RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (Full Version)

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rcjames -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/17/2008 5:08:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: p31woman

"For them, he's often the first and only religious figure to have walked them through the Bible verse by verse."

I think people really *want* to dig into the Word, rather than hear another 3-point, topical, 20-minute sermonette, but too few churches do it.[/font]


It is not the "Walking" them through the Word that is the problem; it is His heretical commentary and intrepretation of the Word of God that leads astray.

He was ordained by and is very close in his teaching to the "Idenity Church" movement which is just racism in drag.

Jim Jones used the Bible as his foundation for teaching.

David Koresh used the Bible as his foundation for teaching.

All false teachers use the Bible as their foundation for thier false teaching.



Thanks
RC



Ezra -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/18/2008 12:23:17 AM)

quote:

Did you or anyone else see my question:
How can you tell the difference between false teachings from a real teacher and false teachings from false teacher?


False teaching from false teachers is a "package" of false doctrines to which the they are totally committed and would consistenly uphold regardless of what Scripture really teaches, e.g. the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Mormons. Indeed they are committed to vigorously propagating their false doctrine and winning new "converts" to their beliefs.

False teaching from true teachers would be rare (if at all) and they would hopefully correct their false teaching when it is pointed out. I say "hopefully" because there are very few Christians who are prepared to honestly re-evaluate their false beliefs when shown the truth from Scripture. We see this daily on these forums.

Therefore, in a nutshell, it boils down to the seriousness and pervasiveness of false doctrine from any quarter. Those who are sound will generally be sound. Nonetheless, we are to "Prove all things. Hold fast to that which is good", and "To him that standeth, let him take heed, lest he fall".



Ezra -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/18/2008 12:37:49 AM)

quote:

How do you handle it when a leader you personally know and trust to be the real deal messes up? Ingore it, tell them, wait and hope the right person points out their mistake, leave the church?


"Messes up" could mean a lot of different things, but if a man begins to teach false doctrine, you can certainly approach him personally or write him and point it out. If he persists in holding to his doctrine, you have done your part and you should move on.

If you are a new Christian and you have several elders in your church, you could also approach one whom you know to be sound, and express your concerns. If he fails to address the issue, then again it's time to move on.

False doctrine is generally subtle and grows by degrees. If it is not addressed and corrected immediately, it simply mushrooms.



Ezra -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/18/2008 12:48:08 AM)

quote:

All false teachers use the Bible as their foundation for thier false teaching.


This is true. Therefore every Christian has a duty, an obligation, and a responsibility to (1) study to show himself approved unto God, (2) become a "workman" who rightly interprets the Word and (3) search the Scriptures daily.

The Lord provides evangelists, pastors, and teachers to enable other Christians to grow in grace and in the knowledge of our God and Savior. Bu that does not exempt the Christian from personally laboring in the Word and in doctrine (not necessarily going to commentaries either).

Bible schools and seminaries are not necessarily fountains of sound doctrine. If anything, too many of them are just the opposite. Therefore they too must be carefully evaluated for genuine sound doctrine.

Too many Christians are spending their time watching TV when they should be hard at work in systematically studying the Scriptures. Thus, when they are fed false doctrine, they have no basis upon which to evaluate its soundness. And they become easy prey for the wolves.



bluestone -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/18/2008 1:42:48 PM)

Some teach error unknowingly..but will recant when proven wrong. I think that would be a true teacher with false message.

A false teacher will never (or rarely) recant...will continue, and their bizarre "errorology" will grow more strange as time goes by.



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 7:09:14 AM)

quote:

As a new Christian, I noticed that we are quick to pick apart different denominations or churches.

My thoughts are no leader or church is perfect; we are all still human…We are quick to dismiss a denomination or teacher for just about any mistake, but, when I tend to have this black and white sort of attitude towards sin in my life or worldly things, I am told I am being too legalistic.

If being saved by grace is all that matters; then why are we so picky when it comes to denominations or teachers that essentially believe Jesus died for our sins and that he is our only ticket to heaven but, have some other flaws here or there?
Slimon... I should probably caution you about what happens to people who are level-headed about doctrinal disagreement. As someone who has borne many epithets across many platforms of communication (particularly sharply on the internet) for defending the character of those deemed "false teachers" by someone who believes they know whatof they speak... it usually isn't pretty if you attempt to defend the character of unpopular individuals.

Rule of thumb... "if someone is off, they are most likely doing so honestly and not attempting to lead souls to hell. When you see sin in your own life, kill it."

Early Christians founded Monasteries specifically to flee the influence of the world and their sinful desires, but the battleground is inside. Mostly, I find that the term "legalism" appears only when someone attempts to cleanse themselves radically of sin. The question is why? If you start to shine, it brings up imperfections in those around you. Person to person, I tell you that you are free to run after God as hard and as fast as you know how. Anthony of Alexandria spent 20 years alone in an abandoned fortress in the hills of Egypt specifically to be with God... and yet he is one of the brightest lights of his time in the existence of the church.

Fast and pray... keep a night prayer vigil... if you feel the conviction of God about what comes through the television, unplug it! Yet in all of this, remember that the battlefield is the interior life.

"The soul's energy is at its highest when the desires of the body are at their feeblest."-- Anthony of Alexandria

"It is much easier for people to be converted from mortal to (willful) sins than from (willful) sins to saintly virtue." --Thomas Dubay

Adam



earthless -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 10:22:22 AM)

Adam,

Nothing wrong with what you said, per se. The problem is that bonafide false teachers and false prophets are not worthy to be defended as bearing God's Word, but you do just that.



turtleman -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 8:28:12 PM)

Many preachers have gotten into error in various ways does this make them false teachers or heretics? No all it means is that they got it wrong in one area or another. For instance there is a preacher that many on this forum agree with who taught, for years that divorced people were second class christians unfit to serve the church. This did not make him a false teacher or a heretic it only showed his error. If we wished we could go tit for tat on accusations but, this would only divide the body. We all see in and know in part no one has it all correct. My advise to all is to filter any teaching through scripture. If it lines up with the Bible then it is correct if not discard it.



earthless -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 8:49:23 PM)

turtleman,

About how "no one gets everything right.." that shows a very common theme for Western Christians - that they are missing a very basic principle of Christianity. What is it?

That there are core essentials (core teachings/beliefs/doctrines) that are what make Christianity, Christianity.

Those are not up for debate and those are not items which we can disagree upon and still call one another brothers and sisters in the Lord.

BUT

There are a multitude of items (hence the number of denominations) which are not core essentials. Which are secondary issues which we can vigorously debate in house but for which we do not have to divide over.

Like the old adage - "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity."

The items brought forth that we're calling false teachings are shown to be such with Scripture. And those items are things which are core essentials (the nature of God, Jesus' atonement on the cross, etc..).



turtleman -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 9:01:22 PM)

As I understand it the core teachings of Christianity are: ! Jesus is the son of God who lived, was crucified, and rose again on the thrid day.
2. He did this to enable man to obtain salvation and right standing with God
3 That God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are one.
4 That one must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord to be saved.
5 That the Bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God.
I have heard many preachers accused of various false teachings on this forum. Yet they all preach Christ the only way to salvation. If that sstandard was good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.



earthless -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 9:13:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: turtleman

As I understand it the core teachings of Christianity are: ! Jesus is the son of God who lived, was crucified, and rose again on the thrid day.
2. He did this to enable man to obtain salvation and right standing with God
3 That God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are one.
4 That one must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth that Jesus is Lord to be saved.
5 That the Bible is the inspired and inerrant word of God.
I have heard many preachers accused of various false teachings on this forum. Yet they all preach Christ the only way to salvation. If that sstandard was good enough for Paul it is good enough for me.


Please feel free to go to those threads where you feel that has happened and address the concerns from other self-professing Christians.



slimon11 -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/20/2008 9:50:37 PM)

Thanks for your thoughtful responses. I guess one could view this forum as a church. Just as in real life, the more we express our thoughts in public, the more chances we have to mess up. I know there are lots of members so, there is some accountability but; there are 5000+ viewers at one time and, our thoughts of the moment are permanently stored in internet history.

I usually stick to asking questions but, every one in a while I will feel moved to answer. I am sure that in the future most of us will look back at at least one post and think: “I really posted that?” I am sure God is looking at some of our posts too thinking: “Please, please just stop typing.”

Do you think we need to be super careful of what we post here in order not to deceive?

Or,

Do you think that most viewers will understand that we are all in the growth process and simply discussing what we know of God, speaking out of our love for Him; and that we are all at different places in our walk?

Thanks in advance for the answers I will recieve. [;)]



FurGodWurLivin -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/22/2008 4:08:43 AM)

quote:

The problem is that bonafide false teachers and false prophets are not worthy to be defended as bearing God's Word, but you do just that.
Thank you for making my point for me, earthless........

quote:

Do you think we need to be super careful of what we post here in order not to deceive?

Or,

Do you think that most viewers will understand that we are all in the growth process and simply discussing what we know of God, speaking out of our love for Him; and that we are all at different places in our walk?
Speaking as a bona fide cynical individual, most people aren't going to be thinking in terms of "they just need to mature a bit..." Personally, I try to craft my answers to be direct without being overly combative. I know I fail... more than I like to admit... but I think it is important to remain civil and as diplomatic as possible. Jesus has "grace... poured upon (His) lips", so I think it does the best testimony to Him to speak as gracefully as possible... even in the midst of disagreement.

In short, I think the question of "should we" is pretty moot. It's just what we ought to be doing no matter what the circumstance.

Adam



slimon11 -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/28/2008 12:07:23 AM)

Thanks Adam, I agree that we need to be careful of what we post, what we say, how we represent Christ whenever we talk about Him. Online would seem like a more impersonal and appropriate place to bring up issues such as those in this section but, I still think we need to be careful. Here’s a little story, a reason why I tend to be cautious when discussing differences:

I was part of a forum that’s primary discussions involved investment opportunities, although it did have a religion section. Not many of us posted in the religion section, about 10 christians, 3 decided unbelievers, 3 agnostics and 1 muslim. All the christians came from very different backgrounds. When we had debates with the non-believers, we came to together beautifully, each expressing the same point from a different godly perspective, making it easier for some to understand what we believe.

However, after a year or so, the conversation turned inward, discussing differences in beliefs among christians. Once the topics turned, many people got hurt and stopped posting. I remember a woman Pmed me telling, me she thought the other christians did not value her posts once they found out she was a woman. Another christian wrote me saying she would no long post after being told a teacher she followed was false because, she could now imagine how the unbeliever felt when we told them they were wrong. The religion section died and a year later, still no one posts in the section...It is sad because we seemed to be the perfect montage before we knew how we were different.

All the responses have been helpful. I do see the importance of staying away from false teaching but, my struggle of figuring out the right place and time to discuss these idea still remains.



slimon11 -> RE: Question for our vigilant “Church” watchers. (7/28/2008 12:21:35 AM)

There are so many great writers in this seciton. You guys have great deductive reasoning skills, gifts that would make you sucessful when talking with unbelievers. I sometimes wish there were more atheists on this fourm, they ask good questions too.



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