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[Poll]
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How many of you own microscopes?
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| We own one |
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| We don't have one, won't get one |
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| We don't have one, will get one |
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| We just borrowed/rented one |
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Total Votes : 34
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(last vote on : 10/21/2008 9:41:24 PM)
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/19/2007 1:58:44 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: peculiar_lady2
I wasn't sure it would be around when I need it (since we aren't going to buy one anytime that soon) so I copied all the info and saved it in a document for later.
Microscopes aren't the kind of purchases that you make very often, so that was a good idea. But, if the microscope thread does scroll off, simply look for my music logo to PM me. I'll bring the discussion back in here so it will be helpful to other parents. But, it will remind me to make sure there is at least one helpful thread regarding microscopes available to parents.
I love microscopes for myself, for my grandchildren and for all children. God has created a marvelous world with tiny creatures that are as complex and beautiful as the larger world around us and it's a joy to explore it.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/19/2007 2:09:31 PM
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Ellie-Mae
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copied from other thread to avoid forum blur:
My children are 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4. Of course, they would have to be supervised according to their ages.
I will have to ask my hubby about the budget thing. It isn't worth buying one if it doesn't do what we need it to so it will be somewhat determined by that, but we DO need to be wise with our money IYKWIM. We were going to see what we needed and then check around to see how much it is. We are hoping that we can afford it now, but may have to wait if it is too much at this time. We do want to get one soon though.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 12:36:18 AM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
My children are 12, 10, 8, 6, and 4. Of course, they would have to be supervised according to their ages.
I will have to ask my hubby about the budget thing. It isn't worth buying one if it doesn't do what we need it to so it will be somewhat determined by that, but we DO need to be wise with our money IYKWIM. We were going to see what we needed and then check around to see how much it is. We are hoping that we can afford it now, but may have to wait if it is too much at this time. We do want to get one soon though.
I'll pick it back up over here since they consolidated the threads.
With such a wide range of ages, it would helpful to consider one scope now and another later on. The first scope that I would consider is actually my favorite for ALL ages, and that is a low powered stereo scope. These can be purchased at around $130.
Why this scope rather than a compound scope of higher power?
First, it is FAR more versatile for not only your children; but, for ALL the members of your family. Rocks, insects, stamps, photos, fingerprints, jewelry,,, the list goes on and on that can be viewed with a low power stereoscope.
Second, prepared slides are notoriously brittle and dangerously sharp when broken. It hard enough to watch over a single child with a prepared slide; but, five is a REAL handfull. You don't need to deal with slides with a low power scope.
There is an even lower cost alternative and it's called the "Multi-Study Scope" by most companies. It's a monocular version of the low power scope. The problem is that it is 20 power and not 10 power... which cuts down on the depth of field (how much is in focus) and the size of the field (how much can be seen in the eyepiece). The company that I use when I donate scopes or buy my own, is coming out with a psuedo-stereo version of the Multi-Study Scope; but, it won;t be out until January.
As for compund scopes, should you decide to go in that direction, there are LOTS of great choices. It all depends on your budget. The optics in the low-cost "My First Microscope" series are amazingly good. In fact, I have gotten my best digital images from that little scope. But, the controls are less precise than some of the better scopes. There is no fine adjustment and the coarse adjustment isn't Rack & Pinion. It's just friction. However, if that is what you can comfortably afford, it will work for your purposes for a long time.
If you can afford to do better, however, I would do so and look for a scope with a mechanical stage and both coarse and fine adjustment. The C&A Premiere line of scopes is an excellent value. But, there are many others from which to choose. Here's one that can be purchased online from Sam's Club! Again, I would PREFER to have a mechanical stage; But, this is certainly a GREAT value when the budget is pinched... and, having five children has a way of pinching budgets!
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/21/2007 12:47:08 AM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 4:51:20 AM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3739
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From: The EMPIRE state!
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That is really great! thanks TM! This is really helpful to me. I am hoping to have some time this weekend to do a little looking around at microscopes.
I have another question:
My 8 year old wears glasses all of the time. Do kids with glasses have a harder time with microscopes or won't is matter because you can adjust them? If he is looking without his glasses, I am not going to be able to focus the scope for him. Can he see through the scope while wearing glasses or are they going to just get in the way?
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Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 4:04:48 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ellie-Mae
That is really great! thanks TM! This is really helpful to me. I am hoping to have some time this weekend to do a little looking around at microscopes.
I have another question:
My 8 year old wears glasses all of the time. Do kids with glasses have a harder time with microscopes or won't is matter because you can adjust them? If he is looking without his glasses, I am not going to be able to focus the scope for him. Can he see through the scope while wearing glasses or are they going to just get in the way?
That's one that somebody else is going to have to tackle because I think it's an individual call based on the need for glasses, etc.
The compound microscope that I would hope that you could eventually afford, given the wide range of ages in your family, is a DUAL VIEW scope. Two people can look through the scope at one time. It's a bit more pricey than other scopes. But, NOTHING is better at ensuring that your children are actually seeing what you THINK they are seeing.
Compound microscopes are extremely high power. The higher the power, the smaller the actually viewing area. A lot can happen between the time you set up a subject in the middle of the view and the time someone else gets to take a look. The table can jostle. The critter can flee, etc. A DUAL VIEW microscope ensures that both of your are looking at the same view and seeing the same thing.
Home Schooling Supply has them for $245.00. I know what they pay at the wholesale level and think that is a fair price. Other places sell them well over $400. That is a rip-off.
If you can afford the cost... and I urge you to consider it... it will be THE best long term investment in a scope. If they aren't seeing what they should be seeing, even the best scope is worthless.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 4:37:31 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
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I am going to be purchasing a microscope for high school biology. What would you recommend?
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 7:57:33 PM
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misaham
Posts: 742
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From: Just west of Cleveland, OH
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We bought a stereo/binocular microscope on ebay for our son. It is awesome! You can look at stamps, coins, bugs, 3-D stuff, not just slides. Our son loves bugs, and it is worth the money! I don't have the details on the magnification, etc, but it is amazing the amount of detail that you can see with it.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 10:43:40 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: misaham
We bought a stereo/binocular microscope on ebay for our son. It is awesome! You can look at stamps, coins, bugs, 3-D stuff, not just slides. Our son loves bugs, and it is worth the money! I don't have the details on the magnification, etc, but it is amazing the amount of detail that you can see with it.
Actually, I prefer the lower power (10x) than the higher power (40x) because you can view more area. The stereo effect and the clarity of the optics is why a 10x stereoscope produces incredible views. Imagine your thumb at 10 times it's actual size!
I'm glad that you feel EXACTLY like I do in terms of the terrific value and versatility of a low power stereo microscope.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 11:06:12 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I am going to be purchasing a microscope for high school biology. What would you recommend?
The problem you face is that you must meet certain class level criteria. If the textbook calls for an activity that requires 1000x then you must have a scope with 1000x even though that power is practically useless for most applications... particularly in lower cost scopes.
With the exception of my pleading with parents to NEVER buy a toy microscope in one of those kits you see at toy stores and so-called science stores (Shame on you National Geographic and Discovery Channel!!!), the choice is almost entirely dependent on what you can afford.
The Dual View scope above is my choice for ANY new scope user.. including High School. That particular scope is modular so that you can replace the dual view monocular head with a more professional binocular head without having to replace the entire scope. That's a nice feature.
What you want, at the very least, is a scope with:
Standard DIN objectives.
Wide field eyepiece(s)
Mechanical Stage (A definite "Must Have" with higher power scopes)
Both Fine and Coarse focus.
Condenser with iris diaphram as apposed to a disc diaphram (Not a huge deal if cost is a factor)
Pick out a couple online and let me review them. I'd be more than happy to do so. I can also tell you if they seem to be marked up by a reasonable amount. Even though I know most of the wholesale costs, I don't feel comfortable revealing them. Most dealers seem to have reasonable markups. You want them to make a fair return because we might need them in the future. But, if you see a Manufacturers List Price and then their 'Discounted Price', I'd be more than a bit skeptical. Usually those dealers are outrageously high. Usually there IS no "manufacturer's suggested list price"!!!
I guess what these retailers do is call up the manufacturer and ask, "How much would you sell this for if you wanted to mark it up 400%?" 
You'll also find that many people don't actually stock the scopes themselves. They often drop ship from the U.S. factory warehouse. That's perfectly OK. In fact, it allows them to sell a greater variety of scopes and usually doesn't delay shipment at all. In fact, if you are in a hurry, ask them if they drop ship or stock and if it isn't on their shelf right that minute, just have them drop ship it.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/21/2007 11:14:21 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/21/2007 11:59:13 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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I went to the Apologia web-site to see what microscope they recommend for their biology course. They are selling this one. I can't find where they tell you what magnification the course requires for a microscope, but can e-mail them sometime next week to find out.
I looked up the same microscope on another site. Here it is. It has a magnification up to 400x, so this course doesn't require a 1,000x magnification.
< Message edited by cynthia -- 11/22/2007 12:22:43 AM >
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/22/2007 10:33:37 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I went to the Apologia web-site to see what microscope they recommend for their biology course. They are selling this one. I can't find where they tell you what magnification the course requires for a microscope, but can e-mail them sometime next week to find out.
I looked up the same microscope on another site. Here it is. It has a magnification up to 400x, so this course doesn't require a 1,000x magnification.
Let's first look at the scope itself. Notice that the first site does not include ANY specifications. It simply says you should buy it.  The second site at least gives you some idea of what you will be getting.
What it has...
1) Wide Field Eyepiece
2) DIN objectives. (Standard)
3) Coarse and Fine Adjustment
4) Condensor (Claimed - It's hard to see if that is true)
5) Disc Diaphram for lighting control
It has three objectives, not four. There is no iris (it uses the less expensive disc diaphram to control light). And, no mechanical stage (It's an additional cost option). The first site obfuscates the real cost of the scope by throwing in some trinkets that do cost money; but, shouldn't bring that particular scope to that particular price. The second site's price is getting there until you have to factor in the mechanical stage upgrade.
But, it gets better. Compare this scope at Sams Club at $77.78. I think you will find that it has virtually the identical features of the National scope of the above links. And, in my opinion, even at an independent supplier it shoudn't be outrageously above that. Factor in locating a mechanical stage and adding it to the cost and you should be under $120 for that level of scope.
Is it my optimal scope? No. But, It DEFINITELY WILL work for you and work quite well. The Sam's price and scope is a good value for the money. You can buy a boatload of pipettes and slides for the price difference between the sites you spotted and Sam's.
We have to be fair to the smaller dealers. Sam's Club buys in such quantities that they can often sell an item at about the price smaller dealers pay for it. The smaller dealers have to make some markup to stay in business. But, when you compare the vast difference in prices, then it will give you a hint at their business pricing policies across their entire line of products. Kinda makes you think, doesn't it? 
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/22/2007 10:45:28 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/23/2007 8:04:21 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
It is strange that the Apologia site didn't really tell anything about the microscope. I had to Google it to find a site that actually described the scope.  I just want to know what is required to complete the course. Thank you for the information.
I sent Apologia an e-mail asking them what specifics are necessary on a microscope to complete their biology course. Hopefully they will get back to me on Monday.
Great. :)
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/24/2007 10:15:38 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4984
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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My mom and dad have a really nice microscope that a professor friend at Purdue gave them. My youngest brother and sister did a presentation on how to use it for our homeschool science fair earlier this month, and prepared several slides so we could view them.
They live just down the street from us, so anytime we want to look at something under the microscope we just go down to their house. If we end up moving too far away we may end up having to get our own someday. <sigh>
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/24/2007 4:11:18 PM
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TMeeks
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
My mom and dad have a really nice microscope that a professor friend at Purdue gave them. My youngest brother and sister did a presentation on how to use it for our homeschool science fair earlier this month, and prepared several slides so we could view them.
They live just down the street from us, so anytime we want to look at something under the microscope we just go down to their house. If we end up moving too far away we may end up having to get our own someday. <sigh>
Microscopes are useful to any age group. It's a mistake just to think of them as high school science tools. I use all of my scopes quite a bit; but, the low power stereo microscopes get the most workout.
You get to appreciate the beauty of new bugs as you try to figure out what they are!
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/26/2007 12:13:33 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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I am a bit irritated. This is the e-mail I sent to Apologia and the response they sent back to me:
Subject: Biology microscope
> >To: Help!
> >
> >Please tell me what specifics are necessary on a microscope to complete the
> biology course.
> >Thank you.
> >Cynthia
> >
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Apologia Help Line <help@apologia.com>
> The microscope we recommend and its specifics can be found on our catalog site,
> www.apologia.com.
>
What is up with that?! Meeks, would you mind please telling me specifically what to ask them? I am pretty clueless on this or maybe I don't need to ask them anything else.
< Message edited by cynthia -- 11/28/2007 3:13:08 PM >
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 1:22:56 PM
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TMeeks
Posts: 2115
Joined: 1/27/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cynthia
I am a bit irritated. This is the e-mail I sent to Apologia and the response they sent back to me:
Subject: Biology microscope
> >To: Help!
> >
> >Please tell me what specifics are necessary on a microscope to complete the
> biology course.
> >Thank you.
> >Cynthia
> >
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Apologia Help Line <help@apologia.com>
> The microscope we recommend and its specifics can be found on our catalog site,
> www.apologia.com.
>
> Apologia Ed. Ministries
> Potter's School
> http://redwagontutorials.com
What is up with that?! Meeks, would you mind please telling me specifically what to ask them? I am pretty clueless on this or maybe I don't need to ask them anything else.
Actually, by reading the specs on this page we find that their course requirements can be achieved using a relatively low level student microscope.
Apparently, an oil immersion 1000x lens is not required and all of the features of the scope they sell are simply baseline for a scope.. even though the price, in my opinion, isn't.
You can do better by buying the comparable scope from Sams Club for under $100 or buy stepping up to a microscope with (1) A mechanical stage and (2) Iris diaphram control instead of the simpler, less effective 6 hole disc.
What bothered me about the reply is that it didn't actually answer your question. It simply shoved it back out to you by pointing you to a direction you'd already traveled. I honestly got a "Listen Dummy! Just look at our site and quite asking dumb questions!" kind of feel from it. If I got that kind of question, here is what my reply would be.
"Thank you for contacting us. We're pleased that you are considering using our Biology courseware. And, we agree with you that having the proper microscope is extremely important.
The course simply requires a basic Student Microscope having at least 400x capability. We also recommend that the microscope have both coarse and fine focus adjustments. It's a good idea for the scope to have spring loaded safety lenses and a slip clutch so as to not damage either the prepared slides or the objectives themselves.
We sell a microscope that meets all of our recommentations. The direct link to that product is <<direct link to actual microscope>>. If you have any further questions, please let me know."
I think the people at Apologia might want to read a very nice book on customer service called 'Fish!'. They need to learn to 'BE THERE' for their customers. Just the fact that they sent you to the HOME PAGE of their site and NOT the direct link to the microscope I think shows that 'Being There' isn't one of their strong points. I was very disappointed in their reply. Or, maybe it was just a busy day and they were distracted... sigh... 
I'm as irritated as you are. They can do better than that if they really respect their customers.
I have no ax to grind with them and I don't even fault them for a bit higher markup. Staying in business is important and to stay in business you have to make a profit. But, if you are going to ask a premium price, you should also deliver premium customer service.
< Message edited by TMeeks -- 11/28/2007 3:17:55 PM >
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 4:39:48 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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I just wrote Apologia back and told the guy that I didn't appreciate his response and exactly why not. Hopefully it will help them recognize that they need to be more sensative to the needs of their customers. Who knows, maybe they will also write up something about what kind of microscope is required for the course.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 5:38:37 PM
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cynthia
Posts: 7988
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Beautiful Puget Sound Region
Status: online
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Wow. He sent me back a response telling me I didn't ask the question properly, so how could he know what I needed? I don't like that guy very much right now.
_____________________________
My husband and I have a motto:
We are the leader. We are one.
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RE: How many of you own microscopes? - 11/27/2007 5:48:23 PM
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Ellie-Mae
Posts: 3739
Joined: 4/9/2005
From: The EMPIRE state!
Status: online
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Did you tell him that your ministry (here) requires you to communicate in this media all the time, and I don't think that anyone has NOT understood what you were saying.
...well except for the cat thing, but they weren't trying to understand either.
_____________________________
Please do not PM me about this message, discuss it at the water cooler, or include it in your church bulletins. If you have questions, please keep them to yourself. ~Kerrlaw
W2D1
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