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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/18/2007 3:35:35 PM
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P31W
Posts: 2236
Joined: 6/13/2005
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So Dollar man is not of the Christain faith at all.
I wish there was some way we could take back the name "Christian". We had moonies here last week who professed they were "Christian". 
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/18/2007 4:41:50 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3205
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mdz1122
Okay, REAL TALK! Have you ever had to figure out where your next meal will come from? Had your utilites shut off? Been stressed out trying to figure out you're gonna feed your wife and TWO childern on a check that can barely pay bills? Or maybe wonder how your gonna get a new car because your OLD one is on FIRE in front of you? Or maybe the doctors are trying to tell you that you should abort a baby that GOD ordained and promised because there's a50/50 chance your wife could DIE? I HAVE!!!!!
Do you think God changed between your experience above and your experience below?
quote:
So, here's what I want you to do... tell my NEW EXPEDITION GOD doesn't want ME to prosper. Tell MY WIFE (who's STILL ALIVE) that GOD doesn't want me to prosper. Tell my TWO YEAR OLD DAUGHTER that GOD DOESN'T WANT ME TO PROSPER! And while you're at it... TELL THE MONEY THAT'S COMING TO ME NOW, IN THE NAME OF JESUS, THAT GOD DOESN'T WANT ME TO PROSPER!
I'll answer. He did not.
He has a purpose and a plan for our lives and part of growing us into the people He wants us to be involves trials and tribulations.
33 These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." -John 16
Many want to believe the kingdom is now. This is not heaven. Heaven is the prize that awaits those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and who, with His help, persevere here on earth...those who glorify God in everything, whether sick or healthy, rich or poor.
Financial prosperity and everything being *right* in a life is not necessarily a sign that one is right with God...just as it is not necessarily a sign that one is not right with God if he experiences difficulties and is not rich.
"45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." -Matthew 5
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/19/2007 9:25:19 PM
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FrostySlim
Posts: 6
Joined: 2/20/2007
From: Goldsboro NC
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I'm sorry but i just read the beginnings of this thread about creflo dollar.... i must comment, regardless of what ya'll are talking about now cuz i didn't even read the few above this....
Soxfan... everything you quoted Creflo said is true...all of it is biblical..the bible says he (JESUS) was PERFECTED THROUGH OBEDIENCE.... he wasn't born perfect, he was born innocent... just like ADAM....
I don't see the rediculous comments on this thread as being Godly at ALL, we are NOT to tear down christians we are too lift up people in need..... AND YES, HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF............I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN THESE REDICULOUS COMMENTS TELLING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HE DOES FOR THE HUNGRY AND POOR... ONLY WHAT HE DRIVES AND WHERE HE LIVES BECAUSE YOUR PROBABLY JEALOUS CUZ YOU CAN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS YOURSELF.... (you can, you just don't believe you can)......
i am ashamed of the pathetic humor the few at the beginning of this thread have shown against someone that doesn't believe LIKE THEY DO.. what a sin for someone to teach prosperity, i mean GIVE ME A BREAK..... GO READ YOUR BIBLE.
Jesus said If the world hated me, they will hate you... and obviously they are hatin on Creflo. he may not be perfect BUT NEITHER ARE YOU!!!!.
i will MOST DEFINATELY remember to pray for you.
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/19/2007 10:25:04 PM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1882
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FrostySlim
I'm sorry but i just read the beginnings of this thread about creflo dollar.... i must comment, regardless of what ya'll are talking about now cuz i didn't even read the few above this....
Soxfan... everything you quoted Creflo said is true...all of it is biblical..the bible says he (JESUS) was PERFECTED THROUGH OBEDIENCE.... he wasn't born perfect, he was born innocent... just like ADAM....
Did Jesus sin, then?
2 Cor. 5:21 (NASB) - He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
The scriptures say otherwise. To not sin is to be perfect, correct?
quote:
I don't see the rediculous comments on this thread as being Godly at ALL, we are NOT to tear down christians we are too lift up people in need..... AND YES, HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF............I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN THESE REDICULOUS COMMENTS TELLING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HE DOES FOR THE HUNGRY AND POOR... ONLY WHAT HE DRIVES AND WHERE HE LIVES BECAUSE YOUR PROBABLY JEALOUS CUZ YOU CAN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS YOURSELF.... (you can, you just don't believe you can)......
I desire Christ above earthly wealth and riches. The Bible says not to seek after the things that moth and rust destroy. If one has them, then fine. But why try to defend having them by using scripture? That's ridiculous. God has not called Christians to acquire earthly things. He has called us to be holy according to 1 Thess. 4: 3.
quote:
i am ashamed of the pathetic humor the few at the beginning of this thread have shown against someone that doesn't believe LIKE THEY DO.. what a sin for someone to teach prosperity, i mean GIVE ME A BREAK..... GO READ YOUR BIBLE.
Jesus said If the world hated me, they will hate you... and obviously they are hatin on Creflo. he may not be perfect BUT NEITHER ARE YOU!!!!.
i will MOST DEFINATELY remember to pray for you.
Creflo is teaching heresy. Plain and simple. It has been proven and will continue to be proven.
Why do you defenders of people like him get all upset and bothered?
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/20/2007 10:13:21 AM
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P31W
Posts: 2236
Joined: 6/13/2005
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quote:
HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF..
Most of the first century christians lived in near poverty, were persecuted for their faith and had great blessings from God falling down on them constantly. They were a true blessing to those around them.
Today I am blessed by those same types of people all the time.(people who are greatly blessed by the Lord and live in near poverty) They do many wonderful things for me. They teach me what happiness is. It's not about the "stuff" you have it's about the people you have in your life and your relationship with the Lord. It's about helping others know God.
The WOF group have made "blessings" something material. That is not what a 'blessing is" . A "blessing" is knowing God and being in right standing with him.
Yesterday a preacher said if we are not careful we will have an action or a character flaw or sin in our life. If we are not careful we will let that action/sin/character flaw form for us a theology that allowed us to keep that in our life.
That's what I see happening here and in other places. People don't want to give up worldly possessions or the dream of having it so they seek out for themselves doctrines and preachers/teachers who will allow them to keep that which they worship.
You can't serve both God and money.
The pastor told of a good friend of his who was extremely sly. Before long his friend became a "hyper-calvanist" and didn't believe we should witness to people any more because we might be stepping in where God does not want us to be. The preacher believed this man formed his new theology "because" he was shy and in his heart was too chicken to tell anyone about Christ.
I related to this so well because in college my best friend was going to be a missionary in a foreign country. After college she was offered a very high paying job and an new Lexus if she would work for a company. It was not long after that she called me to say she was a Calvanist and no longer believed she was being called to the mission field. That was 15 years ago. Today she does not even read her bible or attend any king of chruch. Her children have never been part of a church and have some really messed up views of God and salvation.
< Message edited by P31W -- 4/20/2007 10:16:48 AM >
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/20/2007 10:27:52 AM
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TheosCentric
Posts: 1882
Joined: 2/26/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: P31W
quote:
HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF..
Most of the first century christians lived in near poverty, were persecuted for their faith and had great blessings from God falling down on them constantly. They were a true blessing to those around them.
Today I am blessed by those same types of people all the time.(people who are greatly blessed by the Lord and live in near poverty) They do many wonderful things for me. They teach me what happiness is. It's not about the "stuff" you have it's about the people you have in your life and your relationship with the Lord. It's about helping others know God.
The WOF group have made "blessings" something material. That is not what a 'blessing is" . A "blessing" is knowing God and being in right standing with him.
Yesterday a preacher said if we are not careful we will have an action or a character flaw or sin in our life. If we are not careful we will let that action/sin/character flaw form for us a theology that allowed us to keep that in our life.
That's what I see happening here and in other places. People don't want to give up worldly possessions or the dream of having it so they seek out for themselves doctrines and preachers/teachers who will allow them to keep that which they worship.
You can't serve both God and money.
The pastor told of a good friend of his who was extremely sly. Before long his friend became a "hyper-calvanist" and didn't believe we should witness to people any more because we might be stepping in where God does not want us to be. The preacher believed this man formed his new theology "because" he was shy and in his heart was too chicken to tell anyone about Christ.
I related to this so well because in college my best friend was going to be a missionary in a foreign country. After college she was offered a very high paying job and an new Lexus if she would work for a company. It was not long after that she called me to say she was a Calvanist and no longer believed she was being called to the mission field. That was 15 years ago. Today she does not even read her bible or attend any king of chruch. Her children have never been part of a church and have some really messed up views of God and salvation.
What does Calvinism have to with this thread? These are very minority views in Calvinism and should not be expressed in this thread.
_____________________________
"Missions exists because worship doesn't." -- John Piper, Let the Nations be Glad
God at the Center - Latest post - John 3:16 conference?
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/20/2007 11:47:55 AM
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Ps103
Posts: 11601
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
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quote:
What does Calvinism have to with this thread?
Nothing. Please stick to the topic: Creflo Dollar.
Thanks.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/20/2007 12:17:29 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
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Frostyslim:
quote:
Soxfan... everything you quoted Creflo said is true...all of it is biblical..the bible says he (JESUS) was PERFECTED THROUGH OBEDIENCE.... he wasn't born perfect, he was born innocent... just like ADAM....
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 14 The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 8:58 “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I Am!”
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Jesus Christ is God, and has therefore existed throughout all eternity. Since Jesus Christ is God in the flesh and was born fully God, fully man - the only conclusion to be made from your statement is that the god you are talking about needed to be 'perfected' and is not the same yesterday, today, and forever. That belief falls way outside the boundaries of Christianity.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY begotten Son of God, and He was/is God manifest in the flesh. He is the God of the Holy Bible, and He is perfect yesterday, today, and forever. He is not just like Adam. He is God Almighty.
Questions: Where does the Bible say Jesus Christ was needed to be perfected through obediance to 'become' God? Where does the Bible indicate that Jesus Christ was not always God? Please provide scriptural evidence. Thanks.
quote:
I don't see the rediculous comments on this thread as being Godly at ALL, we are NOT to tear down christians we are too lift up people in need.....
We're telling the truth about the lies Creflo Dollar preaches. Christians aren't supposed 'lift up' false doctrine and false teachers:
Eph 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible.
Titus 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it. 10 For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach – and that for the sake of dishonest gain.
2 Jn 1:9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. 11 Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.
quote:
.... AND YES, HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF...
Mk 12:42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent. 43 And calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on.”
2 Cor 8:1 Now, brethren, we wish to make known to you the grace of God which has been given in the churches of Macedonia, 2 that in a great ordeal of affliction their abundance of joy and their deep poverty overflowed in the wealth of their liberality.
1 Cor 4:11 To this present hour we are both hungry and thirsty, and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homelesss.
Lk 6:20 "Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. 21 Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied.
Imagine that. Even those in poverty can be both blessed and a blessing to others. No one is saying that faith equals poverty, but the Bible clearly does not teach that faith equals guaranteed prosperity, either.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/20/2007 12:33:28 PM >
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/20/2007 4:28:25 PM
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shelaughed
Posts: 244
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LW, you asked me to reply on this thread to this post:
quote:
Whatever else he preaches is a moot point because he's preaching the wrong Jesus Christ to begin with, and for that he falls into the same category as Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses: non-Christian. That sermon is still on his website today which means he still supports it and is attempting to spread the lie even further. Do you honestly not understand the severity of denying Jesus Christ coming in the flesh? According to the Bible, he's an anti-christ and should not be listened to at all. If you want to discuss Creflo Dollar any further, I will be happy to continue this in the Creflo Dollar thread. Thanks.
First let me say this: I do not agree with Dollars teaching. But my question is this:
Why isn't "whatever else he preaches" the point?
When he (and others) twist scripture (as has been so pointed out in this thread) by "scripture shopping" to make his point relevant; how is taking one sermon and basing Dollars minister on it?
By saying its still on his site...doesn't convince me that this is how he really thinks about Jesus. It boggles my mind that he said it in the first place. That anyone who professes Christ can say....he wasn't 100% God AND 100% human....i can't wrap my head around that.
_____________________________
~~Shelly - http://shellysspot.blogspot.com
If you can't say AMEN, you outta say OUCH!
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/21/2007 1:38:23 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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hi shelaughed. Thanks for your response.
quote:
Why isn't "whatever else he preaches" the point?
Why should anything else Creflo Dollar teaches matter to Christians when Dollar is not even Christian himself? Why should the Christian community welcome, tolerate, or learn from someone who denies the very God they worship??
quote:
When he (and others) twist scripture (as has been so pointed out in this thread) by "scripture shopping" to make his point relevant; how is taking one sermon and basing Dollars minister on it?
Because that one sermon demonstrates that he's against Jesus Christ. His whole foundation is built on an anti-christ lie which will taint other areas of his doctrine. It doesn't matter how much he preaches 'Jesus' or 'salvation' because he's preaching a false christ who cannot save a soul. According to the Bible, he should be flat out rejected.
quote:
By saying its still on his site...doesn't convince me that this is how he really thinks about Jesus.
Why not? If I told you I believe the sky was green, wouldn't this be proof that I believe the sky is green?? It's completely his choice to have it on his own website. I'm simply taking him at his word that this is what he believes and teaches, and I can see no reason to think otherwise. It's an error of colossal proportions, and if he had truly repented or changed his mind about denying Christ, that sermon would not be there. Instead, he would have publically apologized profusely rather than continue to peddle a false christ. But I don't see that happening. Do you?
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/21/2007 2:06:09 AM >
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/21/2007 4:41:02 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1131
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FrostySlim
Soxfan... everything you quoted Creflo said is true...all of it is biblical..the bible says he (JESUS) was PERFECTED THROUGH OBEDIENCE.... he wasn't born perfect, he was born innocent... just like ADAM....
Scripture, please. This claim is totally and, almost laughably, false.
quote:
I don't see the rediculous comments on this thread as being Godly at ALL, we are NOT to tear down christians we are too lift up people in need
To qualify as a Christian you must first believe in the Christ as revealed in scripture. Mr. Dollar is a heretic of the first order and the Jesus he preaches may saound like the one revealed in scripture, but it is not.
Also, telling the truth about someone is not "tearing them down," unless by that you mean telling the truth on them.
quote:
AND YES, HOW CAN YOU BE A BLESSING UNLESS YOUR BLESSED YOURSELF............I DON'T SEE ANYONE IN THESE REDICULOUS COMMENTS TELLING ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HE DOES FOR THE HUNGRY AND POOR...
OK, so if he feeds a lot of hungry people who still wind up in Hell because they believed in the wrong Jesus, then we should cut Dollar some slack, is that your point? Well, it is, quite frankly, disturbing that a full belly is supposed to make up for a lost soul.
quote:
ONLY WHAT HE DRIVES AND WHERE HE LIVES BECAUSE YOUR PROBABLY JEALOUS CUZ YOU CAN'T HAVE THOSE THINGS YOURSELF.... (you can, you just don't believe you can)......
No, if you would have read the rest of the thread, you would have sen that the bulk fo our problem wit this person is his systematic and deliberate false teaching. If you feel you can defend it with scripture then be my guest. If not, then rest in the irony that you are now, with this comment, doing the same thing you accuse us of.
quote:
i am ashamed of the pathetic humor the few at the beginning of this thread have shown against someone that doesn't believe LIKE THEY DO.. what a sin for someone to teach prosperity, i mean GIVE ME A BREAK..... GO READ YOUR BIBLE.
I am ashamed that a person who obviously can not give a scriptural argument for the tripe put forward here would tell me to go read the Bible when it is the Bible that has been used to refute each of Heretic Dollar's teachings. Again, if you have a scriptural arguemnt, give it.
quote:
Jesus said If the world hated me, they will hate you... and obviously they are hatin on Creflo. he may not be perfect BUT NEITHER ARE YOU!!!!.
i will MOST DEFINATELY remember to pray for you.
We don't hate him, just his Satanic teachings.
_____________________________
I'm baaaack!
Now, where was that Benny Hinn thread?
Numbah One OG Thread Killa
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/21/2007 6:03:27 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 3172
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
We don't hate him, just his Satanic teachings .
_____________________________
Amen Bro_Shane
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/22/2007 10:21:57 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15179
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Because that one sermon demonstrates that he's against Jesus Christ. His whole foundation is built on an anti-christ lie which will taint other areas of his doctrine. It doesn't matter how much he preaches 'Jesus' or 'salvation' because he's preaching a false christ who cannot save a soul. According to the Bible, he should be flat out rejected.
First of all I'd like to make certain I'm understood. I'm not denying that Creflo said anything like this. I'm not saying that he was misunderstood. And I'm not saying that his words were taken out of context. Now that we know what I'm not saying, I have one question. How does this teaching (which is teaching falsehoods about Christ) lead you to say he's teaching a false Christ? We went over this in the WOF thread, and I'm still confused. You can't take someone that's teaching something with which you disagree and claim that everything they teach is tainted because of that one thing. If he teaches that Jesus is the only way to the Father (which Jesus said and is taken directly from the bible) you're saying that he is talking about another dude named Jesus and not our Savior. That is wrong. According to the quotes I see here (and I don't watch or listen to Creflo Dollar enough to have actually heard this, but I won't argue its validity) he's teaching falsehoods about Christ. But he's not teaching a false Christ. BTW, I'm finished with the verses you gave me about KC, and my conclusion is the same. I stand against any false teachings about Christ, but I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
_____________________________
Good question, you think?
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/23/2007 12:09:26 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 786
Joined: 1/23/2006
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well if money was the key that showed we are blessed, I guess then the following people are saints -
Donald Trump
Hugh Hefner
God says he rains on the just and the unjust. Having lots of money doesn't prove you are blessed, it just means you managed to have a lot of money.
_____________________________
I will extol Thee, my God, O King, and I will bless Thy name forever and ever. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and His greatness is unsearchable" (Psalm 145: 1 & 3)
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/23/2007 12:20:01 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 786
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
you and your Expedition
guess what? Unless you won the Expedition in a game show or lottery, you are paying for the Expedition. Thats not necessarily a blessing - because you are making car payments on it. You could have used that $300 a month car payment on something else, or theExpedition. Its realy not a blessing - its just that you chose to have a big car, maybe you need a big car for your family. so you are choosing a bigger car with a bigger payment, thats all. to me, thats not a blessing.
Or, you could say you are rich because you have a million dollar house. Well if someone gave it to you, mortgage paid, I'd say that was a blessing.. but if you are making payments on that house, you are just someone who is choosing to pay money on a house rather than rent. Wheres' the blessing? so, you have a million dollar house and I have a $250,000 house,, big deal. its just a place tohang your hat and furniture. Your just paying more than me. Big woop!
Id say the blessing is that your wife is in good health. No one has control over their health if their health decides to get sick. Your body can turn on you in a minute and give you some kind of weird disease that no matter how much money you have, you cant buy health. I mean, you can pay for surgery, or pay for better drugs, but hey people have died fighting cancer.. so if you have great health thats a blessing.
_____________________________
I will extol Thee, my God, O King, and I will bless Thy name forever and ever. Great is the Lord and greatly to be praised, and His greatness is unsearchable" (Psalm 145: 1 & 3)
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/23/2007 1:33:41 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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Hi armydude:
quote:
How does this teaching (which is teaching falsehoods about Christ) lead you to say he's teaching a false Christ? We went over this in the WOF thread, and I'm still confused.
Creflo Dollar: Jesus Christ did not come as God but as a man who grew into Sonship and perfection. After 30 years of growing and being perfected, God confirmed Jesus’ sonship… and that’s exactly what He wants to do with us.
Holy Bible: Jesus was, is, and always will be God. He is eternal, eternally perfect, and God’s only begotten Son.
Questions:
1. Does the ‘Christ’ of Creflo Dollar match the description of the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible? Yes or no.
2. If the ‘Christ’ being described is not the same Jesus Christ as described in the Holy Bible, how is that not a false Christ? Please explain.
3. If the ‘Christ’ being worshipped is not the same Biblical Jesus Christ, how will faith in that different [false] ‘Christ’ save anyone? Please explain.
quote:
If he teaches that Jesus is the only way to the Father (which Jesus said and is taken directly from the bible) you're saying that he is talking about another dude named Jesus and not our Savior. That is wrong.
Mormonism also teaches that their ‘Jesus Christ’ is the Son of God and the only way to the Father. From the official Mormon website:
“Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. He is the Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever.”
Sound familar?
Questions:
1. What exactly does stating ‘Jesus is the only way to the Father' prove when it’s not the Biblical Jesus in the first place?
2. If you believe Mormonism to be a non-Christian cult and a false religion because of their false teachings, please explain why the same Biblical standards should not be applied to the Creflo Dollars and Kenneth Copelands of this world. Thanks.
quote:
You can't take someone that's teaching something with which you disagree and claim that everything they teach is tainted because of that one thing.
I stand against any false teachings about Christ, but I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bathwater.
For the record, I said this: "His whole foundation is built on an anti-christ lie which will taint other areas of his doctrine." Creflo Dollar could preach the sky is blue on a day when the sky was, in fact, blue, and he would be telling the truth. Doesn't erase the fact that the Bible describes him as a false teacher and an anti-Christ... which effectively rules him out as a Christian and a Christian teacher.
The Bible commands Christians to reject false teachers completely - do not listen to them, have nothing to do with them, and do not share in their wicked work. It's for your own protection. The choice is yours, though.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/24/2007 1:01:03 AM >
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/23/2007 11:34:27 PM
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armydude
Posts: 15179
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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So are you saying that Creflo Dollar is teaching a Mormon version of Jesus?
Now I'm really listening as much as it seems as though I'm arguing. I just want to make sure of what I'm reading.
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Good question, you think?
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/24/2007 12:02:26 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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armydude:
quote:
So are you saying that Creflo Dollar is teaching a Mormon version of Jesus?
No. I think the questions I asked above clarifies the point, but I will restate one of them: If Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult because they deny the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, present a different 'Christ', and teach falsely - then why aren't Dollar & Copeland looked at in the same way since they are doing the exact same thing that Mormonism has done, which is to deny the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, present a different 'Christ', and teach falsely. There seems to be a double standard at work. Thanks.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 4/24/2007 12:12:43 AM >
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/24/2007 12:54:09 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
Joined: 7/22/2005
Status: offline
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armydude:
quote:
I've never heard Dollar (not that I see much of him anywhos) or Copeland preaching from the book of Mormon. Not that I know a lot about it, but I'm thinking that would be required, wouldn't it?
I never said that Dollar is teaching Mormonism, so please reread the posts again because I'm not sure where the communication failure is here.
The point: Dollar & Copeland are doing exactly what Mormonism and other non-Christian cults do: Deny Jesus Christ, present a false Christ, and teach falsely. They just happen to do it in different ways.
The questions in post #116 still stand. Can you reconcile them or not? Thanks.
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/24/2007 8:37:03 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1505
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
If Mormonism is considered a non-Christian cult because they deny the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, present a different 'Christ', and teach falsely - then why aren't Dollar & Copeland looked at in the same way since they are doing the exact same thing that Mormonism has done, which is to deny the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible, present a different 'Christ', and teach falsely. There seems to be a double standard at work. Thanks.
I've never heard Dollar (not that I see much of him anywhos) or Copeland preaching from the book of Mormon. Not that I know a lot about it, but I'm thinking that would be required, wouldn't it? 
armydude,
lw9 has said over and over that Dollar does not teach a Mormon version of Christ. Rather that Dollar teaches a DIFFERENT Christ than the Christ of the Holy Bible. What matters is that it is a FALSE Christ.
A false Christ is a false Christ, no matter how He is incorrectly taught. Dollar's teaching that Jesus was not fully God and had to "grow" into His "sonship" cannot be just tossed aside as being a "little off" theologically. We need to call it for what it is...HERESY.
her·e·sy (noun) religion an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching, especially one that is officially condemned by a religious authority
The fact that this sermon is still listed on his website leads me to belive that he still supports this belief.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Creflo Dollar - 4/26/2007 10:25:56 AM
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armydude
Posts: 15179
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Creflo Dollar: Jesus Christ did not come as God but as a man who grew into Sonship and perfection. After 30 years of growing and being perfected, God confirmed Jesus’ sonship… and that’s exactly what He wants to do with us. When I read the words, "confirmed Jesus' sonship", I'm seeing that God confirmed what was already there. But that statement contradicts the rest of his statement. Interesting. quote:
Questions:
1. Does the ‘Christ’ of Creflo Dollar match the description of the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible? Yes or no.
2. If the ‘Christ’ being described is not the same Jesus Christ as described in the Holy Bible, how is that not a false Christ? Please explain.
3. If the ‘Christ’ being worshipped is not the same Biblical Jesus Christ, how will faith in that different [false] ‘Christ’ save anyone? Please explain. In answering your first question, I'll go back to what I've said before. You (apparently) rejected what I said, but my question still stands too. Do you realize how many times I've been told that "Jesus would never have done this," and from that the person made the (rather big) jump to saying I was presenting a false Christ? I'm not going over the issues I presented again, much less adding to the list, because that would cloud the issue. Actually that answers all of them. If you instantly say that he's presenting a false Christ, then I'm afraid you could miss something. And that's a true shame.quote:
Mormonism also teaches that their ‘Jesus Christ’ is the Son of God and the only way to the Father. From the official Mormon website:
“Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. He is the Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever.”
Sound familar? Yes it does. I've heard the same thing preached from Baptist pulpits for ten years. I also heard the same thing preached from Adventist (not SDA) pulpits for about five years | | |
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