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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 9:45:08 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving this from FaithWalk to The Church.
Thanks!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 11:11:47 AM
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cog41
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As I said earlier. Lots of folks don't want to confront the truth.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 11:22:40 AM
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MensWriter
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I've heard Dr. MacArthur on the radio several times, and understand he has little (to no) use for full-gospel folks like me (matter of fact, in the past he's ripped us pretty badly).
But he preaches a strong salvation message, and if people are coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus under him, I say God bless him. I for one will continue to lift up this dear brother.
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer of suspense
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 11:57:41 AM
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hisson7
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Praise the LORD!!!
I believe he is correct. All one has to do is open their eyes and look around. How many 'Christians' will they see that serve HIM with they're lips and not with their lives. They live a life not unlike the world and only bring up the LORD's name when around other believers. I'm familiar with John's works, but truly only follow after that of the Bible! This is due to the fact that years back I was reading everything written along the Christian lines, much of it proved to be contrary to scripture. Since then I've only read books when prompted by the HOLY SPIRIT to do so! Man has always changed things to promote their own agendas, this is no different with scripture.
If one were to search the internet, as I have, they'd find many sites that are truly far from anything that could be called scriptural! I've found sites that promote acts of sexual immorality simply by interpreting scripture "as they want." There are massive amounts of sites that deal with areas of life where the LORD's teachings are clearly stated, yet they fail to follow HIS teachings. All these have we been forewarned about and should take in stride. For they warrant the end times prophecies. Our LORD's return draws near and we should spend our time serving HIM to the fullest and allow HIM to take care of those that preach falsely!!!
I pray that you'll follow after the LORD's teaching as led by the HOLY SPIRIT and be prepared for HIS eminent return!!!
GOD bless and good day,
_____________________________
Rev. M.T.Barth
Vine of CHRIST Ministries
www.vineofchrist.org
If I had but one day left to live, let me live it serving the LORD!!!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 12:25:39 PM
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Gloryandgrace
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John is a bone cruncher. I like bone crunchers.
Every heard of a guy that killed those who were against his religion?
he killed every last one he could get his hands on, then burned down the meeting places, ruined the altars and then if that wasnt bad enough he dug up the graves of the old priests that were apart of the religion that was opposing him and burned their bones and ground them to powder.
What was His name? Josiah
2kings 23: 24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.
25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.
This kings whole ministry consisted of destroying and killing anyone or anything that had anything to do with false religion.
and God said...... 25 And like unto him was there no king before him, that turned to the LORD with all his heart, and with all his soul, and with all his might, according to all the law of Moses; neither after him arose there any like him.
Granted we are not old testament killers of pagan priests, but we are to hate and remove and destroy anything that spoils the true worship of God. Instead as John M has said...easy believeism is rampant.
I say Josiahs are condemned and the pagans are tolerated.
John
_____________________________
Isa 42:6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles.....
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 2:02:33 PM
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colliefan
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From: Raleigh, NC
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Aparently, Jude wasn't graceful when he penned the following:
Jude 1:12 - 19 (HCSB) 12These are the ones who are like dangerous reefs at your love feasts. They feast with you, nurturing only themselves without fear. They are waterless clouds carried along by winds; trees in late autumn—fruitless, twice dead, pulled out by the roots; 13wild waves of the sea, foaming up their shameful deeds; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever! 14And Enoch, in the seventh generationû from Adam, prophesied about them: Look! The Lord comes with thousands of His holy ones 15 to execute judgment on all, and to convict them of all their ungodly£ deeds that they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things ungodly sinners have said against Him. 16These people are discontented grumblers, walking according to their desires; their mouths utter arrogant words, flattering people for their own advantage. 17But you, dear friends, remember the words foretold by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18they told you, “In the end time£ there will be scoffers walking according to their own ungodly desires.” 19These people create divisions and are merely natural, not having the Spirit.
I, too, may disagree with him on some areas of doctrine, but I believe he is dead on on the dumbing down of the church.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/5/2007 2:51:21 PM
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cog41
Posts: 616
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From: The Great State of Texas
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quote:
but I believe he is dead on on the dumbing down of the church.
Amen.
_____________________________
Psalm 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: "May they prosper who love you."
Hook'em Horns! Roll Tide!
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 1:56:10 PM
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rileykins
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He is correct. Only the false gospel that has taken over the church is the one that he preaches and calls Lordship Salvation. It's nothing new, Paul had to deal with this kind of thing back in his time.
Try this for a much better read...."Lordship Salvation and the gospel of the grace of God" by Joel Finck. You can read it on line if you like.
rileykins
quote:
ORIGINAL: asker
In 1988 MacArthur charged that the church has been taken over by a false gospel. Is he right?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 4:34:38 PM
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Rick4Him
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rileykins
He is correct. Only the false gospel that has taken over the church is the one that he preaches and calls Lordship Salvation. It's nothing new, Paul had to deal with this kind of thing back in his time.
Try this for a much better read...."Lordship Salvation and the gospel of the grace of God" by Joel Finck. You can read it on line if you like.
rileykins
quote:
ORIGINAL: asker
In 1988 MacArthur charged that the church has been taken over by a false gospel. Is he right?
Why do you call Lordship Salvation a false Gospel? This is the first I've ever heard anyone state this. I looked up some references and I don't understand?
Rick
< Message edited by Rick4Him -- 7/6/2007 4:36:40 PM >
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 4:43:15 PM
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crankius
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Lordship Salvation taken too far devalues the blood of Christ.
The concept of Lordship Salvation is sometimes taken so far that believers are questioning their salvation. Assurance is therefore given more in man’s abilities (to prove their salvation) than in the blood of Christ. Great lack of grace, from my perspective.
Note--I'm not calling MacArthur a false teacher--just want to be clear on that. He has taught many things well.
I've just seen the fruit of his seminary and some of his teachings, and they lacked grace.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 6:14:10 PM
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crankius
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In case anyone is interested, there is a discussion here on Lordship Salvation.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 6:50:57 PM
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humbleinspirit
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From my experience, John MaCarther doesn't show grace but rather judgementalism instead. I take issue with a lot of his "oppinions."
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 7:14:18 PM
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lw9
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quote:
Crankius: In case anyone is interested, there is a discussion here on Lordship Salvation.
Hey, thanks Crankius! That does help and I look forward to seeing how that discussion is going. I have heard of MacArthur, but have never heard him preach and I don't know what his doctrine is. I've only really heard good reports about him until now. I would like to know what 'Lordship Salvation' is, so if I have time I will study up on it. I did just ran across something from MacArthur's 'Questions & Answers' that I thought hit right on the mark:
"What I am saying is that when we present a shallow gospel, we don’t prevent the elect from getting saved; we make people think they’re saved who aren’t. That’s the issue. Do you see the distinction? That’s the issue. And so what we have-just imagine this now!-what we have then are a lot of people who think they’re Christians. And we have a lot of churches that are run by congregational rule, which means that a lot of churches are being run by what? Non-Christians! That’s a frightening reality. I’m quite sure there are Christian organizations being operated by non-Christians."
I completely agree with that, and I appreciate his honesty and insight into that particular problem. As for the rest of his beliefs... I will just have to study and see.
quote:
humbleinspirit: From my experience, John MaCarther doesn't show grace but rather judgementalism instead. I take issue with a lot of his "oppinions."
Examples???
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 7:22:11 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Well lets see, there was the time he went on a tangent about kids misbehaving in school and said that they need to behave, not take Ritalin. Thats just the tip of the ice berg.
Basically it comes down to this. Who is he to decide who is saved or not?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 7:56:21 PM
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humbleinspirit
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FWIW, I am listening to John MaCarther online right now. I do agree with some of his points at times, just not all of them. The sermon that I am listening to does sound graceful (which is rare of him.)
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 7:57:31 PM
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lw9
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quote:
humbleinspirit: Well lets see, there was the time he went on a tangent about kids misbehaving in school and said that they need to behave, not take Ritalin. Thats just the tip of the ice berg.
Errr... are you saying that children needing to behave is a bad thing? Or that children are no longer able to behave without drugs?
This probably isn't going to gain me any friends, but it's been my position for years that American children are being medicated for non-existent disorders. While there may be a few who actually do have such a thing as ADD, I don't for a minute believe that *suddenly* this relatively new disorder of plague-like proportions is sweeping across the land for no reason. Instead, I believe the behavioral problems we're seeing in children is mostly the product of the modern environment: high sugar diets, hours upon hours spent in front of the TV and video games, the expectation of instant gratification, and abysmally bad parenting are all working together to create this new phenomenon. I've seen examples of this firsthand, and rather than change themselves, I've watched parents turn to the easy way out: Ritalin.
I would of course have to see exactly what he said on this topic in context, but yeah... I'm thinking I might really like this MacArthur guy! 
< Message edited by lw9 -- 7/6/2007 8:00:24 PM >
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:04:33 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
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While I agree that kids now needing Ritalin is not a ground sweeping thing and that lots more get medicated than should be. I do not believe for one minute that all kids do not need it. Now John has said himself that he didn't behave while in school and needed to. I just think the answer is not as simple as that.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:09:17 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
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I think that it is only fair to link both his website and where you can hear his sermons online as well:
Grace To You Website
Grace To You Broadcast
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:27:11 PM
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tony.nz
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First time I have come across the terms "Lordship Salvation" and "Freegrace POV" - I think I know where they are coming from, but would need to find out more about what their proponants say before having an opinion.
But, who are any of us to say who is saved? I think though that it is a different thing from having an opinion on the requirements of salvation, to claiming knowledge of whether a particular person is saved. If not, then we all stand accused of deciding who is saved, or not.
For example, I do not believe that the belief systems of Mormons or JW's meet the requirements for salvation, and when I hear them expouse those opinions, I tend to the judgment that the particular person is not saved. That however is my opinion, and I have to acknowledge that the only opinion that matters, is Christ's. Who among us however, does not have their own opinions? And, therefore, who among us is not accused by your standards of deciding who is saved and who is not?
Or is it simply, that your views on the requirements for salvation differ slightly from John McArthur's views?
And, should he not then be commended for advancing his view, so that if perchance he is correct, that any of us who think we are saved but are not, have the chance to put things right? Have we not ourselves done this with people of other faiths, and of none? Where is grace or mercy found in those who hide their own view, in fear of being considered "judgmental"?
Can you give any particular examples where John McArthur has said that a particular person is not saved, so that we can judge for ourselves the context in which this is said?
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:30:28 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
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He gives a broad-brush that those who go to certain churches or movements are not saved. Yes, I believe that you will know Christians by their fruits. Its the general attitude that MaCarther has that I take issue with.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:32:27 PM
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crankius
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Tony,
I think you would have to read his writings about Lordship Salvation to really get a better idea of what it all means.
The other thread specifically about Lordship Salvation will be good for gaining further understanding.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:47:24 PM
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Dubya
Posts: 1019
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From: Texas
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Shortly after MacArthur published "The Gospel According to Jesus", Charles Ryrie published "So Great Salvation" which takes issue with what appears to be MacArthur's "Lordship Salvation".
The two authors debated their points of view, I believe, in Christianity Today.
I read both books and enjoyed them both. I think MacArthur makes some very good points. I don't think he is judgeing anyone but, rather, is urging us to judge ourselves. Ryrie does a better job, in my opinion, of separating justification from sanctification.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 8:50:12 PM
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humbleinspirit
Posts: 18075
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I have a Ryrie Study Bible. I find it very helpful.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/6/2007 10:56:15 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
For example, I do not believe that the belief systems of Mormons or JW's meet the requirements for salvation, and when I hear them expouse those opinions, I tend to the judgment that the particular person is not saved. That however is my opinion, and I have to acknowledge that the only opinion that matters, is Christ's
What criteria do you use to form your opinions? How does one know the follower of the JW and Mormon faith are NOT saved? How do we know it is not opinion but God's.
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RE: John MacArthur - 7/7/2007 9:52:59 AM
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crankius
Posts: 4467
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When it comes to Mormon theology, we can know that they are not saved because they do not believe in the real Christ.
Central to salvation MUST BE Christ. This is made clear in scripture. There is no other way for salvation.
What lordship salvation does is actually a bit close to Mormon theology in the sense that it wants people to make certain they are saved by checking their works. If their works are not lining up, then the Lordship people say you should question your salvation. When this plays out in a church fellowship, suddenly people are looking at the works of others and then questioning their salvation, or at least telling those people that they should question their salvation. It can be quite ugly.
_____________________________
Do not be overly righteous, Nor be overly wise: Why should you destroy yourself?
Ecclesiastes 7:16
SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY
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