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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 12:51:12 AM
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kelman
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quote:
ORIGINAL: greatdivide46
I'm wondering how babies outside the Ark or babies being killed in Jericho, makes those babies accountable. Maybe there's another reason they died. Just a random though I had. 
The past judgments of God are a picture of the final judgment. And, from those past judgments, which were recorded for our benefit, we see that all were accountable; and, only those God chose were saved from judgment.
A very good reason to take God seriously when He speaks of the final judgment and the death of the "wicked". Those also listed among the "wicked" are all "former" believers, "used to be" believers or "once upon a time" believers since, in reality, they are simply UNbelievers.
So, people should be very very careful about the theology they subscribe to especially when it tells you "don't worry if you stop believing - you are still safe and secure in the arms of Jesus". There actually are theologies that lead straight to destruction.
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 7:32:33 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 557
Joined: 1/11/2006
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It's funny that Kelman can get away so easily with post #302. When the church of Christ people say it they are always shot with "friendly fire".
lol
_____________________________
My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 4:54:06 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Don't you agree that unbelievers can pray and fear God? Why not?
No...
I'll not repeat all the verses you provided because they don't deal with the issue at hand. Which is: can an unbeliever pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him.
Please consider the Catholics. All of them recognize God. Yes, I agree that their theological views are not biblical, but that's not the point. They DO recognize that God exists. And they pray, some of them, continually. Now, based on that, do you consider ALL Catholics saved?
Or another group, the Mormons. Yes, I'm quite aware of their theological problems. However, they DO recognize that God exists as Creator. And they pray to Him. Their view of Jesus is quite skewed, of course. But that is because they rejected that divine Truth when presented to them. They accepted the deception from Satan regarding Jesus. So, they recognize, honor and pray to God. Do you consider any of them saved?
quote:
As for prayer... Praying to a god of one's vain imagination isn't prayers to God...
When a person recognizes a Divine Being who created the universe, they ARE recognizing God. That doesn't mean they have even a little theology correct, other than that God IS Creator.
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I don't know what you are getting at? Does creation reveal the Savior? No, it does not. I believe Romans 1 is speaking about the existence of God as Creator.
I believe you are dead wrong...
No, I'm quite alive, as well as right. 
quote:
Jesus is always part of the equation... He took part in creation...How can Jesus not be seen in creation if God is? I and the Father are one...
You simply fail to see the point in Romans 1. From creation, the point of Romans 1 is that God exists. There is nothing in Romans 1 that speaks of recognizing the Godhead. It is speaking of the Creator. That's the starting point of God's divine revelation to mankind. That He exists as Creator. Those who respond to that Truth will seek Him, as Cornelius did. Those who reject that Truth, by suppression of it, like fools, will NOT seek Him.
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Do you agree or disagree that when God "makes evident to all" His existence, that man is faced with a choice: to either accept that evidence or reject that evidence?
I believe those God makes alive can make a choice... The dead don't raise themselves to honor God.. If man could raise himself he would without doubt honor himself...
Why do you insist that God must regenerate one in order to believe in His existence? There are many unbelievers who recognize the existence of God.
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I see Cornelius as one who accepted the evidence and sought God. I see fools as those wo suppress the truth of God's evidence, and don't seek God.
I see Cornelius as one given understanding according to the will and purpose of God... Cornelius' actions are a result of God working through him...
Yes, God made Himself evident to Cornelius, as He does for everyone. Cornelius responded to that divine revelation by seeking God, fulfilling Acts 17:27, or the purpose that God created mankind in the first place.
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quote:
I also see God responding to Cornelius' seeking. I also see that God "gives them over to their own lusts" concerning those who suppress the truth.
I see Cornelius responding to the call... He was a believer...
Do you really believe that a believer can be unsaved? Why? That makes absolutely no sense. Considering what Cornelius told Peter about what the angel told him, it is very clear that he was NOT SAVED when the angel appeared to him. Why do you deny that?
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One cannot believe unless they are a sheep...
If one is already a sheep, why do they even need to believe? You are getting the cart way before the horse.
We are justified through faith Rom 3:24
We are saved through faith Eph 2:8
We are forgiven through faith Acts 10:43
We are given eternal life through faith John 6:40
Why do you want to deny any of these points?
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 4:59:59 PM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
What do you do with the fact regarding those who fear God and respond to the TRUTH of God(that would include Christ)? You say they are not believers...
Why do you think I have "said" those who fear God and respond to the Truth of God were not believers? You terribly misunderstand me.
At the beginning of Acts 10, Cornelius recognized and honored God through prayer. The angel appeared to him and told him to send for Peter "and he shall speak words to you by which you will be saved". Acts 11:14
Peter arrives and preaches the gospel to Cornelius and he is saved.
Your problem: explain how a believer at some point later on gets saved.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 10:55:35 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
I'll not repeat all the verses you provided because they don't deal with the issue at hand. Which is: can an unbeliever pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him.
Yes that do...
quote:
Please consider the Catholics. All of them recognize God. Yes, I agree that their theological views are not biblical, but that's not the point. They DO recognize that God exists. And they pray, some of them, continually. Now, based on that, do you consider ALL Catholics saved?
They don't deny Christ...
quote:
Or another group, the Mormons. Yes, I'm quite aware of their theological problems. However, they DO recognize that God exists as Creator. And they pray to Him. Their view of Jesus is quite skewed, of course. But that is because they rejected that divine Truth when presented to them. They accepted the deception from Satan regarding Jesus. So, they recognize, honor and pray to God. Do you consider any of them saved?
They do not pray to God... They pray to something they created themselves...
quote:
No, I'm quite alive, as well as right.
Like you were right about unbelief not being a sin? 
quote:
You simply fail to see the point in Romans 1. From creation, the point of Romans 1 is that God exists. There is nothing in Romans 1 that speaks of recognizing the Godhead. It is speaking of the Creator. That's the starting point of God's divine revelation to mankind. That He exists as Creator. Those who respond to that Truth will seek Him, as Cornelius did. Those who reject that Truth, by suppression of it, like fools, will NOT seek Him.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
quote:
Why do you insist that God must regenerate one in order to believe in His existence? There are many unbelievers who recognize the existence of God.
The recognize the existence of something they made up in their mind...
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Yes, God made Himself evident to Cornelius, as He does for everyone. Cornelius responded to that divine revelation by seeking God, fulfilling Acts 17:27, or the purpose that God created mankind in the first place.
There is no God without Christ...
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Do you really believe that a believer can be unsaved? Why? That makes absolutely no sense.
I don't believe he was not saved...
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Considering what Cornelius told Peter about what the angel told him, it is very clear that he was NOT SAVED when the angel appeared to him. Why do you deny that?
You deny Acts 10...
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Why do you want to deny any of these points?
I deny only your skewed view...
John 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/8/2008 10:57:15 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you think I have "said" those who fear God and respond to the Truth of God were not believers? You terribly misunderstand me.
Because you said that people can do the same thing and some will not be saved...
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 2:59:05 AM
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kelman
Posts: 3886
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FolkSingerBlues
It's funny that Kelman can get away so easily with post #302. When the church of Christ people say it they are always shot with "friendly fire".
lol
Imagine "getting away with" stating that some theologies lead to destruction??? Seems more than obvious even with a casual reading of this thread.
I don't know what the "church of Christ people" teach but if it's water baptism saving no wonder you're on the receiving end of "friendly fire".
_____________________________
“beware lest you lose the substance by grasping at the shadow”
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 7:23:56 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 557
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: online
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Rack another assumption up to Kelman.
You're post #302 was in regards to one loosing salvation.
My observation was based on that post alone. And here you pull water baptism into it.
I have to say I do remain entertained with my daily installment of "The Gospel According To Kelman".
_____________________________
My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 9:37:54 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
I'll not repeat all the verses you provided because they don't deal with the issue at hand. Which is: can an unbeliever pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him.
Yes that do...
OK, not sure of what "that do" even means or refers to, but you said "yes". So, you do admit that unbelievers can pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him. That said, why have you been arguing about whether Cornelius could have been an unbeliever at the beginning of Acts 10?
quote:
quote:
Please consider the Catholics. All of them recognize God. Yes, I agree that their theological views are not biblical, but that's not the point. They DO recognize that God exists. And they pray, some of them, continually. Now, based on that, do you consider ALL Catholics saved?
They don't deny Christ...
that doesn't answer my question. Do you consider all Catholics saved? yes or no.
quote:
quote:
Or another group, the Mormons. Yes, I'm quite aware of their theological problems. However, they DO recognize that God exists as Creator. And they pray to Him. Their view of Jesus is quite skewed, of course. But that is because they rejected that divine Truth when presented to them. They accepted the deception from Satan regarding Jesus. So, they recognize, honor and pray to God. Do you consider any of them saved?
They do not pray to God... They pray to something they created themselves...
You keep sidestepping the issue. They clearly do recognize a Divine Being as Creator of the universe, the Truth spoken of in Romans 1 that God has made evident to everyone. As I said, I'm aware of their theological errors, but they DO recognize the existence of God as Creator. Yes, their view of Him and His plan is quite different from what we believe, but that isn't the issue. Do you have an answer?
quote:
quote:
You simply fail to see the point in Romans 1. From creation, the point of Romans 1 is that God exists. There is nothing in Romans 1 that speaks of recognizing the Godhead. It is speaking of the Creator. That's the starting point of God's divine revelation to mankind. That He exists as Creator. Those who respond to that Truth will seek Him, as Cornelius did. Those who reject that Truth, by suppression of it, like fools, will NOT seek Him.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Please check out your local lexicon. The word is not "Godhead" but rather "theiotees", which means "divinity or divine nature". iow, creation speaks of its Creator as a Divine Being. There is NO mention of the Trinity in Rom 1, nor evidence of the Trinity in creation.
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quote:
Why do you insist that God must regenerate one in order to believe in His existence? There are many unbelievers who recognize the existence of God.
The recognize the existence of something they made up in their mind...
Rom 1 says that God has made evident His existence, attributes and divine nature to mankind. Do you deny that? Yes, man can recognize there is a Divine Creator, and then get screwed up into all kinds of false thinking. But Rom 1 is about God beginning with making His existence and attributes CLEARLY SEEN BY EVERYONE so that no one has any excuse for not recognizing that.
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Yes, God made Himself evident to Cornelius, as He does for everyone. Cornelius responded to that divine revelation by seeking God, fulfilling Acts 17:27, or the purpose that God created mankind in the first place.
There is no God without Christ...
Is that what Romans 1 says, or Acts 17:27? No, they do not. You are simply rejecting the clarity of Scripture: that God has made the first move toward mankind by making evident (clearly seen) His existence and divine nature so that man is without excuse for not recognizing, honoring and giving Him thanks.
iow, it all starts with believing that God exists. Those who believe that, and seek Him as a result, as Cornelius did, will be given more divine revelation.
That is what Heb 11:6b speaks of: "for he who comes to God (seeks God) must believe that He is (exists) and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him." What does "rewarder" speak of? Those who seek Him will be given more divne revelation upon which to make a decision.
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Do you really believe that a believer can be unsaved? Why? That makes absolutely no sense.
I don't believe he was not saved...
 Yes, I know you don't. But you can't demonstrate from the text why you think so. You have admitted that unbelievers can believe that God exists and even pray to Him.
Please explain what Acts 11:14 means to you. To me, it is clear that the angel told Cornelius that Peter would bring words by which he would be saved.
How could he be unsaved and a believer at the same time? You have failed to address this at all.
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quote:
Considering what Cornelius told Peter about what the angel told him, it is very clear that he was NOT SAVED when the angel appeared to him. Why do you deny that?
You deny Acts 10...
Hardly. I've repeatedly noted that he recognized, honored, and gave thanks to God. But you have failed to explain what the angel told Cornelius in Acts 11:14. He was NOT SAVED when the angel spoke to him.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 9:39:29 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you think I have "said" those who fear God and respond to the Truth of God were not believers? You terribly misunderstand me.
Because you said that people can do the same thing and some will not be saved...
Then please define what you mean by "same thing". My position has been very clear all along: those who believe will be saved, while those who don't believe will not be saved.
That is NOT the same thing. You need to define what you mean by "same thing".
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 10:41:27 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Do you agree or disagree that when God "makes evident to all" His existence, that man is faced with a choice: to either accept that evidence or reject that evidence?
I see Cornelius as one who accepted the evidence and sought God. I see fools as those wo suppress the truth of God's evidence, and don't seek God.
I also see God responding to Cornelius' seeking. I also see that God "gives them over to their own lusts" concerning those who suppress the truth.
If you disagree with these statements, please explain why.
SIH, you haven't responded to these statements. Do you either disagree or argee with them? If you disagree, please explain why. Thanks.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 6:32:06 PM
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FolkSingerBlues
Posts: 557
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: online
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I'd like comment on a recent post (Post #310)
I attend a Restoration Movement church that the doctrine that I believe is different from most of the rest of you.
However I consider all of you brothers in Christ.
In regards to those who are Catholic and Mormons although I the theologies they are taught and believe are not accurate according to what I believe is thorough or sound in doctrine, I do believe that there may be those among it's population that are more concerned with seeing and knowing God. Among it's members of the Catholic and Mormon churches I can see where there may be some soul struggling with the truth and God's grace being sufficient for them.
That does not mean that I accept the heresies that they teach as doctrine to be true, sound or acceptable.
I can't judge the individual based on the masses.
_____________________________
My New Blog site
Proof texting is a very dangerous thing...If we were given the Scriptures it was to humble us into realizing God is right and the rest of us are just guessing.
-Rich Mullins
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 10:23:38 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
OK, not sure of what "that do" even means or refers to, but you said "yes". So, you do admit that unbelievers can pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him. That said, why have you been arguing about whether Cornelius could have been an unbeliever at the beginning of Acts 10?
For the record that should be , Yes they do, and that is referring to the verses I posted... So NO, I don't admit that that unbelievers can pray to God and recognize His existence as you see it...
quote:
that doesn't answer my question. Do you consider all Catholics saved? yes or no.
No... Just as I don't consider everyone on this forum saved...
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You keep sidestepping the issue. They clearly do recognize a Divine Being as Creator of the universe, the Truth spoken of in Romans 1 that God has made evident to everyone.
The TRUTH of God in Romans 1 cannot exclude any part of the truth...
quote:
As I said, I'm aware of their theological errors, but they DO recognize the existence of God as Creator. Yes, their view of Him and His plan is quite different from what we believe, but that isn't the issue. Do you have an answer?
God the Creator sans Christ isn't God... Christ wasn't absent at Creation... Why do you believe He's not seen in Creation?
quote:
Please check out your local lexicon. The word is not "Godhead" but rather "theiotees", which means "divinity or divine nature". iow, creation speaks of its Creator as a Divine Being. There is NO mention of the Trinity in Rom 1, nor evidence of the Trinity in creation.
If there isn't the TRUTH isn't evident in Creation... I believe it is...
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You have admitted that unbelievers can believe that God exists and even pray to Him.
No I didn't... In your haste to believe you are right you'll accept even a typo...LOL...
quote:
How could he be unsaved and a believer at the same time? You have failed to address this at all.
I don't believe he wasn't saved...
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 10:24:39 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you think I have "said" those who fear God and respond to the Truth of God were not believers? You terribly misunderstand me.
Because you said that people can do the same thing and some will not be saved...
Then please define what you mean by "same thing". My position has been very clear all along: those who believe will be saved, while those who don't believe will not be saved.
That is NOT the same thing. You need to define what you mean by "same thing".
You said it... I repeated your words...
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/9/2008 10:27:50 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Do you agree or disagree that when God "makes evident to all" His existence, that man is faced with a choice: to either accept that evidence or reject that evidence?
I see Cornelius as one who accepted the evidence and sought God. I see fools as those wo suppress the truth of God's evidence, and don't seek God.
I also see God responding to Cornelius' seeking. I also see that God "gives them over to their own lusts" concerning those who suppress the truth.
If you disagree with these statements, please explain why.
SIH, you haven't responded to these statements. Do you either disagree or argee with them? If you disagree, please explain why. Thanks.
Yes I did... And since we've come to this, you seem to have forgotten about those who died outside the ark...
POST 301...
BTW... Once again...
Nope...
I asked:
Where those who feared God and prayed to Him always in the OT not saved?
You said:
Some were and some weren't.
How can people doing the same thing come to different results?
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 8:14:45 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
OK, not sure of what "that do" even means or refers to, but you said "yes". So, you do admit that unbelievers can pray to God and recognize His existence, which is a form of honoring Him. That said, why have you been arguing about whether Cornelius could have been an unbeliever at the beginning of Acts 10?
For the record that should be , Yes they do, and that is referring to the verses I posted... So NO, I don't admit that that unbelievers can pray to God and recognize His existence as you see it...
quote:
that doesn't answer my question. Do you consider all Catholics saved? yes or no.
No... Just as I don't consider everyone on this forum saved...
So, then from what you've just said above, then you would consider that such ones that aren't saved also don't recognize the existence of God and don't pray to Him?
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quote:
You keep sidestepping the issue. They clearly do recognize a Divine Being as Creator of the universe, the Truth spoken of in Romans 1 that God has made evident to everyone.
The TRUTH of God in Romans 1 cannot exclude any part of the truth...
What is the TRUTH of God referred to in Rom 1? It is His existence, His attributes, and His divine nature. One can suppress or reject any part of that truth, as many do. Many believe that God exists, but they deny His attributes, or divine nature in some combination.
The very reason religions even exist is because man does recognize the existence of God. Yes, they twist it all up into false religions, but the fact remains that many unbelievers DO in fact believe in God. Not that it saves them, though.
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quote:
As I said, I'm aware of their theological errors, but they DO recognize the existence of God as Creator. Yes, their view of Him and His plan is quite different from what we believe, but that isn't the issue. Do you have an answer?
God the Creator sans Christ isn't God... Christ wasn't absent at Creation... Why do you believe He's not seen in Creation?
I never said Christ wasn't in the Creation. But Romans 1 isn't about Christ. It is about the initial divine revelation that God makes evident to everyone. Which is the basis for why men would even seek Him. We see that Cornelius did seek Him, but we also see that fools suppress the truth of His existence and don't seek Him.
Cornelius was provided divine revelation at least 3 different times, and he believed the evidence each time. But it wasn't until the 3rd time that the gospel of Jesus Christ was even presented.
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You have admitted that unbelievers can believe that God exists and even pray to Him.
No I didn't... In your haste to believe you are right you'll accept even a typo...LOL...
One needs to proof read before hitting the OK button!
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quote:
How could he be unsaved and a believer at the same time? You have failed to address this at all.
I don't believe he wasn't saved...
Yes, yes, I know that you don't think he was.
What you continue to fail to answer is how you defend your position in the light of Acts 11:14, where the angel told Cornelius that Peter would bring words by which you and your household would be saved.
Please explain what the angel meant about "would be saved" if he were already saved.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 8:17:22 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Why do you think I have "said" those who fear God and respond to the Truth of God were not believers? You terribly misunderstand me.
Because you said that people can do the same thing and some will not be saved...
Then please define what you mean by "same thing". My position has been very clear all along: those who believe will be saved, while those who don't believe will not be saved.
That is NOT the same thing. You need to define what you mean by "same thing".
You said it... I repeated your words...
Seems you are just trying to be difficult, huh? Whatever you think I said, I cleared it up in the quote above. So please explain what you think I was referring to by "claiming" people can do the "same thing" and some will and some won't be saved.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 8:20:19 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
Do you agree or disagree that when God "makes evident to all" His existence, that man is faced with a choice: to either accept that evidence or reject that evidence?
I see Cornelius as one who accepted the evidence and sought God. I see fools as those wo suppress the truth of God's evidence, and don't seek God.
I also see God responding to Cornelius' seeking. I also see that God "gives them over to their own lusts" concerning those who suppress the truth.
If you disagree with these statements, please explain why.
SIH, you haven't responded to these statements. Do you either disagree or argee with them? If you disagree, please explain why. Thanks.
Yes I did... And since we've come to this, you seem to have forgotten about those who died outside the ark...
POST 301...
BTW... Once again...
Nope...
I asked:
Where those who feared God and prayed to Him always in the OT not saved?
You said:
Some were and some weren't.
How can people doing the same thing come to different results?
OK, so now I understand. Why do you think that "fearing God and praying to Him" equal salvific faith? They aren't the "same thing".
When people place their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, they are saved. All who do this are saved. That is the only "same thing" that results in being saved.
I hope you are clear on this now.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 7:31:31 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
I never said Christ wasn't in the Creation. But Romans 1 isn't about Christ. It is about the initial divine revelation that God makes evident to everyone. Which is the basis for why men would even seek Him.
How is Christ absent in Romans 1 if the TRUTH of God is evident in creation?
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 7:34:01 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
OK, so now I understand. Why do you think that "fearing God and praying to Him" equal salvific faith? They aren't the "same thing".
I never said they are the same thing....
quote:
I hope you are clear on this now.
I was always clear....
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 7:35:03 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
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Was anyone saved outside the ark?
John
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/10/2008 8:38:26 PM
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loloidong
Posts: 60
Joined: 7/8/2008
From: Seattle, WA
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Same question can be asked on the Lord's return scenario.
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RE: Salvation for the un-accountable? - 7/11/2008 11:47:28 AM
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FreeGrace
Posts: 7881
Joined: 12/30/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
I never said Christ wasn't in the Creation. But Romans 1 isn't about Christ. It is about the initial divine revelation that God makes evident to everyone. Which is the basis for why men would even seek Him.
How is Christ absent in Romans 1 if the TRUTH of God is evident in creation?
When God makes evident to all of mankind "that whi | | |
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