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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 10:42:56 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonInMe1
1 Corinthians 8:1-3
1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that we all possess knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up. 2 The man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to know. 3 But the man who loves God is known by God.
I think that you have misapplied this one, Son. Paul wasn't saying that knowledge is bad. In fact, you will see that Paul called the Corinthian Christians "thee which hast knowledge" vs. 10.
He was answering a question that we, today, do not know exactly how it was phrased. It obviously had to do with Christians eating food sacrificed to idols. Apparently some of them thought it was an okay thing to do because they "knew" better than the pagans that these gods were not real. Paul identifies what knowledge means in this context:
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge" vs. 6-7.
When go on beyond verse 3, you see that Paul basically agrees that eating food sacrificed to idols does no intrinsic harm. But then he warns them that they may be setting a bad example to those who lack sufficient knowledge.
quote:
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
Believe me-- I have pondered this one aplenty.
My conclusion is that I don't fit into any of these categories.
I'm certainly not the first one: the seed did not completely fail to germinate in me.
I'm not the second, either, for I have never been truly persecuted.
Nor am I the third: I am not affluent or hedonistic.
But I sure as heck am not number four, which I am sure that you realize by now.
So, what am I? Number five . . . ?
1 Corinthians 1:17-31
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
But what about when it becomes foolishness to those who are being saved?
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 12:41:55 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
Do you now and/or have you ever considered yourself to have had a personal relationship with this same Jesus?
No. I had a personal interest, and a personal investment.
Maybe I have a misconstrued idea of what a personal relationship with God should be like. I always assumed it would be something tangible, like Moses who spoke to God face-to-face as a man would to a friend. The apostles also enjoyed face-time with Christ.
What are we today supposed to be getting?
Dear one,
Did you read my post #196?
Also see me posting about it on the link below, post #4
http://forums.christianity.com/m_3409913/mpage_1/tm.htm
Today, my friend, as I was praying for you, I could see in my spirit that I was taking your hand and in my other hand I was taking the hand of God and then, I placed your two hands together....
< Message edited by CherishedbyGod -- 7/2/2008 6:56:19 PM >
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 1:21:41 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 2345
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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
John 1: 1-17
The Unveiling of the Face of God
G3056
λόγος
logos
log'-os
From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
It is so intriguing to read how God prepared the world to receive Messiah, (Logos) through the western dispersion of the Jews - I believe it was Philo, the philosopher in Alexander, Egypt who played a key role here and I don't think he ever became a believer. It is absolutely fascinating to study.
Nevertheless, we know God can use anyone. I started reading Alfred Eldershein's "The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah" and began learning the above. I stopped reading it but want to pick it back up because it is rich, rich treasure...
Free, online....
http://philologos.org/__eb-lat/
< Message edited by CherishedbyGod -- 7/2/2008 7:04:18 PM >
_____________________________
~I would love for you to come and learn about Jesus of Nazareth with me in the Writer's Roundtable Folder~
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 7:48:45 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. 22 The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
Believe me-- I have pondered this one aplenty.
My conclusion is that I don't fit into any of these categories.
I'm certainly not the first one: the seed did not completely fail to germinate in me.
I'm not the second, either, for I have never been truly persecuted.
Nor am I the third: I am not affluent or hedonistic.
But I sure as heck am not number four, which I am sure that you realize by now.
So, what am I? Number five . . . ?
1 Corinthians 1:17-31
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
I think this may depend on how you want to view persecution. I don't think that it has to mean the literal, having someone persecute you. But it can mean in my opinion, this is not biblical or theological, that we can be persecuted by life. When bad stuff happens to us, we are being persecuted by the prince of this world. The ruler of this world can persecute us in many ways, to see us separated from Christ, and he seems to have a lot of success. Again, this is just my opinion, and there are people all over this globe being physically persecuted for their faith in Jesus and I do not in any means wish to play that down at all. We can find ourselves in that situation someday soon. But to me it would seem the best tactic would be to make us think we weren't being persecuted. Satan is a sly sneaky snake, and he seems to have bamboozled you.Do you get what I mean.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 8:08:40 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I'd like to back up to here and ask you; At this point in time did you and/or do you now consider yourself a 'follower' of Jesus (the one who was water immersion baptized by John the baptist)?
quote:
Right now? No, I am not Christ's follower, but I once was.
It's interesting when you consider that many of Christ's followers eventually stopped following him according to John, chapter 6.
That is true, many did stop following Him. His teachings were too hard for them, and even though they thought they knew who He was, they really did not know who He was. Maybe you are still searching to find out who He really is, and that is OK. You have the background, the knowledge, and a whole lot of so called evidence against Him, but yet you are still being pulled to Him. Do you feel it? Probably not, but I thought I would state the obvious. 
quote:
Do you now and/or have you ever considered yourself to have had a personal relationship with this same Jesus?
quote:
No. I had a personal interest, and a personal investment.
Maybe I have a misconstrued idea of what a personal relationship with God should be like. I always assumed it would be something tangible, like Moses who spoke to God face-to-face as a man would to a friend. The apostles also enjoyed face-time with Christ.
What are we today supposed to be getting?
It would be great to sit and talk with God the Father face to face wouldn't it. Moses was a very lucky man. The apostles got to walk, talk, eat, and live with Jesus. They got to behold Him. Lucky men I would say. So what do we get. We get the best possible gift ever offered to any man. We get to have Jesus with us 24-7, 365 days a year, til the day we go home. I feel for you that you did not experience this. Something along the way got messed up, I don't know what it is, but it is not too late. You may think the knowledge you have collected over the years, and your intellect may have outgrown God, but how can that possibly be?
Ask yourself what has really been proven, and I mean proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to refute the bible, and not just some guys attempt to discredit it with some so called possibilities. Ask yourself how all of the prophecies surrounding Jesus' first coming foretold in the OT came true, all of them, ask yourself how that is possible. See where that takes you without letting pride and intellect get in the way. Clear your mind from all of the stuff you think you have learned over the years, and seek Him with an open heart and open mind, again, I know this will be the second time for you, or maybe the 3rd or 4th, but do that and see if He answers you.
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/2/2008 9:18:57 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 690
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
I'd like to back up to here and ask you; At this point in time did you and/or do you now consider yourself a 'follower' of Jesus (the one who was water immersion baptized by John the baptist)?
Right now? No, I am not Christ's follower, but I once was.
Good decent answer. Do you think at one point in time (after he had been a follower), that Peter could have given this same answer? Hint: have a look see at Luke 22:31-34, and 54-62.
Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
22:32
But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
22:33
And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
22:34
And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.
AND
22:54
Then took they him, and led him, and brought him into the high priest's house. And Peter followed afar off.
22:55
And when they had kindled a fire in the midst of the hall, and were set down together, Peter sat down among them.
22:56
But a certain maid beheld him as he sat by the fire, and earnestly looked upon him, and said, This man was also with him.
22:57
And he denied him, saying, Woman, I know him not.
22:58
And after a little while another saw him, and said, Thou art also of them. And Peter said, Man, I am not.
22:59
And about the space of one hour after another confidently affirmed, saying, Of a truth this fellow also was with him: for he is a Galilaean.
22:60
And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
22:61
And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
22:62
And Peter went out, and wept bitterly.
In verse 33 Peter tells Jesus, “I am ready to go with thee, both into prison and to death.”
Then comes ‘his’ ‘wilderness experience’ --- the test, and then what happened? Peter denied him; just as Jesus said he would. When the Holy Spirit reminded him of Jesus’ words ‘to him’ he went out and wept bitterly. With that repenting, he was converted and he spent the rest of his life strengthening his brethren --- no matter what Satan sent his way to prevent him from doing it.
Have you ever considered that you may be in ‘the wildernesses', going through a time of testing?
More tomorrow, if you don't mind, it’s been a very long day; and I got a bit side tracked, emotionally, on another thread earlier and I’m a bit zapped physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually right now.
Pat
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 12:06:17 AM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
But it seems to me that this knowledge is all in your intellect not in your heart.
Knowledge does reside in the intellect, does it not?
The knowledge of Jesus must be in the heart if you want to have Faith. You can be an expert in Bible but if you don't have it in your heart, Faith will not come.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 10:42:26 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
But it can mean in my opinion, this is not biblical or theological, that we can be persecuted by life. When bad stuff happens to us, we are being persecuted by the prince of this world.
Well, sure-- bad stuff happens to everyone. But some get far more than their fair share. I am not one of those unfortunates.
Btw, I don't agree that all calamity comes from the devil. In fact, scripture says otherwise, but that's another topic . . .
quote:
Satan is a sly sneaky snake, and he seems to have bamboozled you. Do you get what I mean.
I get what you mean, but if I really believed that, then I wouldn't be where I am at.
Btw, the persecuted seed-receiver fell away "quickly," according to the parable. I did not fall away quickly. It happened over a period of many years and much contemplation.
quote:
You have the background, the knowledge, and a whole lot of so called evidence against Him, but yet you are still being pulled to Him.
Yes. I once believed wholeheartedly. That belief will probably always stay with me, but it becomes less relevant as I learn to put emotions in their proper place in back of rationality and logic.
quote:
You may think the knowledge you have collected over the years, and your intellect may have outgrown God, but how can that possibly be?
Knowledge, intellect, and maturity also got me past Santa Clause. I really believed in him, too, you know.
But maybe it's not too late. Maybe if I just open my heart and start to call out to him, Santa will make himself real to me once again . . .
Do you see how unrealistic that sounds?
quote:
Clear your mind from all of the stuff you think you have learned over the years, and seek Him with an open heart and open mind, again
In order to see God I must first divest myself of my mental content? Must I be cranially circumcised before I can see God?
What, then, did Christ mean when he said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind?"
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Do you think at one point in time (after he had been a follower), that Peter could have given this same answer?
Maybe, for a few days. However, his reasons were very different from mine.
quote:
Have you ever considered that you may be in ‘the wildernesses', going through a time of testing?
Sure. If that is the case, then it will be interesting to see what pulls me out of it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lufia
You can be an expert in Bible but if you don't have it in your heart, Faith will not come.
Perhaps I have not been clear: I started out with faith. I believed in my heart.
It was years of bible study that led me out of faith and convinced me of the falsity of it. If I just had not have studied it, I might still be a good Christian today.
I am being sardonic, btw. It wasn't just the bible, it was also many Christian doctrines that just don't add up: we are free from the law/we are not free from the law, freewill/predestination, miracles/no miracles today, healings/no healings today, prophecies that apparently are not from God, etc.
It seems to me that none of this should be a mystery to any Christian if we are truly privy to one Holy Spirit leading us into all truth.
< Message edited by 1dblthnk02 -- 7/3/2008 10:51:58 AM >
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 10:48:06 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
Dear one,
Did you read my post #196?
Yes, I did. It is a wonderful personal testimony on your part.
quote:
Also see me posting about it on the link below, post #4
Another wonderful personal testimony on your part.
quote:
Today, my friend, as I was praying for you, I could see in my spirit that I was taking your hand and in my other hand I was taking the hand of God and then, I placed your two hands together....
Sometimes you are too deep for me, V.
But that's alright; it keeps me on my toes.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 10:55:50 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
You may think the knowledge you have collected over the years, and your intellect may have outgrown God, but how can that possibly be?
quote:
Knowledge, intellect, and maturity also got me past Santa Clause. I really believed in him, too, you know.
But maybe it's not too late. Maybe if I just open my heart and start to call out to him, Santa will make himself real to me once again . . .
Do you see how unrealistic that sounds? I do not appreciate the mocking tone in this post, and yes it is unrealistic to expect santa clause to make himself real to you again, because he is not real nor was he ever. No santa, no flying reindeer, no magical trips down the chimney, ever. But Jesus, is, was, and always will be. So please do not compare the two.
quote:
Clear your mind from all of the stuff you think you have learned over the years, and seek Him with an open heart and open mind, again
quote:
In order to see God I must first divest myself of my mental content? Must I be cranially circumcised before I can see God?
What, then, did Christ mean when he said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind?" What I said was to clear all of the obstacles from your mind, the so called facts you have collected, the so called evidence you think you have and seek Him with an open mind.
That verse for you, could mean, do not let the wisdom of men cloud your mind, and come between you and God.
1 Cor:18-21
18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written:
"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."[a]
20Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Cor 3:18-20
18Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness"[a]; 20and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile."
< Message edited by SavedByGraceMD -- 7/3/2008 11:10:23 AM >
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 11:10:00 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
I do not appreciate the mocking tone in this post,
Look, I am not trying to mock you or anyone else on this thread. I was making a point about faith and opening one's heart.
quote:
So please do not compare the two.
I have to. Faith is faith, no matter what your faith is in. If one opens their heart and really, really believes with a child-like faith, one can fall for virtually anything.
quote:
What I said was to clear all of the obstacles from your mind, the so called facts you have collected, the so called evidence you think you have and seek Him with an open mind.
That's what got me where I am at. The difference is that I cleared my mind of everything that I believed, i.e. took for granted to be true about Jesus/God/the Bible, and I sought the facts. Many people think that they know what the bible says, but when pressed they reveal their shortcomings.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 11:14:58 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
That verse for you, could mean, do not let the wisdom of men cloud your mind, and come between you and God.
Not "men"-- man. I am that man. I am responsible for what I see and have learned. If I begin to disregard my own senses, what is the point of anything? Even faith becomes irrelevant in that case.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 11:27:47 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
That verse for you, could mean, do not let the wisdom of men cloud your mind, and come between you and God.
Not "men"-- man. I am that man. I am responsible for what I see and have learned. If I begin to disregard my own senses, what is the point of anything? Even faith becomes irrelevant in that case.
So not one single outside influence has resulted in your falling away. You did all of your own research, not using anyone else's as a source, and you don't take to any of the prevalent theories out there, ie evolution, big bang, etc. etc. All of your knowledge comes from your own viewpoints, research, understanding, and observations? That is hard to believe. Are you a biologist, scientist, archaeologist, physicist, and all the other ists also? If not, then you are going on the knowledge, theories, accusations, assumptions and straight up guesses of men. Which of course lead you to your own conclusions, but it is still based on what others have to say, is it not?
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 11:36:56 AM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
If not, then you are going on the knowledge, theories, accusations, assumptions and straight up guesses of men. Which of course lead you to your own conclusions, but it is still based on what others have to say, is it not?
I also have my own experiences, bible study, and personal reflection on everything that I have read.
Ultimately my conclusions are mine, not anybody else's.
If I go strictly on someone else's conclusions, then I am just a disciple being led, correct?
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 11:45:39 AM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 905
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
If not, then you are going on the knowledge, theories, accusations, assumptions and straight up guesses of men. Which of course lead you to your own conclusions, but it is still based on what others have to say, is it not?
I also have my own experiences, bible study, and personal reflection on everything that I have read.
Ultimately my conclusions are mine, not anybody else's.
If I go strictly on someone else's conclusions, then I am just a disciple being led, correct?
Notice how I said the conclusions were your own, but somewhere along the line an outside influence came into play. So to say that everything you believe in now is the result of just strictly your own knowledge, is not being realistic. Did you have your own experiences, I don't doubt that. Have you done your own bible studies. I don't doubt that either. Have you personally reflected, I am sure you have. The decision you made is not an easy one to make, even though some may see it as a no brainer(pun intended, going back to your cranial circumcision joke). In some way it was influenced by what you read that other people said, had experienced or tested out in a lab. Can you realize that. You do know that pride is one of the 7 deadly sins .
_____________________________
Isaiah 41:10
"Fear not for I am with you,
Do not be dismayed for I am your God,
I will strengthen you and help you,
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand"
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 3:21:53 PM
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Lufia
Posts: 187
Joined: 5/25/2008
From: Canada, quebec province
Status: offline
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Ok you don't believe in the Bible. But aren't there any other facts that let you think about God? Like the BigBang with its perfect precision at point zero, the natural laws ( where are those coming from?), all the coincidences about earth and life on it ( the moon, it's size, it's place. distance of moon, sun and earth is perfect for life, the angle of earth, the chemistry of water being the only element solid, liquid and vapor, the genetic code: a code is always writen, no? ETC ) And then humans: why do we all have a conscience? Look at a chair , you know it was made by humans. Life is a lot more complex than any objects we create and you think it was made by chance? The eye, physicians don't understand it: one said 'explain me the eye and i will not ask you anything else!'
And Christ, do you really think that if He had not resurrected, people would have died for their belief in him after his crucifixion and 'death'? They all left him BEFORE he died so imagine AFTER. Plus in those times they were persecuted, tortured and killed. Yet those persecutors did not succeed in killing christianity.
Those kind of reflections brought me to Faith. I pray hard that they will lead you back to God.
_____________________________
Give your life to Jesus and enjoy the ride!
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/3/2008 8:10:51 PM
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IBorn2Worship
Posts: 21
Joined: 7/3/2008
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
This is an interesting thread...
Btw, I don't agree that all calamity comes from the devil. In fact, scripture says otherwise, but that's another topic . . .1dblthnk02
If you are talking about this verse:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
...It means...
Hebrew, "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc, to be the sure fruits of sin.
Look in Strongs Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries....
Yes. I once believed wholeheartedly. That belief will probably always stay with me, but it becomes less relevant as I learn to put emotions in their proper place in back of rationality and logic. 1dblthnk02
Hugh mistake. The Jewish people are emotional and they are not afraid to show their emotions. Jesus of Nazareth was a Jew. He often showed His emotions - He wept, sighed, groaned, grieved, was angry, rejoiced, loved...The Bible says that Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever. So you cannot relate to Him now, because You have shut Him out behind a wall of hardness around your heart. Why don't you begin to let Him in again? Has He been that cruel to you that you want nothing to do with Him anymore?
What, then, did Christ mean when he said, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind?"1dblthnk02
When we love God with all our mind, we feed on the Character of God. We let the Holy Spirit reveal Christ to us because His delight is to reveal the things of Christ to us. We are not to denigrate Him by feeding on things that put doubts on His perfect character. His character is perfect, sinless, holy, righteous and lovely. You are trashing His Character in your mind.
I am being sardonic, btw. It wasn't just the bible, it was also many Christian doctrines that just don't add up: we are free from the law/we are not free from the law, freewill/predestination, miracles/no miracles today, healings/no healings today, prophecies that apparently are not from God, etc.
It seems to me that none of this should be a mystery to any Christian if we are truly privy to one Holy Spirit leading us into all truth. 1dblthnk02
Another hugh mistake. You did not have your eyes on Christ. You got your eyes on all the peripheral issues which is a classic ploy of Satan. The moment we get our eyes off of Christ and all the other issues, you better believe Satan loves it.
But I wonder...did you ever really have your eyes on Christ in the first place, or was it on all the other issues instead of Him
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/4/2008 12:00:29 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
In some way it was influenced by what you read that other people said, had experienced or tested out in a lab. Can you realize that.
Of course I can. And you are right; I never tried to suggest otherwise. What I wanted to convey was that, unlike many Christians, I do not found my worldview upon the unchallenged, untried authority of my favorite speaker, a particular doctrine, or a book that I bought at the Christian book store.
Based upon various sources, especially the bible, and my own experiences and reflections, I have reached my own conclusions.
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You do know that pride is one of the 7 deadly sins
I don't see the relevance.
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ORIGINAL: Lufia
Ok you don't believe in the Bible. But aren't there any other facts that let you think about God?
Yes-- I never claimed to be an atheist.
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The eye, physicians don't understand it: one said 'explain me the eye and i will not ask you anything else!'
Who said this?
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And Christ, do you really think that if He had not resurrected, people would have died for their belief in him after his crucifixion and 'death'?
Yes.
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They all left him BEFORE he died so imagine AFTER.
They didn't "leave" him. Like he said, "Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards."
Jn.13:36
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ORIGINAL: IBorn2Worship
If you are talking about this verse:
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I am.
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...It means...
Hebrew, "ra" translated "sorrow," "wretchedness," "adversity," "afflictions," "calamities," but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc, to be the sure fruits of sin.
I know. That is why I used the word calamity, not sin.
Read my quote again:
"Btw, I don't agree that all calamity comes from the devil."
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So you cannot relate to Him now, because You have shut Him out behind a wall of hardness around your heart.
No, it is because it is illogical for me to continue believing now that I know what I know.
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But I wonder...did you ever really have your eyes on Christ in the first place, or was it on all the other issues instead of Him
I had my eyes on who I thought that Christ was in the first place, then I matured in my understanding.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/4/2008 1:56:17 PM
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IBorn2Worship
Posts: 21
Joined: 7/3/2008
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1dblthnk02
I want to apologize for coming across rather harshly to you.
It brings me great sorrow to see you not love the God we all love, that is all.
_____________________________
Empty me of the selfishness inside
Every vain ambition and the poison of my pride
And any foolish thing my heart holds to
Lord empty me of me so I can be filled with you * Chris Sligh
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/4/2008 3:48:25 PM
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1dblthnk02
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IBorn2Worship
1dblthnk02
I want to apologize for coming across rather harshly to you.
That's alright; I wasn't offended.
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It brings me great sorrow to see you not love the God we all love, that is all.
I do not mean to bring anyone sorrow. However, I will be honest when I answer others' questions.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/4/2008 4:59:08 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 690
Joined: 4/12/2005
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So sorry for the delay.
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
It's interesting when you consider that many of Christ's followers eventually stopped following him according to John, chapter 6.
John 6:61-66, “When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? ………..”
It is interesting how these “many of Christ’s followers” followed the same old pattern as the congregation/children of Israel, who murmured against Moses and Aaron in the wilderness (Numbers 13:17-14:42). It is also interesting that God said He would forgive the people (after Moses pleaded with God to pardon them). They did not lose their salvation, but they did lose the opportunity to receive the fulfillment of the Promise land. Their bones bleached in the wilderness.
Jesus also prayed for his followers, even us today and those of tomorrow; in John Chapters 16 & 17. Those that are his will not lose their salvation, although if they chose to murmur and complain against him; like the Israelites did towards Moses, instead of trusting God and His Word; Well …, history has a way of repeating itself. So nothing new here.
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ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Do you now and/or have you ever considered yourself to have had a personal relationship with this same Jesus?
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No. I had a personal interest, and a personal investment.
Please explain this.
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
Maybe I have a misconstrued idea of what a personal relationship with God should be like. I always assumed it would be something tangible, like Moses who spoke to God face-to-face as a man would to a friend. The apostles also enjoyed face-time with Christ.
Maybe, maybe not. Where can I find Moses speaking “to God face to face”?
John 1:18 says, “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him”
In John 14:9 Jesus said, “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
See Exodus 34:5-7 (Moses & God), and, John 1:14 (apostles & Jesus). God’s DNA: Compassion, Grace, Slow to Anger, Mercy, Truth, Faithful, Forgiving: Iniquity, transgression, sin, for thousands. God’s glory is the manifestation of His communicable attributes that are hidden from the world (John 17:25). A personal relationship can only happen when these are not hidden any longer and communication is opened. The moment we are born again, we do have intimacy and communication, but it is sporadic, and often interrupted. It’s new and immature (1 Peter 2:2) needing to be cultivated into an abiding relationship. There seems to be quite a few uncultivated Christians running around in the western Church (America, Australia, New Zealand, Great Britian, etc.) right now.
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
What are we today supposed to be getting?
Mark 12:28-34; Deuteronomy 6:4-5.
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RE: CherishedbyGod wanted this - 7/4/2008 5:14:22 PM
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Pat-rebel_lady
Posts: 690
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
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ORIGINAL: Pat-rebel_lady
Have you ever considered that you may be in ‘the wildernesses', going through a time of testing?
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Sure. If that is the case, then it will be interesting to see what pulls me out of it.
Try considering, Matthew 6:33; Luke 12:31 &32; and try changing you mind and attitude and going back to find ‘your first love’(Revelation 2:2-4) --- if you want pulled out of it (which I think you do).
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ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
If not, then you are going on the knowledge, theories, accusations, assumptions and straight up guesses of men. Which of course lead you to your own conclusions, but it is still based on what others have to say, is it not?
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
I also have my own experiences, bible study, and personal reflection on everything that I have read.
Ultimately my conclusions are mine, not anybody else's.
If I go strictly on someone else's conclusions, then I am just a disciple being led, correct?
No, try reading Luke 7:8-9; notice the word ‘also’ ---Jesus was under authority; God had the rule over him.
See Hebrews 13:17. Re-read Luke 2:41-52, And, Hebrews 5:8 [Jesus].
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ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
What I said was to clear all of the obstacles from your mind, the so called facts you have collected, the so called evidence you think you have and seek Him with an open mind.
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ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02
That's what got me where I am at. The difference is that I cleared my mind of everything that I believed, i.e. took for granted to be true about Jesus/God/the Bible, and I | | |
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