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666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 3:51:29 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
"In the name of Allah" = Bismillah = 666
I thought I had posted this in this forum. Please let me know if it is a redundant thread.
I don't know why the photo links don't work but you click on the links to them.
On the Zola Levitt program, Walid Shoebat, http://www.shoebat.com/ a former PLO terrorist now Christian evangelist, said that when he saw the Greek symbol that is translated in the Bible as 666, he immediately read it as the Arabic character “bismillah” which means "in the name of Allah." For the audio visit http://www.levitt.tv/ and scroll down to section "Age of Terror", and then "Mark of the Beast", to view the interview. You can scroll the Real Player to the 12 minute mark where the interview with Walid Shoebat begins.
Below (left) are photos of Greek symbols translated in the Bible as 666, from Free Jesus.net: http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5396 The gold symbol (bottom and right) is Arabic for "Allah" or "in the name of Allah" when turned and mirrored. Additionally, crossed swords are a symbol for Islam. So in 666 we find both "Islam" and "in the name of Allah".
[image]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/10079040.jpg[/image]
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/10079040.jpg
In the Muslim's words:
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm
"The number 666 is highly publicized all over the world and it is associated with evil and danger.
However, it is not what it seems. It was a Satanic trick.
The trick was to prevent the people approaching the 666.
Satan knew that the 666 is the book of GOD and the people should be kept away from it.
According to his plan, he placed a bad image to the number 666."
"The number 666 mentioned in the book of Revelation 13:18 is a part of a satanic scheme to hypnotise the minds of Christians. It is intended to cast fear and evil.
The reason is to create the negative prejudice in the minds of the people when they witness the number 666, the truth.
The truth is that This Quran is the 666 , The Book from The Lord of the Universe."
"The First Sura in the Quran, 666, is Praise. This sura is the gift of GOD to us to establish Contact with Him through our daily Contact Prayers. "
If you've got your sound on this link will likely make the hair stand up on the back of your neck: http://www.66619.org/
I don't believe the mark needs to be physical but.... interesting article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1890541.stm
[image]http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538287_ashura_lebanon_ap300.jpg[/image]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538287_ashura_lebanon_ap300.jpg
[image]http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538306_ashura_boy_ap150.jpg[/image]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538306_ashura_boy_ap150.jpg
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [Islamic empire] and his image, [second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad] and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig24.gif[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig24.gif
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig23.gif[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig23.gif
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/mark.jpg[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/mark.jpg
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
This 666 connection is, however, just one minor component of Bible prophecy pointing to the Middle Eastern Islamic empire as being, geographically, the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13.
The seat of Islam today, Iraq, Iran, and Syria/Lebanon occupies the same geographical region as Daniel's successive lion, bear, and leopard kingdom "beasts" (Babylon, Medo-Pursia, Greece)
[image]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/077f42d0.png[/image]
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/077f42d0.png
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: [Islamic Empire] for it is the number of a man; [the prophet Mohammed] and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. [666]
Is the Lord showing Christians, Jews and Muslims through this 666 connection, which "man" and "beast" carries this number, as we now find ourselves in Daniel's "time of the end"?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them [Muslims] was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast [Islamic empire] and the false prophet [Mohammed] [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/9/2007 3:54:52 PM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 4:09:55 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
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All wrong. All wrong. All wrong. 
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 4:38:10 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/9/2007 4:41:22 PM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 6:12:20 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
I was not impressed by the pictures. If one rotates them and rubs some oil on the computer screen, it works better. You seem to be suggesting that if you saw the word GOD, for example, mirrored and stood on end you wouldn't recognize it. And I would guess that the more highly complicated symbol for Islam, would be even more readily identifiable when treated the same way. But it wasn't I raised as a Muslim like Walid Shoebat, that made the identification. quote:
ORIGINAL: cow257
Whether he used to be a terrorist is irrelevant. It is either true or not.
Why not go for a little substance and comment on the verse quoted then? What is a beast?
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/9/2007 7:18:52 PM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 9:50:23 PM
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warrior5181
Posts: 86
Joined: 2/7/2007
From: North Georgia
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Greetings John -
If you'll look closer in scripture, you'll see that there is a spiritual significance to all biblical numbers.
Six is the number associated with man-kind. Man was created on the sixth day, man works for six days, we measure time in numbers divisble by six etc etc etc.......
Rev tells us that no one will be able to trade unless they have the mark....The mark will be in the forehead or on the hand.
To have the mark of the beast in your forehead simply means you have deceived into believing the many false doctrines created by man, as opposed to believing in the true word of God....If you have the mark on your hand, this means your hands simply do the work of man and/or satan as opposed to the work of God.
_____________________________
By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics be called the will of god. Holiness is in right action, and courage on behalf of those who cannot defend themselves. What god desires is in your heart.
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/9/2007 11:42:57 PM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 283
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Ottawa
Status: offline
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It is always important to try to understand the context of Biblical verses and not just look for coincidences.
quote:
ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
"In the name of Allah" = Bismillah = 666
"Allah" is simply Arabic for "God." Palestinian and Arab Christians, for example, also worship "Allah."
quote:
On the Zola Levitt program, Walid Shoebat, http://www.shoebat.com/ a former PLO terrorist now Christian evangelist, said that when he saw the Greek symbol that is translated in the Bible as 666, he immediately read it as the Arabic character “bismillah” which means "in the name of Allah." For the audio visit http://www.levitt.tv/ and scroll down to section "Age of Terror", and then "Mark of the Beast", to view the interview. You can scroll the Real Player to the 12 minute mark where the interview with Walid Shoebat begins.
With respect to Wwalid, I'm not conviced. Sure, if you take the Arabic for "Allah," flip it 90 degrees, then it looks like one of the "6" marks from Revelation. But what about the other two? This would be a very odd way for John to make a reference to the Muslim God, if that's what he was getting at. Plus, the Bible says it's a NUMBER that stands for a PERSON. Allah is neither.
quote:
In the Muslim's words:
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm
This page is an interesting example of extremely twisted logic. A few paragraphs down, it appears to claim that the World Wide Web is represented by 666. It's then followed by a string of mathematical statements I can't get my head around which bear no obvious link whatsoever to the description of the use of 666 in the Bible.
quote:
I don't believe the mark needs to be physical but.... interesting article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1890541.stm
Those are Shi'ites, not Muslims generally. And their "mark" there doesn't seem to have anything to do either with 666, or with commerce, as described in Revelation.
quote:
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [Islamic empire] and his image, [second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad] and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
But he doesn't, at least given what you've described. That's a Shi'a tradition and it's not even all Shi'as at that. Take Iran, one of the leading revolutionary Shi'a governed countries - and, as the BBC article states, the bloodletting is forbidden there.
quote:
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Not sure where this is going. If you're saying the Muslim prayers are vain, well, they're not Christian, but this has no eschatological significance beyond that.
quote:
This 666 connection is, however, just one minor component of Bible prophecy pointing to the Middle Eastern Islamic empire as being, geographically, the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13.
The seat of Islam today, Iraq, Iran, and Syria/Lebanon occupies the same geographical region as Daniel's successive lion, bear, and leopard kingdom "beasts" (Babylon, Medo-Pursia, Greece)
It really doesn't at the moment. The heartland of Greece is hardly Muslim - it's about 95% nominally Christian, and about 1% Muslim. Plus, while Muslims may inhabit these areas, they're divided into quite a number of countries who, at present, are hardly a united bloc. Two of them, for example (Iran and Iraq), fought a devastating war during the 1980s and remain enemies.
quote:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: [Islamic Empire] for it is the number of a man; [the prophet Mohammed] and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. [666]
Is the Lord showing Christians, Jews and Muslims through this 666 connection, which "man" and "beast" carries this number, as we now find ourselves in Daniel's "time of the end"?
You haven't established the connection to Muhammad. You've claimed there's a connection to Allah, which I disagree with. These are two separate questions, since Allah simply means God.
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 6:30:46 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
It is always important to try to understand the context of Biblical verses and not just look for coincidences.
quote:
ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
"In the name of Allah" = Bismillah = 666
"Allah" is simply Arabic for "God." Palestinian and Arab Christians, for example, also worship "Allah."
Allah, the proper name they apply to their god, simply does not mean "I AM" in Arabic. Jews and Chtristians Father is YHWH (English/Hebrew Yahweh)
Exodus 3:13-14 And Moses said unto God, Behold, [when] I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What [is ] his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Some say the source of the name Allah is likely from the moon god idol which was one of the 360 idols worshipped in Mecca when Mohammed made his selection. Some say the roots of the name go back to idol worship at Baal. Any Christian that would call their God Allah is in serious error, although I am aware, as you, that some in the middle east do, through inexcusable ignorance. It's not like they don't have Exodus in their bibles. In the West we call Him God, but we are fully aware that this is not His proper name.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
On the Zola Levitt program, Walid Shoebat, http://www.shoebat.com/ a former PLO terrorist now Christian evangelist, said that when he saw the Greek symbol that is translated in the Bible as 666, he immediately read it as the Arabic character “bismillah” which means "in the name of Allah." For the audio visit http://www.levitt.tv/ and scroll down to section "Age of Terror", and then "Mark of the Beast", to view the interview. You can scroll the Real Player to the 12 minute mark where the interview with Walid Shoebat begins.
With respect to Wwalid, I'm not conviced.
Who would expect you to be. Folks come into these forums to promote doctrine. This likely isn't consistent with yours.
I post here for the one in a thousand that is lurking off the forum, that is Berean hearted enough to read a free book, that may do something other than advance their chosen doctrine.
That one person in a thousand that is simply willing to ask "What if the Lord meant...", rather than simply spewing the doctrine they were taught, that their pastor was taught before them.
Odd isn't it? A couple of thousand denominations and each one believing their's is correct. This in spite of the heresy that had already larded the church by the time John was writing Revelation chapter 2. Some think they even have their eschatological doctrine correct, that was penned long before the Lord likely unsealed the book of Daniel. Did Darby live in the "time of the end"? Did Lacunza or Ribera or Alcazar?
quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
Sure, if you take the Arabic for "Allah," flip it 90 degrees, then it looks like one of the "6" marks from Revelation. But what about the other two? This would be a very odd way for John to make a reference to the Muslim God, if that's what he was getting at. Plus, the Bible says it's a NUMBER that stands for a PERSON. Allah is neither.
That would be Mohammed. THE FALSE PROPHET.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast [Islamic empire]: for it is the number of a man;[their false prophet Mohammed] and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
But that doesn't fit your doctrine either, even though this specifically antichrist false prophet has led his minions of antichrists to perdition over 1300 years. quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
In the Muslim's words:
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm
This page is an interesting example of extremely twisted logic. A few paragraphs down, it appears to claim that the World Wide Web is represented by 666. It's then followed by a string of mathematical statements I can't get my head around which bear no obvious link whatsoever to the description of the use of 666 in the Bible.
Not my website. I believe it's some Turkish Muslims site. These are followers of a guy named Rashid (a U.S. Muslim), who advanced this mathematical "miracle". Interestingly he came up with it in 1968 just one year after the times of the Gentiles were fulfilled in Jerusalem. quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
I don't believe the mark needs to be physical but.... interesting article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1890541.stm
Those are Shi'ites, not Muslims generally. And their "mark" there doesn't seem to have anything to do either with 666, or with commerce, as described in Revelation.
I included that for the comic value. At least I thought the lady slicing up her kid's forehead and beating the blood out of it was funny. Didn't look like the kid thought so though.
I don't believe the mark is physical. I believe there are 1.5 billion Muslms marked 666 this very minute. quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [Islamic empire] and his image, [second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad] and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
But he doesn't, at least given what you've described.
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Do you have the seal of God in your forehead? Look in the mirror. Do you see it?
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
That's a Shi'a tradition and it's not even all Shi'as at that. Take Iran, one of the leading revolutionary Shi'a governed countries - and, as the BBC article states, the bloodletting is forbidden there.
quote:
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Not sure where this is going. If you're saying the Muslim prayers are vain, well, they're not Christian, but this has no eschatological significance beyond that.
quote:
This 666 connection is, however, just one minor component of Bible prophecy pointing to the Middle Eastern Islamic empire as being, geographically, the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13.
The seat of Islam today, Iraq, Iran, and Syria/Lebanon occupies the same geographical region as Daniel's successive lion, bear, and leopard kingdom "beasts" (Babylon, Medo-Pursia, Greece)
It really doesn't at the moment. The heartland of Greece is hardly Muslim
Daniel's leopard is about the geography of ancient Greece, not modern day Greece.
quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
- it's about 95% nominally Christian, and about 1% Muslim. Plus, while Muslims may inhabit these areas, they're divided into quite a number of countries who, at present, are hardly a united bloc.
Two of them, for example (Iran and Iraq), fought a devastating war during the 1980s and remain enemies.
Your defense of your preconceived notions prevent you from seeing any simple truth. If you could simply look at what is rather than trying to wring it through the filter of your doctrine, it would be a lot easier for you to understand.
Do you believe God's interest is in the borders that men lay out to divide nations? No. His interest is spiritual, isn't it? So what do we find if we think about it a little?
ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES AND SECTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE UNANIMOUSLY UNITED BEHIND THEIR ANTICHRIST FALSE PROPHET MOHAMMED, AND EACH AND EVERY MUSLIM IS FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST. quote:
ORIGINAL: fiat_lux
quote:
Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: [Islamic Empire] for it is the number of a man; [the prophet Mohammed] and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. [666]
Is the Lord showing Christians, Jews and Muslims through this 666 connection, which "man" and "beast" carries this number, as we now find ourselves in Daniel's "time of the end"?
You haven't established the connection to Muhammad. You've claimed there's a connection to Allah, which I disagree with. These are two separate questions, since Allah simply means God.
No connection between the term "false prophet", and Mohammed? Are you a Muslim? Mohammed and the LBL beast Islam?
Reread Rev chapter 13, but try using a proper definition of beast, instead of imagining a silver screen boogeyman this time through.
The seat of the leopard-bear-lion beast: Iran - Muslim 98%, Iraq - Muslim 97%, Syria - Muslim 90%
Other area countries log in at: Saudi Arabia 100%, Turkey 99% and Lybia 99% Muslim.
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 6:49:05 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
What else could I have said? You want to believe that Islam could be the anti-christ or whatever it is, so you post twisted scripture to do so. I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove from scripture that Islam is the anti-christ, Allah means 666, or whatever. It's a bunch of hooey and is just wrong. It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so.
P.S. I'm sorry if you're offended by my signature. I'll pray about changing to glorify God some more.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 7:01:04 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
What else could I have said? You want to believe that Islam could be the anti-christ or whatever it is, so you post twisted scripture to do so. I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove from scripture that Islam is the anti-christ, Allah means 666, or whatever. It's a bunch of hooey and is just wrong. It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so.
P.S. I'm sorry if you're offended by my signature. I'll pray about changing to glorify God some more.
But you couldn't even answer the simple question I asked about how a beast is defined, could you? Why? because it throws your doctrine right out the window, right out of the gate.
You could see the truth in the scripture, but it didn't fit your doctrine, did it?
So who's twisting scripture?
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/10/2007 7:46:19 AM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 8:31:40 AM
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Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
What else could I have said? You want to believe that Islam could be the anti-christ or whatever it is, so you post twisted scripture to do so. I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove from scripture that Islam is the anti-christ, Allah means 666, or whatever. It's a bunch of hooey and is just wrong. It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so.
P.S. I'm sorry if you're offended by my signature. I'll pray about changing to glorify God some more.
I thought we as Christians are supposed to love our enemy. Knowing who the enemy gives us the oppurtunity to love and pray for these poor lost people. If scripture tells us a group of people are the beast then I would beleive it because "2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: "
You said "It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so." Hating and not sharing the Gospel with them would not be doing as Christians are told to do and that is love our enemy. If we know who the beast is it makes it easier to target them with our love and witnesssing, hate is not the correct response to knowing the truth.
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 8:50:50 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
What else could I have said? You want to believe that Islam could be the anti-christ or whatever it is, so you post twisted scripture to do so. I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove from scripture that Islam is the anti-christ, Allah means 666, or whatever. It's a bunch of hooey and is just wrong. It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so.
P.S. I'm sorry if you're offended by my signature. I'll pray about changing to glorify God some more.
But you couldn't even answer the simple question I asked about how a beast is defined, could you? Why? because it throws your doctrine right out the window, right out of the gate.
You could see the truth in the scripture, but it didn't fit your doctrine, did it?
So who's twisting scripture?
My theology is whatever the Bible says, without taking from the world.
Islam does not fit the mold that you say it fits.
How did theologians interpret the beast before Islam came along?
You have just a little over 500 years there before Muhammad.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 8:54:53 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Midwest
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ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
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ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
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ORIGINAL: ccoppenbarger
All wrong. All wrong. All wrong.
The first part are matters of fact.
If you meant the latter part, let's start here. What's a beast when figurative language is used in a vision or dream in prophecy?
Let me edit add this verse for a little help:
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
PS your signature is repulsive, but no surprise based on the quality of your post.
What else could I have said? You want to believe that Islam could be the anti-christ or whatever it is, so you post twisted scripture to do so. I'm sick and tired of people trying to prove from scripture that Islam is the anti-christ, Allah means 666, or whatever. It's a bunch of hooey and is just wrong. It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so.
P.S. I'm sorry if you're offended by my signature. I'll pray about changing to glorify God some more.
I thought we as Christians are supposed to love our enemy. Knowing who the enemy gives us the oppurtunity to love and pray for these poor lost people. If scripture tells us a group of people are the beast then I would beleive it because "2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: "
You said "It leads us down the road to hating the Muslims and not sharing Christ with them because they're all just so "evil" because our scriptures say so." Hating and not sharing the Gospel with them would not be doing as Christians are told to do and that is love our enemy. If we know who the beast is it makes it easier to target them with our love and witnesssing, hate is not the correct response to knowing the truth.
My point was that scripture does not say that Islam is the beast or the anti-christ or whatever.
I've known Christians who have believed this way, and used it to justify not witnessing to Muslims. That, of course, is the wrong attitude to have.
We should love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute us.
We should make disciples of ALL nations.
We should not be looking to scripture, taking the things of this world and making scripture fit to our preconceived ideas.
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"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 9:14:08 AM
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fiat_lux
Posts: 283
Joined: 5/21/2005
From: Ottawa
Status: offline
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Allah, the proper name they apply to their god, simply does not mean "I AM" in Arabic. Jews and Chtristians Father is YHWH (English/Hebrew Yahweh)
And "God" does not mean "I am" in English, either. Arabic-speaking Christians (and Jews, I suppose) have used "Allah" to refer to "God," because "Allah" is the Arabic equivalent, in usage, of our English "God."
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Some say the source of the name Allah is likely from the moon god idol which was one of the 360 idols worshipped in Mecca when Mohammed made his selection. Some say the roots of the name go back to idol worship at Baal. Any Christian that would call their God Allah is in serious error, although I am aware, as you, that some in the middle east do, through inexcusable ignorance. It's not like they don't have Exodus in their bibles. In the West we call Him God, but we are fully aware that this is not His proper name.
And perhaps Arabic speakers are also fully aware of this, so accusing your brothers and sisters of "inexcusable ignorance" is probably a bit of a stretch here. In any event, saying that we need to have any specific name in order to worship the Lord is a bit of a stretch. As far as I can recall, the only name the Bible makes a big issue of in that respect is the name of the Son, not the Father. So with respect, I think you're well off base here.
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Who would expect you to be. Folks come into these forums to promote doctrine. This likely isn't consistent with yours.
Which is why I gave reasons for not being convinced. People, including myself, have beliefs. On this forum, we discuss and debate these beliefs.
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I post here for the one in a thousand that is lurking off the forum, that is Berean hearted enough to read a free book, that may do something other than advance their chosen doctrine.
I am perfectly willing to read free books. And I am also free to disagree with them.
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That one person in a thousand that is simply willing to ask "What if the Lord meant...", rather than simply spewing the doctrine they were taught, that their pastor was taught before them.
Well, my pastor and I actually have a very wide range of disagreements. And I am always willing to ask that question. I hope you are willing to do likewise. I don't have an unwavering confidence in my own beliefs, or those of others. Instaed, it is my apparently futile belief that by putting our cards on the table and discussing their flaws, we can all move a little further towards the truth.
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That would be Mohammed. THE FALSE PROPHET.
Yeah, but the symbol in question was Allah, not Muhammad, was it not? What is the "number" of Muhammad?
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But that doesn't fit your doctrine either, even though this specifically antichrist false prophet has led his minions of antichrists to perdition over 1300 years.
At the moment, I really don't have a doctrine on the subject of the antichrist's identity, personal or otherwise. I am in search of one.
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Daniel's leopard is about the geography of ancient Greece, not modern day Greece.
Last I checked, ancient Greece included much of what is now modern Greece.
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Do you believe God's interest is in the borders that men lay out to divide nations? No. His interest is spiritual, isn't it? So what do we find if we think about it a little?
ALL MUSLIM COUNTRIES AND SECTS AROUND THE WORLD ARE UNANIMOUSLY UNITED BEHIND THEIR ANTICHRIST FALSE PROPHET MOHAMMED, AND EACH AND EVERY MUSLIM IS FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT OF ANTICHRIST.
They're obviously not unanimously united, because right now they're killing each other in Iraq, amongst other places. The Shia-Sunni split, in particular, is pretty significant; the more conservative elements of both sides (like the Sunni Wahhabism, which influenced bin Laden in his younger days) still insist that the other side isn't actually Muslim.
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Reread Rev chapter 13, but try using a proper definition of beast, instead of imagining a silver screen boogeyman this time through.
I followed your advice and re-read Rev 13, although there really was no need, since you've accused me of looking for a "silver screen boogeyman" before, and it was never true. By "proper" definition, I assume you mean your definition.
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Your defense of your preconceived notions prevent you from seeing any simple truth. If you could simply look at what is rather than trying to wring it through the filter of your doctrine, it would be a lot easier for you to understand.
Not that I don't enjoy being called an indoctrinated simpleton, but exactly what doctrine am I "wringing" reality through? I am simply making observations based upon my knowledge of history and current affairs. I am not attempting to discredit you based upon my own eschatological doctrines, because, at the moment, the ones I've been taught I've basically abandoned anyways. I suppose that makes me an amillennialist by default, though it's not a term I'm particularly attached to.
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Are you a Muslim?
No.
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 9:38:41 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3961
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
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John, with all due respect, you complain that people come to the thread to promote their own "doctrines", yet you do exactly that. You promote extra-biblical sources and claim to have been given special inspiration, guidance, whatever. I have seen many such claims and I am not easily impressed. I respect your sincerity and time spent in research, but your conclusions do not ring true.
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Wenn Sie so intelligent sind, warum Sie hier sind?
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 10:16:10 AM
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upNORTder
Posts: 220
Joined: 7/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
"In the name of Allah" = Bismillah = 666
"Allah" is simply Arabic for "God." Palestinian and Arab Christians, for example, also worship "Allah
A good friend of mine is a Christian Palestinian Arab (he's Greek Orthodox). He says that they use the arabic word "Illah" for God. Illah literally is the plural form of God, indicating the Trinity. A moslem would never use Illah.
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Quote me as saying I was mis-quoted.
Groucho
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RE: 666 and Islam - The Mark of the Beast - 4/10/2007 10:50:26 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1896
Joined: 2/26/2006
Status: offline
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I suppose you actually would like me to respond to this. Here we go.
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
ISLAM AND THE NUMBER 666
"In the name of Allah" = Bismillah = 666
I thought I had posted this in this forum. Please let me know if it is a redundant thread.
I don't know why the photo links don't work but you click on the links to them.
On the Zola Levitt program, Walid Shoebat, http://www.shoebat.com/ a former PLO terrorist now Christian evangelist, said that when he saw the Greek symbol that is translated in the Bible as 666, he immediately read it as the Arabic character “bismillah” which means "in the name of Allah." For the audio visit http://www.levitt.tv/ and scroll down to section "Age of Terror", and then "Mark of the Beast", to view the interview. You can scroll the Real Player to the 12 minute mark where the interview with Walid Shoebat begins.
Considering you're linking to sites that advocate the protection of the modern secularist political state known as Israel above other peoples, that's not very convincing.
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Below (left) are photos of Greek symbols translated in the Bible as 666, from Free Jesus.net: http://www.freejesus.net/home/viewtopic.php?t=5396 The gold symbol (bottom and right) is Arabic for "Allah" or "in the name of Allah" when turned and mirrored. Additionally, crossed swords are a symbol for Islam. So in 666 we find both "Islam" and "in the name of Allah".
[image]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/10079040.jpg[/image]
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/10079040.jpg
In the Muslim's words:
http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm
None of that proves anything. You have a Greek language and an Arabic language. This is a literal twisting (or spinning of the words) to prove something outside of scripture.
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"The number 666 is highly publicized all over the world and it is associated with evil and danger.
However, it is not what it seems. It was a Satanic trick.
The trick was to prevent the people approaching the 666.
Satan knew that the 666 is the book of GOD and the people should be kept away from it.
According to his plan, he placed a bad image to the number 666."
"The number 666 mentioned in the book of Revelation 13:18 is a part of a satanic scheme to hypnotise the minds of Christians. It is intended to cast fear and evil.
The reason is to create the negative prejudice in the minds of the people when they witness the number 666, the truth.
The truth is that This Quran is the 666 , The Book from The Lord of the Universe."
"The First Sura in the Quran, 666, is Praise. This sura is the gift of GOD to us to establish Contact with Him through our daily Contact Prayers. "
If you've got your sound on this link will likely make the hair stand up on the back of your neck: http://www.66619.org/
I don't believe the mark needs to be physical but.... interesting article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1890541.stm
[image]http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538287_ashura_lebanon_ap300.jpg[/image]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538287_ashura_lebanon_ap300.jpg
[image]http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538306_ashura_boy_ap150.jpg[/image]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/36538000/jpg/_36538306_ashura_boy_ap150.jpg
What do these links have to do with anything?
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Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast [Islamic empire] and his image, [second Jihad in the image of the first Jihad] and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig24.gif[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig24.gif
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig23.gif[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/fig23.gif
[image]http://www.freejesus.net/666/mark.jpg[/image]
http://www.freejesus.net/666/mark.jpg
Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Actually, that's particularly talking about all Gentiles, which means us. Not a particular people. Point?
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This 666 connection is, however, just one minor component of Bible prophecy pointing to the Middle Eastern Islamic empire as being, geographically, the leopard-bear-lion beast of Revelation 13.
The seat of Islam today, Iraq, Iran, and Syria/Lebanon occupies the same geographical region as Daniel's successive lion, bear, and leopard kingdom "beasts" (Babylon, Medo-Pursia, Greece)
[image]http://www.beholdthebeast.com/077f42d0.png[/image]
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/077f42d0.png
Greece is further north.
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Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: [Islamic Empire] for it is the number of a man; [the prophet Mohammed] and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six. [666]
Now you contradict yourself. Earlier, you said 666 was Bismallah. Then you said it was Allah. Now you say it is Muhammad. Which is it?
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Is the Lord showing Christians, Jews and Muslims through this 666 connection, which "man" and "beast" carries this number, as we now find ourselves in Daniel's "time of the end"?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them [Muslims] was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast [Islamic empire] and the false prophet [Mohammed] [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Now the Muslims are the devil and the false prophet is Muhammad?
You keep changing your view here. Let me leave you with a passage from the same book which is also a warning.
(Rev 22:18 ESV) I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book,
(Rev 22:19 ESV) and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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