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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 5:49:44 PM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
I don't believe it's possible to determine who exactly THE anti-Christ is. When it happens, it will be out of our hands and in God's hands. It doesn't do us, as Christians, any good to even try to speculate who the ani-Christ is. The anti-Christ will come into power no matter what we do, and then his power will be defeated by Jesus.
I in general agree with your sensible approach here. However, there is an issue that doesn't fit with the 'Jesus is gonna win anyway, and we can't stop him if he's coming anyway' theory.
The problem is, if you hold to the theory of 'it doesn't matter'. Lets say the anti-christ (and i'm not saying it is) was Obama. You've said to yourself, it doesn't matter. He starts to impress you with his actions, words and new thinking. You accept him and all he says. You become blinded to his deceptions and ensnared in his lies so badly you don't see the truth anymore. You run the risk of being deceived without realising it.
MAT 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
2 Thes 2 9-11 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
The point i'm making is that when he comes, he's gonna seem fare, kind, bringing good things, seeming righteous, seem to be bringing hope, peace and the whole party box.
If we are of the mind to 'not bother being watchful', we could come un-stuck!
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 7:55:09 PM
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bob97
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I wholeheartedly agree Sonic…we should be aware and prepared for what tomorrow brings.
We’re talking about a person who will be smooth enough to deceive even the elect if that is possible. We should test all things.
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.
But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. Mar 13:22-23
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 8:22:43 PM
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SonicStudent
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Yes Bob, well said!
Many naively think that anti-Christ will be a dictator of the traditional type. I don't believe he will be. Everything he says will seem fare and reasonable, but will in essence contradict the principles and character of God, but so subtlety that most non believers of the Lord and even many believers will be taken in. They'll see what he says as a real solution that will work for the greater good within the hostile situations that threaten the nations at that time.
I always remember Adam and Eve. The serpent's words sounded reasonable, with very subtle twists on God's words that didn't 'seem' to really contradict what God said. Wrapping Adam & Eve around his little finger. He played what God had said to sound like 'ahh this is what God really meant, or was really hiding!
Never mind Adam & Eve, when Jesus overcame Satan. Satan didn't say to Jesus, 'look Your Father's words are wrong, do this instead'! No, he used His Father's very words out of context to try to trick Jesus. Do we think it will be any different for us when he starts talking?
If we are not looking for 'the lie' we may not even notice it!
Blessing Bob
Sonic
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 9:20:16 PM
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bob97
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It’s very possible Sonic that we will not recognize the AC for sure until the middle of the week, when the covenant is broken and the guy seats himself in the temple. Although I expect those who keep a close watch will have a pretty good ideal before that point.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 9:39:32 PM
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bob97
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Well based on the way this election is moving 2015 is looking like it might be the real deal. 
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 10:42:45 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, Thessa.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
...what part of the Left Behind Series did you find innacurate?
Where to start... Maybe where people that rejected the Gospel all the sudden go saved after the rapture. Or maybe where someone took the Mark of the Beast but was saved.
If someone reads the LB series before reading the Bible, they'll get a version of the end times created for the mass market and to fill Mr. LaHaye's bank account.
Okay apparently you read the books. I havent. Ive just seen the movies. And nowhere in the movies did that happen.
OH, yes, they happened! JimboFletch is correct. I don't endorse the book series, either, but I have at least read the series. The parts that get to me the most are the silly ways that angels, the two witnesses, and even Yeshua` talk! They can only say things that are direct quotes from English Bibles! That's ridiculous! Yeshua` doesn't need to say only those things that are found in the Bible; when He speaks, what He says BECOMES Scripture!
The authors also have very little understanding of Hebrew culture, the language, or the Land! They don't talk about Shabbat, or Mitzvot, or even the Torah! As fiction goes, the books are ... okay. But, as far as how they adhere to the Scriptures, I'd give them a D minus!
Retrobyter
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 10:56:21 PM
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19ramman85
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Zack_NorcalRiders
is there any others out there that believe obama will be a key runner in the end times ?
all the prophecys have been fulfilled like the knowledge boost and sattelite TV all over the world . i forgot what verses they were though but yeah i think we could be looking at the end of days . Well im gonna get raptured but it still hurts my heart to think of how terrible life will be in those times . but god is in control of everything
Well, that would be a nice thought, I suppose- but .............
Where's all the calamities that are suppose to take place, ie - there should be storms, financial problems, illnesses, and a slew of other things that are suppose to go wrong, the likes that haven't been seen - yet, the world over. And if I'm not mistaken - there is suppose to be a humongus earthquake that has never happen before, nor will ever happen again- that is suppose to take place.
And lest not forget the biggy -
People will have lost faith in God, and will wonder and scoff at the idea of Him returning (My translation of the verse- which of course- I can't find/remember!)
Seems to me - these two very important/crucial points have yet to be fulfilled - yet; 1) We are still going thru a - "revival", of sorts. 2) All nations haven't have the Word preached to them - yet.
All prior to the Anti-Christ.
And remember - Adolf Hitler was the - Supposed Anti-Christ of the 1940's.
Hmmmmm - seems we (Christians) are still all here yet.
So I wouldn't get too excited about the - "end times", being here - yet.
-charles
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 10:57:59 PM
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19ramman85
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
Well based on the way this election is moving 2015 is looking like it might be the real deal.
Bob
I thought according to the Mayan calender, and other doomsdayers - the world is supposed to end about 12/2012?
lol
-charles
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 11:12:02 PM
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bob97
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ramman...you might want to read "Discoveries of biblical significance" here in Prophecy & End Times to see what I'm talking about.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 11:14:55 PM
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Retrobyter
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Shalom, 19ramman85.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 19ramman85
quote:
ORIGINAL: Zack_NorcalRiders
is there any others out there that believe obama will be a key runner in the end times ?
all the prophecys have been fulfilled like the knowledge boost and sattelite TV all over the world . i forgot what verses they were though but yeah i think we could be looking at the end of days . Well im gonna get raptured but it still hurts my heart to think of how terrible life will be in those times . but god is in control of everything
Well, that would be a nice thought, I suppose- but .............
Where's all the calamities that are suppose to take place, ie - there should be storms, financial problems, illnesses, and a slew of other things that are suppose to go wrong, the likes that haven't been seen - yet, the world over. And if I'm not mistaken - there is suppose to be a humongus earthquake that has never happen before, nor will ever happen again- that is suppose to take place.
And lest not forget the biggy -
People will have lost faith in God, and will wonder and scoff at the idea of Him returning (My translation of the verse- which of course- I can't find/remember!)
Seems to me - these two very important/crucial points have yet to be fulfilled - yet; 1) We are still going thru a - "revival", of sorts. 2) All nations haven't have the Word preached to them - yet.
All prior to the Anti-Christ.
And remember - Adolf Hitler was the - Supposed Anti-Christ of the 1940's.
Hmmmmm - seems we (Christians) are still all here yet.
So I wouldn't get too excited about the - "end times", being here - yet.
-charles
Shalom, Charles.
The verse you were thinking about is found in II Peter 3:3 although you may have mixed that verse with II Thessalonians 2:3.
Just thought I'd step in to help (although I personally don't believe in an "Antichrist," per se.
Retrobyter
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/4/2008 11:44:32 PM
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19ramman85
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Retrobyter - The verse you were thinking about is found in II Peter 3:3
Yup - that's the one! IIPeter3:3-4; First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.
'n no - I don't believe I was mixing those two verses up (completely different in more ways than one, amen?)
'N bob - I quickly read thru some of those replies you were talking about.
And all I can say is - some make sense, and some - well ......
Let's just say. I'm leaving some of it up to conjecture/speculation - like all the rest who've tried to predict the end times thru-out the ages.
Although I am convineced we are at least in the beginning of the end, if you know what I mean!
'N BTW - doesn't it just amaze you that Jesus doesn't know when its going to occur, only the Father - yet they are one?
I find it fascinating, myself!
-charles
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 12:19:46 AM
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bob97
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quote:
'N BTW - doesn't it just amaze you that Jesus doesn't know when its going to occur, only the Father - yet they are one?
Yes...well I'm not sure we know exactly what Christ was telling us. You have to study the Feast of Rosh Hashanah to fully understand what I'm talking about.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 12:38:31 AM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
It’s very possible Sonic that we will not recognize the AC for sure until the middle of the week, when the covenant is broken and the guy seats himself in the temple. Although I expect those who keep a close watch will have a pretty good ideal before that point.
I think you're right, all we can do is be aware of words and actions as we do already, and judge things against the word of God.
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 12:42:07 AM
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Zack_NorcalRiders
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
It’s very possible Sonic that we will not recognize the AC for sure until the middle of the week, when the covenant is broken and the guy seats himself in the temple. Although I expect those who keep a close watch will have a pretty good ideal before that point.
when does this happen? middle of the week like this week? or next year or what .
_____________________________
Lord forgive me for i have sinned , i hit a 4th gear jump 5th gear pinned
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 1:00:03 AM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
when does this happen? middle of the week like this week? or next year or what .
Hi Zack,
First thing to remember is that a week in prophecy, is a year of weeks, meaning seven years, not seven days!
We don't know when these things will happen. God gave us signs to look out for, which there are just so many things in prophecy that gives that generation an idea.
But one of the main prophecies concerning anti-christ is that he will confirm a peace covenant between Israel and her enemies for seven years, and only half way through, breaks the covenant, and sets up the 'abomination of desolation' in the temple. There's another sign, there are those in Israel, who are preparing to build the Jewish temple, and most prophecy watchers believe it must be built, so anti christ can defile it.
I always say personally, don't say that someone 'is' the anti-christ. because there have been people that have been sure in the past and been wrong, and this dis-credits them to an extent.
However, it's fare to say that there is a lot about Obama that has made many Christians ears stand-up! Especially when he openly mocked our Lords srmon on the mount, and rejected the Law by mocking it. But there are more reasons, which if you do a little research you'll see.
Be aware however, that this is nothing to do with racism in anyway. It's a wonderful thing that a African American has finally got in power. America needed that.
It's about the person of Obama, his statements, his almost worshiped status by many, that have said some strange stuff and much more.
I personally am keeping a very close eye on him. If he shows anything, he shows a world that feels 'so' lost, they are looking for a savour to bring them answers and hope. But when the answer giver mocks the Lord as he has, I can't imagine Christians accepting him, yet they have.
It shows a world that feels lost and seems to be ripe for a saviour to follow. A very dangerious time when the world has more insecurity than ever before. When he can say the stuff against Christ and God has he has done, and still win the nation over, then as far as i see it, America is becoming a very different place than the America that was established on the bible.
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/5/2008 1:46:39 AM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 4:13:49 AM
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Psalm30
Posts: 11
Joined: 2/8/2006
From: northern california
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SonicStudent
quote:
when does this happen? middle of the week like this week? or next year or what .
Hi Zack,
First thing to remember is that a week in prophecy, is a year of weeks, meaning seven years, not seven days!
We don't know when these things will happen. God gave us signs to look out for, which there are just so many things in prophecy that gives that generation an idea.
But one of the main prophecies concerning anti-christ is that he will confirm a peace covenant between Israel and her enemies for seven years, and only half way through, breaks the covenant, and sets up the 'abomination of desolation' in the temple. There's another sign, there are those in Israel, who are preparing to build the Jewish temple, and most prophecy watchers believe it must be built, so anti christ can defile it.
I always say personally, don't say that someone 'is' the anti-christ. because there have been people that have been sure in the past and been wrong, and this dis-credits them to an extent.
However, it's fare to say that there is a lot about Obama that has made many Christians ears stand-up! Especially when he openly mocked our Lords srmon on the mount, and rejected the Law by mocking it. But there are more reasons, which if you do a little research you'll see.
Be aware however, that this is nothing to do with racism in anyway. It's a wonderful thing that a African American has finally got in power. America needed that.
It's about the person of Obama, his statements, his almost worshiped status by many, that have said some strange stuff and much more.
I personally am keeping a very close eye on him. If he shows anything, he shows a world that feels 'so' lost, they are looking for a savour to bring them answers and hope. But when the answer giver mocks the Lord as he has, I can't imagine Christians accepting him, yet they have.
It shows a world that feels lost and seems to be ripe for a saviour to follow. A very dangerious time when the world has more insecurity than ever before. When he can say the stuff against Christ and God has he has done, and still win the nation over, then as far as i see it, America is becoming a very different place than the America that was established on the bible.
+1 nice comment. did u listen to his speech in chicago right after he got elected? it was very creepy!
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 8:46:52 AM
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SonicStudent
Posts: 439
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quote:
+1 nice comment. did u listen to his speech in chicago right after he got elected? it was very creepy!
No, stuck in the UK, so prob didn't show it in full. Please do tell all?????????
You know the UK, it's that extra mini state of America across the water from New York. Similar to America, but more rain, McDonald's burgers are smaller and our gas is twice the price. We don't have the white house, instead we have a terrace house in London where our Prime minister lives.
Anyway LOL, do tell all please 
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 10:26:09 AM
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Limulus
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I see this as having 4+ or more years of murdering children in the name of abortion. This nation deserves God's wrath.
_____________________________
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 11:33:54 AM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Limulus
I see this as having 4+ or more years of murdering children in the name of abortion. This nation deserves God's wrath.
Yep...America got the king she wanted. 
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 11:39:44 AM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please do not turn this into an Obama Critique thread. This thread is specifically about whether or not Obama fits into the End Times prophecies.
Tricia
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Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat.
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 12:48:09 PM
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Peter_Gunn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Peter_Gunn
Yep...America got the king she wanted.
And, I believe, that as king of America, he could easily fill the bill of The Anti-Christ, thus being an end-times player.
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 1:22:56 PM
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SonicStudent
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As much as I am upset that Obama has won, because of his lack of respect for God's word and Son's words and the possibility that it is possible he could very well be anti-Christ and many other reasons.
And as upset as i am for America, that she hasn't voted on a Godly basis in some ways. I wouldn't be so quick to dish out judgement. For the simple reason which is this:
God doesn't desire that any should perish!
And that, Jesus came into the world to save sinners.
And that He is long suffering with us because of His great love toward us.
And that his pure desire is that, 'all would come to the knowledge of the truth that they might be saved!
Just as important, 'By grace, 'we' have been saved, not by any works of righteousness that 'we' have done, but through (and only) the gift of God.
We deserve judgement, everyone of us. We are no better than a single person on God's green earth, and only by God's amazing love do we even see the errors seen here. And we would be hypocrites if we, who have been spared judgement and shown mercy, then go on to say 'this nation deserves judgement! We all deserve judgement!
What we should do is recognise the grace shown us, and pray God to save all in America, make a change, ask for mercy and time for the nations, and pray that 'something' changes, to bring God's truth back into government!
Blessings
Sonic
< Message edited by SonicStudent -- 11/5/2008 4:20:42 PM >
_____________________________
"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 5:29:27 PM
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Dan94
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Does Obama fit into end time prophecy? Yes..and so did Hitler, but I think Hitler was a fore shadow of which to come. (you notice how Satan copies the things of God) Hitler tested the waters, so to speak on what the world and "A Nation" would put up with. Did you see the glassy eyed stares of Obama supporters? Now go back and look at some of the World War 2 news reels of those days....see the resemblance? Just about every Hollywood star and celebrity is supporting him. He is going along with the gay agenda that Hollywood embraces with great zeal. If anyone thinks there is not a gay "agenda" in films, media and television, then your not paying attention.
So whats wrong with that?...does Sodom and Gomorrah ring a bell? The spiritual Babylon is all around us, why look for it in just Iraq? Yes keep watching, no man knows the hour but we are to know the season. Has not Israel been in Her land for 50 years? How long is a biblical generation?
The Jews were sitting around Europe and had no real thought about obeying the command of God to go and inhabit the Promised Land. Then Hitler and the Holocaust and the Jews were once again scattered, but this time to the land God had chosen for them 6000 years ago. Within 3 years they were a nation once again, fulfilling prophecy in our time. Did God send this persecution? They were not being obedient..did He send King Nebuchadnezzar? did He not call him, His servant?. Look I'm not being hard hearted towards the Jews, I love the Jewish people. But the point I'm trying to make is the Jewish Nation sits in the middle of all end time prophecies. Obama wants to sit down and talk with that Iranian "nut case", maybe to sell out Israel.
Brothers and sisters can you not sense this?
Sonic, I will also be watching Obama with careful consideration, but I can promise you one thing. I will not be watching with a glassy eyed stare, that is reserved for Christ alone.
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 6:00:06 PM
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TorahsTruth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan94
Did you see the glassy eyed stares of Obama supporters? Now go back and look at some of the World War 2 news reels of those days....see the resemblance? Just about every Hollywood star and celebrity is supporting him. Oh brother. Did you see those who were supporting McCain? Bush? Honestly, this analogy is flawed beyond desciption.
quote:
He is going along with the gay agenda that Hollywood embraces with great zeal. Joe Biden said it himself that Obama and himself do not endorse homosexuality and that marriage is between a man and women. Many of the things I have read in this thread make me even wonder if people actually read and listen to what Obama says instead of going off horrible secondary information. How do I know this? Simple. Earlier in the thread Obama was accused of not supporting Israel, but if you actually listened to Obama, he said he will prevent any attack on Israel, but if Israel was to be attacked in the face of this, he will have no problem aiding Israel militarily. Some of the things written in this thread makes my head hurt. 
This is exciting as not to long ago Americans were lynching black people out in public, legally I might add, to with holding their rights and equating them with animals, to now having a black man lead the country. This is exciting on a historical level as this is revolutionary to this country.
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RE: Obama and The End Times... - 11/5/2008 6:38:21 PM
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SonicStudent
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quote:
Sonic, I will also be watching Obama with careful consideration, but I can promise you one thing. I will not be watching with a glassy eyed stare, that is reserved for Christ alone.
I agree fully, and am sickened how this man has been chosen over God and Christ. In the end, that is what it boils down too. I staggered me greatly to see so many people cheer as he mocked God's Law and mocked the sermon on the mount. It's on youtube if anyone missed it and wants to check it out, but here it is in text form;
Barack Obama mocked God's authority when he said, "Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination?
How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith?
Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount - a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defence Department would survive its application?
So before we get carried away, let’s read our bibles. Folks haven’t been reading their bibles.”
I say I don't know if Obama is anti-Christ, because I don't know! But i'll tell you this - All the conditions that the bible indicates will be present at the end are here (and i'm not talking about earthquakes and tidal waves). The great apostasy is sooooo here that if you can't see it, your blind! God's people are selling out their beliefs at break neck speed. Compromise on gay issues in the world and even worse, in the church is heart breaking.
The world has entered into a new belief system, where all things are legal, nothing is sin, as long as it's real to you, then it's your own reality and that's all that matters.
No longer can anyone say, 'hey, that's wrong or that's sin', without a backlash coming at you that calls you out dated.
Peace is the in-vogue value at all costs, which sounds cool. Until you realise that the peace they are preaching is at a massive cost. It's a peace that says, 'compromise' and we'll have peace. Lower your godly values, and we'll have a form of peace. Accept homosexuality as just another life style choice and there won't be any upset in that area again. The problem is, God plainly says that homosexuality is an abomination and a sin that needs to be repented of.
Likewise, this new world says, 'all religious beliefs should agree to worship together as one, then we'll have religious peace’. It says each religion has truth within it, and no single religion can have a statement of ultimate knowledge of God or monopoly on mans salvation. We should embrace one another’s differences, this is what God wants.
The problem is, only one can be correct! To be a Christian is to 'rest you're hope 'fully' on the salvation that will be brought to us through CHRIST JESUS, ONLY'!!! and he is the only truth, and NO ONE comes to the father But By Him, Jesus! That there is NO OTHER name given under heaven by which we must be saved.
So many "Christians" have denied God's words as 'the same yesterday, today and forever', and begun denying fundamental truths of God's word, to be able to 'fit in' with this, brave new world of unity!
Obama accepts this view, embracing its liberalism. And when you are the most powerful man in the world, that's dangerous!
So yes, seeing the position he now has, you have to keep an eye on him and keep in mind that this man, may just be the man the bible calls ‘the man of sin’.
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"I, even I, am the one who wipes out your transgressions for My own sake, and I will not remember your sins." Isaiah 43:25
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