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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/1/2008 4:44:44 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5576
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
Lest anyone thinks that the "heresy hunters" like Hank uniquely have some grudge match against the Charismatic movement in particular, here is an article concerning the WOF movement by a Charismatic.
Stand to Reason
Larry, I clicked the link and got a Stand to Reason template with the message: "Page Not Found."
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Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
Thankfulness (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/1/2008 10:45:05 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2784
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AoibhinnGrainne
quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
me thinks you misread my post
quote:
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/2/2008 5:02:40 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1828
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Bride,
I can't get it to come up either, even when I edited my post. There must be some block to the site. Here's how to get to it.
Stand to Reason/Faith and Facts/
author, Gregory Koukl
Or Google Stand to Reason/ Word of Faith.
I'll try a link to its home page.
http://www.str.org/site/PageServer
Bride,
The home page works. When I got to Stand to Reason's home page, I filled in the site's search space with "Word of Faith." There was a list of articles within the site and the article I referenced was the first one in the list. It's not a detailed article. My only point is that Hank's problems with WOF does not stem from his having problems with the Charismatic movement in general. Mr. Koukl is Charismatic and he has a problem with WOF too and his site is clearly apologetic.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/2/2008 5:11:18 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/2/2008 5:24:24 PM
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bride48
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Actually, my biggest "disappointment" with Hanegraaf was that he is Charismatic, so I do agree that one can believe the gifts are still operational and yet distinquish between a difference in theology and outright false teaching. Hanegraaf's ministry is vital to the Church, and I'm very grateful for his website!
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
Thankfulness (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/4/2008 4:50:29 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1828
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Actually, my biggest "disappointment" with Hanegraaf was that he is Charismatic, so I do agree that one can believe the gifts are still operational and yet distinquish between a difference in theology and outright false teaching. Hanegraaf's ministry is vital to the Church, and I'm very grateful for his website!
I wasn't aware of that. His predecessor, Walter Martin, believed in tongues but did not practice it. I assume that Hank's view is similar. He has never advertised anything to suggest he practiced it. Not to my knowledge.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 11:52:12 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Don't touch God's 'anointed', right?! Some think the same way as those that they accuse.....
noticing the speck in their neighbors eye, while ignoring the plank in their own.... quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Prophetica,
Did you just 'Amen' something you just had disagreed with?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 12:20:09 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
Don't touch God's 'anointed', right?! Some think the same way as those that they accuse.....
noticing the speck in their neighbors eye, while ignoring the plank in their own.... quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Prophetica,
Did you just 'Amen' something you just had disagreed with?
You didn't answer my question, though I am not shocked by that.
As for the speck comment - what false teaching(s) does Hank teach? I would like to know what plank Hank is ignoring that is the same he talks about on his radio program.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:20:30 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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The lifestyle that Hank leads is prosperity 'gospel', which is what the WOF group teach. It is written: you must listen to them in all things whatsoever they teach regarding Doctrine, but do not do as some do. Mammon, or God? One must watch their life closely, and their Doctrine to come clean before God. One must put into practice true Doctrine which is to freely give to others what was received freely by Grace.
A person's way of life matters as to the substance of their faith becoming a reality in their lives, rather than just a bunch of words and hot air that is spouted off for money. Empty words, with no Power that are spoken on one's own to gain honor for self is not The Kingdom of God.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
Don't touch God's 'anointed', right?! Some think the same way as those that they accuse.....
noticing the speck in their neighbors eye, while ignoring the plank in their own.... quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Prophetica,
Did you just 'Amen' something you just had disagreed with?
You didn't answer my question, though I am not shocked by that.
As for the speck comment - what false teaching(s) does Hank teach? I would like to know what plank Hank is ignoring that is the same he talks about on his radio program.
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/9/2008 1:33:05 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:23:52 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: bride48
Actually, my biggest "disappointment" with Hanegraaf was that he is Charismatic, so I do agree that one can believe the gifts are still operational and yet distinquish between a difference in theology and outright false teaching. Hanegraaf's ministry is vital to the Church, and I'm very grateful for his website!
I wasn't aware of that. His predecessor, Walter Martin, believed in tongues but did not practice it. I assume that Hank's view is similar. He has never advertised anything to suggest he practiced it. Not to my knowledge.
I've heard him say on the air that he believes that the gift of tounges is extant today but that it is not NORMATIVE (as in he does not believe any and everyone is given the gift ). While I haven't heard him say on the air how he does or does not practice the gift, I would assume with the belief that he has stated that he does not.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:23:55 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The lifestyle that Hank leads is prosperity 'gospel', which is what the WOF group teach. It is written: you must listen to them in all things whatsoever they teach regarding Doctrine, but do not do as some do. Mammon, or God? One must watch their life closely, and their Doctrine to come clean before God.
So your problem with Hank is not in what he teaches but that he is an author that makes money by writings books, etc?
Are not all Christian authors and anyone that collects a salary from ministry also at fault?
I don't see you saying anything about televangelists salaries and undisclosed finances. Last time I check, CRI is a member of the ECFA( Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability). Are any of those ministries you support also a member of a financial accountability group?
How much money can a Christian (any Christian) make before it becomes a sin? I would like to see a chart of amounts, etc. I want to make sure I am not sinning because I happen to fall into a certain salary bracket.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:26:19 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The lifestyle that Hank leads is prosperity 'gospel', which is what the WOF group teach.
I'm curious to know how you would tend to define this? Do you believe that he has a house that is too big, too many assistants, what would make you say that he leads a lifestyle of "prosperity gospel" (and I do realize that you are making a distinction about his lifestyle not what he says)?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:32:37 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Jesus is The Way, The Truth, and The Life. A person's way of life is Christ and is obvious in the fruits that they bear. Frienship with the world is enmity with God, and the one who sows to gain honor and money for themselves is sowing to the fleshly desires for things on earth that choke The Word that was endowed to them and make it unfruitful and unfit to remain in the Garden of God, if left untended. If anyone loves the things of the world they cannot be Jesus' disciple. A house divided, cannot stand; for a double minded person does not adhere to sound Doctrinal precepts in their way of life. Eventually, they will hate the one and be devoted to the other.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
The lifestyle that Hank leads is prosperity 'gospel', which is what the WOF group teach.
I'm curious to know how you would tend to define this? Do you believe that he has a house that is too big, too many assistants, what would make you say that he leads a lifestyle of "prosperity gospel" (and I do realize that you are making a distinction about his lifestyle not what he says)?
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/9/2008 1:38:47 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:33:27 PM
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earthless
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Another classic non-answer.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:34:45 PM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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You were answered by Jesus' Testimony and Way of Life. You need, no other. Apparently, some do not put up with sound Doctrinal implementations in their own lives. Application is substance of faith. Sin is death. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. And seven worse unclean spirits enter the fray regarding the mixing of money and teachings of Sound Doctrine in religiousness rather than the reality of how one lives. The Apostle showed his faith was extant in substance by what he was doing. Not just being hearers of the Word, but doers of the Word. A citizen who does not love His Master will be punished more severly than a foreigner who does not know the Way. One will stand or fall to The Master, only, regardless of what others think. For what is honored with people is disliked by God strongly. (detestable)
Some dress the graves of the prophets from of old with whitewashed walls put up around them to appear as though they are not dead inside. Peddling the Word of God for profit brings The Way into disrepute with outsiders. Their true love is obvious to everyone.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Another classic non-answer.
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/9/2008 1:53:39 PM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:49:53 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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You did not answer some very basic and honest questions about your objection to just Hank Hanegraaff.
So your problem with Hank is not in what he teaches but that he is an author that makes money by writings books, etc?
Are not all Christian authors and anyone that collects a salary from ministry also at fault?
I don't see you saying anything about televangelists salaries and undisclosed finances. Last time I check, CRI is a member of the ECFA( Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability). Are any of those ministries you support also a member of a financial accountability group?
How much money can a Christian (any Christian) make before it becomes a sin? I would like to see a chart of amounts, etc. I want to make sure I am not sinning because I happen to fall into a certain salary bracket.
Know what's the real tell-tale sign here that anyone with a basic reading comprehension level can see? They can see right through the glaring fact that your objections are biased. Never have you ever said a negative word against the televangelists and such that CRI does perspectives on. Yet they fall deeper into the bracket, the objection, you're here touting.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 1:57:50 PM
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blue1914
Posts: 407
Joined: 6/21/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
You were answered by Jesus' Testimony and Way of Life. You need, no other. Apparently, some do not put up with sound Doctrinal implementations in their own lives. Application is substance of faith. Sin is death. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. And seven worse unclean spirits enter the fray regarding the mixing of money and teachings of Sound Doctrine in religiousness rather than the reality of how one lives. The Apostle showed his faith was extant in substance by what he was doing. Not just being hearers of the Word, but doers of the Word. A citizen who does not love His Master will be punished more severly than a foreigner who does not know the Way. One will stand or fall to The Master, only, regardless of what others think. For what is honored with people is disliked by God strongly. (detestable)
Some dress the graves of the prophets from of old with whitewashed walls put up around them to appear as though they are not dead inside. Peddling the Word of God for profit brings The Way into disrepute with outsiders. Their true love is obvious to everyone.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Another classic non-answer.
OK, I guess I'll ask it a different way-how exactly do you feel that Hank Hanagraaf is peddling the Word of God for profit? Do you believe the Word of God when it says that a workman is worthy of his wages? Do you feel that Paul was correct when he stated that for the sake of the gospel he should be supported financially by the saints?
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 5:27:01 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 1828
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: blue1914
I've heard him say on the air that he believes that the gift of tounges is extant today but that it is not NORMATIVE (as in he does not believe any and everyone is given the gift ). While I haven't heard him say on the air how he does or does not practice the gift, I would assume with the belief that he has stated that he does not.
That is along the lines of what I have heard him say. I don't know that he doesn't practice tongues and other stuff, only that he doesn't condemn the practice of the Charismatic gifts per se. And ministers who are otherwise biblically sound or orthodox are not targets of his merely for practicing and believing in tongues.
When bride48 called him Charismatic, I suppose that is what she meant. I don't know.
_____________________________
Larry
Sure we're under the law, everybody knows that!
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear. (Heb 10:13)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/9/2008 6:10:03 PM
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bride48
Posts: 5576
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Near Boston
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Although I'm no longer a Charismatic, I attended a Charismatic church for 30 years. I was taught that Charismatics believe that the power gifts are still operational, but that God distributes those gifts as He sees fit. Therefore, some people don't speak in tounges; others do. I thought Hanegraaf agreed with that point of view, which is why I said he's charismatic. Forgive me if I misspoke.
_____________________________
Joyfully,
DebbieLynne
Thankfulness (my latest blog entry)
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/10/2008 10:09:14 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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I have responded to your objection every time. I do not see any difference between what you are complaining about as WOF and what the lifestyles of some of those 'teachers' that you hold as so 'annointed' are living; except that WOF teachers live in accordance with what they are teaching as 'properity' doctrine. Their lifestyle is true to their teachings. Hank is such the suffering servant.....you think! Do as Hank says, not as he does.
This thread is about Hank.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
You did not answer some very basic and honest questions about your objection to just Hank Hanegraaff.
So your problem with Hank is not in what he teaches but that he is an author that makes money by writings books, etc?
Are not all Christian authors and anyone that collects a salary from ministry also at fault?
I don't see you saying anything about televangelists salaries and undisclosed finances. Last time I check, CRI is a member of the ECFA( Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability). Are any of those ministries you support also a member of a financial accountability group?
How much money can a Christian (any Christian) make before it becomes a sin? I would like to see a chart of amounts, etc. I want to make sure I am not sinning because I happen to fall into a certain salary bracket.
Know what's the real tell-tale sign here that anyone with a basic reading comprehension level can see? They can see right through the glaring fact that your objections are biased. Never have you ever said a negative word against the televangelists and such that CRI does perspectives on. Yet they fall deeper into the bracket, the objection, you're here touting.
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/10/2008 10:25:00 AM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/10/2008 11:34:51 AM
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map4
Posts: 80
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: .....
I have responded to your objection every time. I do not see any difference between what you are complaining about as WOF and what the lifestyles of some of those 'teachers' that you hold as so 'annointed' are living; except that WOF teachers live in accordance with what they are teaching as 'properity' doctrine. Their lifestyle is true to their teachings. Hank is such the suffering servant.....you think! Do as Hank says, not as he does.
This thread is about Hank.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
You did not answer some very basic and honest questions about your objection to just Hank Hanegraaff.
So your problem with Hank is not in what he teaches but that he is an author that makes money by writings books, etc?
Are not all Christian authors and anyone that collects a salary from ministry also at fault?
I don't see you saying anything about televangelists salaries and undisclosed finances. Last time I check, CRI is a member of the ECFA( Evangelical Council on Financial Accountability). Are any of those ministries you support also a member of a financial accountability group?
How much money can a Christian (any Christian) make before it becomes a sin? I would like to see a chart of amounts, etc. I want to make sure I am not sinning because I happen to fall into a certain salary bracket.
Know what's the real tell-tale sign here that anyone with a basic reading comprehension level can see? They can see right through the glaring fact that your objections are biased. Never have you ever said a negative word against the televangelists and such that CRI does perspectives on. Yet they fall deeper into the bracket, the objection, you're here touting.
Hello ....., you know they will just reason away Hank's right to have the money he does and live in an affluent gated community (I'm assuming he still lives there). We are told to "google" this person, watch this youtube video, click on this link, etc. to find all the "bad things" about others. All one has to do is "google" Hank and find that things are not as rosy with him as some would like us to think. But I guess it's okay as long as he attacks those you are against.
Double standards run rampant.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/10/2008 7:59:37 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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No double standard here. Why? Because no Hank "supporter" has told another to not speak about him, that talking about him is akin to touching God's anointed, or that you will die and go to hell because of it.
Major difference between what DOTS is is trying to connect.
No one here is idolizing Hank or putting him up as some special servant of God like those that do with Benny Hinn and the rest.
There is also another difference in this topic - Hank makes a good living off of his books, etc.. yes.
Others makes their good living by using the Bible to manipulate people into giving money, telling them that doing so will cause God to magically bless them, etc.
We can definitely be against anyone making a lot of money, sure. But my question to DOTS and you too would be what is the amount that draws the line for you two?
Is it $50K a year? Is it $100K a year?
How much money can a Christian, according to you, make off of his work (and not off of pimping the Bible for $$$) before they are considered bad by you two?
I want to know so I can make sure I don't cross that money standard of yours.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/10/2008 9:07:03 PM
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map4
Posts: 80
Status: offline
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The point is that you all want people speaking out against certain preachers/teachers because of their doctrine, how much money they make, how they make it, and what they do with it.
You are free to do that.
After "googling" Hank, I found that there are also issues with his finances among other things also.
But everyone here seems to think that is "okay". I haven't seen anyone here take issue with Hank's problems like you all insist we do with others. In fact, most are defending him.
Why?
Their is nothing wrong with making money off of books, etc. I don't care how much a person makes. But, again, some people have issues with how Hank has used his money and how he got some of it. He talks against the "prosperity doctrine" and the misuse of their money. He makes money doing it. But some have accused him of misusing ministry money also. And no one on here is saying anything about it. He seems to be excused.
Again, why?
Just because he makes the money in a different way than the prosperity teachers? Or is it because he speaks out against them therefore he is one of your own?
Why is he not held to the same standard that you hold others to?
And for the record, I am not defending Benny Hinn or anyone else.
I am just trying to show that not everyone practices what they preach.
Therein lies the double standard I made reference to and I think that is one of the points ..... is trying to make. But he can speak for himself.
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/10/2008 11:11:12 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Everyone is held to the same standard - the Bible. If you notice, 99% of all issues taken with those named on these boards is with their teachings/failed prophecies/practices.
The problem for ....... with Hank is that he makes money off his books and radio program. No problem.
But I want to know what is the limit for a Christian to make per year before he/she is wrong in DOTS (and others) eyes.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/11/2008 3:16:27 AM
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cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
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Everyone is held to the standard of Jesus Christ. To The Master a servant will stand or fall. That is why it is written: holy 'to The Lord' on the high priests hat. Because it is by Grace.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
practices.
Hank is that he makes money off his books and radio program. No problem.
Love money, or love God..... God will supply all that you need and more if you seek the Kingdom of God, first in Life. To me, there is no difference between the WOF that teach unfavorable doctrine and those that live a lifestyle that way. In fact, it is a greater evil for those that teach that it is wrong to live that way. They say that they know Me, but their actions deny Me. These people draw near to Me with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Me.
< Message edited by ..... -- 5/11/2008 3:27:10 AM >
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RE: Hank Hanegraaf of The Christian Research Institute. - 5/11/2008 1:46:21 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6198
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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We can definitely be against anyone making a lot of money, sure. But my question to DOTS and you too would be what is the amount that draws the line for you two?
Is it $50K a year? Is it $100K a year?
How much money can a Christian, according to you, make off of his work (and not off of pimping the Bible for $$$) before they are considered bad by you two?
I want to know so I can make sure I don't cross that money standard of yours.
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