Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (Full Version)

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WesleyGlenn -> Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 9:48:10 AM)

I, personally, can't listen to it anymore. There are many reasons that I have behind it, but I won't go into all of the details unless some one really wants to know. It'll probably be a long post is why. But what about all of you? Do you listen to secular music still and if you do, why?



stellaluna -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 9:55:13 AM)

I pretty much listen to whatever I want and whatever I'm in the mood for. (Although I probably listen less to music than your average bear.)

This kind of question has been hashed out a million times over in this folder, by the way. And let me just point out that "secular" is kind of a loaded word in musical circles. It's way more subjective that you might think.



freakofnature -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 10:15:47 AM)

quote:

WesleyGlenn said:
I, personally, can't listen to it anymore. There are many reasons that I have behind it, but I won't go into all of the details unless some one really wants to know. It'll probably be a long post is why. But what about all of you? Do you listen to secular music still and if you do, why?


Welcom WesleyGlenn;

I try to stay out of many non-christian based music and focus mainly on Christ Centered Entertainment... (and for the record, yes this applies to my t.v. watching as I watch alot of the TLC/History Channel and News)
I support you in your efforts to listen to exclusively Christ centered music. There are alot of Great Bands out there that you may have to dig around for. As my friend stella has pointed out, this has been hashed out and hacked over many many times. I will tell you that my decission to try and support only Christian music comes from a dark place in my life whereas the uplifting messages in Christian music lifted me up during that time, I too will not get into details as many in this forum are probably familure with the situation. I will say this tho, I do have some "secular" cd's and I just picked up another one recently from Jack Johnson. I have about 20 secular cd's or music from non-christian groups that range from Gnarls Barkley to Soul Asylum. I also have a large selection of Jazz from Miles Davis to John Patittucci to Coultrane to Thelonious Monk. It is a tight rope walk.


Hey Stella:
quote:

"I don't agree with Stellaluna..." -- miasma


This is hillarious... LOL... ROFL.



stellaluna -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 10:20:16 AM)

quote:


Hey Stella:
quote:

"I don't agree with Stellaluna..." -- miasma


This is hillarious... LOL... ROFL.

[:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: freakofnature
I will say this tho, I do have some "secular" cd's and I just picked up another one recently from Jack Johnson. I have about 20 secular cd's or music from non-christian groups that range from Gnarls Barkley to Soul Asylum. I also have a large selection of Jazz from Miles Davis to John Patittucci to Coultrane to Thelonious Monk. It is a tight rope walk.

Perfect example.



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 10:22:01 AM)

I'm with Stellaluna, I listen to whatever. When I first got saved I felt like you do, but being a fan of jazz, and big band in particular, I'd have very little music to chose from if I limited myself to just "Christian".

Let me ask you a loaded question, how do you define "Christian" music?



1love1God1way -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 12:41:52 PM)

I don't distinguish genres of music like that.

I listen to GOOD music. Period.



glennster -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 1:03:20 PM)

I listen to some secular music (mainly progressive rock--Dream Theater, etc,), mostly due to the fact that it interests me. If there were Christian artists that produced instrumentals and complex, 20-minute songs, I'd definitely listen. There may be, but I don't know of any.

Glenn



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 1:15:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1love1God1way

I don't distinguish genres of music like that.

I listen to GOOD music. Period.

Ditto. [;)]



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 2:30:56 PM)

quote:

If there were Christian artists that produced instrumentals and complex, 20-minute songs, I'd definitely listen. There may be, but I don't know of any.
Neal Morse. I think he's even better now than when he headed Spock's Beard. Check out his web site some time. I highly recommend his Testimony and Sola Scriptura cd's. As an enticement, the drummer on all his cd's is Mike Portnoy. I think you might be familiar with him.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 2:37:05 PM)

I listen to good music. I went down the path of only listening to Christian music for a while but after several artists had affairs I gave that up and now listen to what I want. If you are convicted to give up secular music then by all means do so.



redeemedsaint -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 3:01:10 PM)

I listen to what I'm in the mood for also. Such as 80's music or egad! Disco or otherwise called Dance music.



uncabeeil -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 3:32:56 PM)

quote:

Disco
You're gonna burn. brother!!! [8D]



WesleyGlenn -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 4:08:43 PM)

I define secular music as music that is not centered on Christ. I also figured this question had been hashed and re-hashed a million times and ways. I'm just new here and trying to get a feel for people. I see things in a "black and white" perspective. Either something is for God or against God. Matthew Chapter 12 v. 30 reads, "He who is not with me is against Me,..." So, I feel that if it is not for God it is against God. I'm talking about the lyrics and meaning behind songs. That's part of the reason that I can only listen to Christian music. I still hear some stuff that's on the radio now because of my brother. He'll be blasting stuff when I go to see my family. But I don't own a single secular CD, I threw about 300 away and gave about 50 to a friend because I owed him some money. I haven't had any for about 4 years now.

When you say that you listen to "good" music, what do you mean? Some people consider Tool and Slipknot "good" music, sad to say.

And StephK, you shouldn't let the fall of others be your reason for turning back to listening to whatever. When we stand before Christ, we'll be standing alone. There will be no one to blame for our decisions except ourself.



freakofnature -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 4:26:55 PM)

Hey Wes;

I am with you for the most part. The problem that gets the most traction is that:

A)Define Music, it is an artform and some would argue that it can not be good or bad (?) as it is an object and subject to the interpretation of those listening to it. Yes there are some blatantly indiscreet songs out there that Christians should not listen to but over all not all lyrical content is secular just because they are written by an artist who is not openly Christian, say like Lifehouse or The Fray. Otherwise, lyrics are basically words and poems set to music. Just as much as you and I are conversing here a majority of songs have less then a harmfull meaning behind them.

B) How would you describe instrumentals? Unless you know the motivation behind the writing of say "Straight No Chaser" by Thelonious Monk, yes you could assume that it is a song about drinking but I don't necissarily know what he was thinking when that was written. Or even Miles Davis "So What!" blatant rebellion?

You are gonna get a lot of arguing in this forum, and I have made my arguments for Christian Based entertainment or Christ Centered Music and support your choice as that is the majority of what I listen to as well. But there are just too many shaded areas out there that make it difficult to argue favorably for only listening to say for instance Praise and worship.

This is where stella was attempting to reflect that a strong definition of Secular needs to be determined.



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 4:51:32 PM)

I wasn't under conviction to listen to only Christian music. I was being legalistic and following the herd in Churchianity at the time where all secular music was evil and all Christian music was good. That doesn't mean I don't listen to Christian music, I do. I just enjoy good music period now most of which is secular. [;)]



WesleyGlenn -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 7:12:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

I wasn't under conviction to listen to only Christian music. I was being legalistic and following the herd in Churchianity at the time where all secular music was evil and all Christian music was good. That doesn't mean I don't listen to Christian music, I do. I just enjoy good music period now most of which is secular. [;)]


OK, you say you listen to "good" music. Most of which happens to be secular. Can I have examples of what you listen to and what you consider "good"? And please, don't think I'm waving a finger or anything because it's not like that[:D]



WesleyGlenn -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 8:08:39 PM)

One of the reasons I asked this question is because the eyes and ears are gates to what one lets into his/her heart. A gate can be an entrance or an exit. Matthew Chapter 12 v. 34 reads, ".....For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." What we let into our lives through those gates will be what is lived out. If one is constantly listening to Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix, The Eagles, Lynard Skynard, The Rolling Stones, Nas, Lil Wayne, Jay-Z, Biggie, Pac, Disturbed, T.I., My Chemical Romance, Rage Against the Machine, Puddle of Mudd, 50 Cent, and anyone else you can name from the "heavy rotation" of most mainstream radio stations is not putting something into your life that is going to help you go further in your walk with Christ. In fact, it can be more of a hinderance than you want to accept or believe. Alot of people I've talked to about this flat out say that they don't want to stop listening to it. It's something they don't want or feel they need to give up. Romans Chapter 12 v. 2 reads, "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God." The word conformed here comes from the word suschematizo and it refers to conforming oneslf to the outer fashion or outward appearance, accomodating oneself to a model or pattern. The same word is also used in 1 Peter Chapter 1 v. 14 where it talks about "not conforming yourselves to the former lusts." God doesn't want his people programmed by the world's values or systems. We need to get our beliefs and identity from what the word says about God's people. All music plants a seed within just as God's word plants seeds within and those things grow. Next thing you know, you'll be talking like the world, concerned with things in the world, or struggling with things of the world because you let the music plant seed that grew into actions, thoughts, and ideals. Whatever a man sows, that he will reap (Galatians Chap. 6 v. 7). And I'll end this post on this note 2Corinthians Chapter 6 v. 17+18 and Chapter 7 v. 1, "17) Therefore 'Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you.' 18) 'I will be a Father to you, And you shall be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.' 1) Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."



StephK -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/13/2008 8:29:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesleyGlenn

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

I wasn't under conviction to listen to only Christian music. I was being legalistic and following the herd in Churchianity at the time where all secular music was evil and all Christian music was good. That doesn't mean I don't listen to Christian music, I do. I just enjoy good music period now most of which is secular. [;)]


OK, you say you listen to "good" music. Most of which happens to be secular. Can I have examples of what you listen to and what you consider "good"? And please, don't think I'm waving a finger or anything because it's not like that[:D]


The Smiths, Morrissey, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Neko Case, Sufjan Stevens (He is a Christian but not a CCM artist), Ray LaMontagne, Lucinda West, Amos Lee, Elliott Smith, Marc Broussard, Ben Harper, Cat Power, Cowboy Junkies, Corinne Bailey Rae, Norah Jones, David Bowie, Dave Matthews Band, David Gray, Rufus Wainwright, Jeff Buckley, Eric Clapton, John Mayer, Keb Mo, Bettye LaVette, Nickel Creek, Alison Krauss, REM, Radiohead, The Beatles, Van the man Morrison, Susan Tedechi, Bonnie Raitt, The Weepies, Wilco, some Willie Nelson, Spoon, Arcade Fire, The White Stripes and many more in the indie music scene. I like singer-songwriters who write from the heart even if I disagree with their opinions, views etcetera I appreciate their honesty and questioning the status quo.

For the record, your convictions aren't my convictions. There are some things i don't listen to based on preference, and conviction. I understand that this is an area where the Holy Spirit is more than sufficient to do His job of leading and guiding people in what they do.



sunshine4God -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 12:38:24 AM)

Out of conviction as a teen I threw out all my secular cds,but still listen to the radio.I am just totally into pop music and cannot seem to quit listening to it. I listen to mostly christian music but have no problem listening to pop stations,or watching vh1 or fuse. I do turn off the radio ir tv if a really bad song is on though.



mayfly -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 3:21:19 AM)

I would love to listen to only Christian music, but unfortunately I just don't think there are enough good Christian artists in the genres that I enjoy. I mean honestly, where's the Christian equivalent to, say, the Beatles? I would gladly burn my UK first edition White Album if I found a Christian group that were as good as them.



Rufas2000 -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 8:29:05 AM)

quote:

I would gladly burn my UK first edition White Album if I found a Christian group that were as good as them.


Since it would be hard to imagine any group, Christian or not, that would be as good or moreover as influential as The Beatles I think you're White Album is safe from the flames.

This is in no way a slam against Christian music but rather an acknowledgement of the impact of The Beatles on rock and modern popular music.

quote:

Alot of people I've talked to about this flat out say that they don't want to stop listening to it. It's something they don't want or feel they need to give up.


That would be me.

quote:

For the record, your convictions aren't my convictions. There are some things i don't listen to based on preference, and conviction. I understand that this is an area where the Holy Spirit is more than sufficient to do His job of leading and guiding people in what they do.


I agree, nicely stated.

quote:

OK, you say you listen to "good" music. Most of which happens to be secular. Can I have examples of what you listen to and what you consider "good"? And please, don't think I'm waving a finger or anything because it's not like that


Actually it is like that. I know you aren't condemning or being mean spirited but you did try to convince the person that they are wrong about listening to secular music. And there is nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts on a message board, thats what conversation is for. But it is like that, in a pleasant way.

The problem with this topic is that most veteran Christians who have spent time with the Christian community have had this issue brought to their attention before and have made their choice. New Christians might read this and start thinking that this is another don't in Christianity. In essence there are very few Christians who have not had this discussion and are ready to have this discussion.

However this is one of the better attempts to make this point that I've seen on these forums so kudos to that.



existential -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 9:00:15 AM)

I listen to 99% non-church music. Why? Because
the good rythms, cord stuctures,melodies, improvisation, etc. is in the "secular world". I find plenty of non-church music to worship God with. If it is a matter of not being like the world then the evangelical/fundamentalist churches are way into that! I think it all started long ago when the white church was afraid that the slaves music was heathen and would not allow any such blues/jazz type of music to be heard, let alone used in a church. No, the church is still way too conservative for me to listen to it's acceptable music.



Terath -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 10:17:56 AM)

Martin Luther(and many from the Reformation) would disagree with the anti-secular stance on music. In fact it was a reformer(whose name escapes me at the moment; if I find it, I'll post it) who coined the phrase, "Why should the Devil have all the good music?" Some of our more famous hymns are merely secular songs with the words changed, some of them even being tunes sung in bars. Imagine "99 bottles of beer on the wall" being sung for Christ.[:D]



WesleyGlenn -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 10:18:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rufas2000

quote:

OK, you say you listen to "good" music. Most of which happens to be secular. Can I have examples of what you listen to and what you consider "good"? And please, don't think I'm waving a finger or anything because it's not like that


Actually it is like that. I know you aren't condemning or being mean spirited but you did try to convince the person that they are wrong about listening to secular music. And there is nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts on a message board, thats what conversation is for. But it is like that, in a pleasant way.

The problem with this topic is that most veteran Christians who have spent time with the Christian community have had this issue brought to their attention before and have made their choice. New Christians might read this and start thinking that this is another don't in Christianity. In essence there are very few Christians who have not had this discussion and are ready to have this discussion.

However this is one of the better attempts to make this point that I've seen on these forums so kudos to that.


Thank you, about the attempt and all, but it is my personal conviction. I also know other things about the music industry that not many people know or even want to talk about. I think another reason that I can listen to no kind of "secular" music is because I do Christian hip-hop. I don't think the Lord wants me influenced by anything secular. Also, I can tell an immediate change in my thought life and my spirit if I do happen to hear a song because of my brother or anyone else. The music itself can grab hold to you and some people seem to have a very heavy draw behind anythng they create. I understand why so I have to steer away from it. The way it's all put together though is for the most part "better" than the Christian attempts at the same kind of music. I've been praying to the Lord to give me an anthem for Christian hip-hop that will take the airwaves like Mercy Me's "I Can Only Imagine" and it's only a matter of time. When I finally find the beat, it will be on like Donkey Kong[;)] You all be blessed.



humbleinspirit -> RE: Secular Music.....How many of you listen to it and why? (6/14/2008 10:59:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WesleyGlenn

I define secular music as music that is not centered on Christ. I also figured this question had been hashed and re-hashed a million times and ways. I'm just new here and trying to get a feel for people. I see things in a "black and white" perspective. Either something is for God or against God. Matthew Chapter 12 v. 30 reads, "He who is not with me is against Me,..." So, I feel that if it is not for God it is against God. I'm talking about the lyrics and meaning behind songs. That's part of the reason that I can only listen to Christian music. I still hear some stuff that's on the radio now because of my brother. He'll be blasting stuff when I go to see my family. But I don't own a single secular CD, I threw about 300 away and gave about 50 to a friend because I owed him some money. I haven't had any for about 4 years now.




Now what about Christians who write love songs, or talk about social issues as well?

I listen to both, however I do not listen to nearly as much Christian music at all as a real lot of it is quite noisy and rocky! I like mellower stuff like light and mid tempo rock, folk, etc. You really cannot find much of that in CCM at all.



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