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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2008 4:30:34 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 476
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
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Wesp,
I am sorry if my reasoning seems a bit confusing. I, myself, noticed, while I was writing, that I found myself delving into areas I didn't fully understand why or how I was going in. I quess I find discussions about moral issues, such as homosexuality, a bit confusing because some people tend to stress the act over all other possible aspects. Aspects that really need to be taken into account if one hopes to make some inroads into the lives of those caught up in such issues.
Yes, the Bible says homosexuality is sinful, but is the Biblle just talking about the act or how one sees himself in relation to himself; how one sees himself in relation to members of the opposite sex, or the same sex; or in relation to his relationship with God?
Through my own struggle with gender, identity, intimacy, relationship, and sexual matters, and research into such matters I have come to the conclusion that because of the nature of sin in the world each of us have been saddled with our own "thorns in the flesh" that we have to deal with until we are able to resolve it in some manner, hopefully through our submission to God and His guidance.
Too often, we humans- we Christians- judge people by their actions and looks instead of looking at them as Christ looked at them and invest in them-love them- as He did.
No one can say for certain, or beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly causes homosexuality, what lays at the core of why some are homosexual and why some are not. There are many, many reasons within and outside of one's control. Each of us ,though, our and will be held responsible for the way we deal with it in ourselves and others.
Also, as a result of my struggle nd research into sexual matters I have come to realize that moral issues like abortion, homosexuality, pornography, and prostitution are symptoms of deeper issues for each of us on an individual, and societal basis. Issues that deal with relationships with ourselves, with others, and with God.
The Bible says something about each of us approaching God and Christ as little children. Little children do not tend to make distinctions between people, or right and wrong until taught by their parents.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/2/2008 4:42:26 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 7691
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
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ADMIN'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
For the sake of this discussion the following definitions will be used:
Homosexual ::
A person who engages in sexual relations with members of the same gender
SSA (Same Sex Attraction) ::
A person who struggles with being attracted to members of the same gender but abstains from engaging in sexual relations with them.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
_____________________________
Fritz
Senior Manager of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Want to see my latest online project? Check out http://budurl.com/CWonFacebook
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/9/2008 9:21:21 PM
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carl54
Posts: 66
Joined: 5/31/2005
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Homosexuality is a sin just as any other form of sin is sin. Because of our sin nature we have a propensity to sin. Most of us have a deep yearning within us that draws us to sin because of our sinful nature. With that said, I don't find it unbelievable when a homosexual says their conduct is a matter of the heart, and not a choice. The attraction they feel towards the same sex is real just as my attraction towards women that I am not married is real. Because they are real attractions doesn't make either of them right. Rom Ch 7 tells us we will have a lifelong struggle in the flesh to conquer sin. Our task is to conquer the desires of the flesh by yielding to the spirit of God that dwells within believers. Rom Ch 6 tells us time and again that we can conquer sin through the power of God. If we make ourselves the servants of sin (any sin), that sin will become our master. I fight my temptation to yield to my flesh and desire for other women daily. Someone that is attracted to the same sex has to fight that battle daily. That's the reality of living in the flesh. The temptation is not a sin and in most cases it is not a choice. The CHOICE is the conscious decision we make to yield to the temptation that calls on us.
_____________________________
Walk in the Sirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/9/2008 9:47:56 PM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
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quote:
I don't find it unbelievable when a homosexual says their conduct is a matter of the heart, and not a choice. The attraction they feel towards the same sex is real just as my attraction towards women that I am not married is real.
BUt, don't our choices come down to our heart? I think this is one of the reasons scripture speaks so strongly about our heart and where our hearts are tuned to. It also speaks strongly about sexual relationships as it does about interpersonal relationships. God wants us to turn our hearts toward Him. When our hearts are consumed with sex, our attitudes, values and beliefs are going to direct our thinking which causes us to choose behavior or identify with a lifestyle.
Also, the word attraction is some what of a misnomer as used. We are all attracted to different things. Sexual attraction, however, comes down to arousal. All too often we tend to think of arousal in physical terms. Yet, the mind has to become aroused by sexual thought before the body responds. So, what you are saying is that women you are not married to arouse your thinking and that homosexuals are aroused in their thinking toward members of the same sex. And this is supposed to be okay? I think this is what Christ was getting at when He spoke about looking at a woman lustfully is committing adultery. Why is it we always want to seperate the thought life from behavior?
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/9/2008 9:54:57 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Amtaev
Of course the topic is exhuasted. As you can see the Moderators of these forums are banning or threatening to ban everyone on this forum who do not have the same opinion as them regarding homosexuality (as seen in the forum rules).
How can there be a good, mature discussion between christians who have a different view on this if the christian authorities of this site censor it? They be default state that they are right and that we may not discuss this. We cannot question this or discuss about this in a way thats supportive of same-gender love...so what's there to discuss?
As you can see everyone who was against the forum rules on it and have explained why with well-thought out, unprovoking and filled with reasons-posts have been removed. I'm fear the day i will be censored and banned for my different christian views are not far off either.
Because some things cannot be defended...
John
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/9/2008 10:01:48 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solo_soprano22
quote:
ORIGINAL: Amtaev
I should correct that. I do not know everyone who posts here and apologize in advance for my gross generalization of everyone here opposing left-wing politics as a rule. I'm only human and by just seeing letters you are prone to misunderstanding more easily.....
Sorry for that.
Most, if not all here are against homosexuality, as in having sex with the same gender. I'm one who sees a biological basis for same-sex attraction, thus (for me) a homosexual relationship can arise from the fact that people's bodies and true gender biologically do not match. That's not to say that going ahead with a homosexual relationship is right, but to me, same-sex attraction is sometimes founded, not a "choice," and not always that person's fault. I suggest that if you want to find Christians who are more of your own mindset about it, seek out another forum to discuss/debate. I don't think here is the best place.
Sin is always a choice... There is nothing biblical to support the idea that some people are forced into homosexual relationships because God created them a certain way...
What is edifying about a place that would encourage debate about the sin of homosexuality in the context that those who believe its ok have anything to stand on biblically speaking?
John
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/9/2008 10:06:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
Wesp,
I am sorry if my reasoning seems a bit confusing. I, myself, noticed, while I was writing, that I found myself delving into areas I didn't fully understand why or how I was going in. I quess I find discussions about moral issues, such as homosexuality, a bit confusing because some people tend to stress the act over all other possible aspects. Aspects that really need to be taken into account if one hopes to make some inroads into the lives of those caught up in such issues.
Yes, the Bible says homosexuality is sinful, but is the Biblle just talking about the act or how one sees himself in relation to himself; how one sees himself in relation to members of the opposite sex, or the same sex; or in relation to his relationship with God?
Through my own struggle with gender, identity, intimacy, relationship, and sexual matters, and research into such matters I have come to the conclusion that because of the nature of sin in the world each of us have been saddled with our own "thorns in the flesh" that we have to deal with until we are able to resolve it in some manner, hopefully through our submission to God and His guidance.
Too often, we humans- we Christians- judge people by their actions and looks instead of looking at them as Christ looked at them and invest in them-love them- as He did.
No one can say for certain, or beyond a shadow of a doubt what exactly causes homosexuality, what lays at the core of why some are homosexual and why some are not. There are many, many reasons within and outside of one's control. Each of us ,though, our and will be held responsible for the way we deal with it in ourselves and others.
Also, as a result of my struggle nd research into sexual matters I have come to realize that moral issues like abortion, homosexuality, pornography, and prostitution are symptoms of deeper issues for each of us on an individual, and societal basis. Issues that deal with relationships with ourselves, with others, and with God.
For certain sin is a choice.... And the foundation for all sins is man's desire to serve those desires above serving God... The bible is far from silent on the matter of sin, its orgin and why man does what he does...
quote:
The Bible says something about each of us approaching God and Christ as little children. Little children do not tend to make distinctions between people, or right and wrong until taught by their parents.
I have known kids to avoid certain people... And many times they seem to sense something about them...
John
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/9/2008 10:09:20 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5511
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: carl54
Homosexuality is a sin just as any other form of sin is sin. Because of our sin nature we have a propensity to sin. Most of us have a deep yearning within us that draws us to sin because of our sinful nature. With that said, I don't find it unbelievable when a homosexual says their conduct is a matter of the heart, and not a choice. The attraction they feel towards the same sex is real just as my attraction towards women that I am not married is real. Because they are real attractions doesn't make either of them right. Rom Ch 7 tells us we will have a lifelong struggle in the flesh to conquer sin. Our task is to conquer the desires of the flesh by yielding to the spirit of God that dwells within believers. Rom Ch 6 tells us time and again that we can conquer sin through the power of God. If we make ourselves the servants of sin (any sin), that sin will become our master. I fight my temptation to yield to my flesh and desire for other women daily. Someone that is attracted to the same sex has to fight that battle daily. That's the reality of living in the flesh. The temptation is not a sin and in most cases it is not a choice. The CHOICE is the conscious decision we make to yield to the temptation that calls on us.
By all means it's a matter of the heart and that leads to the choice...
John
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/10/2008 5:29:25 PM
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schupfNoodle
Posts: 95
Joined: 7/27/2006
Status: offline
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The people here say that homosexuality is a sin. How do you respond to someone that says otherwise? One who has read the bible but says the bible isn't clear about homosexuality.
I've given this person the usual verses but he insists the 'original' word for it means 'soft'. I also mentioned that I knew ex-gays at church and he said that they're probably living miserable lives 
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/10/2008 10:09:37 PM
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Leon_Figg3
Posts: 476
Joined: 4/24/2005
Status: offline
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schupfNoodle,
I am not sure that there really is a way that one could answer the question that you seem to be asking by using the Bible as a means of convincing someone that homosexuality is wrong. The fact is that the Bible says very little directly about homosexuality, or sexual perversion other than to say that the act is sinful.
Now, as a result of my own struggle and research into/ with sexual morality I have discovered that many, if not most of those dealing with SSA, hosmosexuality, and the like tend to see the matter in a much larger sense than most Christians. The see the matter in terms of identity more than they see it as the rightness or wrongness of the act. I have read story after story of those dealing with homosexuality, and other sexual matters, turning to the church soon after realizing that they were "different", as far as sexual matters were concerned, only to be turned away because the church does not really seem to know how to deal with sexual issues.
That seems to be changing, I believe, because many are learning that the answer lays in relationships and the fact that all who live lives outside of God's design / will are all living miserable lives whether they realize it or not.
_____________________________
To whom much is given, much is expected. Luke 12:48
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/10/2008 11:44:37 PM
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doublecross
Posts: 121
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: schupfNoodle
The people here say that homosexuality is a sin. How do you respond to someone that says otherwise? One who has read the bible but says the bible isn't clear about homosexuality.
I've given this person the usual verses but he insists the 'original' word for it means 'soft'. I also mentioned that I knew ex-gays at church and he said that they're probably living miserable lives
Walk away.
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/11/2008 10:05:48 PM
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carl54
Posts: 66
Joined: 5/31/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
With that said, I don't find it unbelievable when a homosexual says their conduct is a matter of the heart, and not a choice. The attraction they feel towards the same sex is real just as my attraction towards women that I am not married is real. Because they are real attractions doesn't make either of them right. Rom Ch 7 tells us we will have a lifelong struggle in the flesh to conquer sin. Our task is to conquer the desires of the flesh by yielding to the spirit of God that dwells within believers. Rom Ch 6 tells us time and again that we can conquer sin through the power of God.
Sovereighishe -- the portion of my statement you quoted was misleading. I added some more of what I said above. Because lust for the same sex is a true feeling does not make it right. Quite to the contrary, yielding to our fleshly lusts is sinful, whether it be homosexuality or any other sin. But God offers a way out in Rom 6 and 7.
_____________________________
Walk in the Sirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/13/2008 12:38:40 AM
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doublecross
Posts: 121
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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What about a man who likes to wear women's dresses but does not have any desire for the same sex. Is this considered a sin?
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/13/2008 12:47:24 AM
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zamdad
Posts: 1697
Joined: 4/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
doublecross
What about a man who likes to wear women's dresses but does not have any desire for the same sex. Is this considered a sin?
See the other one stop thread on cross dressing/transgenderism.
_____________________________
The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/13/2008 1:11:33 AM
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Kath
Posts: 17146
Joined: 2/28/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: doublecross
What about a man who likes to wear women's dresses but does not have any desire for the same sex. Is this considered a sin?
Zamdad is right, we do have another one stop thread for that topic, which I have linked for you below. To discuss it here will take this thread off topic.
Transgenderism/Crossdressing:
Click Here
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/13/2008 3:02:22 AM
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doublecross
Posts: 121
Joined: 6/30/2008
Status: offline
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Thanks!
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RE: The Rules at "Ex-Gay" Ministries - 7/14/2008 8:22:29 PM
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carl54
Posts: 66
Joined: 5/31/2005
Status: offline
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Stampinlady, thanks. I am always puzzled by the logic that says homosexuality is ok because the feelings are real. James 1:14 says we are tempted when we are drawn away by our own desires. These desires come from within us and they are real. The Bible tells us we should renew our mind, resist the devil, walk in the spirit, put on the armour of God, ... to fight our fleshly desires. It is a lifelong walk. Every man and every woman has their two-headed monster to fight. Homosexuals kid themselve when they suppose they are the only ones with issues. We all have then, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Welcome to the flesh.
_____________________________
Walk in the Sirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. Gal 5:16
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/25/2008 1:40:36 AM
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beachcooky
Posts: 893
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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I don't think you are born with it. Both of my uncles are gay, and I don't think they were gay growing up.
Do I agree with it? No.
Do I judge them? Absolutely NOT!
And I love them to death.
I don't know if it's a choice or they just form feelings for the same sex overtime.
I don't ask my uncles this, because it is a personal question. And one of my uncles actually left the family at age 20. He disappeared. He left a note saying he was gay and he finally disappeared. He was gone for 14 years until my grandma found him. And now he's a part of our family again! :)
But I don't think they are born with it.
_____________________________
www.myspace.com/xsweetheartforux
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2008 12:59:16 AM
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beachcooky
Posts: 893
Joined: 6/21/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
What they are born with, like all of us is a sinful nature and for them it has manifested into the sin of homosexuality and they only cure for any sin is Christ...
Agreed.
_____________________________
www.myspace.com/xsweetheartforux
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RE: Homosexuality - One Stop Thread - 7/31/2008 4:23:16 AM
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PureLight
Posts: 195
Joined: 4/30/2008
Status: offline
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I sure don't remember choosing to have feelings that could have gotten me killed in a more intolerant town. 
Point of the matter is, you're not going to find a gay man who -chose- to have those feelings, and if you do, I'd like to meet them because I'd have to tell them it was a darn stupid decision. Why would you -choose- to pick a lifestyle that could get you shunned, made an outcast, killed in some places?
As I see it, I believe SSA came into my life (I never acted on my feelings, was too terrified to.) because of some sin of family since curses can come down like that.
Right now, I'm sanctified by Christ and healed by him so it's not a problem now, but I still remember my life pre-Christ and I certainly remember how I felt.
The only reason I would be able to consider that the love of Christ was real was through that love reflected in my now-church family. When I told them what I was, they didn't blink an eye at me and didn't force any kind of rhetoric on me. They of course encouraged my own wanting to be free of it though. If you know anyone homosexual or with SSA, they might be offended right off the bat -because- you're Christian, it's then YOUR duty to show them that it's certainly not something to get offended over since, without the grace of God, there goes you.
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