work on regarding this.



stepstone -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/30/2008 6:04:04 PM)

Thank you for your comments and encouragement. A couple of you suggested I not point out her faults. Probably good advice since any time I say anything "critical" or "corrective" (like asking her not to cuss in front of the kids, or to try not to yell and fight with me, etc.) only provokes further angry outbursts. However, I find it difficult to just "tolerate" behavior when it is so destructive. Yesterday she slapped our seven year old son in the face because he wasn't listening. She told me about it after I got home from work, and then threatened me to not dare and give her a lecture as she continued spewing angry remarks at everyone. Our 12 yo daughter was crying at one point and she jumped all over her demanding to know what her problem is. Sometimes things quiet down for a few days, but all too often she is just angry and bitter and it is not healthy for anyone, including my wife. I love her, but I do not understand what the problem is and quite honestly I think it is largely self-induced and selfishness at the root. I have been praying, tried to be understanding, tried to correctly gently at times, rebuke sternly at others. NOTHING WORKS! She likes to watch tv programs about drug addicts and crazy people, gossips about her "friends", chastises me for reading books by godly people, misses no opportunity to point out my faults, won't read the Bible with me, states (almost proudly) that she hates cooking and cleaning (which is why I end up doing most of the chores and all of the cooking). I read stories and pray with the kids at night while she lays in bed updating her myspace page or watching tv. She expresses no physical or emotional interest in me. I buy her flowers, books, write her poems, and honestly make an effort even though most of the time I feel unappreciated. I JUST DON'T GET IT!



stepstone -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/30/2008 6:09:50 PM)

By the way, I don't how to contact her ex-husband. He remarried and moved of state. Even though there is good reason to suspect that he molested my daughter when she was two, I would still ask his forgiveness if I knew how to get in touch with him. He is not her paternal father. My wife got pregnant with another man out of wedlock. I adopted our daughter when we got married.



revbob4God -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/30/2008 6:33:30 PM)

First of all, your concern and efforts are great. I see nothing wrong with you going to your pastor and perhaps finding a way to get your wife to go for a physical with the doctor. I am wondering if perhaps she has a history of depression? It sounds like maybe this could be an issue. Just a thought.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/30/2008 7:30:17 PM)

There is a huge difference between normal occasional upset behavior in one and in abuse in another. What you wrote in post #10 looks like abuse to me. Further, according to this post, she is acting like Mother, and you are responding to all this as Father did to Mother -- passively.

What makes you think your daughter was molested? What is your evidence? If, indeed, she was abused, why are you going to do one kind thing toward him when, if he truly did this, he is probably still doing it to other children?

Why did your wife tell you that she had slapped your son in the face? To provoke you? Does she not understand that this is both emotional and physical abuse? Does she not understand that, if I understood your post, she is emotionally battering your daughter?

Your wife is so much like my mother that you are scaring me. I don't remember all the earlier posts or how I responded to them earlier at this point, but I would bet that your wife came from an abusive home. Further, I would bet that it was her mother who abused her, and her father was passive.

Here is what scares me:
I think she is a lot like me, because of the way she was reared, except that I determined not to abuse my children and used their whole childhood fighting all manner of abuse in both their lives and in the lives of others. I would further bet that she is fascinated by both evil and stupid people, as I am with Hitler and the people on Judge Judy. I would also bet that her natural affection and her empathy was crushed when she was a child, as mine was. I had to learn how to love and to learn how to have empathy for others by specifically praying for it, begging the L-rd for help, and teaching myself the best I knew how.

Now. I don't know what to tell you except that you are in a very precarious position, I believe, based on that later post. I think if you care about those children at all, you need to start documenting things where she will not find and destroy your documentation. And at this point, I will bring up that I would also bet that she can be devious. Document these things somewhere else -- not on your work computer but somewhere besides home.

Please forgive me if I have jumped to any conclusions I had no right to jump to, but this is what I am seeing.



stepstone -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/31/2008 12:55:48 AM)

FWIW - just to set a few things straight.

1) I do not know her ex-husband and only talked to him one time when he came over (after their divorce) to get his tv or something and they had a physical altercation outside her house. I ended up at the police station with her (and him). The only words we've ever exchanged were him saying her whole *(^% family was crazy.

2) My daughter told my wife some "game" he played with her that involved touching private parts, and not long after we got married, she (our daughter) had tried to touch mine a couple of times when she thought I was sleeping. It creeped me out, we had to have a talk with her, and it just seemed like strange behavior for a 3 yo to have thought up on her own. Wife took her to doctor but examination would have been more troubling I think than not knowing, so there's speculation but no proof.

3) Divorce was final; no custody battle. My wife has not spoken to him since the divorce. I only brought this up in the original post b/c I am concerned that she seems to have no remorse or repentance over the fact that our relationship began with sin and error. I guess in my mind it seems like if we could BOTH recognize our sin against God and repent maybe these dark clouds would start to lift.

She did not grow up in an abusive home, but her dad cheated on her mom when she was in high school, shattering the hero image she had of him. I think a lot of her anger and her distrust of men stems from that. Her mom can be a very emotionally 'cool' person--what I mean is when you do or say something that she disapproves of, you definitely know it. Icy. Unpleasant. I think my wife has this tendency as well, but it does not take much to evoke her ire.

Yes, she tends to be drawn to dark personalities it seems, broken types, whatever. Takes 3 or 4 medications for depression, anxiety, sleep... She brags on how great I am as a husband and father sometimes (especially when it makes her look like a loving wife to do so--I know that sounds bad, but it's true), but when it's just us you'd think I had horns and a pitchfork the way she treats me. I love her, I love my kids, I love the Lord. I am trying to be a spiritual leader in my home. I have done everything I can think of to do, but she seems to dwell in darkness instead of light. And that's why I originally titled this post "Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife?" I do NOT want my wife to perish in the lake of fire. She says she got saved when she was 8 or 9, but since then her life is hardly a testimony of holiness. Now we all sin and mess up, but during the process of sanctification, there should be some kind of evidence, some sort of trajectory, some transformation toward His likeness. My greatest concern for my wife is for her eternal soul, and the same is true of my kids. And my greatest fear is that if things continue they have, my kids will not desire to walk with God because they will see our faith as hypocrisy. I know only the Lord saves and He saves who He will. But I want so badly to live a life that is pleasing and honoring to Him, to be a godly man leading a godly family, and doing everything I can to help my children grow up to be godly people with their own godly families.

I am thinking that I probably need to talk to my pastor. The only reason that I haven't is because I don't want him to see her as some horrible person. I don't want to make her look bad. I don't want to make her feel bad. But I cannot just "be quiet and love her" as some here have suggested when her behavior is making everyone (including herself) so completely miserable. Our house is not a sanctuary. It is a prison and an asylum, and it ought NOT be that way!

Thank you for listening, caring, sharing. This has been an extremely painful experience and I really wish I knew what to do (besides pray). Nothing seems to make things better, and that is disheartening. And, like I said, I really do think that the biggest part of the problem is not her rebellion against me--that is just one of the indicators of her rebellion against God. But she doesn't even see it.

Sigh. I am spent. I don't know what else to say. May God please have mercy on this family.

SS



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (7/31/2008 1:29:48 AM)

You know, Stone, I tried, and I was way off-base. The only thing I was right about is that she is like my mother. I jumped to conclusion about her, because what you wrote makes her seem to me to be like Mother. That really scares me. I would be horrified to learn that any child was reared similarly.

So I have no words of wisdom, no advice left. I will pray, because G-d knows what is going on; I don't.



joeysei -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (8/2/2008 12:36:22 AM)

I see i am alittle late in the imput here but I can tell you from experience that none of desicsions to act the way she acts as you describe are your fault. I have lived thru what you have are describing. Revilement, bitterness, ungreatfulness, rebellion, and on and on. Oh but she loves Jesus. Listen the only answer is to be broken at the foot of the cross for her. Don't jam her up with scripture, or tell her she is heading down the wrong path. Pray and get intercessors to pray, while she is still living in the marriage. The problem is within her, not you or any circumstance. You need to understand way down deep, you can't change anybody. Only Jesus can. I found out to late, my wife left and is "off to the races". She hasn't turned around for God, church, me, or anything. Be loving and supportive, and make yourself available for heart talks if the opportunity presents itself, even if you have to leave work to do it, do it right away and make sure she knows it is important to you. If you don't talk to your wife the Devil will, I know what i'm talking about. I don't know about your prayer life, but learn to cry out in prayer, like you are trying to get somebodies attention across the field. like the beggar by the gate who cried, "son of David have mercy on me." Pray, pray, pray! praise and worship. Finaly I pray for you, and your wife and ask God to cover you and your wife, and marriage, with Love, mercy, and grace, that the covenent will prevail and your marriage will be retored. In the name of the Living King, Jesus. amen.



carl54 -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (8/10/2008 8:52:08 PM)

Stepstone -- We don't have all the answers but God does. Our default position is always to obey God and leave the consequences of that obedience in his hands. That means love your wife whether she is deserving or not, quit correcting/directing/finding fault with her (simply hold her up in prayer), do what you have to do to take care of yourself and your kids (dishes, laundry, cooking, etc.), take your kids to church routinely, pray a lot. God is faithful. God tells us we should endure hardships when they come, we should not respond negatively when we are mistreated, and we should remain faithful in the face of adversity. It seems like its your time to endure. I suggest you read 1 Peter. It is full of comforting words regarding longsuffering, patience and obedience when trials come our way. One of the main teachings is that tribulations will only last for a while (1 Pet 1:6, 5:10). I especially like Ch 4:12-19.

Casting all your cares upon Him, for He cares for you (1 Pet 5:7).



Sadey -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (8/12/2008 9:34:53 AM)

I think your first concern should be your children. Your wife is mentally off balance and your children are suffering. She slapped your 7 year old in the face? That is still considered child abuse isn't it? Your daughter was obviously sexually abused and you both dropped the ball on that. Trust me, she isn't okay and needs help to deal with the abuse.

Because your wife's behaviour is so over the top, loud , in your face and abrasive, the other things going on aren't even noticed. When you live with someone like that they take all your time and energy and everything else is forgotten.
I hope you will go to your pastor and get some help before your children are so wounded that they pay for it the rest of their lives. Please get some help for yourself and your children. We have a family member like your wife and reasoning with them is not the way to go.

I hope that some day you will have peace in your family. Please become the hero in your children's lives.



revbob4God -> RE: Concerned Husband, Unconverted Wife? (8/12/2008 9:45:54 AM)

Yes, agree with Sadey, the children are the most important thing, except maybe your strength and resolve.



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