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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/11/2007 8:20:43 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
First note that whoever it is, he will be revealed. I ask you, is satan hidden now? All Christians know about him. Next, note what else Paul called this man: "the son of perdition." Can you find one other scripture where satan is called either the "man of sin," or the "son of perdition?"
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
We see that it was Judas that was also called "the son of perdition." Why then, would anyone believe that the "son of perdition," or the "man of sin" is satan himself? That is just goofy.
The verse involving the son of perdition does indeed discuss Judas.
So based on what you wrote do we presume that you believe that the 2 Thess that "man of sin", the "son of perdition", sitting in the temple of God, is all over and done with, since Judas is dead?
Alternatively are we to believe that God is to resurrect Judas into Judas physical body, to sitteth in your rebuilt temple, and act out your end time play?
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
Please also notice that I did not point you to some thread, but just used scripture to show the error of your belief.
Do you think that if something has already been covered in a thread that it should all be written over again in a less related thread or addressed in the subject thread?
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/11/2007 2:28:12 PM
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lecoop
Posts: 199
Joined: 11/5/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
First note that whoever it is, he will be revealed. I ask you, is satan hidden now? All Christians know about him. Next, note what else Paul called this man: "the son of perdition." Can you find one other scripture where satan is called either the "man of sin," or the "son of perdition?"
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
We see that it was Judas that was also called "the son of perdition." Why then, would anyone believe that the "son of perdition," or the "man of sin" is satan himself? That is just goofy.
The verse involving the son of perdition does indeed discuss Judas.
So based on what you wrote do we presume that you believe that the 2 Thess that "man of sin", the "son of perdition", sitting in the temple of God, is all over and done with, since Judas is dead?
Alternatively are we to believe that God is to resurrect Judas into Judas physical body, to sitteth in your rebuilt temple, and act out your end time play?
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
Please also notice that I did not point you to some thread, but just used scripture to show the error of your belief.
Do you think that if something has already been covered in a thread that it should all be written over again in a less related thread or addressed in the subject thread?
Good points John! But no, it is not done with, and no, God is not going to resurrect Judas. However, we know that Satan entered into Judas. I suspect the link between Judas and the beast (why they are both called the 'son of perdition') is that Satan will enter into the beast. If it was written before in the same forum, I guess it could be abbreviated and then linked to.
Coop
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/11/2007 2:42:00 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
First note that whoever it is, he will be revealed. I ask you, is satan hidden now? All Christians know about him. Next, note what else Paul called this man: "the son of perdition." Can you find one other scripture where satan is called either the "man of sin," or the "son of perdition?"
John 17:12
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
We see that it was Judas that was also called "the son of perdition." Why then, would anyone believe that the "son of perdition," or the "man of sin" is satan himself? That is just goofy.
The verse involving the son of perdition does indeed discuss Judas.
So based on what you wrote do we presume that you believe that the 2 Thess that "man of sin", the "son of perdition", sitting in the temple of God, is all over and done with, since Judas is dead?
Alternatively are we to believe that God is to resurrect Judas into Judas physical body, to sitteth in your rebuilt temple, and act out your end time play?
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
Please also notice that I did not point you to some thread, but just used scripture to show the error of your belief.
Do you think that if something has already been covered in a thread that it should all be written over again in a less related thread or addressed in the subject thread?
Good points John! But no, it is not done with, and no, God is not going to resurrect Judas. However, we know that Satan entered into Judas. I suspect the link between Judas and the beast (why they are both called the 'son of perdition') is that Satan will enter into the beast. If it was written before in the same forum, I guess it could be abbreviated and then linked to.
Coop
Just like when Satan invaded Judas, it is possible for him invade today's Christian, and sitteth in the temple of God. We even can't see the danger if we believe he is about some future individual.
I believe that's why the enemy put this misunderstanding in the western futurist church.
A good literal example is when an unclean spirit poses as God in a Christian speaking in an unclean tongue.
What about the Episcopal bishops that went directly against God's word and ordained a homosexual priest that had divorced his wife, abandoned the home of his wife and two minor daughters, shacked up in a non-celibate relationship with his homosexual squeeze, and they ordained him while in that state. Did the man of sin in their temples exhault himself above all that is God?
Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/11/2007 4:30:48 PM
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shilohsfoal
Posts: 25
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quote:
We even can't see the danger if we believe he is about some future individual.
I believe that's why the enemy put this misunderstanding in the western futurist church.
I wouldnt call Paul the enemy just because he spoke of this event as future.
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 8:31:04 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shilohsfoal
quote:
We even can't see the danger if we believe he is about some future individual.
I believe that's why the enemy put this misunderstanding in the western futurist church.
I wouldnt call Paul the enemy just because he spoke of this event as future.
It's obvious from this statement that you don't understand where the temple of God is.
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 12:01:41 PM
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lecoop
Posts: 199
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John, where is the "temple" of God? Where does God dwell?
Jesus is at the right hand of the Father.
The Father is then at the left hand of Jesus.
Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
So we see that God the Father is sitting on the throne, right where we expect Him to be.
Jesus is right there beside Him.
Romans 8:34
Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Ephesians 1:20
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Colossians 3:1
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
Hebrews 1:13
But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Hebrews 8:1
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Hebrews 10:12
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
1 Peter 3:22
Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Revelation 5:1
And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
Shows God on the throne.
Revelation 5:7
And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
Shows Jesus there too. Therefore, why do you make such a fuss over us being the temple of God? It is the HS that indwells us, while at the same time, God the Father and Jesus are in heaven.
Why then not believe what the scriptures tell us then, that Jesus (or the Father) can indeed indwell us, but can also be in the temple or in the city? Did you forget that God is onipresent?
Rev 21
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Did God have to "undwell" us to be in the great city, New Jerusalem? No! He can indwell us and be elsewhere at the same time.
Where will the Lamb of God be at that time? Indwelling us? NO!
23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Therefore, your argument is truly a nonargument. Of course there will be a temple, and of course God will dwell there forever.
Coop
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 1:22:14 PM
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bob97
Posts: 1895
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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Yes Coop, I believe there will be a temple and there will be an actual antichrist.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 4:55:18 PM
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sagacity
Posts: 18
Joined: 4/12/2007
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quote:
Meanwhile there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone. This doesn't even count the atheist neighbor down your block where your kids go to hang out. The Church has been deceived into looking in the wrong place. Has the Church's looking for some individual "Antichrist", past or present, also made it look like so much buffoonery to those outside of the Church?
666
THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Read: Genesis 15:1-38 & Exodus 14:1-27
In the stories you have just read, these people had seen the hand of God working. Yet Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt and Israel continued to complain until thier unbelief kept a whole generation from seizing the Promise Land. They loved the ways of the world more than the salvation of God. All they could think about was themselves. They could not understand God’s heart and what He desired for them. They only saw the hand which had bestow blessing on them. Matthew 7:21-23, many in that day will say did not we ...!
Read: The book of Colossians 1-3, 1Jn.2:15-16, Ep.2:2, Re.13:8
It seem to me that 666 is a heart condition, what ever the mind thinketh the hand doeth. Oh Lord create in me a clean heart, then I will teach sinners in the way. 2Pe.1:3-4, 2Co.7:1, Ro.12:1-3
We are to be in the world but not of it. For the meek inherit
the earth and the fullness there of, it is the wicked who will perish. We are to stand and be a light unto the world so that the world maybe taken out of the snare of the enemy. Read: Ro. 8.
Read: Proverbs 13:22, Ecc.2:24-26 John 17:1-26, 2Pe.2:1-22
The sinner works for the righteous man and God owns the earth and the fullness there of. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills and it is His good pleasure to give us the kingdom. We have no need to fear what man may or may not do, for God is in control. We are to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matthew 6:25-34 explains how we are to function in this present age. Acts 1:8-9, tells us we are endued with power to be witnesses of the most high God while functioning in this present age. The power is of God and by the Holy Spirit. It is not of mens will or by natural election, that the victory is won. It is by the Father’s right hand that the victory is won through His Son Jesus Christ. For all things work for the good of them that are called according to His purpose and His purpose is for us to walk in faith, for without faith it is impossible to please Him and be the light.
rek
3/07/00
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 7:54:32 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
John, where is the "temple" of God? Where does God dwell?
Why lard it with presumption, or your misinterpretation of the figurative language of prophecy, when the bible is so clear?
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Those verses are not open to interpretation and your effort moves to cheapen the perfect sacrifice of Jesus' shed blood.
Salvation by grace through faith is offered to the Jew first.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Live with it. Or live without it.
Darby's doctrine is what is guiding you. What the heck. Go over and help the Jews build a temple. Shame you couldn't have helped with the building of the temple to Jupiter. I'm sure the Lord would have appreciated that too.
It amazes me you don't see it even from your quoted? And you even bolded it. I pasted it just as you quoted and bolded it:
Rev 21
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Do you really think that God is going to dwell on a physical throne, in a physical earthly temple, that was built by the hands of men, forever? That this is how He will be "with men"? And He will dwell "with them"? Do you really believe that this means that all mankind will be physically sitting around some earthly throne in some earthly rebuilt temple?
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/12/2007 9:31:04 PM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/12/2007 8:08:13 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sagacity
quote:
Meanwhile there are 1.5 billion antichrists in Islam alone. This doesn't even count the atheist neighbor down your block where your kids go to hang out. The Church has been deceived into looking in the wrong place. Has the Church's looking for some individual "Antichrist", past or present, also made it look like so much buffoonery to those outside of the Church?
666
THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Read: Genesis 15:1-38 & Exodus 14:1-27
In the stories you have just read, these people had seen the hand of God working. Yet Lot’s wife was turned into a pillar of salt and Israel continued to complain until thier unbelief kept a whole generation from seizing the Promise Land. They loved the ways of the world more than the salvation of God. All they could think about was themselves.
Amen bro. And today we have a whole generation of indoctrinated Christians greedily looking for escape from tribulation, when tribulation is what we are to expect. Even pray for, as a measure of our devotion to Christ Jesus:
2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
quote:
ORIGINAL: sagacity
They could not understand God’s heart and what He desired for them. They only saw the hand which had bestow blessing on them. Matthew 7:21-23, many in that day will say did not we ...!
Read: The book of Colossians 1-3, 1Jn.2:15-16, Ep.2:2, Re.13:8
It seem to me that 666 is a heart condition, what ever the mind thinketh the hand doeth. Oh Lord create in me a clean heart, then I will teach sinners in the way. 2Pe.1:3-4, 2Co.7:1, Ro.12:1-3
We are to be in the world but not of it. For the meek inherit
the earth and the fullness there of, it is the wicked who will perish. We are to stand and be a light unto the world so that the world maybe taken out of the snare of the enemy. Read: Ro. 8.
Read: Proverbs 13:22, Ecc.2:24-26 John 17:1-26, 2Pe.2:1-22
The sinner works for the righteous man and God owns the earth and the fullness there of. He owns the cattle on a thousand hills and it is His good pleasure to give us the kingdom. We have no need to fear what man may or may not do, for God is in control. We are to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things shall be added unto you.
Matthew 6:25-34 explains how we are to function in this present age. Acts 1:8-9, tells us we are endued with power to be witnesses of the most high God while functioning in this present age. The power is of God and by the Holy Spirit. It is not of mens will or by natural election, that the victory is won. It is by the Father’s right hand that the victory is won through His Son Jesus Christ. For all things work for the good of them that are called according to His purpose and His purpose is for us to walk in faith, for without faith it is impossible to please Him and be the light.
rek
3/07/00
Some in this same generation (in the first century Greek metaphorical sense) believe that if they go forward and pay lip service to God with a sinners prayer, they will be saved. With no interest in repentence whatsoever.
"Well my old lady went up and did it and tells me I better do it too so's I don't git "left behind"". Even their pastor may say something like "congratulations your name is written in the Lamb's book of life", which would necessarily presume that he not only knows the condition of their heart, but that he knows God's judgments.
Mic 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/15/2007 8:23:15 AM
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lecoop
Posts: 199
Joined: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
John, where is the "temple" of God? Where does God dwell?
Why lard it with presumption, or your misinterpretation of the figurative language of prophecy, when the bible is so clear?
Do you really think that God is going to dwell on a physical throne, in a physical earthly temple, that was built by the hands of men, forever? That this is how He will be "with men"? And He will dwell "with them"? Do you really believe that this means that all mankind will be physically sitting around some earthly throne in some earthly rebuilt temple?
Seems like I said something before about how you read:
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit!
Where will we dwell? We will always be with Him!
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Where will HE, Father God, ever be and His Redeemer, the Lamb of God? Where will they dwell forever?
Revelation 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
I know you like to retreat into " the figurative language of prophecy," but you have to "rightly divide" the word of truth. God the Father is on the throne in heaven, and the Holy Spirit dwells in us: we are the temple of the HS. Do you believe in the trinity?
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
As I said before, this idea of "we are the temple" so there can't ever be another temple is a VERY WEAK argument. John, I hope you can do better.
Coop
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/15/2007 9:15:05 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
John, where is the "temple" of God? Where does God dwell?
Why lard it with presumption, or your misinterpretation of the figurative language of prophecy, when the bible is so clear?
Do you really think that God is going to dwell on a physical throne, in a physical earthly temple, that was built by the hands of men, forever? That this is how He will be "with men"? And He will dwell "with them"? Do you really believe that this means that all mankind will be physically sitting around some earthly throne in some earthly rebuilt temple?
Seems like I said something before about how you read:
How who reads? quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
We are the temple of the Holy Spirit!
Yes we are but it seems you missed a few verses. The verse you quoted confirms your claim unambiguously. And three verses confirm in no uncertain terms that regenerate believers bodies are also the "temple of God". These verses are absolutely not open to interpretation:
1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1 Corinthians 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
2 Corinthians 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
Where will we dwell? We will always be with Him!
1 Thessalonians 4:17
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Where will HE, Father God, ever be and His Redeemer, the Lamb of God? Where will they dwell forever?
Revelation 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
I know you like to retreat into " the figurative language of prophecy," but you have to "rightly divide" the word of truth. Yes it does have to be rightly divided. And rightly dividing the word includes understanding that figurative language is used in the bible. And particularly in visions and dreams in prophecy.
Otherwise we would be left trying to figure out how two literal candlesticks or two olive trees could sprout mouths, brains, and talk, or how these inanimate objects could move themselves from their fixed positions and go out and witness. How could they walk?
That is why we have to look to the bible to explain this figurative language. THAT IS WHY WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT OTHER PASSAGES ARE NOT AT ALL OPEN TO INTERPRETATION. If they conflict with our interpretation of the figurative language of prophecy, then it is obviously our interpretation of that figurative language that is incorrect.
Or we might be stuck in a fantasy imagining that John is actually physically walking around a physical temple that is built on the isle of Patmos, in around 95 AD.
It would seem that your effort is increasingly being spent trying to misunderstand. You have seen the verses above regarding the location of the "temple of God" over and over, yet somehow your post indicates that you missed them entirely.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
God the Father is on the throne in heaven, and the Holy Spirit dwells in us: we are the temple of the HS. Do you believe in the trinity?
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
Can't you see that the Holy Spirit dwells in the temple of God - ourselves? quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
As I said before, this idea of "we are the temple" so there can't ever be another temple is a VERY WEAK argument. John, I hope you can do better.
Coop
There has already been a temple to Jupiter on the temple mount. Why would I think that men aren't capable of doing most anything contrary to truth?
I don't believe that prophecy was given to us to predict the future. The televangelists are the best example as to why. So how can I predict whether there is or is not to be a temple built? I leave that to the televangelists. I only consider fulfilled prophecy.
I suspect that God would treat any temple built by the hands of men the same way He treated the temple to Jupter. As the affront to the shed blood of Jesus Christ that it would be. And an attempt to restore the old covenant.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/15/2007 11:35:12 AM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/15/2007 10:53:59 PM
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lecoop
Posts: 199
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quote:
I only consider fulfilled prophecy.
Now at last I understand. You do not believe in prophecy; i.e., God telling us of future events.
Coop
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/15/2007 11:30:53 PM
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Midwest
Posts: 251
Joined: 10/19/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
quote:
I only consider fulfilled prophecy.
Now at last I understand. You do not believe in prophecy; i.e., God telling us of future events.
Coop
Coop
I can't speak for John but I believe prophecy was given to us so that as we see it fulfilled through history it proves the Bible. If God wanted us to know the future then why would he have sealed the Book of Daniel until the time of the end as Dan12:4 and Dan12:9 tell us. If we were supposed to tell the future why all the figurative language?
I know John quotes what Matthew Henry and Sir Isaac Newton say about prophecy.
"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton
"Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that explication they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe." - Matthew Henry
God told of future events through prophecy but we must also consider that the prophecies written in Revelations were written about 1900 years ago and at that time John wrote about past, present, and future. Taking this into consideration many of the prophecies that were future to John could very well be in our past. If I am correct in my understanding that we are in the end times and the book of Daniel is no longer sealed, then we are in a unique position where we can look back through history and see fulfilled prophecy. Maybe the key was being able to see recent events that have been fulfilled and working the timeline from today going into the past. Of course this is just my belief and I am sure many will disagree. Obviously not all prophecy has been fulfilled are we would not be here, but I do believe most has been fulfilled and armageddon is knocking on our door.
Do you believe prophecy was given to us to foretell the future or so that we can use fulfilled prophecy and history to prove the Bible correct?
(Edit - just because a person waits for prophecy to be fulfilled does not mean they don't believe in prophecy it just means they are not trying to tell the future by using prophecy)
May God bless our studies and lead us all to the truth.
< Message edited by Midwest -- 4/16/2007 12:36:28 AM >
_____________________________
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;... Romans 1:16
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/16/2007 8:13:11 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
quote:
I only consider fulfilled prophecy.
Now at last I understand. You do not believe in prophecy; i.e., God telling us of future events.
Coop
In other words I believe in real prophets - not false prophets that believe that prophecy was given to them to predict the future, so that we could each and every one of us, be a prophet.
Fulfilled prophecy proving the truth of God's Holy Word.
Not "88 reasons Jesus is coming in 1988", and on and on ad nauseum, like those following in John Darby's future predicting footsteps.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
< Message edited by JohnWilliams -- 4/16/2007 1:52:09 PM >
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/17/2007 9:03:37 AM
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lecoop
Posts: 199
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How did Daniel use prophecy?
Dan. 9: 2In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
Daniel understood a prophecy given previously that the time of fulfillment was upon him. Cannot we do the same?
Coop
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/17/2007 2:05:22 PM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lecoop
How did Daniel use prophecy?
Dan. 9: 2In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
Daniel understood a prophecy given previously that the time of fulfillment was upon him. Cannot we do the same?
Coop
Based on FULFILLED prophecy I believe that we are near the end of all things, because there is virtually nothing left to be fulfilled - at least through an ethnographic viewpoint.
But is the generation that is referenced in the bible a biblical 40 year one, or a literal one, or could it even be a 1st century metaphorical Greek one as in a group of men with similar attributes? I can't know.
When I look to the middle east, does it look like we are in the final moments? Yes, but I can't know.
Most importantly Daniel WAS a prophet. Daniel was spoken to by the Angel Gabriel. If I could become as close to my Lord as Daniel was, the Lord might make me a prophet too. As it is, I believe the Lord is encouraging me to discuss fulfilled prophecy, and some matters related to our Jewish bretheren. Daniel was used as a prophet because of his extraordinary devotion to the Lord.
There is a difference between being a prophet, and simply believing oneself to be a prophet. Matthew Henry and Isaac Newton aptly explained the danger in the latter, as has been pasted in these forums repeatedly. Today's saint has been worn out by a long string of false prophets, and prophecy has been brought into contempt as a result, just as these fine men before us, had cautioned.
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/18/2007 5:16:50 PM
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shilohsfoal
Posts: 25
Joined: 2/15/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
It's obvious from this statement that you don't understand where the temple of God is.
Im not the one saying the Dome of the rock is the abomination standing where the temple aught to.
You are.
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/19/2007 8:53:57 AM
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JohnWilliams
Posts: 57
Joined: 3/31/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shilohsfoal
quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
It's obvious from this statement that you don't understand where the temple of God is.
Im not the one saying the Dome of the rock is the abomination standing where the temple aught to.
You are.
What does the temple of God have to do with the dome of the rock?
The bodies of regenerate individuals is the temple of God.
_____________________________
God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not based on how good he is at defending his doctrine, but on how willing he is to seek out and follow the truth. ~ Ellis Skolfield.
Please visit http://www.beholdthebeast.com
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 4/19/2007 5:00:47 PM
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shilohsfoal
Posts: 25
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnWilliams
What does the temple of God have to do with the dome of the rock?
The bodies of regenerate individuals is the temple of God.
Yes the temple is the body.Not a building made with hands.Therefore the abomination of desolation can not be the dome of the rock for the abomination shall stand on the wing of the temple.Not on mt moriah.Also the king of the north (whom arms stand on his part)cannot be Mohammed who was never a king.
Youve insist because the dome of the rock has writings on it then it is the abomination of desolation but if you notice there is another abomination that is to be placed within man(the temple).That abomination is called the mark of the beast.Our Lord seals his servants with his name and the man of sin shall also seal his servants with his mark.That is the abomination of desolation .
As it is written in the book of Rev(come out of her my people) and as Jesus told those in Judea to flee.It is Jerusalem that sits on seven mountains.
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RE: ANTICHRIST - 5/12/2007 3:58:44 PM
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albobaby
Posts: 1
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LISTEN people!! Many say that you shouldn't speculate about when Jesus will return. But the bible says no man knows the DAY or the HOUR, but even Jesus warns to discern the signs of the times. Also, Revelations says "LET HIM who hath understanding RECOGNIZE the number of the beast - for it is of human number..." This is a message from God himself that if we are wise we CAN recognize who the antichrist will potentially be. Also, in the U.N. congregating room right now there are numbered seats for all the members. Seat #666 is and has been vacant, even though all other seats are assigned names, even almost to seat #680 - you can check this on the internet yourself - the names of each nationality occupying that particular seat are listed. My educated OPINION is that the antichrist could be a U.N. secretary-general or president of one of its sessions, as this would be a suitable platform for him to appear on, regardless of what nationality he be from. Keep the faith people and don't let differences of opinion separate and divide us! And if you're going to speculate you should have some biblical basis and grounds for your opinions. There are some real crackpot theories out there, but God's word and spirit is the only thing that can help us to understand if we look and study enough.
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