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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:19:49 PM
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uponeagleswings
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Even Acutane (I think that's the one) can cause severe birth defects. I think they prescribe it for acne. The mom of one of my kiddos is on it, and the dr made it very clear to her that she could NOT get pregnant while taking it.
I don't think its that people don't KNOW (now, at least) that these drugs can cause real problems- I think people choose to say "Oh, it won't happen to me, I won't get pregnant."
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:21:35 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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Accutane, and I *think* the antibiotic that's commonly used for Acne treatment... the name is escaping me right now, can both cause severe birth defects.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:23:10 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10270
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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Tetracycline, Ryanne?
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He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:24:41 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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That's it!
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:25:25 PM
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solo_soprano22
Posts: 2478
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Is accutane the one with vitamin A? If it is, that's why it causes birth defects like that. My mom asked me about it the other day... for some reason. I have no clue why she was wondering.
The thalidomide today is for cancers (and the specific cancers in AIDS), inflammation and sedation.... and leprosy. I think they're investigating more, and there might be more, but those are just the ones I remember.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:28:28 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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Well, for the things it's being used for I can't imagine there is a large body of women who are ttc.
Accutane, and any of the Retinol products should be avoided when your ttc or not using reliable birth control.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 1:57:52 PM
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OneOfHisJewels
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quote:
Accutane, and any of the Retinol products should be avoided when your ttc or not using reliable birth control.
Yeah, I was on both of those for a while, and I wasn't even allowed to give blood, so it would be really dumb to take the risk of being pregnant while on them.
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"We basically use what I have seen referred to as "get off your butt" parenting. It employs more interaction, more redirection, more prevention, and usually less spanking."
-Mrs. Wifey
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 2:21:12 PM
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solo_soprano22
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
Well, for the things it's being used for I can't imagine there is a large body of women who are ttc.
Accutane, and any of the Retinol products should be avoided when your ttc or not using reliable birth control.
Some of the treatable disorders are milder (I don't know many who are pregnant who have cancer, but a woman with something milder that's being treated may get pregnant). Although I know cancer and AIDS victims who have had babies while sick, they're aren't many around that do so. I know plenty who have rheumatoid inflammation or a non-life threatening illness that causes pain, who have had babies that were unplanned. I think they were on their respective meds, but they didn't mess up anything (and they stopped taking them when they learned they were expecting). The serious illnesses don't concern me about the teratogenic effects-- they're highly unlikely to conceive (although it's possible); the treatment of the non-serious diseases are the ones that have potential for becoming a problem (as in, the ones that make life miserable but not going to kill the person).
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 2:25:11 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
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quote:
he treatment of the non-serious diseases are the ones that have potential for becoming a problem (as in, the ones that make life miserable but not going to kill the person).
I agree. But unfortunately it will probably take another "series" of Thalidomide babies before it gets yanked again.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 3:35:17 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1256
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From: Great Plains, Kansas
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quote:
If you really want to get me riled up, let's talk about child support and how it is meant to strangle the life out of a man while OFTEN TIMES (but not in all cases, of course) the woman is allowed to get by with not having the father see the child, not having to have a job, getting free legal aid, free health care for her and the baby and free schooling.
All the while the man gets ripped to shreds for "making a baby" --- um, SHE DID, TOO! Where is his free health care, schooling so he can get a better job? GOD HELP THE MAN who has a child in the child support system and then has the "nerve" to go get married again and have a child(ren) with his wife. Can you THINK of a more vile man that that? (read sarcasm there)
I realize this is late, but this remark is really out of line. Child support is generally a JOKE! Talk to the mothers who receive it & you'll realize how little it really is (try $100 a month for one child in some places) and that's only if the man's wages are garnished...which means the state has to track him down...or you get zilch. That's been my personal experience.
I was on the "other side" of this so to speak when I was married to my son's father (he had a daughter from a previous relationship that he was paying child support on). Yes, the amount of $100 a month is a lot in someone's budget...you can buy quite a few groceries with that, maybe even pay a bill or two. But to the mother or guardian receiving it....it goes by in the drop of a hat.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 4:15:53 PM
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TwinCityGirl
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Daughter of Faith:
I'm sorry you feel my remarks are out of line. I could not disagree with you more.
I am sorry about your situation and for all the mothers out there who have children with deadbeat dads. That is not what I am talking about.
My brother MAYBE makes $14,000 a year. MAYBE. He has major health issues from an accident when he was 3 years old. Health issues that have tried to and will someday likely kill him. Health issues that leave him getting his heart restarted once or twice every few years. Health issues that leave him uninsurable.
He will not stop working. We have tried to ask him to stop working so he can go on disability but he is a man who believes in working, and frankly, working keeps his mind busy.
Not a day goes by that my brother does not despair over his WIFE taking their SON and leaving him. She was abusive physically to my brother, I guess he didn't bring in enough money for her liking and off she went. The state does NOT have any obligation to tell my brother where she even LIVES with the boy, so he pays $400 in child support (not including arrears, which there are some) so you add that up and subtract it from what he makes in a year --- ummmm, WHAT IS HE SUPPOSED TO LIVE ON?
You can't get child support from a dead man.
I'm really truly sorry for those incidents where a man just walked away from all of it. My brother is not one of those men (nor is my other brother who pays child support). My brother ACHES for his child. I was just on the phone with him at 1:00 the other morning as he was CRYING because he hasn't seen his son in 7 years. SEVEN YEARS.
They've now taken his driver's license because he is behind on child support/arrears. How is he supposed to get to work, Daughter of Faith? How is he supposed to get to work to pay for the child support/arrears?
In the meantime, when my ex-SIL left my brother, she went on aid and voila -- oh, she was offered some "retraining" so she could get some schooling. She had an internship. She had free health insurance for herself AND the little boy. My brother? Do you want to know who pays for my brother's medical bills and required-for-life medicines? His family. As best we can afford to we pay to keep him alive. Do you know just ONE of his medicines costs over $600/month? Hmmmm..child support at $400, plus arrears, plus medicine, plus anything else.
Do you get why it bothers me? Do you see the futility?
Go ahead and be mad as you want to be about what I wrote and about my situation. You have never had to take a 1 a.m. phone call from a crying adult man who isn't even a deadbeat but the state can simply NOT TELL YOU where the ex lives with the child, so the child goes without daddy BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT MY SIL WANTS. My brother has never done one thing wrong to my ex-SIL or his son. Not one thing.
This is a punishment right on par with Hell, Daughter of Faith. I am sorry if your ex-husband was a deadbeat dad and $100 barely helped at all. I really am. But I am going to continue to watch, year after year, until my brother's illness takes his life and HE DID NOT GET TO SEE HIS SON.
You better believe I am ticked beyond belief. If he didn't have to pay all that in child support and arrears then guess what? He'd have some money for things like LIFE GIVING MEDICINE AND FOOD.
I'm sorry if I sound mad. I'm not mad AT YOU, but I am sick and sick and SICK of the government clumping all non-custodial dads into the same bucket and calling them trash. My brother will die from his ailment with a now 10-year-old boy out there who never knew him, and my brother will have spent every single day until the day he dies pining away for that little one.
You better believe I am disappointed to say the least, but please don't see my remarks as out of line. My brother has been raked over the coals by the court system. I would tell you if he deserved it, if he were a deadbeat. I'd be the first one here saying so. That is not the case and what has been done to my brother by his ex-wife AND the court system is disgusting and cruel.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 5:24:53 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10270
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From: Cow country, Upstate NY
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quote:
You can't get child support from a dead man.
No, but she would get Social Security. Nick's mother has told us on more than one occasion that Brian is worth more to her dead.  My husband (and the rest of the family!) has been consistently involved in Nick's life since the day the judge ordered her to let us (July 24, 2002...yes, I remember the exact date we first met him...he was 17 months old). He has also never been in arrears for child support, even when HE was out of work and it had to come out of MY paycheck.
quote:
I am sick and sick and SICK of the government clumping all non-custodial dads into the same bucket and calling them trash.
You know I'm right there with you, Jeanie.  And Brian HAS joint custody and frequent visitation! But his treatment by the school, by social services...is appalling. We have to return a child every week to a place where it is known by authorities that he is watching porn, pot is being smoked with him right there, and enduring who knows what, and there is nothing we can do because "a child belongs with his mother". Disgusting. 
The system is a mess. At least moms have the courts on their side. Be thankful for that, if you are in a situation with a crummy, deadbeat dad. But at the same time, remember that not all men who don't have their kids with them fall into that category. Some cry over their children and the system leaves them with no power, no money, and no/little access to their kids.
Jeanie, I am praying for your brother. Lord, please move in this!
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 5:31:03 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1112
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
quote:
You can't get child support from a dead man.
No, but she would get Social Security. Nick's mother has told us on more than one occasion that Brian is worth more to her dead.
I'm sorry, Donna, I can't even read the rest of your post. I am just in tears crying. I'm sorry for the women who get the shaft but I just can't stand it. I can't stand it for THE GOOD MEN who are doing their best.
I'm sorry. It hurts all the way around but nearly everyone treats these good men as trash. I can't stand it.
Thanks, Erin.
I'm too sensitive maybe today for this, given my brother's current health status and the phone call the other night from him (via my mom who was also with him trying to help him get through it). I am probably just too touchy on this right now given what we are dealing with.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 6:49:08 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1256
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From: Great Plains, Kansas
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I'll take what you are saying as that you are being too touchy about the subject.
I happen to INFORM my ex about every single move I make. WHY? Because the courts require it. Is it cheap to send him a $10 letter every time I move? No, not really, but that is what is required by the court order...
And he doesn't even pay child support. So we'll not go there today.
If your brother's situation is what it is...why is he not in court fighting for custody? Just curious...he'd at least get visitation then.
*sigh*
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 6:57:39 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5093
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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Not all courts require that the father be notified...
I have a friend whose hubby is definitely getting the shaft, he is paying, combined about $1500 a month in child and wife support. He paid for his ex to get her degree, and even though she's been living with her current boyfriend for several years he still is obligate to pay alimony. His current wife(my friend) has to work to pay bills because of what he is paying out.
There are definitely some deadbeats, but it's also a broken system that is screwing over an awful lot of good men.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 7:09:19 PM
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daughter_of_faith
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It's just a tad ridiculous that I have to notify him of any moves, while he doesn't have to let me know (he's supposed to notify the court system for child support purposes, but fails to do so). He can do whatever...and has....
Just saying, it's a 2 way street in that there are a lot of women who royally get the shaft and are expected to bend over backwards at every turn. Does my son's biological father do that? No, not even close...
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 7:35:49 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1112
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quote:
ORIGINAL: daughter_of_faith
I happen to INFORM my ex about every single move I make. WHY? Because the courts require it. Is it cheap to send him a $10 letter every time I move? No, not really, but that is what is required by the court order...
And he doesn't even pay child support. So we'll not go there today.
If your brother's situation is what it is...why is he not in court fighting for custody? Just curious...he'd at least get visitation then.
*sigh*
My brother is going back to court. The last time he was there the only thing they wanted to discuss was his driver's license and him paying fees. I have a friend who works as a social worker in a different county (not doing child support work) who describes those working with child support as "inhuman".
Daughter of faith, you sound like someone who has a right to be frustrated about her situation. I'm sure thousands and tens of thousands of women join you in those frustrations. Yes, you are doing the right thing by notifying him at your own expense when you move. He doesn't reciprocate. I'm sure that drives you nuts, and that is very wrong of him and other men who are deadbeats or partial deadbeats.
But surely you're not saying that IN ALL CASES the best parent is ALWAYS the mother? Surely you can see that in Donna's case that Brian is the better parent? Or in the case Erin cited?
I am a very firm believer in case-by-case situations rather than one-blanket-rule. What about those women like Ryanne's friend who it's not even her child but she has to chip in so they can make ends meet?
I'm sure NOBODY HERE is saying all women who receive child support (in small or large amounts) are living high on the hog and flushing the money down the toilet they so much don't need it.
I just think the other side of it is often ignored and the men are treated as if all they do is run around and breed all over the place and make sure not to tell their last names. My brother has ONE CHILD, and he was married over a year when that child was born. He will never have another child, and frankly, he can't even afford to. If I introduced you to my brother and his ex-wife you WOULD see that my brother is the better parent (flawed, but better than her).
I haven't been able to bring myself to pray this but sometimes I *wish* that we would find out the child isn't my brother's and it would all be over with.
I really don't think it's a blanket "If you're the mom you ARE the better custodial parent" type of world. I know there are the deadbeat dads out there by the thousands and for those men I have no defense. I speak of the good men. Honestly I sometimes don't know other than Christ why my brother continues to get up and face each day every day.
Really, how DO they expect these people to get to work if they take their driver's licenses away? Or should we mandate it that all men paying from child support have to have jobs where they work from home? If you look at it closely, the system doesn't REALLY care so much about the child if they do not care that custodial parents keep the non-custodial parents from seeing the child(ren), and they literally do not care if a non-custodial parent has a way to get around town to a job, and they literally do not care if that parent eats or starves, lives or dies. You get the feeling the child support people would be relieved if the non-custodial parent just died so they could clear their desk of one more caseload.
It is a frustrating and unfair system. I'm sure if I had a sister who was getting the shaft from an ex I would sure be here fighting for her, too, but I only know it from my two brothers' sides and I know these men, I will vouch for these men, and I know what has been done to them. And it's wrong. It is just WRONG.
I do feel so good that some day my ex-SIL will stand before the Lord and explain this to Him. Yep, I have things to answer for and I will face the Lord, too, but I cannot imagine trying to hem and haw and explain what my ex-SIL has done not just to him but to our whole family. Taking someone's child from them -- you can't put a dollar sign on that.
Jeanie
< Message edited by TwinCityGirl -- 7/11/2008 7:42:22 PM >
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 7:45:04 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 1112
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mrs.Wifey
Not all courts require that the father be notified...
My ex-SIL pulled some swifty moves and sent some of her papers to an old address KNOWING my brother no longer lived there and KNOWING that the papers would get returned to her because the forwarding address had expired.
Then she was able to turn around and say "I don't know where he is." Nice, huh?
Even though many of his siblings still lived in the exact same places with the same phone numbers and the same LAST NAME. All she had to do was crack a phone book OR drive to one of our addresses because she had been to our homes when she was married to our brother.
Nice shifty little tricks of evil, I tell you. Nicely played, ex-SIL, nicely played.
Jeanie
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 8:10:38 PM
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daughter_of_faith
Posts: 1256
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From: Great Plains, Kansas
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Previously, I've sent stuff to a last known address and had it returned because he hadn't updated his address with me. That's why this last time...I contacted him to find out what the correct address was. What good does it do to send out notification of a move if he's moved without letting me know?
Oh, and contact with him is always difficult. He's always playing the "Why should I tell you?" game. Um, hello, we have a child together & legally I am obligated to send notification in writing by registered (certified) restricted return receipt to your last known address. (Even if he doesn't care and is not involved in our child's life...by his own choice.)
Low and behold...I had the wrong address this time (we've moving at the end of the month). But he's supposedly been there for 6 months. He didn't acknowledge that to me & we've had communication during that time. When he got the letter about where we are moving to, "Why are you moving there?" It's not really any of his business. He has been informed of the move...that's all that needed to be done, IMO.
I'm not saying it's always the mother who is the better parent. In the case of my (former) step-daughter....she would have been MUCH better off with my (now) ex-husband and I. Her mother didn't care. So yeah, I know it goes both ways.
Did the courts believe us or listen to us? No...even though the child (my step-daughter) was removed from her mother's home. She was NOT placed with her dad (my ex-husband)...even though the state law says that the child is SUPPOSED to go to the other biological parent if one parent is unable to take care of them. The child went to her grandparents (her mother's adopted parents). Not a much better scenario, but at least she was fed, bathed, clothed, etc. That lasted for a year before the "system" decided the mother had improved enough to have more extended visits, etc. Within 6 mos., she was back with the grandparents because the mother didn't want to take care of her anymore or couldn't...whichever you want to call it.
By this time, the ex and I are in the middle of our divorce. Between this and other situations (infidelity and some other things I won't mention)....yeah, our marriage was over. Had said stepdaughter came to live with us, I would have been the one providing her care, etc. as my ex wouldn't have done so. But that's another story....another day.
Said child has now been adopted by her grandparents (the mother died last year) and my ex signed over his rights.
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 9:12:54 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5093
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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This whole thing is probably why we weren't meant to get divorced....
A woman(who I don't know in person but have met) in my pregnancy buddy group(we've been "together" for over 18 months) has a child with a man who doesn't want to pay child support, doesn't want visitation, demanded a paternity test, and has since blocked her ability to leave the state of California. We aren't talking about some man who has no income, he's a senior pilot for United! Fortunately for her she also has a fantastic income, although it's still not enough when you factor in her need for a nanny while she works.
There are horror stories on all sides of the fence....
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/11/2008 9:44:11 PM
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PrincessDonna
Posts: 10270
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Cow country, Upstate NY
Status: online
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quote:
demanded a paternity test
IMO, it's actually a smart thing to demand a paternity test if you weren't married to the person, and sometimes even if you were. You can bet we wanted that test before we connected with Nick at all, especially since we didn't even know he existed until he was over a year old and the county threatened to take away his mother's welfare benefits if she didn't tell who the father was. Sometimes, honestly, I wish she had told them she didn't know...made up some story about being raped or something. 
I've known plenty of deadbeat dads too. My brother would be one if my parents didn't make sure to keep on top of his junk. So...technically, he is a deadbeat dad, but my parents make sure she is taken care of and that we all get to see her. What makes me ill is that drug-abusing, non-child-support-paying, inconsistent visiting (if at all!) dads get lumped in with MY husband. The court doesn't truly see the difference and many individuals don't either.
Yes, my husband sinned. Yes, he fathered a child he didn't have any business fathering. But he is a good dad and has proven that over time. Yet, he is slated to be continually punished for at least the next 11 years, all the while trying to keep his head above water AND prove the stereotypes wrong.
Yeah, Jeanie...I get it. It is heartbreaking and depressing to be on this end of things.
_____________________________
He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
~Psalm 91:4~
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RE: Kicka, part 3 - 7/12/2008 1:17:49 PM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 5093
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From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
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I hadn't heard any of that Jess, although I can tell you as someone who was entirely "raised" on the NIV, it was always pretty clear to me that homosexuality is an abomination.
Considering THIS is happening, I don't think most homosexuals view any Bible as very "friendly".
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