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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:07:09 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
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quote:
ORIGINAL: WesP
quote:
I think every personhood thread goes in the endless circle, but in the end doesn't get anywhere. Simply because it's one's opinion that life begins at conception doesn't make it true by God. God never said it.
While that may seem true, consider this: a soul cannot be defined by science. What is a soul? If you cannot specifically define the soul in terms of a physicality, then how can you determine a time at which it begins? God knew you before you were born. When did you actually begin? When a physical function began? Trying to define a point at which death is ok seems impossible. Hmmmmm?
My post may not be edifying, but......AMEN!
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:20:17 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2681
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
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To the original poster, I will simply say that I Encourage you to watch this video.
_____________________________
Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:32:17 PM
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peanut05
Posts: 38
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
To the original poster, I will simply say that I Encourage you to watch this video.
i was about to post that.
i watched that movie awhile ago and it made me realize how beautiful life is - and how wrong abortion is, no one should have it taken away from them. [i now have a shirt from there]
also i believe now that the person who came up with abortion is now pro-life and regretting for coming up with abortion. [i'm not totally sure though]
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:34:12 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I think not enough is being done for situations. I hate to say this but I went to two churches when I was pregnant with Thing 1. I went to my aunt's church for Youth Church and to my parents church for regular church. When I found out I was pregnant with Thing 1 my aunt's youth church shunned me and refused to have anything to do with me, didn't return my phone calls, didn't let me know they were praying for me...anything...even after hearing I had been hospitalised mutliple times.
My parents church spent more time whispering and speculating about me instead of being there for me. I was truly isolated. One woman from my parents church would come over and talk with me. She never mentioned the pregnancy, she never asked what happened. She just came over, did crafts with me, small devotions, and kept my mum company when I was too sick to move.
Two churches. And only ONE person did something. So yes...I have to say that we as a church aren't doing enough for pregnant women who may be tempted with abortion.
My grandfather's church dealt with single mothers, drunks and others... The probem is the with churches you mentioned, not the church...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:38:53 PM
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tafkam
Posts: 2069
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How anyone could watch that and still defend abortion is beyond me.
That's it. I'm no longer saying "pro-choice". Pro-death is the only appropriate term.....because that's what defenders of abortion are.
Are you offended? Good......
_____________________________
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.' - Ronald Reagan
Tafkam
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:47:08 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Purposeful_Life
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Do I really need to bother posting on a Christian forum biblical support that abortion is murder and that God more than frowns on the cold blooded murder of unborn children?
I'd be glad if one didn't have to "debate" with other Christians the issue of abortion...
John
I am sure you would [be glad that is] and feel free to not join in - but debate will always be there whilst there are differing views. The fact that you can't see/agree with the alternative view is, of course, your right but that doesn't [by definition] mean the other views aren't there.
Very true, without a doubt there is another side to the debate in regards to the murder of unborn children and believe with all my heart that those who support it, desire to have them, and perform them have as much moral ground to stand as a pedophile does debating his or her point of view regarding their treatment of children. Further you can rest assured most of these people would never deal with someone who could actually defend themselves...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:56:17 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
Well, my friend, when I read them, they are crystal clear. I don't see any gray area. However, for those that wish to keep abortion legal, I'm sure they would have a different view.
SovreignhIsHe painted an excellent picture in an earlier post.....can anybody really picture Jesus standing over a bucket containing the remains of an aborted baby, and telling the doctor and "mother" "Well done"?
If abortion up to a certain point isn't murder, then there's no issue unless it's too late. I can picture that actually; or picture Him being neutral.
The last thing God and or Jesus will ever be is neutral... He doesn't like lukewarm.... As well He will not be mocked, and there is no scrpiture that grants a person the right to take life apart from there being just cause and the only one I can find in the bible is defending one's life or of those you are responsible for... God has granted the state right to take life if there is just cause, and given that I doubt anyone will ever be able to charge an unborn child with a crime the state will never have just cause to take the life of the unborn and or grant that right to anyone else... It's wrong no matter how you look at it...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:59:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tafkam
How anyone could watch that and still defend abortion is beyond me.
That's it. I'm no longer saying "pro-choice". Pro-death is the only appropriate term.....because that's what defenders of abortion are.
Are you offended? Good......
Amen... And here is a verse that fits just right...
Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the Lord.
The above works perfect for those who support abortion...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:06:15 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
As for men having a say so. I feel that they do, and I find it sad that somehow or another a woman can't carry the child to term and let the father raise it completely. However he loses his rights completely when he writes the check to pay for the abortion.
A smart woman would take that money and put it towards her baby. 
Hey Tink, your post just got me thinking!  And yes, I agree with you also.
It just occurred to me that if is not a man's right to have an opinion on this, then why should they even be "required" to support the baby if the woman decides to keep the baby instead? Its a double standard I think.
quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
Aside from condemnation, what are we as a church going to do to support women who are considering abortion? Are we going to constantly tell them that murder is a sin and if they do it they are murderers, or are we going to show them a better way...consider adoption, consider raising the child without government assistance and how to get established either way?
TInkerbell, I like where you're going, and I agree. The Church needs to reach out in love on this issue. Abortion is certainly wrong, but that doesn't mean God does not love those who have either had abortions, or are considering having them.
In terms of moving the world away from choosing abortion, I think it would be much more effective to do so by showcasing to them the awesome love of Christ, and the better, more complete way He would have us living - that is, in regards to this particular issue, in a way that places worth and value on ALL life; that of the unborn child, plus the mother as well.
Instead of effectively screaming "God hates you when you kill your baby!", perhaps we should be saying, and showing by our actions, that God loves them, and their babies.
The first church that I attended got very involved in the Pro-Life movement. Eventually crisis pregnancy center was opened. Now they have several locations in the Boston area helping people who are in crisis pregnancies as well.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:10:03 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2681
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I think not enough is being done for situations. I hate to say this but I went to two churches when I was pregnant with Thing 1. I went to my aunt's church for Youth Church and to my parents church for regular church. When I found out I was pregnant with Thing 1 my aunt's youth church shunned me and refused to have anything to do with me, didn't return my phone calls, didn't let me know they were praying for me...anything...even after hearing I had been hospitalised mutliple times.
My parents church spent more time whispering and speculating about me instead of being there for me. I was truly isolated. One woman from my parents church would come over and talk with me. She never mentioned the pregnancy, she never asked what happened. She just came over, did crafts with me, small devotions, and kept my mum company when I was too sick to move.
Two churches. And only ONE person did something. So yes...I have to say that we as a church aren't doing enough for pregnant women who may be tempted with abortion.
Prayer is wonderful and I pray earnestly that we never stop praying. But one small simple guesture can actually show someone the love of Christ.
Just one.
Tink, that does stink. But even still, aren't you so glad you didn't abort and that Thing #1 is with you today?
Your experience reminded me of a training video for CPC counselors I saw, and it was talking about the people/places that cause women to feel pressured to abort, and it listed the obvious such as boyfriend, family, school, but then it also talked about how the church can also cause the temptation because the church can be so ready to shun/judge such a girl rather than remembering their own sinfulness. My christian high school (the one I went to for 9th and the first half of 10th) was bad about that. Yeah, they addressed the "big" sins like premarital sex, drunkenness and drugs, but they never addressed such sins as covetousness, self righteous -ness, unkindness, dishonor to parents, etc. etc. And I really don't think the former sins are worse than the latter, I am just saying they taught that way, which was bad.
< Message edited by OneOfHisJewels -- 6/17/2008 10:32:45 PM >
_____________________________
Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:10:12 PM
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Kath
Posts: 17132
Joined: 2/28/2005
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quote:
It just occurred to me that if is not a man's right to have an opinion on this, then why should they even be "required" to support the baby if the woman decides to keep the baby instead? Its a double standard I think.
and it might make an interesting topic for another thread. Lets be careful not to take this one astray. Thanks!
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:13:26 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: Just Outside of Boston
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Will do!
_____________________________
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:28:20 PM
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jsussves
Posts: 8
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Hi everyone. I am new on here and this is the first forum I have come to and I will have to say that some of what was said sickens me. I too have had an abortion. I struggle with it everyday of my life. Not a day goes by that I don't think about what it would have been like to hold that little baby in my arms. My boyfriend at the time push the issue with me getting an abortion. I was very much pro life. He even knew this. Things were happening in my life that I didn't understand. I made wrong decision and I have regretted them. I murdered my baby. His or her blood was on my hands. And I have to live with that the rest of my life. Until I go home to meet my Savior. And when that happens I will have a son or daughter waiting on me. I pray for all women who are struggling with having an abortion. It is very hard and guys don't really understand what we go through. I pray that God will give those women who are thinking about it strength to say no.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:32:08 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
To the original poster, I will simply say that I Encourage you to watch this video.
How can anyone argue that abortion is OK at ANY point after viewing this? This video is tough to watch, but people can't stick their heads in the sand about this. I wonder if even 1 % of the women obtaining abortions have seen the truth about this procedure?
Thank you for posting the link- I will keep this for future reference.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:33:14 PM
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Dona Nobis Pacem
Posts: 148
Joined: 5/5/2005
From: FL
Status: offline
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quote:
It's their opinion that personhood is attained at conception. Nowhere has God said this.
Simply because it's one's opinion that life begins at conception doesn't make it true by God. God never said it.
God did say to Jeremiah
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I dedicated you, a prophet to the nations I appointed you"."
Jer 1:5
When does an acorn become an oak tree?
Peace,
DNP
_____________________________
Pray the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
For the sake of His sorrowful Passion,
Have mercy on us, and on the whole world.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:41:22 PM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jsussves
Hi everyone. I am new on here and this is the first forum I have come to and I will have to say that some of what was said sickens me. I too have had an abortion. I struggle with it everyday of my life. Not a day goes by that I don't think about what it would have been like to hold that little baby in my arms. My boyfriend at the time push the issue with me getting an abortion. I was very much pro life. He even knew this. Things were happening in my life that I didn't understand. I made wrong decision and I have regretted them. I murdered my baby. His or her blood was on my hands. And I have to live with that the rest of my life. Until I go home to meet my Savior. And when that happens I will have a son or daughter waiting on me. I pray for all women who are struggling with having an abortion. It is very hard and guys don't really understand what we go through. I pray that God will give those women who are thinking about it strength to say no.
jsussves, I hope counseling and lots of prayer has helped you. Is there anyway that you may be able to someday use this to help other young women in similiar situations? What a way to bless and save another's life after a tragedy.
Thank you for sharing.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:49:37 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6993
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jsussves
Hi everyone. I am new on here and this is the first forum I have come to and I will have to say that some of what was said sickens me. I too have had an abortion. I struggle with it everyday of my life. Not a day goes by that I don't think about what it would have been like to hold that little baby in my arms. My boyfriend at the time push the issue with me getting an abortion. I was very much pro life. He even knew this. Things were happening in my life that I didn't understand. I made wrong decision and I have regretted them. I murdered my baby. His or her blood was on my hands. And I have to live with that the rest of my life. Until I go home to meet my Savior. And when that happens I will have a son or daughter waiting on me. I pray for all women who are struggling with having an abortion. It is very hard and guys don't really understand what we go through. I pray that God will give those women who are thinking about it strength to say no.
Hi and welcome!! You might be interested in THIS THREAD (<- clickable link) for Women Only.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:51:13 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
Posts: 2681
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: California
Status: online
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quote:
i believe now that the person who came up with abortion is now pro-life and regretting for coming up with abortion. [i'm not totally sure though]
I had heard that, too.
_____________________________
Now thank we all our God, with hearts and hands and voices, what wondrous things He's done, in whom the world rejoices.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 10:53:06 PM
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jsussves
Posts: 8
Joined: 6/17/2008
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Hi Stonger2Day,
I married the man whom I was with at the time and just about 1 month ago, we spoke about it for the first time at a youth rally at our Church. That was the hardest thing I have ever done. I did it and will do it again, if I have an opportunity, in honor of the life I let go. I know when I enter the Gates of Heaven I will hear a child say "Mommy".
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 11:05:23 PM
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MyCatSmokey2006
Posts: 3138
Status: offline
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I've read all the posts so far and this is what I think:
1. Abortion is murder. Period.
2. Women with mental disorders who have to go off their medications because of their pregnancy should work with their medical providers so they will not relapse while pregnant.
3. If mentally ill women don't want to have to go off their meds for the baby's sake, then they should practice birth control.
4. In case of rape or incest, I think that a baby is also an innocent victim of these horrific crimes and should not have to pay for it with their life.
5. Young teenagers should practice abstinance--that's how to prevent pregnancy in the first place. If they do become pregnant, then they should be responsible for the consequences of the choice they made. They should bear the child and either keep it or give it up for adoption.
6. I agree that the church should be more compassionate toward people who need guidance when facing choice of abortion or adoption. As Christians, we need to show unconditional love and encouragement to them to make the right decision, that is, to carry the baby to term and either keep it or give it up for adoption.
7. Based on the Bible verses quoted earlier in this thread, I believe that life begins at conception.
8. I believe that men do have a right to know the status of the baby because they helped create it. After all, it takes two to tango, as someone already said.
9. I'm pro-life and don't like it when our media refer to me and other pro-lifers as "anti-abortion", while refering to the pro-choice camp as "abortion advocates".
_____________________________
Melissa
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 11:13:35 PM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6993
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stronger2day
quote:
ORIGINAL: OneOfHisJewels
To the original poster, I will simply say that I Encourage you to watch this video.
How can anyone argue that abortion is OK at ANY point after viewing this? This video is tough to watch, but people can't stick their heads in the sand about this. I wonder if even 1 % of the women obtaining abortions have seen the truth about this procedure?
Thank you for posting the link- I will keep this for future reference.
Actually, I had seen several movies like that before having an abortion.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/18/2008 12:42:57 AM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
quote:
ORIGINAL: Stronger2day
How can anyone argue that abortion is OK at ANY point after viewing this? This video is tough to watch, but people can't stick their heads in the sand about this. I wonder if even 1 % of the women obtaining abortions have seen the truth about this procedure?
Actually, I had seen several movies like that before having an abortion.
could you share more? influence, no influence?
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/18/2008 1:03:54 AM
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Roberta_
Posts: 6993
Joined: 9/28/2007
From: East Bay Area
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I still went ahead and did it.
I've actually shared a lot in the thread that I linked earlier on this page.
Movies like that have an effect on those who are already pro-life. I don't know for others, but I was pro-abortion at the times that I saw those kinds of movies and it didn't have an effect on me. Now, they bother me, but then they didn't.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/18/2008 1:07:40 AM
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Stronger2day
Posts: 106
Joined: 5/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DenimDiva
I still went ahead and did it.
I've actually shared a lot in the thread that I linked earlier on this page.
Movies like that have an effect on those who are already pro-life. I don't know for others, but I was pro-abortion at the times that I saw those kinds of movies and it didn't have an effect on me. Now, they bother me, but then they didn't.
I'll check it out. Thanks for being open.
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