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Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/11/2008 1:47:27 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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Why is it that trials and difficult times cause some to draw closer to the Lord, growing into an even stronger faith, while others facing the same difficulty get angery with God, doubt Him, and say they have lost they're faith?
As for me, some of my darkest times have lead to spirital growth. If satan is attacking, or bad things are happening and I have no control, the more I need Him. The closer I draw. And I think thats a lot of what the book of Job is about. Unless the seeds are planted on rocky soil with no root, I just don't understand people turning they're backs on God just because things don't go the way we want them to.
Thoughts?
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/11/2008 2:15:30 PM
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mvic
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People behave differently depending on the strength of their Faith. True, some can go through terrible times and suffering and their Faith grows and they are an example to others.
Other people soon crumble and get angry with God when things go wrong. But God can take our anger - after all, He took our anger when on the Cross did He not?
I suppose our role when we meet those people who crumble easily is to get closer to them and help strengthen their Faith. It is not always easy, and sometimes our efforts may even drive them further away from God; but we shouldn't be discouraged. Keep our distance if that helps the situation, and most of all pray for them silently. Their Faith may be weak right now, but our Faith will suffice to help them through their situation.
The best prayers are those said for other people. So when we meet the "crumlers" our job is to pray for them so that He may restore their Faith.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/11/2008 3:10:21 PM
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Liveloved
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quote:
I just don't understand people turning they're backs on God just because things don't go the way we want them to.
The same happened in Jesus' day. When He gave teaching about difficult things, people grumbled, said who can listen to this, and walked away. See the account in John 6:50-71.
But it is also the time when others' faith was solidified and shown for what it was. While many were walking away, Peter was saying, "You are the Holy One of God!"
It's all part of His work and beyond our 'understanding'. So He asks us to believe. 
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/11/2008 3:24:02 PM
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sparkleingsnow
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Thanks mvic and Liveloved.
Perhaps I am asking for more than I am meant to understand.
It just seems to me lost faith/no faith is such a lonely, scary, hopless place to be. I say this humbly.
< Message edited by sparkleingsnow -- 4/11/2008 3:35:50 PM >
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/11/2008 3:41:15 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 1891
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
Why is it that trials and difficult times cause some to draw closer to the Lord, growing into an even stronger faith, while others facing the same difficulty get angery with God, doubt Him, and say they have lost they're faith?
As for me, some of my darkest times have lead to spirital growth. If satan is attacking, or bad things are happening and I have no control, the more I need Him. The closer I draw. And I think thats a lot of what the book of Job is about. Unless the seeds are planted on rocky soil with no root, I just don't understand people turning they're backs on God just because things don't go the way we want them to.
Thoughts?
Our own sin, the flesh and the world are hostile towards a life of faith, and if God hasn't called a person to Himself they are just going to be... hostile. A spiritually dead person can't respond to God in love and joy because they are a slave to sin.
God used hard times to get me to quit being the DIYer and turn and cry out to Him instead. No credit to me - Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, according to the book of Hebrews - and I was able to finally respond in faith because He gave it to me.
I think the parable of the seeds is right on - God doesn't call all people to Himself, but some He does. Since some people don't come to faith until later in life, it's good to pray for those who turn their backs on God. He may save them yet. After all, most people here probably didn't come to faith until part of their lives was already past. I was 24; many people get saved even later. That's a lot of life spent ignoring or hating God at the first.
Thank God He didn't take our first "no" as final.
_____________________________
Want to know where a certain word or phrase in the Bible is found? www.biblegateway.com Yay!
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 12:31:30 AM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 203
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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I can't answer your first question because I didn't lose my faith during a period of tribulations. In fact, most of the ex-Christians I know didn't lose their faith in hard times either.
quote:
It just seems to me lost faith/no faith is such a lonely, scary, hopless place to be. I say this humbly.
I mean this in the nice and humblest way possible, but this assertion couldn't be any more incorrect, at least in my experience. Now that I'm not Christian, I'm finally happy and finally myself. Not in an I'm sinning all the time kind of way, because I don't sin any more than I did as a Christian. I'm not lonely because I have great relations with friends, family, pets, romantic partners and myself. I'm not scared of life or death, either. Life for me is even more hopeful than it was as a Christian for several reasons.
The first of these is my self-esteem, which was nonexistent when I was Christian. The second is my lack of belief in the afterlife. Can you explain why you think being non-Christian makes one lonely, scary and hopeless please? I'm here to understand, not to be reconverted.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 12:45:41 AM
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cobblestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RedcoatMello
I can't answer your first question because I didn't lose my faith during a period of tribulations. In fact, most of the ex-Christians I know didn't lose their faith in hard times either.
quote:
It just seems to me lost faith/no faith is such a lonely, scary, hopless place to be. I say this humbly.
I mean this in the nice and humblest way possible, but this assertion couldn't be any more incorrect, at least in my experience. Now that I'm not Christian, I'm finally happy and finally myself. Not in an I'm sinning all the time kind of way, because I don't sin any more than I did as a Christian. I'm not lonely because I have great relations with friends, family, pets, romantic partners and myself. I'm not scared of life or death, either. Life for me is even more hopeful than it was as a Christian for several reasons.
The first of these is my self-esteem, which was nonexistent when I was Christian. The second is my lack of belief in the afterlife. Can you explain why you think being non-Christian makes one lonely, scary and hopeless please? I'm here to understand, not to be reconverted.
No, if there was no resurection we would be the most miserable of people
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 12:58:39 AM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 203
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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Why?
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 1:06:36 AM
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cobblestone
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RedcoatMello
Why?
because the resurection is the outcome of faith, If you don't beleive that then what else can anyone say about the christian religion. Its then a secular conversation. Why should you not want the secular now. No reason if you think this life is all there is and if God is honoring that decision by giving you your reward now, then thats between you and Him
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 8:42:52 AM
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maddog4god
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The truth is that it rains on the just and the unjust - tragedy happens every day to both christians and non-christians. The truth is that those without God can prosper and be happy.
However
What will you do if something huge and troubling happens to you? Since you don't believe in God, you will be solely responsible for fixing it. If something bad happens to me (and trust me when I say I have had my share of troubles) I don't have to worry about how it will turn out as God already knows what he is going to do and I can trust solely on him and do whatever he tells me to do.
I used to be my own God - fixing everything - worrying about everything - it was exhausting.
Just this week I was at a meeting at school for my child. We all agreed that a neurologocial issue was present. They said they didn't know if they had any indepth psych. evaluations left. When the lady called in front of everyone at the meeting - I got a psych eval for five days later. Everyone at the table was stunned and I was not - why because my steps are ordered and God's got my back - no point in worrying about anything.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/12/2008 9:07:14 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3777
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quote:
Original: RedcoatMello
I can't answer your first question because I didn't lose my faith during a period of tribulations. In fact, most of the ex-Christians I know didn't lose their faith in hard times either.
quote:
It just seems to me lost faith/no faith is such a lonely, scary, hopless place to be. I say this humbly.
I mean this in the nice and humblest way possible, but this assertion couldn't be any more incorrect, at least in my experience. Now that I'm not Christian, I'm finally happy and finally myself. Not in an I'm sinning all the time kind of way, because I don't sin any more than I did as a Christian. I'm not lonely because I have great relations with friends, family, pets, romantic partners and myself. I'm not scared of life or death, either. Life for me is even more hopeful than it was as a Christian for several reasons.
The first of these is my self-esteem, which was nonexistent when I was Christian. The second is my lack of belief in the afterlife. Can you explain why you think being non-Christian makes one lonely, scary and hopeless please? I'm here to understand, not to be reconverted.
Hi RedcoatMello, I understand that not all people who loose faith didn't loose it during a period of tibulation, but some do. And for those that it wasn't during a time of trial, something happened. Somehow doubt was allowed to creep in.
To answer your question as best I can, for me it would be such a lonely, scary hopless place, because life would have no meaning. All that we strive for would mean nothing and would just vanish at our deaths. All our memories, everything we've learned, relationships, all that we are, gone. When trouble comes in this life, no one to lean on, to help, nothing good to learn from the bad, just meaningless bad things happening. No hope for the future, just live for today and then your gone. He's with me always, and it would be very lonely, scary, and hopless without Him.
I know the Lord is real, I see Him in action all the time. I've felt His presence, I've heard His voice, I've had prayers answered, I've felt His love. I can't understand anyone, having once tasted His love and presence being willing to give that up.
Can I ask you a couple of questions Redcoat?
1. What was happening in your life, or what did you watch, read, feel that caused you to loose your faith?
2. Although you consider yourself an ex-christian, did you every have a real relationship with Jesus? I mean, did you consider yourself a christian because you went to church, sang the songs, ect, or was there a time that you felt the Lord tugging at you, and you truely believed in Him, and asked Him to come into your heart?
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/14/2008 9:03:21 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3777
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RedcoatMello?
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Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/14/2008 1:15:05 PM
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DarrylK
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You have to remember that there are 4 types of soil, those that hear the word and satan comes immediately and takes away the word that was sown in their heart,those that are driven from the word by affliction and persecution, those that the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things choke the word out of them and those that bear fruit.
When trials come for the "hard soil" person they use their life experiences and strength
to deal with it, God and the word does not even come into play. When trials come to the "shallow soil" person they fall away because they expect a life that has no major problems or adversities after they believed and the "weed filled soil" person is to busy maintaining or attaining what the world offers(wealth,houses,material possessions, girlfriends,boyfriends,status and(fill in the blank) that the word is choked out.
Those that bear fruit have come to the knowledge that they are not their own, that they were bought at a price, that they are counted as sheep ready for the slaughter, that everything that they have is a gift of God to be used for His glory. For these "good soil" people they are aware that trials are part of the trip,in fact, I dare to say, question when life is uneventful for a long season in their lives.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/14/2008 5:54:13 PM
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GeorgiaNerd
Posts: 203
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From: UGA... RIP UGA VI
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quote:
1. What was happening in your life, or what did you watch, read, feel that caused you to loose your faith?
I was going to college, and began to learn things that didn't agree with the Bible for the first time in my life. Evolution and the age of the earth are two examples, though there are other ones. So, I decided I would research all of these things and see what made sense to me. I was definitely doubting at this point, but had not lost my faith yet. More and more the evidence for these non-Biblical things began to grow, and the evidence for the Biblical things began to diminish in my mind. For more clarity, I went to see my youth pastor. He then mentioned that my personal revelation should trump academic evidence. I had never heard of this, and had never experienced one. For a month, I prayed that God would give me my personal revelation, but none ever came. At that point, my faith was completely gone.
quote:
2. Although you consider yourself an ex-christian, did you every have a real relationship with Jesus? I mean, did you consider yourself a christian because you went to church, sang the songs, ect, or was there a time that you felt the Lord tugging at you, and you truely believed in Him, and asked Him to come into your heart?
Yes, and both. I was saved. I now liken it to having an imaginary friend. The Santa Clause analogy doesn't work for me because Santa only comes once a year, but an imaginary friend is there all the time until one stops believing in it.
quote:
To answer your question as best I can, for me it would be such a lonely, scary hopless place, because life would have no meaning. All that we strive for would mean nothing and would just vanish at our deaths. All our memories, everything we've learned, relationships, all that we are, gone. When trouble comes in this life, no one to lean on, to help, nothing good to learn from the bad, just meaningless bad things happening. No hope for the future, just live for today and then your gone. He's with me always, and it would be very lonely, scary, and hopless without Him.
Fair enough. To be honest, it is lonely, scary and/or hopeless for a brief time. There was also a time where I felt that life was meaningless. Then I began to question: does something have to last forever to have meaning? I don't think so. There have been many meaningful things in my life that are not in my life anymore.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 6:37:34 AM
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DarrylK
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Redcoatmello I have to tell you that that the Bible does not counteract what you have learned in school. In Genesis 1:1 God says He created the heavens and the earth and in Genesis 1:2 it says(in the original hebrew translation) that the earth became a waste and a desolation. Nobody knows the vast amount of time between these two verses( the Bible does not make it clear). It could be thousands or millions of years as
scientists say. If God wanted to create this earth using evolution as a means that does not destroy my faith, but when God created Adam he created a new creature different from everything else and breathed into him His spirit. And God told Adam and his wife to replenish the earth. Why did God say to replenish instead of just plenish? Because God was saying to repopulate the earth not just populate giving evidence that the earth was populated before Adam, until a great cataclysm struck this earth making it a waste and a desolation In fact Jeremiah in a vision saw the earth with cities on it where intelligent being met but there was no man on it. The cataclysm struck when satan and one-third of the angels rebelled against God and God cast them out of heaven. It was then that this cataclysm struck wiping out all life on this earth(dinosaurs& ect.). There is much evidence that the Bible is the true word of God. The study of the lost tribes is one. Also the study of the great pyramid of Giza,stonehenge, Gods message in the stars(constellation) and others. You haven't really lost your faith( or you wouldn't be here) you are just looking for more evidence to convince you of what you want to believe is true. If that is the case I can steer you toward a teacher that will lay out all the evidence you will ever want or need(he is on the internet 24 hours a day). Take care
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 6:55:42 AM
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conrack50
Posts: 804
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From: 200 N. Bryan Ave. Shawnee, Ok 74801
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
Thanks mvic and Liveloved.
Perhaps I am asking for more than I am meant to understand.
It just seems to me lost faith/no faith is such a lonely, scary, hopless place to be. I say this humbly.
sparkleingsnow,
It is and was a lonely, scary hopeless place to be.
I cannot recall how long it's been but I lost faith and was angry at God for a long time. I doubted the Bible and all it stood for.
Thankfully, I could see that God wants me as close to Him as I can get and I stay there now.
I have grown so much in my faith it seems like a dream to have lost faith. I know I don't want to go there ever again.
We have the choice, to serve or not.
As it says in the Bible(Joshua 24:15), But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
Connie Lou
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 7:07:18 AM
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makarizo
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when hope is gone, and we cannot see past tomorrow. We can fix our hope on God, or lose it, and when it is lost, our faith dwindles.
Rom 5:3 ...... we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
Rom 5:5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 10:01:52 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3777
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conrack50, thank you for sharing what it was like when you felt you had lost your faith. Jesus is always right there waiting for us isn't He. I'm with you. "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord."
doer, thank you for the scripture. I read it and reread it and the surounding scripture and what peace and joy it brings.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 10:48:53 AM
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delete123
Posts: 974
Joined: 6/1/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
Perhaps I am asking for more than I am meant to understand.
And that is the answer. Understanding. Many people lack understanding and should remind themselves of Proverbs 3:5 Lean not into your own understanding.
I know this first hand because at a point in my life I crossed this line.
My understanding verses God's. I couldn't see the "light!"
Which put me in a crossroad in my life of Unbelief or Believe.
I agree with Conrack, it is a very dark and cold hole to be in, but the Lord did not forsake me. For He was with me and it was a long and slow crawl out for me.
But it was my faith in Him that saved me. Believe me it was hard for me, because I had trust issues and for Him to ask if I trust Him, even though my mouth said yes, my actions said no!
It was a struggle, but I can say that through all this my faith grew.
I have a few favorite verses in the bible and it was these two that helped me the most.
Have faith like that of a mustard seed.....
..and God turns all things into good.....
CRH
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 11:28:28 AM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3777
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RedcoatMello, thank you for answering my questions.
I hope you don't mind my using some scripture in my reply. It seems to me there is two kinds of knowledge. Earthly knowledge, and spirital knowledge. An education is a good thing, but we have to be careful. satan is alive and well in our schools.
quote:
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Thats why we're told it's so important to put on the full armor of God. And he's good at it. he's had a long time to practice, and he's smart and strong. He mixes just enough truth with his lies to make them believeable and fools many.
And earthy knowledge, (man's knowledge) is failable. Thats why it keeps changing. Like years ago butter was better, then they said margarine is better for you, now we're back to butter is better for you. And eggs. Good for you, no they're not. Yes they are. But God's truths are always true and unchanging.
quote:
1 Corinthians 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
We can cure some big diseases, but we can't fine a cure for the common cold.
I would urge you to take DarrylK up on his offer and PM him. After all it can't hurt to hear what this teacher has to say can it? I don't clam to know everything, but I do know that a lot of what is presented as disproving God's word really doesn't.
quote:
For a month, I prayed that God would give me my personal revelation, but none ever came. At that point, my faith was completely gone.
You said you gave God a month to give you a personal revelation. A month isn't very long in God's time. What kind of personal revelation did you have in mind? You have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. He will whisper the truth to you if you will let him.
quote:
Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
quote:
Then I began to question: does something have to last forever to have meaning? I don't think so. There have been many meaningful things in my life that are not in my life anymore.
Yes, but you are still here to reminber them.
A lot of things are importen and has meaning in our lifes. Our families, things we enjoy or care about. But what I meant when i said things had no meaning, is looking to the long term. What does it matter what I think or what I do in this life if it's all gone at my death?
I know my post is very long, but theres just so much I would like to say to you, because I care about you through Jesus Christ. So lastly just let me say two things. Whenever you are ready to turn back to God, He will be waiting there with open, loving arms. And keep searching/learning, don't give up on God, He hasn't given up on you.
_____________________________
Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 3:45:04 PM
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ladyichigo
Posts: 559
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Honolulu
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sparkleingsnow
quote:
Why is it that trials and difficult times cause some to draw closer to the Lord, growing into an even stronger faith, while others facing the same difficulty get angery with God, doubt Him, and say they have lost they're faith?
I've quite often wondered this too, and I've been praying for those who have said they have "lost their faith". Sometimes I start wondering what was their faith based on? Looking back at my own Christian walk as a High School student/College Student, I had mainly based my faith on experiences. Having done that, I really did not have any foundation in the Bible. I trusted personal experiences over God's Word. I sought wisdom from people thinking that since they were "good" what they must teach, what they present must be good. All that came crashing down when I asked God to heal my dad of his manic depression. 3 days later after I prayed that prayer my dad killed himself. What happened? My prayer was NOT answered, at least the way I envisioned it. Soon after that, people that I've looked up to as mentors failed. None of the "experiences" I had in the past gave me no answers to why God didn't answer my prayer, why my dad killed himself, why I had to set aside my own grief to tend to my mother and support the family. I really think I could have just gave up on God then. I did get very angry that God took my dad....but in hind-sight, He didn't. Satan took my dad from us. God allowed it because through that travesty, He wanted me learn something vital in my faith in my God, my Savior, Jesus Christ. It was to TRUST HIM and to not lean on my own understanding. Why not lean on my own understanding? Why not lean on people's understanding of things? Because I don't fully understand they don't understand either. They think they do, but their understanding is so full of holes, and so fallible.
Experiences come and go. Experiences are temporary. Had I continued to base my faith in Christ on mainly experiences, my faith would be temporary as well, and it would have gone down the toilet. God is unchanging. His Word is unchanging. God is eternal. I would rather base my faith on God who is eternal and unchanging, and experience Him through that instead of the other way around.
_____________________________
Mari
I'm not cool enough to come up with a witty quote, but God is still good.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 4:37:13 PM
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DarrylK
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On my last post I meant to say "contradict" not "counteract". I'm sorry.
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 4:45:21 PM
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LCannon
Posts: 1250
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Lebanon, OR
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Little Faith (restless, struggling, wavering)
Great Faith (reaching, maturing faith)
Perfect Faith (obedient, resting faith)
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"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 4/15/2008 5:08:39 PM
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sparkleingsnow
Posts: 3777
Joined: 1/9/2007
Status: offline
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Everyone has posted such good and helpful posts on this thread, and some have shaired about some very painful times. And I just wanded to thank all of you.
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Bless the Lord, O my soul: and all that is
within me, bless his holy name.
Psalm 103:1
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RE: Growing Faith vs. Loosing Faith - 10/15/2008 7:48:57 AM
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nettiel
Posts: 184
Joined: 10/8/2008
Status: offline
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hi, and i agree, there are alot of people out there like that.i use to ask why myself, until i started really reading my bible,i found good christian programs.and kept alot of notes,god wants us to come to him we are not to carry our burdens alone,there to heavy for us,look around god is everywhereyou look, if you just look,nettiel
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