|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 8/30/2008 9:40:53 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
I haven't heard even one candidate recommend this type of "socialized" health care. Not one. In fact, I haven't heard any politician yet set out the specifics of his/her plan. While I am not in favor of just turning everything over to the government to run, I do believe we need some kind of restructuring inAmerica so that everyone has some kind of coverage, whether through an employer plan, or a state plan, or what have you. I'm coming into this late, but as a physician who spent 12 years working for the largest HMO in the free world (US Army Medical Corps) back in the 80's, I have some relevant insight. The government has no moral, constitutional, or competent professional basis for "taking over" health care in this or any other country. The health insurance industry is in shambles because their goal is making money, NOT improving the quality of health care. Far too many of my fellow physicians have given up on the doctor-patient relationship because patients don't pay, instead their insurance pays (and rather poorly!), and that insurance is purchased by big uncaring businesses trying to save as much money as possible. If you really want health care reform, why not turn back to simple fee-for-service medicine and let the doctor and the patient determine the amount, quality, and cost of health care!
On a less emotional note, let me share some very basic economic facts. There are three aspects of health care - accessibility, affordability, and quality. It is economically impossible to maximize all three. Everyone cannot receive the highest quality care at the lowest possible cost. If you want "universal coverage" it will automatically increase cost and/or decrease quality. If you want the cheapest care, it will automatically decrease access and/or decrease quality. If you want the highest quality, it will automatically decrease access and/or increase cost. This is a very simple balance that cannot be changed economically and the average person is in la-la land to think that the government can provide the best and cheapest care to everyone!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/1/2008 12:58:17 PM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I haven't heard even one candidate recommend this type of "socialized" health care. Not one. In fact, I haven't heard any politician yet set out the specifics of his/her plan. While I am not in favor of just turning everything over to the government to run, I do believe we need some kind of restructuring inAmerica so that everyone has some kind of coverage, whether through an employer plan, or a state plan, or what have you. I'm coming into this late, but as a physician who spent 12 years working for the largest HMO in the free world (US Army Medical Corps) back in the 80's, I have some relevant insight. The government has no moral, constitutional, or competent professional basis for "taking over" health care in this or any other country. The health insurance industry is in shambles because their goal is making money, NOT improving the quality of health care. Far too many of my fellow physicians have given up on the doctor-patient relationship because patients don't pay, instead their insurance pays (and rather poorly!), and that insurance is purchased by big uncaring businesses trying to save as much money as possible. If you really want health care reform, why not turn back to simple fee-for-service medicine and let the doctor and the patient determine the amount, quality, and cost of health care!
On a less emotional note, let me share some very basic economic facts. There are three aspects of health care - accessibility, affordability, and quality. It is economically impossible to maximize all three. Everyone cannot receive the highest quality care at the lowest possible cost. If you want "universal coverage" it will automatically increase cost and/or decrease quality. If you want the cheapest care, it will automatically decrease access and/or decrease quality. If you want the highest quality, it will automatically decrease access and/or increase cost. This is a very simple balance that cannot be changed economically and the average person is in la-la land to think that the government can provide the best and cheapest care to everyone!
Hallelujah! Welcome to the debate, Doc! Great post!
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/2/2008 2:02:26 AM
|
|
|
78frogger
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
I'm newer to this conversation and tried to read many of the posts but most seemed way off topic.
Has anyone mentioned that we do not in any way have a free market for health care?
State regulations favor certain companies and often there is almost no competition for coverage. Where I live there is ONE major company that provides all coverage. There may be another smaller one that no one uses that I don't know of but as far as I know there is one not including Medicaid and Medicare.
Competition is what makes capitalism work not the fact people pay for it versus the state. If we have government induced monopolies (the only kind that can really exist) then of course we are going to pay extremely high prices.
Ever notice that things that people are less worried and passionate about have LESS regulation and provide better service for lower prices? How many options do you have for car insurance compared to health insurance and which one gives you the better rate? If they don't give you a good rate you switch. If they don't give you good service or try to deny your legitimate claim you switch. They have to do a good job or go out of business.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/2/2008 3:08:52 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
The health insurance industry is in shambles because their goal is making money, NOT improving the quality of health care. Far too many of my fellow physicians have given up on the doctor-patient relationship because patients don't pay, instead their insurance pays (and rather poorly!), and that insurance is purchased by big uncaring businesses trying to save as much money as possible. Wow, could not agree more! Didn't used to be this way in America, what do you think changed things?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/2/2008 3:40:24 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
Oh, it's obvious what's changed. Big government mentality has run amok since FDR's New Deal and LBJ's Medicare debacle. Nowadays, many folks can only think of health care a right to be guaranteed at all cost. The fact is that no constitutional or even moral basis for free unrestricted access to universal healthcare exists in the USA. We must address this controversial issue: Healthcare - Right or Privelege?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/2/2008 4:48:33 PM
|
|
|
78frogger
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
So you believe that at one time people did not care about profits? I'm not sure how a doctor would feed his family if he didn't TRY to make some profit.
Businesses are people. The investors are people the labor put into the business is done by people. So if you don't want business to make money I certainly hope that you do NOT work for a wage of any kind. After all you should do it out of the charity of your heart. I also hope that you do not have any money invested with the intention of making money.
The truth is profit is a great incentive to get people to invest money where others want them to. We want drugs. Great. We have to be able to find people who will give up their money and it's utility to them for awhile to research and market drugs. We can't ask them to do that for nothing or they WON'T. Then we will have no drugs.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/2/2008 11:08:45 PM
|
|
|
gmc4Jesus
Posts: 227
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
|
If I remember the Constitution of the United States, there is nothing in there about the government providing health care, social assistance or welfare. One of the first purposes of the government is to protect us against enemies foreign and domestic. If we put our money into that, a lot of illegal aliens who are milking our system dry would be prevented from doing so. Healthcare would be restored to the tax paying citizens. Costs would go down and overall health care would improve.
Let's get our government refocused on its priorities. Read the Constitution and then advise your legislators to do the same.
God will bless America only as long as America blesses God.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 12:05:03 AM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
So you believe that at one time people did not care about profits? No, I am old enough to remember when businesses realized that they had other responsibilities other than to just their shareholders. I remember when profit wasn't the ONLY motive as it is now.
quote:
If I remember the Constitution of the United States, there is nothing in there about the government providing health care, social assistance or welfare. It state very clearly that one of the functions of government is to watch out for the "general welfare" of its people. That cuts a pretty broad swath of what government can get involved in if it's deemed to be in the public good.
If private business can't get it's priorities in order - and that means something other than profit being the ONLY motive - then the government does have the right (and I would argue the responsibility) to step in and make changes by force of law. That is what happened with FDR's New Deal, the Civil Rights laws, Head Start and Medicare to name just a few programs/laws.
quote:
The investors are people the labor put into the business is done by people. So if you don't want business to make money I certainly hope that you do NOT work for a wage of any kind. Uh, I don't believe I even hinted that I don't believe business should make a profit. I just don't believe it is their only reaon for being, nor should it be a business's only motive.
Wow, when CHRISTIANS can't see that profit as the only motive is a not a good thing....we really are headed in the wrong direction in this country.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 12:48:39 AM
|
|
|
SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
It state very clearly that one of the functions of government is to watch out for the "general welfare" of its people. That cuts a pretty broad swath of what government can get involved in if it's deemed to be in the public good.
Given the mindset of the those who wrote those words the last thing they had in mind was a broad swath of what government can get involved in if it's deemed to be in the public good. They liken the "broad swath of what government can get involved in..." to the tyranny they shed blood against...
quote:
Uh, I don't believe I even hinted that I don't believe business should make a profit. I just don't believe it is their only reaon for being, nor should it be a business's only motive.
What should be the priority of a business? Let me guess, giving people health care?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 2:45:31 AM
|
|
|
78frogger
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
I do see profit as a good thing. If a business cannot make a profit then it cannot stay in business no matter how good the product or service provided is. Therefore there does not exist a business that doesn't make a profit. At least not for long before it goes bankrupt.
I do not believe human nature has changed since sin entered the world. Some people will be kind and helpful and giving and that is charity not business. Well run businesses might be able to afford being charitable but if they have stockholders then it is not necessarily their money to just give away. Giving away a service or product or doing things in an unproductive manner is all giving away their money.
It was FDR who in the process of regulating pay made businesses find other ways to compensate their employees. If they couldn't keep them by giving them a wage then they would offer health insurance benefits. It was a way of getting around a Federal regulation that started these businesses called insurance companies. Then the states greatly limited which companies could provide you with service through their regulations and so now you have monopolies or very few competitors. In other words you have government regulation to thank for getting us into the situation we are in. I believe what is best for the people is getting rid of a lot of the state regulations that don't let in competing companies in so there can be competition to be the BEST health insurance company rather then the only one allowed. I know some states have more providers then others but in general state regulations are making it very hard for competitors to come in.
When I go to an individual doctor and they find out I don't have insurance or I have a huge deductible they will work with me to find the cheapest drugs and stuff. Even without the extra help as far as trying to find ways to do things they are still helping me IF they can diagnose me or whatever I need done. They can't always help though if it will not pay for their malpractice insurance, equipment, rent, utilities, and whatever else doctors have to pay before they even start getting some of the pay for themselves.
Large Government is going to be the same as big business. They won't know me or my situation. Maybe you have had to deal with Medicare. Do you really think the employees of Medicare care about you or do they just want to get their job done and go home? Even if that means you don't get something done you need or if the doctor won't take their low payment. It is not likely they will care that much about the 40th person they've helped that week. To them you are just another name on the list that has to be done before they go home. Well, actually government employees usually go home at closing time whether or not they are done. There may be exceptions to the rule but they are going to be few and far between. That's just human nature.
I guess I wonder why you think elected officials that don't know you care so much more about you then business men that don't know you? It's not very likely is it?
I'm also curious why you think some elected official would know enough about health care and insurance and the economics of the whole thing to make wise decisions. Just because they are elected doesn't make them saints most people would think the opposite actually. 
< Message edited by 78frogger -- 9/3/2008 3:41:16 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 11:00:54 AM
|
|
|
rlj
Posts: 2181
Joined: 4/14/2005
Status: offline
|
Well in the banking sector we witnessed deregulation and free market lending policies have us bailing out how many banks currently and we have a real estate market in utter disarray and the FDIC now has to borrow money to stay open. Hasn't been this messy since the 1920s back when nothing was regulated then either. Are the hospitals and medical profession more competent than the banks? Judging by what we spend on healthcare and quality vs. the rest of the civilized western world I'm not so sure.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 11:55:40 AM
|
|
|
backrowbaptist
Posts: 387
Joined: 6/7/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
quote:
If I remember the Constitution of the United States, there is nothing in there about the government providing health care, social assistance or welfare. It state very clearly that one of the functions of government is to watch out for the "general welfare" of its people. That cuts a pretty broad swath of what government can get involved in if it's deemed to be in the public good.
It says PROMOTE the general welfare, not provide for it. BIG difference.
quote:
If private business can't get it's priorities in order - and that means something other than profit being the ONLY motive - then the government does have the right (and I would argue the responsibility) to step in and make changes by force of law. That is what happened with FDR's New Deal, the Civil Rights laws, Head Start and Medicare to name just a few programs/laws.
Civil Rights laws where a legitimate government concern, but as for your other examples; The New Deal failed miserably, making the things worse before WWII ended the depression. Head Start is a key component of LBJ's Great Society - THE single biggest social disaster in U.S. history, and Medicare and Medicaid will eat up most of the Federal budget in 20 years. No private enterprise has done anywhere near the damage to individuals, families and society as have the programs you named.
quote:
Wow, when CHRISTIANS can't see that profit as the only motive is a not a good thing....we really are headed in the wrong direction in this country.
Wow, when christians embrace class envy and socialistic ideals, ignoring their disastrous consequences to individuals and society, we're REALLY headed in the wrong direction in this country.
_____________________________
Any of this gettin' through to you, son?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 12:19:21 PM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 3143
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
Wow, when christians embrace class envy and socialistic ideals, ignoring their disastrous consequences to individuals and society, we're REALLY headed in the wrong direction in this country. Amen, Brother brb! You may advance to the front row!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 3:11:19 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
This thread is about socialized medicine, where government takes money from you in the form of compulsory taxation (it's NOT a loan that we can gain merit for by not expecting repayment), and gives it to others in the form of bureacratic health care. It divorces you from personal, proactive and voluntary ministry. And the recipient receives no blessing from it, only increased dependency on government and no accountability for change.
But the person will remain healthy and not drag TB and other communicable diseases which are making a resurgence into our schools and workplaces.
The only other alternative is to make medical insurance more affordable or investigate why medical care has had inflation which is 2-3 times greater than in almost any other sector outside of the energy sector.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 5:41:04 PM
|
|
|
78frogger
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: rlj
Well in the banking sector we witnessed deregulation and free market lending policies have us bailing out how many banks currently and we have a real estate market in utter disarray and the FDIC now has to borrow money to stay open. Hasn't been this messy since the 1920s back when nothing was regulated then either. Are the hospitals and medical profession more competent than the banks? Judging by what we spend on healthcare and quality vs. the rest of the civilized western world I'm not so sure.
Well, when the government sets up artificial props that businesses build around if you tear them down their is going to be a crashing sound for awhile. What's good long term isn't always pretty short term.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 5:44:28 PM
|
|
|
78frogger
Posts: 58
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: backrowbaptist
This thread is about socialized medicine, where government takes money from you in the form of compulsory taxation (it's NOT a loan that we can gain merit for by not expecting repayment), and gives it to others in the form of bureacratic health care. It divorces you from personal, proactive and voluntary ministry. And the recipient receives no blessing from it, only increased dependency on government and no accountability for change.
But the person will remain healthy and not drag TB and other communicable diseases which are making a resurgence into our schools and workplaces.
The only other alternative is to make medical insurance more affordable or investigate why medical care has had inflation which is 2-3 times greater than in almost any other sector outside of the energy sector.
You do realize that vaccinations, TB tests and the like are dealt with at health centers don't you. My insurance doesn't pay for them as I just go to the health center. I think community health centers are a fantastic idea. I also think they shouldn't be handled at the Federal Level. Different communities have different challenges and they need to be dealt with locally.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 10:30:16 PM
|
|
|
Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Wow, when christians embrace class envy and socialistic ideals, ignoring their disastrous consequences to individuals and society, we're REALLY headed in the wrong direction in this country. Amen, Brother brb! You may advance to the front row!
ditto
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/3/2008 11:17:38 PM
|
|
|
relady
Posts: 1286
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Greater St. Louis Metro
Status: offline
|
quote:
The New Deal failed miserably, making the things worse before WWII ended the depression. Head Start is a key component of LBJ's Great Society - THE single biggest social disaster in U.S. history, and Medicare and Medicaid will eat up most of the Federal budget in 20 years. Of course, i disagree with you on this. The New Deal did not fail, parts of it are still in effect and keeping the elderly out of poverty; Head Start a failure? Let's not even go there. And Medicaid & Medicare can be tweaked. I don't know how old you are, but I am old enough to be staring retirement in the face and know that if Medicare isn't there, nothing will be. N O T H I N G. I refuse to agree that that is acceptable in this country in any form.
You all can sit here and call me all sorts of ugly names (envious, class-envy, etc) and it doesn't make you right. We need to take care of each other and that is not going to change as we go forward into the 21st century.
I personally don't want to live in a country where even 10% of the people can't get or afford health care or insurance coverage. Something needs to be done, and if private companies won't get the $$$$ signs out of their eyes, the government will do it for them. Is that ideal? Absolutely not. But they will get what they deserve, and so will we.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/4/2008 7:51:56 AM
|
|
|
Sophie11
Posts: 777
Joined: 1/24/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: relady
I personally don't want to live in a country where even 10% of the people can't get or afford health care or insurance coverage. Something needs to be done, and if private companies won't get the $$$$ signs out of their eyes, the government will do it for them. Is that ideal? Absolutely not. But they will get what they deserve, and so will we.
You cannot expect that the insurance and drug companies are going to suddenly care no more about their pocket book. Money is what keeps them in business. Without them, 100% of the population would be without health insurance coverage, which in my estimation is worse than 10%. Money has to be a factor in any business if the business desires to stay afloat for more than a few months. It's just the way it is, it's basic economics.
Also, do you seriously think the government is not going to be paying any attention to the money side of it either? And do you really want the government to step in and tell a company what they are allowed to have "on their minds", money or compassion? Where should the thought police visit when they are done with the insurance companies?
The government is notorious for working as ineffeciently as seems humanly possible. I just find it impossible to believe that they would get medical care running smoothly, it goes against all logic and historical evidence.
The basic fact remains that if you want medical care to be cheapened, you are going to receive a lower quality of care. The government cannot stop this, unless we want them to form a slave class of doctors who they have working for free under their watchful eye.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/4/2008 3:39:39 PM
|
|
|
PaleHawkWoman
Posts: 504
Joined: 7/14/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
I haven't heard even one candidate recommend this type of "socialized" health care. Not one. In fact, I haven't heard any politician yet set out the specifics of his/her plan. While I am not in favor of just turning everything over to the government to run, I do believe we need some kind of restructuring inAmerica so that everyone has some kind of coverage, whether through an employer plan, or a state plan, or what have you. I'm coming into this late, but as a physician who spent 12 years working for the largest HMO in the free world (US Army Medical Corps) back in the 80's, I have some relevant insight. The government has no moral, constitutional, or competent professional basis for "taking over" health care in this or any other country. The health insurance industry is in shambles because their goal is making money, NOT improving the quality of health care. Far too many of my fellow physicians have given up on the doctor-patient relationship because patients don't pay, instead their insurance pays (and rather poorly!), and that insurance is purchased by big uncaring businesses trying to save as much money as possible. If you really want health care reform, why not turn back to simple fee-for-service medicine and let the doctor and the patient determine the amount, quality, and cost of health care!
On a less emotional note, let me share some very basic economic facts. There are three aspects of health care - accessibility, affordability, and quality. It is economically impossible to maximize all three. Everyone cannot receive the highest quality care at the lowest possible cost. If you want "universal coverage" it will automatically increase cost and/or decrease quality. If you want the cheapest care, it will automatically decrease access and/or decrease quality. If you want the highest quality, it will automatically decrease access and/or increase cost. This is a very simple balance that cannot be changed economically and the average person is in la-la land to think that the government can provide the best and cheapest care to everyone!
So can the AMA organize to fight the HMO's?
What is the average yearly cost for a family of four to have routine medical/dental check-ups, vision checks, & vaccinations (all well-care)?
How much is the average visit to the office for an illness or minor injury? How much for a trip to the ER for a non-life-threatening but serious illness or injury? How much per day for a hospital stay? Is there a site where this information can be accessed so that the public can research this?
When I as a kid I knew MD's who took chickens, bushels of fruit or vegetables, cured hams, a cord of firewood, canned preserves, or a job or service performed in lieu of monetary payment from poor patients(some of which were my family). What options would MD's be willing to offer impoverished patients who need services?
You must admit there are doctors who entered the profession for money, altho most MD's do so because they genuinely want to be healers, and many MD's volunteer their services at free clinics. What incentives are there for medical staff to offer low-cost ot pro-bono services for the working poor or indigent?
Something has to be done- there are too many adults who are unable to work due to curable health issues but who cannot afford the medical treatments and physical therapy needed to get back to full health. There are too many children who need corrective medical procedures so that they can grow up to be healthy adults, able to work and function in society. Many churches do support or operate free/low-cost clinics but more Christians need to support them to expand/improve their ability to serve those in need. Otherwise we will have to look to the government for help.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/4/2008 3:44:39 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sophie11
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Wow, when christians embrace class envy and socialistic ideals, ignoring their disastrous consequences to individuals and society, we're REALLY headed in the wrong direction in this country. Amen, Brother brb! You may advance to the front row!
ditto
Read Acts about the early Christian societies they practiced a theocratic socialism in laying their possessions at the Apostles feet "giving each according to his need". (Acts 2:44-45) This is our example as how a "Christian" society is supposed to operate.
Also, which classist individual was it that said, "It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God" Matt. 19:24, Mark 10:25 Luke 18:25
Wow important enough to put in 3 of 4 Gospels!
< Message edited by mapachito13 -- 9/4/2008 3:51:37 PM >
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/5/2008 2:30:43 PM
|
|
|
SuccessinTruth
Posts: 76
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
|
Tacitus is not representing NHC accurately. If you are dying, you will get immediate attention. If it is elective surgery, such as a hip replacement, or a heart bypass, good luck. That is why people come to the US and pay for it. If they could do so in GB in a timely manner, they would.
I do not know anyone who cannot get medical care when they need it by going to a clinic or hospital that charges per income, and sometimes not at all. When the populace is taxed for these charges, it is far less than what we would pay than we would for the entire country. My cousin suffered an aneurysm that required a ten day hospital stay and brain surgery and he had no insurance. He went to a private hospital that waived many of the charges and they are making reasonable monthly payments on the rest that are not causing undue hardship.
Hospitals are not making outrageous profits on medical care. I know, I worked in accounting in one for six years. In 2006, the hospitals in the state of Colorado lost a total of 4 billion dollars, and that's in cost, not profits. Hospitals lose money on every medicare patient admitted, but they still provide the same care that they would provide to a paying patient.
The reason for the high infant mortality rate is not because of the quality of health care, but because of the way people in this country take care of themselves. Not in all cases, of course, but in most cases.
The true villains of our high costs are the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, and the courts for rewarding ridiculous amounts in fraudulent claims. You find all of these companies are prospering, making high profits. I take 2 medications that retail for $1500.00 a month. They are seizure control meds, I have no choice. Insurance companies are dropping companies that keep employees until retirement because older clients make too many claims. We are losing young doctors because they can't afford to pay for medical school, office space, and the high malpractice insurance rates. If you want to fix the problems with health care in this country, then address the real issues.
And finally, what is with this attitude that the government owes us? Why have people decided that they don't have to be responsible for themselves. That may sound harsh in this oh so humanistic society, but this handout mentality has made everything go from bad to worse. Where has it made even one thing better? People who are responsible are penalized more and more by those who believe the government owes me food, a place to live, medical care. The Bible says to take care of the widows and the orphans, not every person who chooses to have one, two, three, four children with fathers who won't take care of them. For people who won't work. By supporting them we are supporting and even encouraging depravity. We're supposed to be light and salt in the world. Not rubbing a soothing salve over their eyes to further blind them. There is a huge difference between "I need some help" and "I deserve a handout". By all means, let us lovingly and compassionately take care of those who can't take care of themselves, and let us lovingly and compassionately tell the others that we'll teach them to take care of themselves, but we're not going to do it anymore.
_____________________________
May we Glorify the Lord in all that we say and do
SuccessinTruth
www.mybenefitsplus.com/40623337
affordable dental and health care plans
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Socialized Medical Care - 9/5/2008 2:51:51 PM
|
|
|
mapachito13
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10/1/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: SuccessinTruth
Tacitus is not representing NHC accurately. If you are dying, you will get immediate attention. If it is elective surgery, such as a hip replacement, or a heart bypass, good luck. That is why people come to the US and pay for it. If they could do so in GB in a timely manner, they would.
I do not know anyone who cannot get medical care when they need it by going to a clinic or hospital that charges per income, and sometimes not at all. When the populace is taxed for these charges, it is far less than what we would pay than we would for the entire country. My cousin suffered an aneurysm that required a ten day hospital stay and brain surgery and he had no insurance. He went to a private hospital that waived many of the charges and they are making reasonable monthly payments on the rest that are not causing undue hardship.
Hospitals are not making outrageous profits on medical care. I know, I worked in accounting in one for six years. In 2006, the hospitals in the state of Colorado lost a total of 4 billion dollars, and that's in cost, not profits. Hospitals lose money on every medicare patient admitted, but they still provide the same care that they would provide to a paying patient.
The reason for the high infant mortality rate is not because of the quality of health care, but because of the way people in this country take care of themselves. Not in all cases, of course, but in most cases.
The true villains of our high costs are the pharmaceutical companies, the insurance companies, and the courts for rewarding ridiculous amounts in fraudulent claims. You find all of these companies are prospering, making high profits. I take 2 medications that retail for $1500.00 a month. They are seizure control meds, I have no choice. Insurance companies are dropping companies that keep employees until retirement because older clients make too many claims. We are losing young doctors because they can't afford to pay for medical school, office space, and the high malpractice insurance rates. If you want to fix the problems with health care in this country, then address the real issues.
And finally, what is with this attitude that the government owes us? Why have people decided that they don't have to be responsible for themselves. That may sound harsh in this oh so humanistic society, but this handout mentality has made everything go from bad to worse. Where has it made even one thing better? People who are responsible are penalized more and more by those who believe the government owes me food, a place to live, medical care. The Bible says to take care of the widows and the orphans, not every person who chooses to have one, two, three, four children with fathers who won't take care of them. For people who won't work. By supporting them we are supporting and even encouraging depravity. We're supposed to be light and salt in the world. Not rubbing a soothing salve over their eyes to further blind them. There is a huge difference between "I need some help" and "I deserve a handout". By all means, let us lovingly and compassionately take care of those who can't take care of themselves, and let us lovingly and compassionately tell the others that we'll teach them to take care of themselves, but we're not going to do it anymore.
Very well written and thought out post but it left me with one question. If hospitals are that much in the hole, how can they even think to afford new wings, expansions, new equipment, etc. Why aren't all of them closing their doors. You can't operate anything (even a Christian ministry) without money.
Banks don't lend money to businesses who constantly lose money, especially nowadays. How can you even meet payroll with those sorts of losses?
I totally agree about the pharmaceutical companies. Why can they charge $300 here and only $30 in Mexico for the same medicine made at the same US facility? This actually happened with a heart medication for a friend of mine.
_____________________________
Peace Sells....But Who's Buying!
"I would argue that the most serious threat to the United States is not someone hiding in a cave in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but our own fiscal irresponsibility."-David Walker, fmr comptroller general of the US
|
|
| | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
