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[Poll]
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Could Jesus have sinned?
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| Jesus was God so he was infallible |
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| Jesus was tempted so he could have sinned |
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| I am not sure, but am leaning toward Him being infallible |
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| I am not sure, but am leaning toward him being fallible |
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| I have no idea. |
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Total Votes : 56
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(last vote on : 10/2/2008 9:16:00 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 12:51:27 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
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quote:
I'm not sure if turning stones into bread since Jesus was near starving would necessarily be sin. Jesus was being tested since the Holy Spirit lead Jesus into the wilderness and to qualify to move forward Jesus had to resist the devil but i'm not sure if this particular act would be sinful.
If the act couldn't have been sinful, then what sort of temptation would it have been? That would be like tempting me to pick a green paper clip instead of a red one.
quote:
If it would be sinful then perhaps Jesus could'nt have actually done it but the real issue was whether he would give in and try to do it and be swayed by the devil. So the sin would be in the attempt to pull it off , just giving in to the devil.
Satan sure seemed to think Jesus could do it, and so did Jesus Himself. I think they would know better than us.
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 1:39:37 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MrFribbles
quote:
I'm not sure if turning stones into bread since Jesus was near starving would necessarily be sin. Jesus was being tested since the Holy Spirit lead Jesus into the wilderness and to qualify to move forward Jesus had to resist the devil but i'm not sure if this particular act would be sinful.
If the act couldn't have been sinful, then what sort of temptation would it have been? That would be like tempting me to pick a green paper clip instead of a red one.
quote:
If it would be sinful then perhaps Jesus could'nt have actually done it but the real issue was whether he would give in and try to do it and be swayed by the devil. So the sin would be in the attempt to pull it off , just giving in to the devil.
Satan sure seemed to think Jesus could do it, and so did Jesus Himself. I think they would know better than us.
Satan's temptation of Jesus in the desert was at once the exact opposite of how we are tempted, and yet exactly as we are tempted. Satan's temptation was to try and cause Jesus to function in His own strength, which is exactly what Satan does to us. The difference is that when we function in our own strength we are functioning as man. If Christ were to function in His own strength, He would have been functioning as God.
If Jesus Christ had at anytime chosen to not depend on God the Father, He would have no longer been functioning as a man. His earthly life would have been meaningless, and He would have no longer been qualified to die the death that He died.
We are tempted in the same way...to function in our own strength, apart from God, living independently of him. When we do, we are no longer functioning as the new creature we are in Christ. As Jesus said, "...apart from Me, you can do nothing."
Though fully God, Jesus Christ at no time ever functioned as anything more than a man. Man as He created man to be, indwelt by the Spirit of God and fully dependent upon God.
Peace.
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 3:21:38 PM
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SophiesLadder
Posts: 48
Joined: 9/29/2008
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
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URForgiven -
I'd like to pick up on your statement "Though fully God, Jesus Christ at no time ever functioned as anything more than a man. Man as He created man to be, indwelt by the Spirit of God and fully dependent upon God."
I believe that, and I believe that as the Spirit of God indwells us, we have the same potential (though our flesh sometimes keeps us from fully realizing it). My point is that I see Jesus as hearing the Spirit of God and acting on it. I don't see him engaging in a lot of biblical exegesis. I am being challenged elsewhere that God does not speak to a man in ANY form except through the Bible. What are your thoughts on this? Have I stumbled across a cult? I lived in the Bible Belt all my life and I have never encountered this.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 6:35:45 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SophiesLadder
URForgiven -
I'd like to pick up on your statement "Though fully God, Jesus Christ at no time ever functioned as anything more than a man. Man as He created man to be, indwelt by the Spirit of God and fully dependent upon God."
I believe that, and I believe that as the Spirit of God indwells us, we have the same potential (though our flesh sometimes keeps us from fully realizing it). My point is that I see Jesus as hearing the Spirit of God and acting on it. I don't see him engaging in a lot of biblical exegesis. I am being challenged elsewhere that God does not speak to a man in ANY form except through the Bible. What are your thoughts on this? Have I stumbled across a cult? I lived in the Bible Belt all my life and I have never encountered this.
God speaks in many ways. I do not think He is limited in how He chooses to communicate. I mean, if He can use a bush, I should think He could use just about anything to get His point across, eh?
He primarily speaks to us through His Word, but He is certainly not limited to that. All He has to say to us, everything He has deemed we need, is in the Bible...but the Bible is not the only place we will find Him speaking to us. It's just that He will never speak something to us that contradicts His revealed written Word. In my experience, He is usually showing me the meaning of some truth from His Word.
We should have even more potential than Christ did. Just as Jesus Christ walked upon this earth 2000 years ago in His earthly body, so today He walks upon this earth in the body of every believer. We are now, corporately, His body on earth. So the potential should be even greater.
I can't help but think though, that just One True Man, Spiritually alive, without the hindrance of our sin nature, still has more potential than all of us together. Perhaps when we get those new bodies we are promised? What do you think?
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 7:18:54 PM
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MrFribbles
Posts: 1717
Joined: 1/29/2007
From: Hawaii, but I've moved around since then
Status: offline
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URForgiven,
You've articulated your points very well, and while I disagree with your view, I also respect it. Wonderful work. : )
_____________________________
You're a door without a key,
A field without a fence.
You've made a holy fool of me,
And I've thanked you ever since.
- Aaron Weiss
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/2/2008 7:42:54 PM
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raivyne
Posts: 881
Joined: 8/28/2008
Status: offline
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I've given this a lot of thought and I'm going to have to say I do not think Jesus could have sinned.
Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. Through the Holy Spirit men can be clean and blameless. Jesus was born with that which He died to give to us. When the Spirit lives through someone his paths are straight. The Holy Spirit cannot occupy a vessel of inequity. The Holy Spirit was the whole of what Jesus was. Yes, He was born of a woman (a clean woman), but the Spirit was present within Him from conception. He didn't have to die to sin and be reborn to receive the Holy Spirit like we do. Because He was born of the Spirit (it is the essence of who He is) He could not deny It by commiting acts of inequity as we who are born into inequity can... We can reject the Spirit, He could not IMHO.
Just my $.02
_____________________________
God grades on the cross – not on a curve
Good – God = 0
In the dark? Follow the Son!
The Power of a Simple Gift! samaritanspurse.org
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/3/2008 9:14:46 AM
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SophiesLadder
Posts: 48
Joined: 9/29/2008
From: Atlanta, GA
Status: offline
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URForgiven -
I agree with every thing you say in your last post. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I don't think the church has lived up to it's potential YET, and that's to our shame. I think what you say is interesting - that perhaps the ultimate fulfillment of that prophecy will come only after the resurrection. I was of the mind that it would be good to see it now, so that we could be a light to the world.
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, too, on the issue of could Jesus sin? Perhaps another way of looking at this is, Could Jesus (potentially) fail to do God's will? (Failing to do God's will = sin) I center in on Gethsemane. Jesus was asking that the cup be removed. This was obviously a great struggle - he was experiencing something so intense that the blood poured like sweat. In the end, He conquered, saying Let your will be done. It's part of the pathos for me that he could have decided otherwise. "Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to the Father and he shall presently give me twelve legions of angels?"
God is Love. No greater love does a man have than he lay down his life for his friends. Therefore, God must be crucified or God is not God. At Gethsemane, God chooses to fulfill all that He is. God could choose otherwise - but then He won't be God. Free will is a godly attribute. He has free will, that's why He gave it to us - we are made in His image. The one who does good because he wills to is mightier than he who is obligated to do it.
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/3/2008 9:58:54 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1120
Joined: 3/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SophiesLadder
URForgiven -
I agree with every thing you say in your last post. Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but I don't think the church has lived up to it's potential YET, and that's to our shame. I think what you say is interesting - that perhaps the ultimate fulfillment of that prophecy will come only after the resurrection. I was of the mind that it would be good to see it now, so that we could be a light to the world.
I'll throw in my 2 cents worth, too, on the issue of could Jesus sin? Perhaps another way of looking at this is, Could Jesus (potentially) fail to do God's will? (Failing to do God's will = sin) I center in on Gethsemane. Jesus was asking that the cup be removed. This was obviously a great struggle - he was experiencing something so intense that the blood poured like sweat. In the end, He conquered, saying Let your will be done. It's part of the pathos for me that he could have decided otherwise. quote:
"Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to the Father and he shall presently give me twelve legions of angels?"
Yes. And I think that shows that He had choices, and that He was aware that He had choices. He could have done something differently. He could have exercised His right to ask His Father to send armies of angels to defend Him. He could have accepted the earthly kingship that the people were ready to forcefully bestow on Him after they had received their fill of food. He could have turned the stones into bread.
But then, He would not have been a man. And it was to be and to die as a true man, that He had come.
quote:
God is Love. No greater love does a man have than he lay down his life for his friends. Therefore, God must be crucified or God is not God. At Gethsemane, God chooses to fulfill all that He is. God could choose otherwise - but then He won't be God. Free will is a godly attribute. He has free will, that's why He gave it to us - we are made in His image. The one who does good because he wills to is mightier than he who is obligated to do it.
Yes, God is love. The depth of this sometimes overwhelms me. I will get just a glimpse of it, and I know that to go any further I could not stand it. This is one of those times. Bless you.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Could Jesus have sinned? - 10/4/2008 10:03:50 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3140
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
I am being challenged elsewhere that God does not speak to a man in ANY form except through the Bible. What are your thoughts on this? Have I stumbled across a cult? I lived in the Bible Belt all my life and I have never encountered this. While I wouldn't consider such nonsense to be a "cult", it certainly belittles the significant ways God shows His will to us in addition to His Word. Just for starters, God also speaks to us through prayer and fasting, through the godly counsel of fellow Believers, and by the various circumstances He allows to impact our daily lives.
quote:
I believe that, and I believe that as the Spirit of God indwells us, we have the same potential (though our flesh sometimes keeps us from fully realizing it). I thought that if we belonged to Christ, we had crucified the flesh - Galatians 5:24.
quote:
We should have even more potential than Christ did. Indeed, Jesus said this very thing in John 14:12!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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