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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 11:43:10 PM
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bobservations
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Wow, He needs a lot of prayer said on his behalf. Satan would have him in this state of mind. Just because Adventists have been proven wrong to him doesn't mean there isn't a place for him in some body of believers.
After I left Adventism I didn't fellowship for three years. I missed the suport I recieved from other believers and sought a group that didn't practise mind control. One that would love me even with all my faults. I found one. I even have some different slants on interpretation and they accept me anyway. Christianity is a beautiful concept. If we follow the teachings of Jesus we can't help but be happy and loving. And just think, He accepts us even when we are wrong. What a friend.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 12:14:11 AM
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destiny24
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 8:40:01 AM
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gambit
Posts: 1209
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chief
Gambit,
Apparently, believers should take it both ways.
In a sense, yes it would be work. They would be making money, yes. They would be carrying burdens, yes. But according to Jesus it is a work that is necessary and He does it Himself by healing on a sabbath. Granted that he was not paid for His services but what it produced was a work of mercy.
Preachers work on the Lord's day and the bible even suggest that they get remunerated for their work.
The disciples plucked ears of corn on a sabbath but this became an issue with the Pharisees. Apparently for them it was no different form picking up sticks on a sabbath. But the the Lord contended that it was permitted on the sabbath.
Remember, the New Covenant has not come yet at this time and the Lord is already applying principles we would normally say that does apply only in the New Covenant Era.
Apparently Jesus never contended against resting. He contended for doing the Lord's work in it as well. Mercy is the Lord's work.
The New Covenant has not come yet? 
Yikes, we better revamp the New Testament.
I Corinthians 11:25 "This cup IS THE NEW COVENANT IN MY BLOOD, do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me".
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 11:32:50 AM
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Chief
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You must read the account of Jesus at the time that He clarified what that one day in a week was for. It was before the ratification of the New Covenant before the sacrifice was made, etc. However, there is yet much to be told about the institution of Covenants. But if you think that the Lord's Supper initiated it then historically His spiritual teachings about the sabbath was given way before that night.
Matt 12:1-14, Mark 2:23-3:6, Luke 6:1-11, Luke 13:10-17, Luke 14:1-6; John 5:1-18, and John 7:20-24
Just like the other commandments Jesus clarified the spiritual application of the Law no different from His clarification of the sin of murder and adultery. His clarification gave the commandments a more spiritual depth into the perspective of His hearers and the readers of the gospels.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 11:46:53 AM
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Chief
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gambit
But that would require people to work and be on staff every sabbath. You can't have it both ways. Who's to say what is a work of mercy and what isn't.
I understand. When Jesus was confronted about the whole thing on the sabbath did not deny that He was working on a sabbath.
He justified it and said: Joh 5:17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
Read the whole account on John 5:1-18.
Meaning that it is permissive on a sabbath to heal and save lives.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 11:48:51 AM
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Chief
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saintgrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: saintgrace
Worship God every day... 24/7... then there will be no question as to what day is "right".
My point is ... it seems quite ridiculous to me for people to niggle and gripe with one another about whether Saturday is "right" or whether Sunday is "right", when there is no wrong day for worship.
I here you saintgrace, but Jesus never niggle griped with hallowing one day. He griped about how it was being hallowed.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 12:22:53 PM
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Chief
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Bob,
Glad to see a response. Here are my takes on your comments.
quote:
As far as Exhortation is concerned it wasn't one of the 613. Jesus did it, but you haven't given me scripture that it was required. Prayer was not one of the 613 either. Jesus would have not done anything that God would have not required. That should have been enough proof.
quote:
Sorry I had my mind on Acts 20:7. I over looked the scripture you gave. In Jn 20:19 they were assembled for fear of the Jews. I don't believe they were commemorating his resurrection. At least it doesn't state that they were. They did not know that they should at that time. They feared the Jews because the lost their master. But when Jesus appeared it re-assured them. Hence, on the next week the met again and Jesus came again.
quote:
As to the Apostles following similar Godly principles... 1st Cor. 16:1-3 says that on the first day of every week set aside money in keeping with income and save it up so when Paul comes to collect it no (last minute) collections would have to be made. It says nothing about being in assembly and I would assume that they counted the money they made during the work week and set it aside in their homes until Paul came. It is apparent in the text that it had to be in one specified day. It was not a last minute instruction, Bob. He said "the first day of EVERYWEEK". It was not only in Corinth that He gave this instruction but in Galatia too. The instruction was "Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come." The key words are each one, first day and every week. We all know how things work and their portions then are not paper money that can be gathered quickly through convenient means or that traveling was as convenient as ours. For Paul it would have been practical for every first day of the week to do so. It is obvious that it is not only one or two persons will do this but the whole church as gathered.
quote:
Do you have other examples? Ac 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
quote:
Col. 2:15 Would you like to tell me what it tells you?
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 6:57:37 PM
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SugarReinz
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It was interesting, I was just given a key chain that had the Ten Commandments on them. I read through them with a smile and then it faded when I found that the words were changed to "Remember the Lord's day and keep it holy." So...what happened to the Sabbath? Gone? It was quite sad. Sort of like it was saying, "Pick and choose which day you think is right to keep holy!!!!!"
I was talking with my grandmother and she was telling me of someone not doing work on Sunday because he wanted to "Keep the Sabbath holy." It was sad, really, that one would think that the Sabbath is Sunday. And to change the Holy Day!
Someone said earlier that Sunday is the "true" Lord's day... wait. I'm sorry? Maybe I read that wrong...I hope I did, right? How could someone twist Adonai's teaching like that?! I urge you to search the Holy Scriptures and find where Adonai Himself changed the Sabbath...The Holy Day! But seriously, find that for me. And then I will cease to wonder why Believers today change things that the Lord Himself never did! Funny, isn't it? 
_____________________________
Shema Isra'el Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad!
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 7:25:08 PM
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bobservations
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Sugar, you are confusing me. Are you here on this forum promoting the 7th day Sabbath for NT Christians?
The last time we had a discussion, and correct me if I am wrong, you were about to cast your lot with the Church of Christ (no music). They certainly do not keep the 7th day Sabbath.
Peace, boB
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 8:18:11 PM
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bobservations
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Chief, it is evident that you esteem one day above another. I respect that. I happen to believe we shouldn't make any one day holier than the next. Christianity is not about a day, it is about being ready to meet our maker and spreading the Good News. It is about are we morally living the life He wills for us. Jesus spent much time with the pharasees because they had taken such a narrow view and were concentrating on Sabbath and the tithe they were giving. Trying to keep a day seems so trivial to me. Love, forgiveness, compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience are far more important than trying to keep a day.
You said that you believe that the Sabbath is part of the Moral laws because it is in the 10 commandments. Of course that is your right to believe that. I don't. It is very much ritual. Moral laws have to do with how we honor our Creator and our fellow man. Moral laws never cease. Ritual laws deal with all other aspects of our Christian life. Eating, drinking, Sabbath keeping and etc., as long as those things do not trample our relationship with God and man they are not moral issues. Not eating unclean meat was ritual law. Those laws given to the Israelites were nailed to the Cross. For example: eating hog meat and some sea foods. All those ritual laws were cancelled for the Christian.
Another moral issue that normally doesn't come up is our treatment of God's other creatures.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 9:35:38 PM
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BrotherEldon
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Are Sabbath keepers "Legalizers"??
Are those who do not "Commit murder" legalizers?
Are those who "honor father and mother" legalizers?
The Answer could be YES OR NO...
If you attempt to be justified by your obedience, then you are a legalizer..
If you simply Trust in GOD for justification, and obey because you love and respect GOD, then you are not....
I think that "Sunday Keepers" are more Phariseeical than Sabbath keepers... Seeing how they ignore the Command of GOD and keep a tradition of man in its place.
Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
I love to defend the Sabbath :-)
First I have the 10 Commandments on my side.
For most lovers of God we must only turn to the twentieth chapter of Exodus to prove that it is right to keep the Sabbath of the bible. But for some theology has lead them to dismiss the very words written by the finger of God, and spoken from his lips as if they were like the words of men.
Then I offer a short look at the history of the Sabbath from the death of Christ, to the death of the Apostles, which begins like so:
Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Here it is showed that after the death of Christ, his disciples kept the Sabbath according to the Commandment of GOD. As we read the accounts of the four gospels we do not find one instance of Christ teaching his disciples that the Sabbath was abolished, or that it should not be observed, but rather he taught them to do only that which was lawful. If Christ did not teach them that the Sabbath was abolished or replaced before he died, then he did not do it at all, for the New Testament was put in force at his death, never to be altered (Hebrews 9:16-17, Galatians 3:15).
Christ’s first disciples that continued with him were all Jews, and they all were custom to keeping the Sabbath.
PENTECOST
There were three thousand men added to the Church of God on that day 2000 years ago. What kind of men were these?
Acts 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
They all were Jews, in fact for the first 10 years after Christ’s ascension, the church was made up of nothing but Sabbath keeping Jews.
How did the converted Jews (Messianic Jew) feel about the 10 Commandments? And the ordinances of the law?
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
The Jewish believers, which included the Apostles themselves, were zealous over the law of GOD. Not only the 10 commandments, but they also continued in the ordinances of Moses. You can read the whole history of the Apostles’ work after Christ’s ascension and not once were they ever accused of breaking the Sabbath. The Lord had taught the Apostles to do only that which was lawful on the 7th day. And it is clear that they respected and kept the Sabbath for the whole of their life.
These men who accepted Christ on that day, soon returned to their homes in all of these foreign countries, there they shared Christ with their loved ones, and home churches were formed. What kind of home churches? Sabbath keeping home churches.
I can go on with this :-) And no doubt that I will... I will prove to those with eyes to see and ears to hear that the Sabbath was not abolished by Christ, but forbidden by the Roman Gov. and the Roman Church in the fourth century.
Churches up to that point observed Sabbath,, and a remnant has survived even to this day.
If you TRULY WANT TRUTH, then sincerely pray to GOD and ask him if it is right or wrong to keep Sabbath... No doubt he will answer: "If you love me, Keep my Commandments"... Atleast those are the words he spoke to me many years ago when I prayed over this issue.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/13/2005 10:34:59 PM
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SugarReinz
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Bobservations, You are probably referring to Romans 14:5, right when you say that every day is holy? Check out verse one of the chapter. Paul was stating someone's opinion.
_____________________________
Shema Isra'el Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad!
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 10:15:57 AM
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gambit
Posts: 1209
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SugarReinz
It was interesting, I was just given a key chain that had the Ten Commandments on them. I read through them with a smile and then it faded when I found that the words were changed to "Remember the Lord's day and keep it holy." So...what happened to the Sabbath? Gone? It was quite sad. Sort of like it was saying, "Pick and choose which day you think is right to keep holy!!!!!"
I was talking with my grandmother and she was telling me of someone not doing work on Sunday because he wanted to "Keep the Sabbath holy." It was sad, really, that one would think that the Sabbath is Sunday. And to change the Holy Day!
Someone said earlier that Sunday is the "true" Lord's day... wait. I'm sorry? Maybe I read that wrong...I hope I did, right? How could someone twist Adonai's teaching like that?! I urge you to search the Holy Scriptures and find where Adonai Himself changed the Sabbath...The Holy Day! But seriously, find that for me. And then I will cease to wonder why Believers today change things that the Lord Himself never did! Funny, isn't it?
I don't think anyone here is saying that Sunday is now the sabbath day, it's still the 7th day for those who choose to observe it. Sunday is just a technical term for the Lord's Day (as described in Revelation 1:10). It's the same day which the early Christians met (Acts 20:7).
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 10:20:25 AM
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bobservations
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Sugar said: quote:
Why did you just pick the "NT" out of the whole Bible placed before us? And the Sabbath is in the New Testament, you know. Didn't Yeshua Himself say He is Lord even on the Sabbath day? Not the SUNDAY but the Sabbath. Which is the 7th day...just in case you didn't catch that. And which we were commanded to keep by the Lord. Unless you believe that we are not supposed to do what the Lord says and commands. It was abolished, right?
Messianic Christians use the Old Testament in there doctrines ie Sabbath, New Moons and Festivals. I am referring only to NT Christians.
Sure the Sabbath is in the NT. Jesus while on Earth was subject to the Old Covenant laws. Why wouldn't He mention the Sabbath and observe it. He created it, gave it to the Jews and fulfilled the obligation to observe it. Remember He said that "not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished". You have to know it was accomplished on the Cross, the Law was nailed to the Cross. That was the Old Covanent,nailed no longer a requirement for His children. Messianic Christians do not accept Col. 2:13 as being the Old Covanent. I don't know how they can get around it in light of all the supporting texts. Jwsus did fulfill the requirements of the Law. That was one of the reasons He became man.
How can we serve the Old and the New at the same time? Hebrews is very clear that the Old was inferior to the New. Remember jesus telling us that we can't put new wine into old wineskins? Messianic Christians just don't understand. They are putting themselves back under the Law and also trying to accept Grace. What an unnecessary dilemma. Their worship may seem exciting and they may be playing with your emotions, but I believe you have enough Bible knowledge to know that they can't be on the right track.
A good and thorough study of the Covenants will fortify you. A very good book on the subject is "Sabbath in Christ". It can be puchased from www.ratzlaf.com To understand the Sabbath and whether it is binding on NT Christians we have to know the significance or relevance of the different covenants that God gave to all mankind.
Sugar said: Which is the 7th day...just in case you didn't catch that. And which we were commanded to keep by the Lord. Unless you believe that we are not supposed to do what the Lord says and commands. It was abolished, right?
Sugar, I was an SDA for over 40 years. I know Sabbath. You, in your statement, said that "WE (my emphasis) were commanded to keep". God only gave it to the Jews. The statement shouldn't be WE, it is "they". We are to do what the Lord commands. He just isn't commanding Sabbath observance for Christians. Really it is very simple once you understand the Covenants and don't try to mix the two. As stated above the Sabbath and the remainder of th 613 ritual laws were certainly abolished.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 11:09:28 AM
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lss44
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Pray without ceasing...worship God at all times...the day does not matter. The content of our heart is what matters.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 11:13:59 AM
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gambit
Posts: 1209
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That's right.
Once again I'll post the following:
Galatians 3:5 "Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what was heard?"
Galations 3:11 "No one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous will live by faith".
Galations 3:25 "Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law".
And this one really rings true for those who insist on sabbath keeping:
Galations 4:9-10 " "how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all again? YOU ARE OBSERVING SPECIAL DAYS AND MONTHS AND SEASON AND YEARS!"
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 12:00:32 PM
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bobservations
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BrotherEldon
Are Sabbath keepers "Legalizers"?? Surely they are.
Are those who do not "Commit murder" legalizers?
Are those who "honor father and mother" legalizers?
The answer is no to both questions. They are part of the Royal Law, Love. Moral laws are forever.
The Answer could be YES OR NO...
If you attempt to be justified by your obedience, then you are a legalizer.. If you attempt to "keep" the Sabbath you are a legalizer
If you simply Trust in GOD for justification, and obey because you love and respect GOD, then you are not.... Right, obey the Royal Law, and that would be Love for God and Love for our fellow man.
The 4th commandment was ritual law. The other 9 are moral. Moral laws are forever. Old Testament ritual ones faded away. Funny though, according to you the meat laws are still in effect. Wonder why? Isaiah 65 and 66 say some strange things, so I don't buy that as a reason.
I think that "Sunday Keepers" are more Phariseeical than Sabbath keepers... Seeing how they ignore the Command of GOD and keep a tradition of man in its place. Maybe you shouldn't think. It is getting you into a terrible mess. Anyway what is the basis for your thought? I have Col. 2:13 on my side. No tradition there. The Old faded away at the Cross. Jesus fulfilled the Old Covenant, all 613 of them including the Sabbath.
Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men...
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Correct me if I am wrong, but He was talking to some Pharisses and some teachers. They had whole books full of added laws that they were teaching. Nothing but tradition. How can you apply those verses to NT Christians? This is just another example of mind control. You have let others tell you these things and you just mimick them to others. Why not try studying for youself. At least check out what others are teaching. Maybe you aren't really the remnant you so loudly boast of being.
I love to defend the Sabbath :-) And I love to defend the truth about Sabbath '"keeping". 
First I have the 10 Commandments on my side. Then that would make you a scantimonious Jew living before Christ came as Savior.
For most lovers of God we must only turn to the twentieth chapter of Exodus to prove that it is right to keep the Sabbath of the bible. But for some theology has lead them to dismiss the very words written by the finger of God, and spoken from his lips as if they were like the words of men. It was written by the finger of God for the Jews. God never intended it to be for all men. If He had He would have instructed the Jews to "go ye into all the World". Jesus only has made that a requirement for Christians. We are to spread the Good News. and included in the Good News is that Jews are no longer under the Law.
Then I offer a short look at the history of the Sabbath from the death of Christ, to the death of the Apostles, which begins like so:
Luke 23:56 And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Here it is showed that after the death of Christ, his disciples kept the Sabbath according to the Commandment of GOD. As we read the accounts of the four gospels we do not find one instance of Christ teaching his disciples that the Sabbath was abolished, or that it should not be observed, but rather he taught them to do only that which was lawful. If Christ did not teach them that the Sabbath was abolished or replaced before he died, then he did not do it at all, for the New Testament was put in force at his death, never to be altered (Hebrews 9:16-17, Galatians 3:15). He did teach that the Law would be fulfilledwhen all was accomplished. He accomplished it on the Cross and resurrection. They rested in respect for the Law. Christ had not yet accomplished all. The resurrection had not taken place yet.
Gal. 3:15 is telling us that the Covenant cannot be altered and the Covenant doesn't say anything about "keeping" Sabbath. So why are you Sabbath entushusiasts trying to do it?
PENTECOST
There were three thousand men added to the Church of God on that day 2000 years ago. What kind of men were these? They were NT Christians after they heard the word and believed.
Acts 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
They all were Jews, in fact for the first 10 years after Christ’s ascension, the church was made up of nothing but Sabbath keeping Jews. Wow, is this scriptural?
How did the converted Jews (Messianic Jew) feel about the 10 Commandments? And the ordinances of the law?
Acts 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: Come on now Bro, you didn't finish the thought. You are taking scripture out of context. That is naughty when debating. You should get 10 lashes with a wet noodle for that one.
The Jewish believers, which included the Apostles themselves, were zealous over the law of GOD. Not only the 10 commandments, but they also continued in the ordinances of Moses. You can read the whole history of the Apostles’ work after Christ’s ascension and not once were they ever accused of breaking the Sabbath. The Lord had taught the Apostles to do only that which was lawful on the 7th day. And it is clear that they respected and kept the Sabbath for the whole of their life. Wow again, this simply is not the truth. Maybe you are remembering something from Mrs. White. I don't believe her either. The only rule I go by is if it isn't from the Bible it is under suspicion.
These men who accepted Christ on that day, soon returned to their homes in all of these foreign countries, there they shared Christ with their loved ones, and home churches were formed. What kind of home churches? Sabbath keeping home churches. Do tell. Lets see, where do we find this in the Bible?
I can go on with this :-) And no doubt that I will... I will prove to those with eyes to see and ears to hear that the Sabbath was not abolished by Christ, but forbidden by the Roman Gov. and the Roman Church in the fourth century. Sounds like SDA talk to me
Churches up to that point observed Sabbath,, and a remnant has survived even to this day. You are certainly indoctrinated with Ellen. She even saw a "halo" around the Sabbath Commandment, making it more important that any of the remainder. I bet being a part of the Sabbath keeping remnant is very comforting to you. It doesn't do a thing for me. Maybe because I know that it is all a sham.
If you TRULY WANT TRUTH, then sincerely pray to GOD and ask him if it is right or wrong to keep Sabbath... No doubt he will answer: "If you love me, Keep my Commandments"... Atleast those are the words he spoke to me many years ago when I prayed over this issue. Well Bro, we should test the scriptures to know who is really speaking to us. satan has been known to do a little speaking himself.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 12:06:47 PM
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SugarReinz
Posts: 48
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
Sugar, I was an SDA for over 40 years. I know Sabbath. You, in your statement, said that "WE (my emphasis) were commanded to keep". God only gave it to the Jews. The statement shouldn't be WE, it is "they". We are to do what the Lord commands. He just isn't commanding Sabbath observance for Christians. Really it is very simple once you understand the Covenants and don't try to mix the two. As stated above the Sabbath and the remainder of th 613 ritual laws were certainly abolished.
Also, take note that when the Jews were given the Law, they were told that the foreigners around them could not do any work either. It is the Holy Day. Sabbath was made for MAN not man for the Sabbath! That is what Yeshua said. 
_____________________________
Shema Isra'el Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Echad!
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 12:32:14 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SugarReinz
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
Sugar, I was an SDA for over 40 years. I know Sabbath. You, in your statement, said that "WE (my emphasis) were commanded to keep". God only gave it to the Jews. The statement shouldn't be WE, it is "they". We are to do what the Lord commands. He just isn't commanding Sabbath observance for Christians. Really it is very simple once you understand the Covenants and don't try to mix the two. As stated above the Sabbath and the remainder of th 613 ritual laws were certainly abolished.
Also, take note that when the Jews were given the Law, they were told that the foreigners around them could not do any work either. It is the Holy Day. Sabbath was made for MAN not man for the Sabbath! That is what Yeshua said.
The Gentiles had to be circumcised before observing the Sabbath. They didn't just drop in. Israelites were not allowed to cause anyone or even their beasts of burden to work on the Holy Sabbath. God never told the Gentiles thay had to keep Sabbath. Where is your thinking cap. Don't just mimick those who are trying to sweep you up into their fold.
Quoting Sabbath was made for man... doesn't offer any proof that we are to keep it.
Why are you suddenly calling God "Yeshua". Not that it is wrong, but I suspicion you are more than just thinking about Messianic Christian life. That happened in a hurry. I would prefere to take some time to think things out. As I said in a previous post, it may all sound good and may be exciting now, but is it scriptural. I know it isn't and am throwing up a flag for you to reconsider. Peace, boB
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 1:11:09 PM
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rockv12
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
If you simply Trust in GOD for justification, and obey because you love and respect GOD, then you are not.... Right, obey the Royal Law, and that would be Love for God and Love for our fellow man.
The 4th commandment was ritual law. The other 9 are moral. Moral laws are forever. Old Testament ritual ones faded away. Funny though, according to you the meat laws are still in effect. Wonder why? Isaiah 65 and 66 say some strange things, so I don't buy that as a reason.
Why, Why would God stick a law like the Sabbath among all these other laws that are meant to stand forever and intend that the 4th doesn't? It doesn't make sense to me that God would care so much about His Sabbath day and then simply quit caring about it. The Ten Commandments are unified, not The 90% of the Ten Commandments. It just doesn't jive.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 1:14:45 PM
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rockv12
Posts: 62
Joined: 4/19/2005
Status: offline
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Also, not all Sabbath keeping is tied to SDA. SDA has given Sabbath keeping, in general, a bad reputation among most Christians. "Oh, Sabbath keepers!! They are Adventists and Adventists are messed up!!" No, they are messed up not because of the Sabbath issue, but other issues. I am not SDA, but know the Sabbath truth.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 1:26:08 PM
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gambit
Posts: 1209
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SugarReinz
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobservations
Sugar, I was an SDA for over 40 years. I know Sabbath. You, in your statement, said that "WE (my emphasis) were commanded to keep". God only gave it to the Jews. The statement shouldn't be WE, it is "they". We are to do what the Lord commands. He just isn't commanding Sabbath observance for Christians. Really it is very simple once you understand the Covenants and don't try to mix the two. As stated above the Sabbath and the remainder of th 613 ritual laws were certainly abolished.
Also, take note that when the Jews were given the Law, they were told that the foreigners around them could not do any work either. It is the Holy Day. Sabbath was made for MAN not man for the Sabbath! That is what Yeshua said.
Boy, that's the oldest trick in the hat to try and force people to obey a sabbath law.
You really need to quote the entire chapter as Jesus and his disciples were being accused of breaking the sabbath by picking and eating grains. It goes on about how the Pharises were plotting to kill Jesus, that's when Jesus ask which is lawful to do on the sabbath, to do good or evil?
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/14/2005 1:29:27 PM
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