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[Poll]
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How many of you own microscopes?
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| We own one |
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| We don't have one, won't get one |
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| We don't have one, will get one |
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| We just borrowed/rented one |
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Total Votes : 34
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(last vote on : 10/21/2008 9:41:24 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 9:44:28 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
Thank you so much for your help. I have also noticed some of your wonderful posts in the marriage forum. You are a blessing. I've been praying blessings over you and your wife.
Thank you so much.
My wife is going through a very rough time due to some scar tissue buildup from an earlier operation and if the next non-surgical procedure doesn't work she will face very complicated surgery.
Your communicating that you are praying for us is appreciated more than you could possibly have known. 
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/27/2007 9:51:44 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 9:47:42 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
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I've written to the company and directed the message to the president. It's only fair that they have an opportunity to turn around the situation that we've been discussing.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 9:06:46 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
I've written to the company and directed the message to the president. It's only fair that they have an opportunity to turn around the situation that we've been discussing.
Oh my. Well the funny thing is that he thinks he knows what I am asking, but he still hasn't given me any information about what the course actually requires in a microscope, except to point me to more microscopes. I'm not sure how else to put it to him. I believe he's trying to be helpful and to tell the truth, I think I may have offended him. I tend to be really blunt and sometimes it doesn't work out so well. Other times, it's perfect. Unfortuantely this may be a time when it wasn't so great.
You actually did him a favor by being blunt. Although, people tend not to appreciate that kind of help at the time it's given. Consider it a wake up call.
Most people would simply feel insulted and turn to another company for both courseware and scope without ever giving them a chance to change. Now, the ball is in their court and they have a wonderful opportunity to take corrective action.
I have no financial stake in helping people with microscopes. I do it because I am passionate about the amazing wonders of the small world and the adventure that can come to a child or adult that comes to venture into that world with a microscope. If I sold microscopes, I wouldn't sell objects. I'd sell the adventure and the thrill of discovery that can be had with that object.
Now, I'll chide you a little bit.
You are looking for a microscope to fulfill the requirements of a class.
I'd urge you to rethink why a microscope could end up being one of the best investments you will ever make in your child's life. It's a doorway to a fascinating and largely ignored and unseen world. Learning to appreciate that world, in all its beauty, brings us face to face with the incredible work of God in putting so much detail into such tiny little creatures.
For me, one of the strongest arguments for Creation is the incredible intricacy of one celled animals. But, it goes beyond science and reaches into the arts. When my children were small I would take my microscopes with us to the beach. We would explore the creatures on the seaweed and sand we'd collect and examine the plants that were so different from the ones in our home.
In another thread I linked to my daughter's sculptures. There is an organic beauty to her work that she would say, that in part, came from those beautiful, God created forms that she saw under the microscope at the beach.
The better the scope, the greater the potential for adventure and beauty and, the more it will become a cherished part of your children's appreciation of God, the creator. You get a scope and I will do my best to help you make it a great adventure... WAY beyond the meager confines of courseware. 
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 12:39:00 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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I would be so afraid of taking a microscope to the beach! I'd be afraid of breaking it. But... that sounds really cool. We often go to the beach in the summertime. There is so much to see.
I am not wanting to purchase the cheapest microscope, but I don't have a ton of money either. I'm thinking something under $300.
You are right, Meeks, about wanting to use this for much than just one class. I think the other children would benefit from having a microscope around.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 3:16:13 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
quote:
You are right, Meeks, about wanting to use this for much than just one class. I think the other children would benefit from having a microscope around.
Still good to have a minimum requirements list though just so you are not wasting your money and find out later when you get to a new section of the book that you will need something better. You can always get a better one then they require, but you still need to know the requirements.
Do they have a phone number you can call Cynthia?
Right. I don't want to get something less than what is needed to properly complete the course, but sounds like the course doesn't have any special requirements that cannot be met with a basic student microscope. It would be good, however, if they would list exactly what the requirements are in their supply list. I liked how Meeks put it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: TMeeks
The course simply requires a basic Student Microscope having at least 400x capability. We also recommend that the microscope have both coarse and fine focus adjustments. It's a good idea for the scope to have spring loaded safety lenses and a slip clutch so as to not damage either the prepared slides or the objectives themselves.
Now that tells me what I ought to be looking for in order to complete the course properly. They really ought to have that on their web-site, with the information about the biology course.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 3:43:17 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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I have read with great interest this interchange between you and Cynthia. I would like to apologize to you, Cynthia, and your readers for my errors in interpretation and judgment regarding this exchange. I read into Cynthia's original note that she needed to know what microscope we recommend, which is found on our web site. In retrospect, I should have just sent her the link to the manufacturer's specifications as I did in my second reply to her given below. It is totally my fault for hurriedly reading her note and replying.
I also should have engaged her problem as you suggested in your note. You are correct; there is no excuse for rudeness or blaming the customer. I answer e-mails for Apologia for one hour per day after I finish teaching live-feed, real-time internet courses for five hours straight per day. I put in 60 hours per week teaching general science, biology, and marine biology to 195 missionary students and home schooling families located in 29 countries around the world. I also have my own tutorial service which provides high quality, audio recorded lectures of and notes to the classes above. I had a lapse of judgment regarding this interchange. The only excuse I can give is fatique. My lapse and behavior, however, should not reflect upon Apologia. It is fine organization with a caring and helpful full-time staff. The fault in this is all mine and I humbly ask your, Cynthia's, and your reader's forgiveness.
Thank you for the opportunity to post this apology.
Steve Rosenoff
www.redwagontutorials.com
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Dear Cynthia,
Thank you for your feedback on my interaction with you. I apologize if I came across as anything but helpful. What I thought you were asking for in your e-mail was where to find what we recommended as far as microscopes for our courses. I directed you back to that resource, which is linked to our main catalog page. You asked me to tell you what "specifics are necessary on a microscope to complete the biology course." This information is available on the microscope catalog page. We recommend the National Model 131 for our courses. You made no mention that you had been to the web page to look in your note. I sent you to the resource we have available, which is www.apologia.com. If you needed more information than that, you should have been more specific about your needs. I would have gladly helped if you would have provided me more detail as to what you were looking for in a microscope. The National Model 131 specifications are available to you by simply doing an internet search. If you would have typed this information into your browser search engine, you would have visited the following web site, which is the manufacturer's specification page for the microscope:
http://www.nationaloptical.com/products/compound/models/131.html
I am glad you found help and advice through a biology teacher. I glad you had face to face interact with him so he could ask you questions. I did not have that luxury. If you need help, I will gladly do so. However, I need to know specifically what you want in the e-mail you send. I thought I had provided what you needed and asked for in your mail. Sorry if I fell short.
Thanks for selecting Apologia for your home education needs. May you day be blessed and your Christmas season be bright and full of grace.
God Bless,
Steve Rosenoff
______________________
Dear Steve,
I have to say that your e-mail was a great disappointment to me. First off, you did not answer my question. Secondly, you sent me back to where I had already been. Not only that, but you didn't even send me to the microscope page, you sent me to the home page. Either you are having a bad day, are extremely busy or just flat out don't care about the way you come across to customers.
I am a home educating parent using the Apologia curriculum. Like most home educators, I research as I get to the place of needing something. In this case, I am going to be needing a microscope. Since I am at the beginning stage, I really know nothing about microscopes. I figured the best place to start is with finding out what the suggestions are listed with the supplies. The only thing it says is "microscope." There are a lot of options in microscopes, so I went looking further for more information on the specifications needed to be in order to properly complete the labs. In the course overview, it states that a microscope is needed, but again no specifications.
In looking further, I found the microscope beingoffered on the Apologia web-site. Showing a microscope that will work for the program and giving a list of what is required in a microscope to complete the program are not the same things. I want to be able to compare microscopes based on what is needed, not based on a microscope being offered. I was especially interested in this information since I am just beginning my research. Since the information was not specifically addressed on the web-site, I decided to go ahead and contact you, but got back a reply telling me to go to your site.
After not having my question answered, I found an actual science teacher and asked him. He told me that the microscope you are offering is a basic student microscope, so that is what I can use as a comparison. He did offer some suggestions on what I might like to add that would be helpful, such as a mechanical stage. He was very helpful.
The reason I am taking time out of my day to tell you all this is because I really like the Apologia program and have recommended it to other home educators. It would be a shame for them to be treated as flippantly as I have been and hopefully this will help you to see that it's worth a few minutes of your time to answer customer questions politely, rather than sending them back to where they got your e-mail address in the first place.
Sincerely,
Cynthia
< Message edited by rosenon -- 11/28/2007 5:05:27 PM >
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 4:06:46 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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Steve, Certainly I accept your apology. Thank you. And I'm also sorry if I was too hard on you.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 4:58:39 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Hi Cynthia,
You have no reason to be sorry. You are a customer and, as a patron of Apologia, you have a right to expect quality service. Jay Wile and the Apologia staff are top notch. I am simply a full-time biology teacher/business owner who answers questions for them part-time after my work day is done. I am sure that Jay Wile will look at this practice to see if we should let me concentrate on what I do best, teach content. My skills are not what they should be regarding customer relations and e-mail interactions, but I can tell you 16 ways to better teach a subject or concept.
This entire exchange has help me discover some things I need to work on professionally. I am actually grateful to you for helping me grow.
God Bless,
Steve Rosenoff
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 5:10:51 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3739
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
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In general, I love customer service people when you hear them be real people instead of some kind of automated email or voice response service, especially when they are excited about education.
It is nice to meet you Steve. The fact that you came here to set things right speaks volumes to me.
ETA:
BTW, Welcome to CW!
_____________________________
Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
W2D1
292 more miles t
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 5:41:14 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Thanks for the welcome, Ellie-Mae. I actually had to register just to set this all straight. Now that I am here, this might be fun. My wife and I are both teachers. This is my first ever forum, so it should be interesting to see how this all works. My students use them all the time. I was an evangelist and pastor for six years. I wish this techno-stuff would have been around in my youth.
God Bless,
Steve 
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 6:28:44 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I would be so afraid of taking a microscope to the beach! I'd be afraid of breaking it. But... that sounds really cool. We often go to the beach in the summertime. There is so much to see.
I am not wanting to purchase the cheapest microscope, but I don't have a ton of money either. I'm thinking something under $300.
You are right, Meeks, about wanting to use this for much than just one class. I think the other children would benefit from having a microscope around.
One of my favorite scopes is the Dual View teaching scope that allows two people to view at one time. I'm sure you can find one for under $300. The benefits are:
1) You can see what your children are actually seeing, as apposed to what the THINK they are seeing.
2) A camera (digital or video) can be mounted on the top eyepiece tube for viewing on a PC or monitor.
3) The older kids can mentor the younger kids.
4) peers can discuss what they see.
I'll try to locate the least expensive dealer for you.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 6:40:29 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I would be so afraid of taking a microscope to the beach! I'd be afraid of breaking it. But... that sounds really cool. We often go to the beach in the summertime. There is so much to see.
Believe me. It's worth the risk.
You will be amazed at what is crawing around on one strand of seaweed!
A nice case isn't all that expensive. But, you can use the box it came in. Like everything else, it traveled from china in that case... so, it should be able to make it to the beach and back.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 7:07:13 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Thanks for the praise, Meeks. I will check in as I can and help where I can. I have to agree with you that it is worth the risk to take the microscope with you to the beach. I grew up in Westport, WA and worked my way through high school as a charter boat deckhand. Seawater and marine life are so interesting to view under the scope and fish scales are awesome to look at under magnification. Here is an example page I use from my marine biology class:
http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/what/scales/cyccten.htm
I can't speak for Apologia, but I have ordered the "Fish" book 
God Bless,
Steve
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 7:52:12 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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I've been to Westport. We love to go to the Hood Canal and Potlatch State Park. Now I'm getting excited about taking a microscope with us. You cracked me up, Meeks, about it came all the way from China, it should survive the beach.
Thanks for the link, Steve. I showed it to my eight year old son and he thought it was very cool.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 8:00:01 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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Btw, I am also impressed with your attitude, Steve and really had hoped to make a positive impact. It wasn't my intent to make anyone feel bad, so I'm really glad it has turned out positively.
I've been looking at the biology on Apologia and it states that the student should be in at least Algebra I. My dd is not there yet. She has struggled with math, but has finally had a breakthrough and is doing really well right now. Unfortunately she will not be in Algebra until at least her 10th grade year. Even so, I am thinking that I do not want to hold off any longer on getting a microscope and will be putting it on my list for this spring. In the summer, we will definitely be taking it to Potlatch and other places.
I'm wondering what I'm going to do for her science next year now. She is doing Apologia Physcial Science and is fine in it, but it doesn't look like we can move forward in science with her math not being up to the level necessary for the science. She just finished fractions and is beginning the decimals and percents now.
Thank you for the inspiration Meeks and Steve.
< Message edited by cynthia -- 11/28/2007 8:06:10 PM >
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 8:07:55 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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I am not saying take your microscope SCUBA diving with you. But a drop of seawater, a bit of sand, a piece of seaweed, a scraping of fish skin are a world unto themselves. Here is another great page:
http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/indexmag.html?http://www.microscopy-uk.org.uk/mag/wimsmall/smal1.html
I use this site for both biology and marine biology. It is great because it shows you the microscopic world in a drop of water. It works particularly well for Module 2 and 3 of Apologia's book.
Keep the microscope on a good solid picnic table, clean it with canned compressed air like you use to clean your computer keyboard, brush the gears with a soft toothbrush, and there should be no problem with taking it to the beach. Just remember sand or grit on glass scratches. With a little care and caution, the day should be a great adventure.
God Bless,
Steve 
< Message edited by rosenon -- 11/28/2007 8:27:48 PM >
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 8:22:35 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Hi Cynthia,
I live in Lacey, WA. I play golf at Alderbrook every year and stay at the Inn. I love that Potlatch area also.
Couple of things to consider. The Algebra requirement for biology is two-fold: (1) research by both Cambridge U and U of Washington (Go Huskies) suggest a link between the abstract reasoning ability of algebra and the ability to visualize biology concepts such as cell wall construction and (2) Algebra 1 is necessary to go on to chemistry as you use it right away in the course. If you daughter can do pre-algebra and has a good imagination, she should be fine for biology, but know you will be out of math sequence for chem. My suggestion would be to take biology next year, marine biology the year after, and then chemistry. This would give your student a VERY good intro to biology and possibly in a chance to CLEP her way out of a semester of college biology. It would also give her a chance to get back in math sequence for chem.
Just something to ponder. See, you ask questions and I just give you more stuff to think about ... Not fair!
Dinner and Church is calling.
God Bless,
Steve
< Message edited by rosenon -- 11/28/2007 8:30:12 PM >
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 9:02:24 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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Thank you, Steve. That helps me. It sounds like she'll do fine with biology next year. The math program we use (Math-U-See) has the kids doing some algebra along the way, so she has a feel for it. Her main problem in math was fractions. She struggled with them for two years, then bing the light went on and now that we've hit decimals she'll flying through it. At this rate, she actually could be on track by the time we get to chemistry. However, with all this talk of microsopes at the beach, marine biology might be really fun.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/28/2007 11:47:34 PM
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rosenon
Posts: 123
Joined: 11/28/2007
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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Hi Cynthia,
Math-U-See is a great program and has a wonderful reputation. If you use MATH-U-SEE, you definitely want to use their "honors" supplements, as they have harder problems in them. The more difficult work now will pay off big time when chemistry/physics comes around.
To get back to the microscope question, here are three web sites for you:
http://www.microscope-store.com/student-microscopes-c-50.html
http://www.einsteinstoolbox.com/advancedstudents.html
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