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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/1/2008 7:43:35 PM
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zondie
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From: The Bluegrass State
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quote:
Dove wrote:
In the marriage relationship I see in scripture, we would become even more of what we are and what He designed us to be. We would be lovingly nourished to bring forth more of the unique identity we are intended to be, not less. As we in turn would lovingly nurture our spouse to accomplish and bring forth more fruit of his nature.
This is how I view us as being 'no more twain, but one'. (Complete.)
quote:
Dove wrote:
We should be serving and being served, nurturing and being nurtured. The grace should be free flowing. When there is a burden, our spouse should be the first one to pick up the weight and help carry it.
EXACTLY! And that's what God expects of a marital relationship. We all should remember to review our vows. After all, we we're joined together by, God Himself!
{Loved that post, Dove!} Had to read and re-read it!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/1/2008 9:14:49 PM
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Pengie
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My husband surprised me with a new baby today! Check her out on My Photobucket. She is in the album under "Thumbelina".
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/1/2008 9:27:48 PM
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Doveflight
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zondie, leah: I am so glad my post was not taken wrong and did not offend.
Pengie, Your new little one is precious. Thanks for sharing.
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If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 12:11:50 AM
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magdaleine
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Dove, I agree with all you said. Knowing I don't have what you described is very painful--though I know you don't have it either. I've been that woman arriving at church with four kids in tow, no husband with me and drained by 9:00 a.m. I've also been places with my husband where he's bright and I'm anything but and he fails to notice.
I'm beginning to realize something about dh. He seems to be genuinely clued out about a lot of things. He says things that do the very opposite of what he's intending. It's almost as if he's clued out about social interaction except that he is extremely successful in his work and well liked by everyone around him (or most every one).
I know that this fear of mine (that I'm just recognizing) is not just related to dh, but rather a general, pervasive fear that touches all my relationships and interactions, even here, and not just marriage--though marriage is probably the biggest part of it.
But this fear has its roots in my earliest childhood: My father beating/spanking me as a newborn; the sternness of my father and his father with whom we lived when I was a preschooler and (this just came to me) the expectation that I was SUPPOSED to be "invisible" (we would have a daily "worship" time for which the entire household gathered and I wasn't allowed to move a hair, shift my position or make a peep); the "shoving aside" that happened as a result of my younger sister (by a year) being severely burned in a car accident.
Perhaps this last is one of the bigger contributors and it too is a recent discovery on my part. It's totally understandable that parents would put all their energies into a severely injured child and that the other child would be jealous and feel shoved aside. Perfectly understandable too, that people would bring gifts for her when she was in the hospital as she often was. But I'm beginning to realize that this had a pivotal place in my formation. I had to compete to be noticed.
I remember two injuries I sustained when I was 6 or 7. In one, my mom was carrying a pot filled with weiners and boiling water and it spilled all over my leg. In the other, I had scratched my sister in some sort of spat and my mom clawed my face in retaliation so one cheek became a bloody mess. But I remember each time being GLAD because now maybe I would get the attention my sister got.
All through growing up, it seems like I had to be the best in order to be noticed--and I worked hard to achieve that in every part of my life. So this fear of being invisible, being lost, nothing, is totally separate from dh. But...!
I just thought of something. I've been reading about bitter root judgments and expectancy. The authors say that when we experience or observe something as a child (an adult too, I suppose), we judge the person connected to that event and that judgment becomes an expectation that others will be/do the same. They say that what happens, especially in a marriage but not just there, is that our expectancy actually causes the other to behave in ways to fulfill that expectancy. I repeated this to my psychiatrist today and though the terms are "Christianese," she nodded her head in agreement with the principle.
So, if I grew up and then married with the unconscious expectancy that I would be invisible or a nothing, according to the reasoning of these authors (and the agreement of my doctor), my dh would begin to behave in ways to fulfill that expectancy and indeed treat me like I am invisible or nothing; worthless.
Of course, if that is true, then the corollary would also be true. If I have an expectancy for positive things, dh and others would unconsciously adjust their behaviour etc. to fulfill that expectancy.
I'm kind of writing and thinking together at the same time here--exploring more of what I was trying to say this afternoon.
I asked the question, does my fear of becoming nothing interfere with my ability to lose myself in Christ and thus find my identity in him? I wrote it out because it had just come to my mind and I didn't want to lose it before I had a chance to expore the thought. My mind hasn't been operating at full speed these days. Could the very barriers I've erected to protect my identity and being from dh and others also be barriers that keep me from relating to God fully and completely? I think it's going to take time and a clearer mind to chew that one through to conclusion. But often what we do in the physical and tangible is translated somehow into the spiritual so this is a possibility, though not a certainty.
I think the sentence that stood out to me the most in what you wrote, Dove, was this: We should be creating art and writing music and literature that compells society to evaluate and think of truth. I like that and it's something so easy to forget or ignore because one is focused on simple survival. You wrote so many good things. Thank you.
quote:
ORIGINAL: agapetos
quote:
Thanks, Stovie, but if you keep this up, you're going to run out of nice things to say. Not a chance girl... but should that ever happen, I suspect there's plenty of people who would step into my space! 
You're a sweetheart!
Pengie! What a nice surprise for you! Wow! How nice of your husband!
I had a thought but it just vanished.
Another thought that came to me this evening is that we need to get started on the Christmas Card Exchange. I guess I'll put together an op and start a thread in the next day or two. This will be the eighth year we've done this. Will it be too much for me to do this year? I don't know but I'll take a stab at it and if I simply can't do it, I'll look for someone to take over.
My weekend is going to be busy. On Friday I'll be attending a luncheon fund-raising for a continental ministry based here in Winnipeg. Saturday afternoon the writers' group I joined meets and I've been asked to read something I wrote for critique. Sunday after church is a potluck for all those on the prayer team. Tuesday I start the 16 week course I'm taking on prayer as a follow up to the seminar I attended a couple weekends ago.
My book is nearing its final stages by all appearances (I've said this more than once and been disappointed so I'm not holding my breath) and so I have to start putting together a marketting plan: contacting the local bookstore to see if they would sponsor the launch of the book, making a list of organizations and media to whom I will promote the book, writing press releases, sending out letters and so on. That's kind of daunting and I'm not sure at what point I connect with the bookstore about the launch. Do I wait till I have the book in hand or do I contact them now and get things set up? Thing is, my publisher has not been reliable about timing so if I set a date with the bookstore, can I be sure we'll have the books in time?
And then there are birthdays and Thanksgiving. Canadian Thanksgiving is the second Monday in October--a week and a half away. Ds2's birthday is two days before that and we haven't yet celebrated ds3's birthday that was on September 11 because of all the stuff that's happened in the meantime. So all that has to be organized--gifts bought and meals prepared (or eaten out if I can afford that).
Ds3 has done so well on his "visit" home this time that he will likely be discharged from the hospital next week and ds4 is coming home for a week starting next Thursday.
No wonder I'm exhausted. Just thinking about it all makes me close my eyes and want to put my head on a pillow. I think I'll go do that.
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Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 7:17:46 AM
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Doveflight
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Good morning, Maggie. I am not the only one who spent last evening lieing in bed wondering about the upcoming holiday season. This will be our first since the separation. My heart grieves for the children. This is a discussion h and I must begin now.
You are extrememly introspective. You search inside for your heart deeply in matters that don't seem right. My first impulse is to encourage you to seek these answers in prayer time, not intellectual exercise. Secondly, it is most common for us to identify with God/Christ as we would another individual. I remember the day that in prayer God showed me that He is not like any man I know. My expectations of Him are both wrong and far too short. He began to show me His sovereignty, His righteousness, His character. I had to set Him apart from any experience or expectation I had in my mind.
I am sure, Maggie, the God loves your heart. He loves your seeking after Him in all things.
Have a great day.
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 8:32:08 AM
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magdaleine
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Ben, you're a sweetheart too.
quote:
My first impulse is to encourage you to seek these answers in prayer time, not intellectual exercise.
I agree. Most of the questions I ask, as in the above posts, are questions I'm laying on the table for God to answer--and he usually does. Any insight I gain is most certainly from him and I know he delights to give them to me as I am ready for those truths. I think that as we uncover truths about ourselves and the lies we subconsciously believe, we can root out the unhealthy, ungodly sources of how we think and behave and move closer to who God made us to be.
_____________________________
Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 8:34:57 AM
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magdaleine
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Oh! And Dove, I hope you can work something out for the holidays that meets your children's needs while keeping them and yourself safe.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 6:30:48 PM
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magdaleine
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I'm copying what I sent to folks in an e-mail. I don't have the wherewithal to say it in a new way.
I'll be so glad when I don't have to send these out anymore, when I can say with certainty, "All is well. We've made it through." I do so appreciate your prayers.
Ds3 was home on a two-day pass from the hospital, scheduled to return this evening. He did so very, very well until this afternoon. He was bright, cheerful, active, had things to do.
This afternoon I took him to the police station at the advice of his credit card company. Someone's been using his card fraudulently since June. As we left the station to come home, he said a few things that indicated that all was not well. He was thinking about using weights to drown himself and talking about how nice it would be to feel warm blood on his skin from cutting himself. I didn't have a clue what to do, except to stay calm. Finally I put my hand on his arm and prayed for him. Before we got home, he suggested I take him back to the hospital, which I did.
I don't know how much more of this I can take. When I got home, I told dh that ds3 was back at the hospital because he was having thoughts of suicide and self harm (didn't give the details I've given here). His response was almost more stressful to deal with than ds3 was. I can't carry the weight of this for the whole family. I tried to talk to dh about his response but I didn't do a good job because I was speaking in frustration and anger. He's obviously having a hard time with this too--in different ways than I am.
I don't even know what to ask you to pray about or for, but I'm guessing you can figure it out. Thank you so much for standing in the gap, allowing me to share my concerns and fears and then walking with me to the cross to give them to the only One who can help.
_____________________________
Maggie
Ask me about my book. It's now available online!
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 7:10:34 PM
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Doveflight
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Maggie, someone told me one time it was harder forhim to deal with a disability in his son than in anyone else, e.g. daughter, brother etc. Somehow it connected personally with himself, orhis paternity of the child or something. He also said it was harder to see his son weaker in some way than others, that he couldn't just bone up and improve himself. I read a biography of Roosevelt and his father seemed to have the same attitude. Fortunately Roosevelt didn't die of his asthma even with his forced activity by his father and it did appear to strenthen his lungs He lived a very physically active life. Anyway, maybe some of the guys here can give you some input on understanding where your dh is coming from. I am not excusing his not coming to the mat and helping to bolster the family and deal with this trauma just trying to give it context. You can not do this yourself. If your immediate family can not give you the support you need, then you must find it somewhere else. Someone needs to help care for your anxiety and concern for your son and also be a safety net for him if you are not available. He is safe to tell you his thoughts, who else would he go to?
_____________________________
If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I am made for another world. C.S. Lewis
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 7:58:42 PM
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magdaleine
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Thanks, Dove. I don't know if what you said fits dh but it's obvious that there's something going on that I don't see or understand. I think he's in denial. Maybe he's too scared to believe the reality of what's happening. I suspect it's not only a male thing but a cultural thing. He did not grow up in North America.
As for getting support for myself, I have you all; Linda and I chat via MSN throughout the day and that's a good support; I also send an e-mail out to a small group of people, some of whom live in Winnipeg. Three of those attend my church and one of them passes my e-mails along to the church's prayer chain. So I have a lot of prayer support and verbal/written encouragement.
Dh passed the news on to those HE trusts, one of whom is the neighbour across the backlane, a Christian who left a message for me yesterday about getting together for tea. I interupted this paragraph to call her back to take her up on that but got voice mail. But that will be helpful too.
We've been given contact information for people and organizations in the city that we can contact and it just occurred to me that I can call the social worker at the hospital. I will call now and leave a message. My pastor sent me an e-mail, asking if I would like to meet with him. I e-mailed back to say yes but he hasn't gotten back to me about that. I think talking to the social worker might help provide some solutions about what to do.
At this point I don't know who ds3 would go to with his thoughts if I wasn't available. I've made it clear to him that he can call me anytime regardless of where I am or what I'm doing. I keep my cell phone beside me. If I'm in a meeting, I will warn the people ahead of time that I will be taking any calls that come in. I did that when I visited my psychiatrist (another support I forgot to mention) and she understood. I'm doing a reading on Saturday at the writing association I just joined but I will let them know before hand that if I get a call, that call comes first even if it interrupts my reading.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 8:07:30 PM
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cherish405
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((((((((((((((((((((((MAGGS & FAMILY))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/2/2008 8:08:18 PM
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magdaleine
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Thanks, Trish
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 1:38:19 AM
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Pengie
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Maggie, the burden you're carrying is far too heavy for me. You are much stronger than I. I would have to surrender it all to Jesus to carry for me, or I would drown.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 6:26:02 AM
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Pengie
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Maggie.
Read the Psalms. Read them out loud. Do it now.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 7:10:06 AM
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magdaleine
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quote:
I would have to surrender it all to Jesus to carry for me, or I would drown.
He's the only way I've been getting through this at all, Pengie.
I think the seriousness of what's going on has finally hit dh. He couldn't sleep last night and now, this morning, he's lashing out in anger, attacking me as if all the pain he's feeling is my fault. Amazingly, I'm not taking it personally--or at least not as much as I might have in the past. I know it's simply a reaction to his pain.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 10:06:58 AM
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cherish405
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((((((((((((((((MAGGIE & FAMILY))))))))))))))))))))))
Such a difficult time for all of you. I know I would have sunk by now had it been me.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 11:06:02 AM
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magdaleine
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God is faithful, Trish, and he has given me encouragers such as all of you.
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 12:56:19 PM
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Bubbles5
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{{{Maggie}}}
I really don't know what to say, nor do I have any advice to share. I would'ent know what to do if this was my child.
All I can do is send up prayers for you and the family.
Please know you are on my mind alot.
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 4:40:55 PM
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magdaleine
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Thank you Ray and Barb.
I'm not doing well. Ds3 phoned me this morning to say he has a weekend pass again, from this afternoon till Monday morning when the doctor expects to discharge him. I thought, given what happened yesterday, they would hold onto him longer and not turn around and send him home the very next day. Guess I was wrong.
On the way home I told him that the friend who had initially called 911 was planning to visit him this weekend and, since ds3 will be home, he should call to let his friend know. A short bit later, still in the car, ds3 said he was thinking of going canoeing tomorrow afternoon with this friend. I questioned if this is a good idea. What's he or his friend going to do if he gets these thoughts to harm himself while they are out on a river or lake? And this friend does not need to have to deal with ds3 going into a psychotic episode again. I didn't say all that, just asked the question. He turned angry and snapped at me.
It was just too much. I can't do this! I have made an appointment with the social worker but that's not till Monday. There's a lot of time between now and then. At least I'm able to cry. I think it's the first time since all this began. Now I can't stop. Lord, help me!
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 5:24:48 PM
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MarshaBlake
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Mags, his faith is upbeat, healing and stuff. He could be questioning that, or questioning himself as a father.
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Carol King
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 6:34:48 PM
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magdaleine
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Yeah, Marsha, I think you're right. He admits to living on the surface, not going deep. I think he's afraid of what he'll find in the depths and your post helps me realize that a crisis like ours is probably threatening to push him from the shallows to the deep and he's terrified to go there. Thanks.
(Oh! And I had to stop and think for a minute, "How does Marsha know what his faith is like?" And then I remembered you've met him!)
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Maggie
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RE: Magdaleine's Alabaster Atrium - 10/3/2008 7:07:49 PM
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MarshaBlake
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I just hope and pray the two of you can communicate and find comfort in one another. I'm praying that your son gets some good help.
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You're as beautiful as you feel--
Carol King
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