Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (Full Version)

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modu -> Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/11/2008 5:20:54 PM)

With all reverence to my Lord, let us use spiritual revelations based on the Holy Scripture.
God bless...
vmodu.com



MrFribbles -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/11/2008 7:37:00 PM)

Jesus is the Christ. Christ is not a name, it is a title. Christ literally means Messiah. ...I don't see where the problem here is.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/11/2008 10:20:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: modu

With all reverence to my Lord, let us use spiritual revelations based on the Holy Scripture.
God bless...
vmodu.com


Jesus is the seed of the woman of Gen 3:15; the seed of Abraham; seed of Isaac; Seed of Jacob/Israel; Seed of Jesse; seed of David; son of Mary; brother of Israel's children, and is the son of God.

Christ (Greek) and Messiah (Hebrew) both mean "anointed."



evry1needsgod -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 6:37:47 PM)

Both the same person.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 7:29:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

Both the same person.


yes!



evry1needsgod -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 8:03:31 PM)

quote:

yes!


OH MY GOODNESS!!!!! Um, TB, did we just agree on something? [:D]



earthless -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 9:08:39 PM)

Jesus is God almighty! I believe in the only true God (John 17:3), the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19), Who created all things (Revelation 4:11), and upholds all things by the word of His power (Hebrews 1:3), in Whom we live, and move and have our being (Acts 17:28), a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is He (Deuteronomy 32:4), and He shall judge the world (Psalm 9:8).

I believe that the Godhead eternally exists in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; and that these three are one God, having precisely the same nature, attributes, and perfections, and worthy of precisely the same homage, confidence and obedience (Mark 12:29; John 1:1-4; Matthew 28:19,20; Acts 5:3,4; 2 Corinthians 13:14; Hebrews 1:1-3; Revelation 1:4-6).



evry1needsgod -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 9:20:39 PM)

Nice comprehensive post there earthless! Me likes.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 9:21:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

quote:

yes!


OH MY GOODNESS!!!!! Um, TB, did we just agree on something? [:D]


Probably not. We agreed that Messiah and Christ mean the same thing, but not that they are always the same individual in scripture. My reference is to the old testament scriptures.

Priests and kings were Messiah in Hebrew, and Xristos in Greek. Jesus is called "ton Xriston Kuriou" in Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen ton Xriston Kuriou [The Lord's Christ]."

But David called Saul "ton Xriston Kuriou" in 1 Sam 26:15 "And David said to Abner, Art not thou a valiant man? and who is like to thee in Israel? wherefore then hast thou not kept thy lord the king? for there came one of the people in to destroy the king thy lord. 16 This thing is not good that thou hast done. As the LORD liveth, ye are worthy to die, ye who guard your Lord the king, ton Criston kuriou [the anointed of the Lord]. And now see where the king's spear is, and the cruse of water that was at his head.

And the Priest of God was called "ho Xristos" in Lev 4:5, and Jesus is called "ho Xristos" in Mat 2:4.

So the ancient priest and kings of God were called "the Lord's anointed" jsut exactly the same way Jesus is called God's anointed.

So I am not sure if we are saying the same thing or not. What say ye?



earthless -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 9:23:13 PM)

Theo,

So do you not agree with what I posted? Who do you say Jesus is?



evry1needsgod -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 9:48:24 PM)

Ugh TB, you're such a party pooper! You killed my joke! LOL [:D]

But you might be right. However, I have absolutely no clue of one word you said in your post other than the first two words. After that, I was lost. I would like an answer to earthless' question, because that would most likely clarify my "cluelessness" (I like making words up) of your post.

But, here is all I gathered from your post. After some research, the name "Messiah" was never attributed to any other individual other than Jesus Christ.

Your parallel between Lev 4:5 and Matt 2:4 is not as black and white as you make it seem. One verse calls the priests anointed, the other calls Jesus "Christ." The last time I checked, NO ONE has been called Jesus or Christ other that Jesus Christ Himself. The anointed priests were not called Messiahs OR Christs, so I don't quite understand the point of your post. But, this research was done from the KJV, and I'm not real into all that Greek and Hebrew mumbo-jumbo. Honestly, I don't really trust it a whole lot, because I've seen it abused TOO often. The Calvinism vs Arminianism debate is a perfect example of the abusive usage of the Greek and Hebrew languages, so throwing big words such as the ones you have above are almost meaningless to me. I have absolutely no knowledge of the ancient languages, so if you do use them, you will have to explain in detail. Thanks.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 10:21:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Theo,

So do you not agree with what I posted? Who do you say Jesus is?


Did you read and agree with post number three? THAT is who I said Jesus is. You ask if I agree with who YOU say he is. Do you agree with who I say he is.



earthless -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 10:29:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Theo,

So do you not agree with what I posted? Who do you say Jesus is?


Did you read and agree with post number three? THAT is who I said Jesus is. You ask if I agree with who YOU say he is. Do you agree with who I say he is.


Your response is too vague for such a serious question that does indeed serve a 'the' line of demarcation between what is biblical Christianity and what is of the kingdom of the cults.

In light of what I just said above.. do you agree with my first post in this thread? Yes or no?



evry1needsgod -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 10:39:10 PM)

TB:

I think the problem earthless and I are having is definitions. You are (as is typical of you from reading other threads) throwing out very odd (but not necessarily wrong) definitions of words. You're a very smart individual, and the problem is you are making such a simple concept more complex than it needs to be. You are placing extremely complex definitions on otherwise simple words. Regardless, I doubt you believe anything radical, just confusing. [;)]



bob97 -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/12/2008 10:41:49 PM)

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Col 1:15-16)

Bob



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/13/2008 8:50:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
(Col 1:15-16)

Bob


"WHETHER THEY BE" is a limiting parameter telling us which of the "all things" are being considered. It is speaking of the "new creation" which is in Christ Jesus, not the original creation, of which God said "I (first-person-singular) did alone."

Jesus said that when he and the Father are together, they are "ouk monos" (not alone). [John 16:32]

Jehovah God said "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I (first-person-singular) am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens (monos = Jesus is absent) alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;" [Isa 44:24]

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I (first-person-singular) the LORD have created it.

12 I (first-person-singular) have made the earth, and created man upon it: I (first-person-singular), even my (first-person-singular-possessive) hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I (first-person-singular) commanded.

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I (first-person-singular) am the LORD; and there is none else." [Isa 45:8,12,18]

The use of first-person-singular over and over certainly addresses the
"number of persons" involved in the action.



modu -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/13/2008 2:21:33 PM)

Very important issue to the Holy Spirit and I urge us to treat this topic with utmost reverence. The person of Jesus is the only One Anointed (Christ) to save and freely give the very life of God the Father (Eternal life) to humanity forever. They are one and inseparable. The person of Jesus was the heavenly object; while in the Anointing (Christ) was the spiritual (heavenly) mandate or office.
vmodu.com



DreadPirateRandy -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/13/2008 3:28:06 PM)

Jesus is Yehoshu'a meaning ""YAHWEH is salvation".
YAHWEH, the personal name of God, means "to become".
Christ/Christos means "to anoint", but the Hebrew translation is "Messiah", which also means "anointed".

Jesus = God is salvation.
God = YAHWEH = to become.
Christ = Messiah/anointed.
Anointed = to choose by or as if by divine intervention.

He had to become the divine intervention that would fulfill the prophecy of the coming Messiah, all for the sake of salvation promised by the Father. Which was all a choice on His behalf.



SinnerSaved -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/13/2008 4:07:27 PM)

Matthew 16:16-17

And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.



earthless -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/13/2008 6:17:36 PM)

Theo,

Whenever you get a chance.. I am still waiting for your answer to my question, thank you.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/14/2008 7:10:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Theo,

Whenever you get a chance.. I am still waiting for your answer to my question, thank you.


Re-read posts 3,9, and 16 and tell me what there is in them that YOU disagree with. You already have "your answer."



earthless -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/14/2008 8:14:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Theo,

Whenever you get a chance.. I am still waiting for your answer to my question, thank you.


Re-read posts 3,9, and 16 and tell me what there is in them that YOU disagree with. You already have "your answer."


Why the need for your games? No Christian should have a problem with answering yes to my post which describes who Scripture says God is.

Color me wrong - but I have a feeling you do not agrees with my first post in this thread. I asked you for a simple yes or no to it and you, for some reason, can't seem to do that.



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/14/2008 12:54:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: theo_book

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

Theo,

Whenever you get a chance.. I am still waiting for your answer to my question, thank you.


Re-read posts 3,9, and 16 and tell me what there is in them that YOU disagree with. You already have "your answer."


Why the need for your games? No Christian should have a problem with answering yes to my post which describes who Scripture says God is.

Color me wrong - but I have a feeling you do not agrees with my first post in this thread. I asked you for a simple yes or no to it and you, for some reason, can't seem to do that.


For the simple reason I posted good sound scripture with good sound exegesis, and you required that I say it your way. I don't play that game, and will not be intimidated by YOU or anybody else. You say I fail to note my agreement with your way of saying it. I notice YOU failed to aknowledge the truth of my posts,

Get over it.



WesP -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/14/2008 3:48:55 PM)

quote:

For the simple reason I posted good sound scripture with good sound exegesis, and you required that I say it your way. I don't play that game, and will not be intimidated by YOU or anybody else. You say I fail to note my agreement with your way of saying it. I notice YOU failed to aknowledge the truth of my posts,

Get over it.


The problem is that you are embarking on a foreign language study, and there are inconsistencies between your post #16 and parts of the bible. You seem to be separating Jesus and God, which is incorrect. Therein lies the confusion that drives earthless to question your exact meaning. If you notice his post, it is much more detailed and extensive than yours. It is not intimidation that he is attempting; it is clarification. To be fair, I am somewhat confused by your post as well. Posts 3 and 5 could not be more clear. No problems there. In post 9, are you separating God from Jesus and establishing them as distinct and different identities?



theo_book -> RE: Who is Jesus? Who is Christ? (7/14/2008 4:51:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesP

quote:

For the simple reason I posted good sound scripture with good sound exegesis, and you required that I say it your way. I don't play that game, and will not be intimidated by YOU or anybody else. You say I fail to note my agreement with your way of saying it. I notice YOU failed to aknowledge the truth of my posts,

Get over it.


The problem is that you are embarking on a foreign language study, and there are inconsistencies between your post #16 and parts of the bible. You seem to be separating Jesus and God, which is incorrect. Therein lies the confusion that drives earthless to question your exact meaning. If you notice his post, it is much more detailed and extensive than yours. It is not intimidation that he is attempting; it is clarification. To be fair, I am somewhat confused by your post as well. Posts 3 and 5 could not be more clear. No problems there. In post 9, are you separating God from Jesus and establishing them as distinct and different identities?

quote:



Post # 9 (theo) Probably not. We agreed that Messiah and Christ mean the same thing, but not that they are always the same individual in scripture. My reference is to the old testament scriptures.

Priests and kings were Messiah in Hebrew, and Xristos in Greek. Jesus is called "ton Xriston Kuriou" in Luke 2:26 "And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen ton Xriston Kuriou [The Lord's Christ]."

But David called Saul "ton Xriston Kuriou" in 1 Sam 26:15 "And David said to Abner, Art not thou a valiant man? and who is like to thee in Israel? wherefore then hast thou not kept thy lord the king? for there came one of the people in to destroy the king thy lord. 16 This thing is not good that thou hast done. As the LORD liveth, ye are worthy to die, ye who guard your Lord the king, ton Criston kuriou [the anointed of the Lord]. And now see where the king's spear is, and the cruse of water that was at his head.

And the Priest of God was called "ho Xristos" in Lev 4:5, and Jesus is called "ho Xristos" in Mat 2:4.

So the ancient priest and kings of God were called "the Lord's anointed" jsut exactly the same way Jesus is called God's anointed.

So I am not sure if we are saying the same thing or not. What say ye?


So WesP, which of the above scriptures do you say is separating God from Christ? I do not see that at all. All I see is the historical use of the terminology "Messiah" and "Xristos" showing God always and consistently used it to reference those whom he ordained. (Which is the meaning of both "Messiah, and "Xristos." Is there a problem with that?



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