|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/23/2008 10:15:39 PM
|
|
|
alyah155
Posts: 14
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline
|
Very Sad that Christians don't study more....Islam teaches Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam points to Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam teaches to live and behave as Jesus did (not what Paul teaches) and as for 666?? LOL it has been proven to actually be 616 so now everyone needs to re-write their beliefs.....sorry.
An ancient manuscript which predates all other greek manuscripts has been found and the number in revelations is actually 616.
Also, since all of Christianity teach to do what Jesus did? How come you don't? You don't pray like Jesus did, or pray to God like Jesus did, nor clean before prayer like Jesus did, nor observe foods like Jesus did, how come? So how come Christians don't study more?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/23/2008 11:10:44 PM
|
|
|
bob97
Posts: 1892
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
|
quote:
Very Sad that Christians don't study more....Islam teaches Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam points to Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam teaches to live and behave as Jesus did (not what Paul teaches) and as for 666?? LOL it has been proven to actually be 616 so now everyone needs to re-write their beliefs.....sorry.
I think you will also find that Islam teaches that Christ is not the Son of God...I don't really think that is teaching about Messiah Yeshua...do you?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/27/2008 10:52:37 PM
|
|
|
fallenstar
Posts: 129
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
|
Yes, I believe you are correct. 666 is NOT the symbol for Satan. The actual symbol for Satan is a converted pentagram behind a goat's head. If you really insist on proving me wrong, google the church of Satan on images and I'm sure you'll ethier get a picture of the symbol, or Anton Lavey, the founder of COS. 666 has been publisized too much, and too many people have knowledge of it for it to be effective.
I'm not saying the inverted pentagram is a symbol for evil, just a symbol for Satan. Anyways, I liked the post, good point and well explained information.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/28/2008 3:33:48 AM
|
|
|
Marcus.
Posts: 1304
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
alyah155 said in post 126
quote:
An ancient manuscript which predates all other greek manuscripts has been found and the number in revelations is actually 616.
I've been reading an archeology magazine for the last year or two. I didn't hear about that. Do you have a link to the source by chance? Was it a Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic manuscript? Aramaic seems to be very rare. I haven't read about much discovered written in that language.
Thanks
ps
We had a short thread on this about a year ago. One of our divinity students explained it. I remember him saying that it is the numeric value of the Hebrew letters of the persons name. It doesn't work with other languages. So the name would have to be transliterated into Hebrew.
It was an easy to follow description. I'm sure the thread has been purged by now though.
< Message edited by Marcus. -- 2/28/2008 3:40:49 AM >
_____________________________
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.
Hosea Project Care Net
Google
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/28/2008 8:02:12 AM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
Yes, I believe you are correct. 666 is NOT the symbol for Satan. The actual symbol for Satan is a converted pentagram behind a goat's head. If you really insist on proving me wrong, google the church of Satan on images and I'm sure you'll ethier get a picture of the symbol, or Anton Lavey, the founder of COS. 666 has been publisized too much, and too many people have knowledge of it for it to be effective.
I'm not saying the inverted pentagram is a symbol for evil, just a symbol for Satan. Anyways, I liked the post, good point and well explained information.
Scripture says satan is a dragon not a beast; Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man (the false prophet muhammed) and that it is the number of the beast. In Scripture a beast is a kingdom (Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...") the beast or kingdom who's number is 666 is the spiritual kingdom of Islam.
If you are interested in who claims this number look at these islamic websites, turn your speakers on first:
http://www.66619.org/666.htm
http://www.66619.org/
Unfortunately the spiritual kingdom whose number is 666 worships satan as this verse tells us: Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:..."
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/28/2008 10:43:00 PM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 353
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
Yes, I believe you are correct. 666 is NOT the symbol for Satan. The actual symbol for Satan is a converted pentagram behind a goat's head. If you really insist on proving me wrong, google the church of Satan on images and I'm sure you'll ethier get a picture of the symbol, or Anton Lavey, the founder of COS. 666 has been publisized too much, and too many people have knowledge of it for it to be effective.
I'm not saying the inverted pentagram is a symbol for evil, just a symbol for Satan. Anyways, I liked the post, good point and well explained information.
Scripture says satan is a dragon not a beast; Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man (the false prophet muhammed) and that it is the number of the beast. In Scripture a beast is a kingdom (Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...") the beast or kingdom who's number is 666 is the spiritual kingdom of Islam.
If you are interested in who claims this number look at these islamic websites, turn your speakers on first:
http://www.66619.org/666.htm
http://www.66619.org/
Unfortunately the spiritual kingdom whose number is 666 worships satan as this verse tells us: Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:..."
Shalom, Midwest.
Ha! Ha! Well, just what do you think a "beast" is anyway? Strictly speaking, it's a "wild animal." Wild animals can include lizards (which is what "drakoon," transliterated as "dragon," means)!
Doesn't anyone read anymore? Doesn't it say that the number of the beast is the number of a MAN? That's not "Satan"!
Now, I used to be an old-style COBOL programmer and I can tell you that "666" is alive and well already. It's not stamped on our hands or on our foreheads, yet, but it could happen soon.
To convert a decimal number into a binary number, simply keep dividing the number by two. If it has a remainder, record a "1"; if it has no remainder, record a "0". Follow the math:
666 / 2 = 333 R 0
333 / 2 = 166 R 1
166 / 2 = 83 R 0
83 / 2 = 41 R 1
41 / 2 = 20 R 1
20 / 2 = 10 R 0
10 / 2 = 5 R 0
5 / 2 = 2 R 1
2 / 2 = 1 R 0
1 / 2 = 0 R 1
Thus, the binary representation of 666 is 1010011010. In bar coded decimal, the ones are given black bars and the zeroes are given white bars, all of the same width. You will find that the bar code for 666 is
represented as this:
[* * ** * ] where the black bars are represented as asterisks ("*").
Although it's not quite universally standardized, yet, you will find this as the initialization code for MOST UPC (Universal Product Code) bar codes on products you will find in a store! I just picked up three items off of my dining room table (salt, Parmesan cheese, and steak sauce) and it was on all three of them. (They are the initialization bars on the left hand side, usually longer than the ones over the numbers we can read at the bottom of the bar code.)
We don't have to go strange in our thoughts or attack this person or another or this religion or another; the foundation for the mark is already here!
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/29/2008 12:46:15 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: fallenstar
Yes, I believe you are correct. 666 is NOT the symbol for Satan. The actual symbol for Satan is a converted pentagram behind a goat's head. If you really insist on proving me wrong, google the church of Satan on images and I'm sure you'll ethier get a picture of the symbol, or Anton Lavey, the founder of COS. 666 has been publisized too much, and too many people have knowledge of it for it to be effective.
I'm not saying the inverted pentagram is a symbol for evil, just a symbol for Satan. Anyways, I liked the post, good point and well explained information.
Scripture says satan is a dragon not a beast; Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man (the false prophet muhammed) and that it is the number of the beast. In Scripture a beast is a kingdom (Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...") the beast or kingdom who's number is 666 is the spiritual kingdom of Islam.
If you are interested in who claims this number look at these islamic websites, turn your speakers on first:
http://www.66619.org/666.htm
http://www.66619.org/
Unfortunately the spiritual kingdom whose number is 666 worships satan as this verse tells us: Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:..."
Shalom, Midwest.
Ha! Ha! Well, just what do you think a "beast" is anyway? Strictly speaking, it's a "wild animal." Wild animals can include lizards (which is what "drakoon," transliterated as "dragon," means)!
Surely you are not saying that the dragon/satan and the beast/kingdom are the same? If so then please explain why would the dragon give the beast power and authority?
Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast..." I used this same quote from Rev in my post and this verse clearly demonstrates that the dragon/ satan and the beast/kingdom are not the same. If the beast were satan then why would the dragon/satan give power to himself? Just my humble opinion but if the dragon and beast are both satan that verse would not make sense. JMHO but I believe in letting the Bible define itself. Scripture tells us a dargon is satan: Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,..." Scripture also tells us a beast is a kingdom; Dan 7:23 Thus he said, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth..." dragon/satan and beast/kingdom are not the same.
quote:
Doesn't anyone read anymore? Doesn't it say that the number of the beast is the number of a MAN? That's not "Satan"!
Why are you asking "Doesn't anyone read anymore?' Correct me if I am misunderstanding you here, but it almost looks as if you are asking if the beast and man are not satan (if so a question mark would have been more appropriate then an exclamation point.) If you are saying the beast is not satan then I agree as I have demonstrated above.
quote:
Now, I used to be an old-style COBOL programmer and I can tell you that "666" is alive and well already. It's not stamped on our hands or on our foreheads, yet, but it could happen soon.
To convert a decimal number into a binary number, simply keep dividing the number by two. If it has a remainder, record a "1"; if it has no remainder, record a "0". Follow the math:
666 / 2 = 333 R 0
333 / 2 = 166 R 1
166 / 2 = 83 R 0
83 / 2 = 41 R 1
41 / 2 = 20 R 1
20 / 2 = 10 R 0
10 / 2 = 5 R 0
5 / 2 = 2 R 1
2 / 2 = 1 R 0
1 / 2 = 0 R 1
Thus, the binary representation of 666 is 1010011010. In bar coded decimal, the ones are given black bars and the zeroes are given white bars, all of the same width. You will find that the bar code for 666 is
represented as this:
[* * ** * ] where the black bars are represented as asterisks ("*").
Although it's not quite universally standardized, yet, you will find this as the initialization code for MOST UPC (Universal Product Code) bar codes on products you will find in a store! I just picked up three items off of my dining room table (salt, Parmesan cheese, and steak sauce) and it was on all three of them. (They are the initialization bars on the left hand side, usually longer than the ones over the numbers we can read at the bottom of the bar code.)
What relevence does this have, nothing in Scripture says anything about bar codes? What reason do you have to believe barcodes and 666 go together? Are you saying that the mark of the beast will be a bar code representing 666?
quote:
We don't have to go strange in our thoughts or attack this person or another or this religion or another;
The muslims themselves openly claim the number 666 as the websites I linked to demonstrated. Here are the links to those islamic websites again (turn your speakers on) http://www.66619.org/666.htm or http://www.66619.org/
The quran says: "They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (The Qur'an, 5:88-92)".
Islam claims the number 666 and denies that Jesus is the Christ. Are you saying that they are not an antichrist religion?
I never said to attack them, but if we know that islam is a religion of antichrists shouldn't we at least acknowledge the truth, so we can do something about it. Should we turn a blind eye in an effort to be politically correct or should we accept what they are, and resign ourselves to do our duty as Christians and become effective witnesses to that huge group of people?
Please show me where I attacked them? Is telling the truth an attack?
quote:
the foundation for the mark is already here!
Retrobyter
The mark has been in the world a long time, but nothing in Scripture says it is a barcode representing 666, or have I misunderstood what you are trying to say.
< Message edited by Midwest -- 2/29/2008 1:38:42 PM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/29/2008 1:27:38 PM
|
|
|
TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
|
This is quite hilarious. Trying to take what one sect of Islam says and apply it to the Bible. Hmmm....can we get back to the Bible, please.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 2/29/2008 2:58:40 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Greetings! Please note that the Apostles of Christ walked with Him directly during His earthly ministry and Paul walked with Him by faith after pentecost of the Holy Spirit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: alyah155
Very Sad that Christians don't study more....Islam teaches Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam points to Jesus, more than the Bible, Islam teaches to live and behave as Jesus did (not what Paul teaches) and as for 666?? LOL it has been proven to actually be 616 so now everyone needs to re-write their beliefs.....sorry.
An ancient manuscript which predates all other greek manuscripts has been found and the number in revelations is actually 616.
Also, since all of Christianity teach to do what Jesus did? How come you don't? You don't pray like Jesus did, or pray to God like Jesus did, nor clean before prayer like Jesus did, nor observe foods like Jesus did, how come? So how come Christians don't study more?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/1/2008 1:58:06 AM
|
|
|
Retrobyter
Posts: 353
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
Scripture says satan is a dragon not a beast; Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man (the false prophet muhammed) and that it is the number of the beast. In Scripture a beast is a kingdom (Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...") the beast or kingdom who's number is 666 is the spiritual kingdom of Islam.
If you are interested in who claims this number look at these islamic websites, turn your speakers on first:
http://www.66619.org/666.htm
http://www.66619.org/
Unfortunately the spiritual kingdom whose number is 666 worships satan as this verse tells us: Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:..."
Shalom, Midwest.
Ha! Ha! Well, just what do you think a "beast" is anyway? Strictly speaking, it's a "wild animal." Wild animals can include lizards (which is what "drakoon," transliterated as "dragon," means)!
Surely you are not saying that the dragon/satan and the beast/kingdom are the same? If so then please explain why would the dragon give the beast power and authority?
Rev 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast..." I used this same quote from Rev in my post and this verse clearly demonstrates that the dragon/ satan and the beast/kingdom are not the same. If the beast were satan then why would the dragon/satan give power to himself? Just my humble opinion but if the dragon and beast are both satan that verse would not make sense. JMHO but I believe in letting the Bible define itself. Scripture tells us a dargon is satan: Rev 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,..." Scripture also tells us a beast is a kingdom; Dan 7:23 Thus he said, "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth..." dragon/satan and beast/kingdom are not the same.
quote:
Doesn't anyone read anymore? Doesn't it say that the number of the beast is the number of a MAN? That's not "Satan"!
Why are you asking "Doesn't anyone read anymore?' Correct me if I am misunderstanding you here, but it almost looks as if you are asking if the beast and man are not satan (if so a question mark would have been more appropriate then an exclamation point.) If you are saying the beast is not satan then I agree as I have demonstrated above.
quote:
Now, I used to be an old-style COBOL programmer and I can tell you that "666" is alive and well already. It's not stamped on our hands or on our foreheads, yet, but it could happen soon.
To convert a decimal number into a binary number, simply keep dividing the number by two. If it has a remainder, record a "1"; if it has no remainder, record a "0". Follow the math:
666 / 2 = 333 R 0
333 / 2 = 166 R 1
166 / 2 = 83 R 0
83 / 2 = 41 R 1
41 / 2 = 20 R 1
20 / 2 = 10 R 0
10 / 2 = 5 R 0
5 / 2 = 2 R 1
2 / 2 = 1 R 0
1 / 2 = 0 R 1
Thus, the binary representation of 666 is 1010011010. In bar coded decimal, the ones are given black bars and the zeroes are given white bars, all of the same width. You will find that the bar code for 666 is
represented as this:
[* * ** * ] where the black bars are represented as asterisks ("*").
Although it's not quite universally standardized, yet, you will find this as the initialization code for MOST UPC (Universal Product Code) bar codes on products you will find in a store! I just picked up three items off of my dining room table (salt, Parmesan cheese, and steak sauce) and it was on all three of them. (They are the initialization bars on the left hand side, usually longer than the ones over the numbers we can read at the bottom of the bar code.)
What relevence does this have, nothing in Scripture says anything about bar codes? What reason do you have to believe barcodes and 666 go together? Are you saying that the mark of the beast will be a bar code representing 666?
quote:
We don't have to go strange in our thoughts or attack this person or another or this religion or another;
The muslims themselves openly claim the number 666 as the websites I linked to demonstrated. Here are the links to those islamic websites again (turn your speakers on) http://www.66619.org/666.htm or http://www.66619.org/
The quran says: "They say: "the most gracious has betaken a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it in the skies are about to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they attributed a son to the Most Gracious, for it is not consonant with the majesty of the Most Gracious that he should beget a son. (The Qur'an, 5:88-92)".
Islam claims the number 666 and denies that Jesus is the Christ. Are you saying that they are not an antichrist religion?
I never said to attack them, but if we know that islam is a religion of antichrists shouldn't we at least acknowledge the truth, so we can do something about it. Should we turn a blind eye in an effort to be politically correct or should we accept what they are, and resign ourselves to do our duty as Christians and become effective witnesses to that huge group of people?
Please show me where I attacked them? Is telling the truth an attack?
quote:
the foundation for the mark is already here!
Retrobyter
The mark has been in the world a long time, but nothing in Scripture says it is a barcode representing 666, or have I misunderstood what you are trying to say.
Shabbat shalom, Midwest.
Let's do this in order:
1. You said, "Satan is a dragon not a beast." What I was laughing at is, since "dragon" means "lizard" and "beast" means "wild animal," then what you I read was "Satan is a lizard not a wild animal." But, isn't a lizard a wild animal? That's all I was saying.
2. Note in Rev. 12:9 that it's "the dragon was that original snake called the Devil (Greek: diabolos meaning "traducer" or "blamer") and Satan (Hebrew for "enemy"). NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Isn't it interesting that he wasn't "Satan" first? He was "the dragon, the original snake" first!
3. It does NOT say that 666 was the number of Muhammed in Rev. 13:18! YOU added that!
4. Not always "a beast is a kingdom." While it may have been so in Dan. 7:23, here in Rev. 13:18, since 666 is "the number of a man" and 666 is "the number of the beast," then it follows that the beast is a MAN!
5. I did look at the site; frankly, I'm not impressed with an Islamic form of Cabalism. So what? What do I care what the Quran says? It's just another book to me! It is NOT inspired, and beyond what it teaches that Islam believes, it means nothing to me.
6. When I asked "Doesn't anyone read anymore?" didn't you notice that I said that the number of the beast is the number of a MAN? THAT'S why it can't be SATAN'S number...unless you think Satan is a MAN! That's all I meant on that point. You've basically already agreed.
7. In answer to your questions about bar codes, it has relevance because of verse 17: people won't be able to buy or sell without that number! All I'm saying it that, with bar codes on the products, the system is already in place! All they'd have to do is put "bar codes" on people as well! I believe that 666 and bar codes go together because of the math above and because you can find this initialization code on MOST bar codes now! Here, all I'm saying is that the MECHANISM is already in place, and yes, the mark of the beast MAY be a bar code (or something similar) stamped on a person's forehead or hand to allow them to buy or sell products.
The passage that talks about the "mark of the beast" is Rev. 13:11-18 with mentions in Rev. 14:9-11; 15:2; 16:2; 19:20; and 20:4. Here's Rev. 13:11-18:
Rev 13:11-18
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
KJV
A "score" is 20, btw. Thus, threescore is 3 x 20 or 60.
Finally, as an aside note, you might be interested to learn that Bernard Silver and Norman Woodland first patented what became the UPC bar codes on Oct. 7, 1952. It was picked up by George Laurer in National Cash Register (NCR) and put in practice for retail chains in the late 60s and early 70s.
Retrobyter
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/1/2008 11:54:45 AM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Retrobyter
Shabbat shalom, Midwest.
Let's do this in order:
1. You said, "Satan is a dragon not a beast." What I was laughing at is, since "dragon" means "lizard" and "beast" means "wild animal," then what you I read was "Satan is a lizard not a wild animal." But, isn't a lizard a wild animal? That's all I was saying.
Maybe according to a dictionary but we were talking about the fact that in Rev 13 a satan is a dragon not a beast. The beast(imo) in Rev is a kingdom (or in your opinion man) Either way satan is not the beast, so what's your point? Why try to ridicule someone over something irrelevent to the discussion?
quote:
2. Note in Rev. 12:9 that it's "the dragon was that original snake called the Devil (Greek: diabolos meaning "traducer" or "blamer") and Satan (Hebrew for "enemy"). NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND! Isn't it interesting that he wasn't "Satan" first? He was "the dragon, the original snake" first!
The point was according to Scripture satan is a dragon, according to Scripture a beast is a kingdom(some beleive king). It does not matter if he was a serpent first or not. What matters is in Rev we know a dragon is satan. So how is this relevent? it isn't.
quote:
3. It does NOT say that 666 was the number of Muhammed in Rev. 13:18! YOU added that!
This is what I said in the original POST
"Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man (the false prophet muhammed) and that it is the number of the beast. In Scripture a beast is a kingdom (Dan 7:23 "Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth...") the beast or kingdom who's number is 666 is the spiritual kingdom of Islam."
I added nothing to Scripture I quoted the verse and explained what I thought it meant. Reread the verse I quoted I did not add anything to the verse. Granted I did say the man whos number is 666 is the false prophet mohammed but that was in my explanation I did not add into the verse when I quoted it. So while I may have said it in my explanation I added nothing to the verse as you imply.
quote:
4. Not always "a beast is a kingdom." While it may have been so in Dan. 7:23, here in Rev. 13:18, since 666 is "the number of a man" and 666 is "the number of the beast," then it follows that the beast is a MAN!
Not necassarily it is quite possible that both a man and a beast can have the same number, nothing there automatically makes the man and beast the same. While it is possible, it is also quite possible that beast does mean kingdom and both a man and a kingdom bear the number. So we have a difference of opinion. JMHO but I believe the context supports beast being a kingdom instead of a man. If you beleive differently that is OK I just don't see it that way.
quote:
5. I did look at the site; frankly, I'm not impressed with an Islamic form of Cabalism. So what? What do I care what the Quran says? It's just another book to me! It is NOT inspired, and beyond what it teaches that Islam believes, it means nothing to me.
JMHO I beleive the fact that at least one branch of islam believes that 666 is the number of the false prophet mohammed and that the number is islams bears investigation. Especially when you consider there is also a sound hermeneutic study showing that islam is the leopard bear and lion beast (but that's a different topic if you are interested see this earlier THREAD )
quote:
6. When I asked "Doesn't anyone read anymore?" didn't you notice that I said that the number of the beast is the number of a MAN? THAT'S why it can't be SATAN'S number...unless you think Satan is a MAN! That's all I meant on that point.
Had you read my post you would have seen that my post was saying that 666 is the number of a man and of a beast not satan. Here allow me to quote myself from the post just before yours.(The one where you asked "doesn't anybody read anymore?"):
"The verse does not say 666 is satans number it does say it is the number of a man" Apparently you hadn't read my post or you would not be explaining to me that it is not satan' number. I did not say it was satan's number so no need to explain to me it is not satans number considering that is the point I had just made. So may I ask who is that doesn't read?
quote:
You've basically already agreed.
Yes, I had already said that the number was not satan's. before you posted explaining it wasn't satans number. So what was the point of your post telling me it wasn't satans number, when I had already said that?
quote:
7. In answer to your questions about bar codes, it has relevance because of verse 17: people won't be able to buy or sell without that number! All I'm saying it that, with bar codes on the products, the system is already in place! All they'd have to do is put "bar codes" on people as well! I believe that 666 and bar codes go together because of the math above and because you can find this initialization code on MOST bar codes now! Here, all I'm saying is that the MECHANISM is already in place, and yes, the mark of the beast MAY be a bar code (or something similar) stamped on a person's forehead or hand to allow them to buy or sell products.
The passage that talks about the "mark of the beast"
Why assume that the mark will be a barcode? There are many ways that one could be marked why limit it to a bar code nothing in Scripture does.
In your opinion it has relevence because you beleive the mark of the beast will be a physical mark that can be seen. (correct me if I have misunderstood your belief)
IMO I see absolutely no relevence because I don't think the mark will be a physical mark. JMHO but I think it might help if we look at other marks from the Bible. In 606BC, when the kingdom of Judah was about to fall, the prophet Ezekiel saw spiritual marks in a vision, He watched when an archangel said... "Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.... Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." (Excerpt from Eze9:4&6 Read them in their entirety HERE )
Later, the writer of Chronicles, Ezra, a historian and priest, wrote abou the same event, but he didn't see the mark:
2Ch 36:17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.
Notice the mark was seen in Ezekiels vision (spirit world) but in the material world Ezra did not see the marks.
According to the Bible aren't all Christians marked (sealed) by the Holy Spirit.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
I don't know about you but I haven't seen any of these marks or seals so it just seems to me that these marks are not physical but spiritual, so why would the mark of the beast be different and be physical? I'll admit it's possible but if we look at the marks in Scripture it just seems to make more sense (at least IMHO) that the mark is spiritual and not physical
quote:
Finally, as an aside note, you might be interested to learn that Bernard Silver and Norman Woodland first patented what became the UPC bar codes on Oct. 7, 1952. It was picked up by George Laurer in National Cash Register (NCR) and put in practice for retail chains in the late 60s and early 70s.
Retrobyter
If I was of the opinion that the bar code would have anything to do with the mark of the beast I might find it interesting, but I don't think barcodes have anything to do with the mark, so no it does not interest me.
_____________________________
God will never abolish His Torah; He merely sent His Son to COMPLETE it so we aren't FORCED to keep it! (It's still a good idea, however.)
< Message edited by Midwest -- 3/1/2008 12:09:07 PM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/4/2008 1:49:52 PM
|
|
|
thevoiceofone
Posts: 10
Joined: 3/3/2008
Status: offline
|
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/5/2008 2:18:22 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Greetings! Notice my posts: #123, #124, #133.
I am sure john williams and midwest are saying this, not me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: thevoiceofone
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/5/2008 7:59:48 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Greetings! Notice my posts: #123, #124, #133.
I am sure john williams and midwest are saying this, not me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: thevoiceofone
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
Prophetica please do not put words in my mouth. You may think you are sure I said that, but you are mistaken. If you are going to say someone said something then please make sure they said it! I did not say that nor is it my belief! (can't speak for John Williams but I doubt if he said it either.) If you are sure I said that then please post a link to where I said it.
(EDIT) If I am not mistaken the the quote in question was from teriwrist in post #: 106
< Message edited by Midwest -- 3/5/2008 8:32:04 PM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/5/2008 10:12:30 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
Greetings! In fact, you are saying that since you consider Mohammad to be a false prophet that he embodies the anti christ, when it is apparent that Mohammad is no longer in the physical realm and cannot, therefore, be the false prophet that is talked about in revelation. Instead, the prophet Abraham prophesied concerning the arabic peoples regarding how they would get restless and shake the yoke of their brother up off from their neck eventually. We see that this has happened in Judgment before with Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Media, and then Ottoman Empire that you are delineating upon.
In our current day, we see that the terrorist organizations have arisen in response to the restlessness prophecy and we have a martrydom issue mixed in with it and two arabic wars.
How can you doubt that the false worldly prophet messiah will institute through signs and wonders, as it is written, the mark of the beast which is the number of the name of the false worldly prophet messiah? This will happen is God's time, not ours. We see that the technology has arisen as a sign that the times will eventually come to pass in fulfillment of the Word spoken to John the Apostle and Daniel.
I believe that we are approaching the times of the fifth seal as recorded in revelation prophecy. As Israel gets the curse of the law and the prophets lifted from their people as it is written. I believe that Israel will turn to the Lord as it is written in the prophet and weep and morn for Him as for an only son. I believe that the temple must be set up again in fulfillment of the word spoken by the Apostle Paul and to Daniel. This does not mean that the end will come right away, but is a necessary preparatory sign of the times of the gentiles coming to their fulfillment in prophecy. Israel is to be raised in one day; but the Apostle says that a day to God is like a thousand years. Therefore, the Father still Sovereignly sets the times and the seasons in accordance with His Perfect Will. At this point, the ark of the covenant of God is where it should be, properly placed at the foundation cells of the temple mount. When the time comes, God will ordain for it to be rebuilt in fulfillment of the promises to the people of Israel; even New Jerusalem Israel. May God Almighty richly bless His people to be lights and bless the nations.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
Greetings! Notice my posts: #123, #124, #133.
I am sure john williams and midwest are saying this, not me.
quote:
ORIGINAL: thevoiceofone
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
Prophetica please do not put words in my mouth. You may think you are sure I said that, but you are mistaken. If you are going to say someone said something then please make sure they said it! I did not say that nor is it my belief! (can't speak for John Williams but I doubt if he said it either.) If you are sure I said that then please post a link to where I said it.
(EDIT) If I am not mistaken the the quote in question was from teriwrist in post #: 106
< Message edited by prophetica -- 3/6/2008 12:18:35 AM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/5/2008 11:00:38 PM
|
|
|
Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: thevoiceofone
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
Greetings! Notice my posts: #123, #124, #133.
I am sure john williams and midwest are saying this, not me.
Prophetica please do not put words in my mouth. You may think you are sure I said that, but you are mistaken. If you are going to say someone said something then please make sure they said it! I did not say that nor is it my belief! (can't speak for John Williams but I doubt if he said it either.) If you are sure I said that then please post a link to where I said it.
(EDIT) If I am not mistaken the the quote in question was from teriwrist in post #: 106
Greetings! In fact, you are saying that since you consider Mohammad to be a false prophet that he embodies the anti christ, when it is apparent that Mohammad is no longer in the physical realm and cannot, therefore, be the false prophet that is talked about in revelation.
Prophetica I have clearly shown that the quote in question was made by some one else please do not say I said something I did not say. Why are you making false statements about what I have said? No need to twist what John or I have said in order to blame a quote by teriwrist on me. Obviously you have not read either mine or teriwrists posts are you would see that we disagree. Please quit making false statements about what I have said and blaming me for something someone else said.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
|
|
|
|
|
RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 3/9/2008 11:47:26 PM
|
|
|
cybrjewls
Posts: 1479
Status: offline
|
These things are the end for HaSatan's kingdoms rule on earth and the beginning of the earthly rule by Jesus Christ at Jerusalem for a thousand years as it is written. Then Satan will be released to deceive the nations and defeated at Jerusalem by fire from heaven that will destroy all the armies gathered against her.
Who are we to worry about the end of Satan's princedom in the world? Are we the people of the New Jerusalem, or of the old order of fallen Babylon that we should not want Jesus to come. For it is written that The Spirit and The Bride say 'Come Lord Jesus' Come quickly.
We are not those who adhere to only a nationalism system of thinking where Jesus is not our King, but some worldly nation leader instead. For didn't those who crucified Him say, "We have no king but Ceasar'? But God alone reigns supreme over the nations in righteous Judgment (decisions) in His court does He issue edicts that are profoundly powerful and wonderful to experience. To the Glory of God in Heaven forever, Amen and Amen. For it is written: there are many folds, but one God reigns over them all. And there will be One Shepherd, and One Flock someday when He brings them together.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
quote:
ORIGINAL: prophetica
quote:
ORIGINAL: thevoiceofone
I notice in the quote from prophetica that was itself quoted from else where what appears to be error.
Here is an excerpt from the post above, "I consider the False Prophet is possibily the False Prophets of any of man's Man Made Religions ..."
It has always been my assumption that the 'AC' and the false prophet are portrayed in the scripture as singular and individuals who are leaders of the final beast empire. Thus to say that 'the' false prophet singular actually means false prophets plural in the context of the book of Revelation is dangerous and unneeded.
Greetings! Notice my posts: #123, #124, | | |
Forum Tools
Printable Version
