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When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/25/2008 10:46:47 PM
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Preludeian
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Reading through many of threads/posts it occured to me to wonder when does God consider us Married/Bound to our mate? Throughout time and to this very day there have/is a thousand customs for binding one to another in marriage. These are MANS customs and ceremonies for binding two flesh into one. When does GOD consider you bound as one flesh? Let us start from the very beginning, Adam and Eve. Clearly, there was no ceremony or custom for binding them as one flesh but it is written: quote:
Genesis 2:23-24 "The man said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman,' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh. With God's own hand he created woman to accompany man. You see 'direct' involvement that God brought these two together to be as one yet no ritual of ceremony was ever done. Yet the Lord looked upon Adam and Eve as married/bound to one another. Moving on... For Isaac and Rebekah it is written: quote:
Genesis 24:7 "The Lord, the God of heaven, Who took me from my father's house, from the land of my family and my birth, Who spoke to me and swore to me, saying, To your offspring I will give this land--He will send His Angel before you, and you will take a wife from there for my son. add Genesis 24:12-24 "12And he said, O Lord, God of my master Abraham, I pray You, cause me to meet with good success today, and show kindness to my master Abraham. See, I stand here by the well of water, and the daughters of the men of the city are coming to draw water. And let it so be that the girl to whom I say, I pray you, let down your jar that I may drink, and she replies, Drink, and I will give your camels drink also--let her be the one whom You have selected and appointed and indicated for Your servant Isaac [to be a wife to him]; and by it I shall know that You have shown kindness and faithfulness to my master. Before he had finished speaking, behold, out came Rebekah, who was the daughter of Bethuel son of Milcah, who was the wife of Nahor the brother of Abraham, with her water jar on her shoulder. the girl was very beautiful and attractive, chaste and modest, and unmarried. And she went down to the well, filled her water jar, and came up. And the servant ran to meet her, and said, I pray you, let me drink a little water from your water jar. And she said, Drink, my lord; and she quickly let down her jar onto her hand and gave him a drink. When she had given him a drink, she said, I will draw water for your camels also, until they finish drinking. So she quickly emptied her jar into the trough and ran again to the well and drew water for all his camels. The man stood gazing at her in silence, waiting to know if the Lord had made his trip prosperous. And when the camels had finished drinking, the man took a gold earring or nose ring of half a shekel in weight, and for her hands two bracelets of ten shekels in weight in gold." addquote:
Genesis 24:62-66 "Now Isaac had returned from going to the well Beer-lahai-roi [A well to the Living One Who sees me], for he [now] dwelt in the South country (the Negeb). And Isaac went out to meditate and bow down [in prayer] in the open country in the evening; and he looked up and saw that, behold, the camels were coming. And Rebekah looked up, and when she saw Isaac, she dismounted from the camel. For she [had] said to the servant, Who is that man walking across the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, He is my master. So she took a veil and concealed herself with it. And the servant told Isaac everything that he had done. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah's tent, and he took Rebekah and she became his wife, and he loved her; thus Isaac was comforted after his mother's death" We see God's hand again bringing two into one. Let us not forget we see the first performed ceremony of marriage and a form of 'payment' for a wife. Moving on... Jacob and His Wives: quote:
Genesis 29:14 - 30:10 "Then Laban said to him, Surely you are my bone and my flesh. And [Jacob] stayed with him a month. Then Laban said to Jacob, Just because you are my relative, should you work for me for nothing? Tell me, what shall your wages be? Now Laban had two daughters; the name of the elder was Leah and the name of the younger was Rachel. Leah's eyes were weak and dull looking, but Rachel was beautiful and attractive. And Jacob loved Rachel; so he said, I will work for you for seven years for Rachel your younger daughter. And Laban said, It is better that I give her to you than to another man. Stay and live with me. And Jacob served seven years for Rachel; and they seemed to him but a few days because of the love he had for her. Finally, Jacob said to Laban, Give me my wife, for my time is completed, so that I may take her to me. And Laban gathered together all the men of the place and made a feast [with drinking]. But when night came, he took Leah his daughter and brought her to [Jacob], who had intercourse with her. And Laban gave Zilpah his maid to his daughter Leah to be her maid. But in the morning [Jacob saw his wife, and] behold, it was Leah! And he said to Laban, What is this you have done to me? Did I not work for you [all those seven years] for Rachel? Why then have you deceived and cheated and thrown me down [like this]? And Laban said, It is not permitted in our country to give the younger [in marriage] before the elder. Finish the [wedding feast] week [for Leah]; then we will give you [Rachel] also, and you shall work for me yet seven more years in return. So Jacob complied and fulfilled [Leah's] week; then [Laban] gave him Rachel his daughter as his wife. (And Laban gave Bilhah his maid to Rachel his daughter to be her maid.) And Jacob lived with Rachel also as his wife, and he loved Rachel more than Leah and served [Laban] another seven years [for her]. And when the Lord saw that Leah was despised, He made her able to bear children, but Rachel was barren. And Leah became pregnant and bore a son and named him Reuben [See, a son!]; for she said, Because the Lord has seen my humiliation and affliction; now my husband will love me. [Leah] became pregnant again and bore a son and said, Because the Lord heard that I am despised, He has given me this son also; and she named him Simeon [God hears]. And she became pregnant again and bore a son and said, Now this time will my husband be a companion to me, for I have borne him three sons. Therefore he was named Levi [companion]. Again she conceived and bore a son, and she said, Now will I praise the Lord! So she called his name Judah [praise]; then [for a time] she ceased bearing. When Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children, she envied her sister, and said to Jacob, Give me children, or else I will die! And Jacob became very angry with Rachel and he said, Am I in God's stead, Who has denied you children? And she said, See here, take my maid Bilhah and have intercourse with her; and [when the baby comes] she shall deliver it upon my knees, that I by her may also have children. And she gave him Bilhah her maid as a [secondary] wife, and Jacob had intercourse with her. And Bilhah became pregnant and bore Jacob a son. And Rachel said, God has judged and vindicated me, and has heard my plea and has given me a son; so she named him Dan [judged]. And Bilhah, Rachel's maid, conceived again and bore Jacob a second son. And Rachel said, With mighty wrestlings [in prayer to God] I have struggled with my sister and have prevailed; so she named him [this second son Bilhah bore] Naphtali [struggled]. When Leah saw that she had ceased to bear, she gave Zilpah her maid to Jacob as a [secondary] wife. And Zilpah, Leah's maid, bore Jacob a son" Again we see Gods direct involvment in the bringing together of Man and Woman. However, God allows multiple wives for Jacob and views them as married/bound. Jesus said God's plan from the beginning was One Man and One Woman. Please note a form of 'payment' and a act of ceremony in this story. There are so many more stories within the Bible associated with marriage I could type for hours but I feel these will suffice. I give these three different examples to ask the question. If God is the author of Marriage, when does God write that you are bound to your wife? We live in times where premarital relationships exist on an increasing level. Equally, couples will live together for years upon years without ever performing a ceremony or signing paper. They exist together as if they had been bound though. Are we bound to our spouse within our hearts or is it by act of ceremony? Our Definition of Marriage is mar·riage –noun .: the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. .: the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage. .: the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. .: a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage. .: Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock. If this is our definition what is Gods? Our definition would seem irrelevant for he is the original author.
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/25/2008 11:36:28 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE In our forums marriage will be defined as follows: A union between a man and a woman as recognized by state and federal laws. (We do not consider same-gender unions to be marriage in our community.) Having sex with someone of the opposite gender does not make you married. God calls it sin. Sustained and forceful arguments to the contrary will be considered a violation of our Terms of Service and may result in further action up to and including a ban from the site. Tricia Forums Moderator Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/26/2008 7:31:26 AM
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10SNE1?
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Well, given the guidelines of this community I'm not sure how far this discussion can go. However, I think it could be a great one. Boy meets girl, boy and girl have sex.... Boy and girl break up... Boy meets new girl, they want to get married. Is boy single in God's eyes? Or is boy bound, in God's eyes to the girl with whom he had intercourse? No doubt folks will have very strong opinions on that ( and note that I didn't give mine so please don't assume).
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/26/2008 8:26:16 AM
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hispen
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Regarding the op, just because God said 'and the two shall become one flesh' doesn't mean that any two who have intercourse are considered one in God's eyes. Marriage is one man and one woman and premarital sex is sin. Always was, always will be. [Edited by moderator - discussing mod action]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 8/26/2008 12:28:10 PM >
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His Pen "The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue." II Samuel 23:2
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/26/2008 11:08:36 AM
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huckfinn327
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Greetings Preludeian, I believe a public wedding ceremony took place in the Garden (in the public witness of God, Eve, and nature) when Adam publically took Eve with his words: "This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; and God solemized the public wedding with His words: "Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh." The first public wedding began in the Garden and mankind has "always" had some form of "public-ceremony" such as the public "Tent-Ceremony" of Isaac and Jacob. Thus ... Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and when one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony. You may be interested in the free ebook I offer at the web site below ... where I give a chapter to this subject. Huckfinn, Baptist pastor
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NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/27/2008 12:05:30 AM
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4IMPersuaded
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You know, I have had this same question cross my mind from time to time. I think that it is indisputable that we as believers are meant to follow the legal authority of the land as it agrees with God's word (for instance I don't beleive that God intended us to harm others if it were included in the law). Having said that, you are correct-- customs regarding the marriage of a man and a woman vary from culture to culture. Let's consider the animal kingdom for a moment. There are certain species that mate for life. How do they know that they are mated? On some level, they commit to live their lives together, procreate together and raise their young together. Whatever the custom of the authority that you live under, there is a common theme regarding a husband and wife. There is some form of public declaration and a formal commitment to live together. Everyone who knows the couple are aware that they have made this commitment. It is a covenant, a contract. It is the intent of their heart and the decision of their mind. Couples that move in together and begin living as if they are married have not made this sort of covenant and are not married until they do. Now, this is just my opinion. I'm sure there are many in this community that could argue the point better.
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/27/2008 8:26:25 AM
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Wild-Rose
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quote:
Is boy single in God's eyes? Or is boy bound, in God's eyes to the girl with whom he had intercourse? This would be a sin - fornication. Sin does not equal marriage. People are not married until they actually are married according to the laws of the land.
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Wild-Rose Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/27/2008 12:30:25 PM
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DaveW
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Marriage is described in scripture as a covenant. In the ancient near east, a covenant was in force when the 2 parties agreed and publicly declared that agreement. The covenant is that agreement itself, and NOT the benefits and requirements that accompany it. That is why just having sex does not make a marriage, biblically speaking. Each culture has its own ways of making a public statement of the commitment, and scripture says we are to obey the laws of the land insomuch as they do not negate or violate scripture. In the US, when a couple speaks their vows before a minister, rabbi or judge and he/she says "I now pronounce you husband and wife," you are married in God's eyes.
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Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months! We are now grandparents TWICE!! ==================================== Our CD is now available here: http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/27/2008 12:58:48 PM
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Preludeian
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quote:
Marriage is described in scripture as a covenant. In the ancient near east, a covenant was in force when the 2 parties agreed and publicly declared that agreement. The covenant is that agreement itself, and NOT the benefits and requirements that accompany it. That is why just having sex does not make a marriage, biblically speaking. Each culture has its own ways of making a public statement of the commitment, and scripture says we are to obey the laws of the land insomuch as they do not negate or violate scripture. In the US, when a couple speaks their vows before a minister, rabbi or judge and he/she says "I now pronounce you husband and wife," you are married in God's eyes. This sounds right to me. ---------- quote:
We live in times where premarital relationships exist on an increasing level. Equally, couples will live together for years upon years without ever performing a ceremony or signing paper. They exist together as if they had been bound though. I suppose I should of wrote this as, "couples enjoying the lifestyles and gifts commonly associated with marriage without having ever rightfully commited to each other in a ceremonial custom.
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/29/2008 3:19:16 PM
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p.progress
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quote:
Are we bound to our spouse within our hearts or is it by act of ceremony? The wife is bound to her husband, by the law of her husband, which is the law of God, which law was ordained By God and preceded the 'law' (the same law) given at Sinai, and will remain in force evidently, until the end of the age (this present world). This binding or fusing of the twain into "one-flesh", is something God does in his power, which is set in 'concrete' (endures) for the life of the husband. The creating of the "one-flesh" union and relationship between a man and his wife, is not the samething as what we call 'marriage'. The meaning of the word 'marriage' or 'wedding' or 'nuptials' (nuptials is not the consumation time later on as some think) in essence means 'ceremony'. The word marriage takes in the idea of celebrating an occasion in a festive manner. The marriage/ceremony, the practice of celebrating the traditions and rituals woven within the ceremony, are to be found (I suspect) in every nation and culture across the globe and. The main thing with a wedding or marriage ceremony, is the celebration of the decision that the father has made to give his daughter (in marriage) to the man that sought his permission to take her as his wife. This is not the main focus today in the western nations (and perhaps anywhere any more), the focus has shifted to that of the bride. That is another story. So according to the Scripture's own testimony, the wife becomes bound...in a "one-flesh" union indeed to her husband, AFTER she has been GIVEN TO HIM by her FATHER, and he takes her and enters her in a physical act ("knows her"). The ceremony has nothing to do with this core and most intrinsic process. The ritual, ceremony and celebration of marriage is merely the 'window dressing' or 'icing on the cake (so to speak), to what is of greater weight, the giving and taking of a wife. There is nothing wrong with this, it just isn't what God commands or requires in the making of twain 'one-flesh'. - though he will not do so until the essential elements have been taken care of first and afterwards: that of the "giving" of the daughter "to wife"; and later their physical consumation of that covenant established by the father and the man (or the man's father). So in a way it is certainly true that 'marriage' - not the one-flesh union - is or has become more than a social tradition developed over time, it has become as well a legal recognition of what the parties have already agreed upon and will complete in time...that is If they desire, file for and obtain a certificate of 'marraige'. But none of this is required either by the state or more, much more importantly neither required by God. For it is certain that many now have all the do-called 'legal' 'right' to 'marry' legally as they suppose; BUT are NOT "one-flesh", but live in adultery or fornication in the sight of God, because they did not and are not qualified to become one-flesh, as they are either one-flesh already with another, or they were forbidden to to unite as man and wife by their parents (a parent) - but feigned this by a 'legal' marriage did so in rebellion to their will...love struck or not.
< Message edited by p.progress -- 8/29/2008 6:25:00 PM >
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/30/2008 11:56:01 AM
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shadowspring
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quote:
So according to the Scripture's own testimony, the wife becomes bound...in a "one-flesh" union indeed to her husband, AFTER she has been GIVEN TO HIM by her FATHER, and he takes her and enters her in a physical act ("knows her"). So fatherless women cannot marry? Is it different in your estimation if the father is dead or has just abandoned his daughter(s)? Actually I don't really want an answer to this question, I just wanted to point out the folly of this patriarchal notion that women are not persons before God in their own right and only exist under the authority of a male in God's eyes. I would be doomed to non-existence, as my sisters and I were abandoned by our father and I was raised in a single female head-of-household home. Then my mom kicked me out when I was seventeen. There was no authority of any kind in my life beyond the laws of the USA. When I chose to follow Jesus, it was all me and only me involved in that decision. Why, I didn't even have a shepherding movement pastor! And still God loved me, and lovingly cared for me, without any outside human authority at all. My life is one long testimony of the miraculous and abundant love of God! I assure you my (godly) life and my(godly) marriage are acceptable in God's sight.
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"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/30/2008 4:26:07 PM
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p.progress
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quote:
ORIGINAL: shadowspring quote:
So according to the Scripture's own testimony, the wife becomes bound...in a "one-flesh" union indeed to her husband, AFTER she has been GIVEN TO HIM by her FATHER, and he takes her and enters her in a physical act ("knows her"). So fatherless women cannot marry? Is it different in your estimation if the father is dead or has just abandoned his daughter(s)? Actually I don't really want an answer to this question, I just wanted to point out the folly of this patriarchal notion that women are not persons before God in their own right and only exist under the authority of a male in God's eyes. You say: quote:
Actually I don't really want an answer to this question, I just wanted to point out the folly of this patriarchal notion that women are not persons before God in their own right and only exist under the authority of a male in God's eyes. If you want to point out the 'folly' (as you call it) of this statement, you'll have to put aside your personal subjective emotional thoughts and claims, and instead show from clear scripture...as you claim, "...the folly", of what I laid out. As for this non-question of yours: quote:
So fatherless women cannot marry? Is it different in your estimation if the father is dead or has just abandoned his daughter(s)? My estimation? My estimation means nothing, even as your estimation - or "private interpretation" (personal explanation) YOU give here, means nothing. What counts is the Word and will of God in this, as in any matter. But I won't answer you here, since you display an unwillingness to ask or even examine in a mature manner these things, but would rather assume too much, dishonor me and reject hands down WITHOUT investigating what it is that I actually understand about this subject. This is your choice to make of course. So I answer the question (which in itself is a legitimate one) for the sake of those that are more in character to the wise people of ancient Berea, who did not blindly swallow nor OUTRIGHT reject anything Paul said, but instead, received "the word" that he said "...with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" - or NOT so. I am not comparing myself to Paul in any other way here, save in this way: In the context that those who thought what he said was strange, did so cause they never heard before what he was declaring to them to be the truth, and they did not know him as you may think you know Paul. Now with regard to this question: quote:
So fatherless women cannot marry? I'll say it at first this way: Don't ask me, search the scriptures. I'll tell you though what I find it them. In a nutshell: Yes. Of course a fatherless woman can marry. Now if she has a brother...or mother...or aunt...or mother-in-law...or someone else that may rightly or 'lawfully' (hope no one has a problem with that word - if so, that is another lesson) be regarded as a guardian; then let these women defer to their wisdom or decision. I understand as well, due to the difference and fragmented condition of this culture and even that of the professing 'Church', that all this sounds 'strange' to the ears of many. BUt that in and of itself does not translate into it being strange to the truth and will of God - even for mankind in this generation. quote:
Is it different in your estimation if the father is dead or has just abandoned his daughter(s)? Well dead father's can't say 'yea or nay' can they? But the honor that a good and godly daughter has for her deceased father will guide her in any decision I am sure. And a father that has abandoned his daughter (sons and daughters) what might we find in scripture to guide us to see the will of God there? Ishmael was abandoned (at God's command), but he had his mother to seek out a wife for him. And there was Esther. These are a few things that I would consider worthy of consideration. There are more examples, but do your own homework. But if someone wants to reject any and all of these things as I said hands down - we will find out One Day what if any instructions, commands or otherwise Christ and God gave to his people (He is the LORD God of the 'old' covenant, the one who spoke and appeared to Abraham and later Moses). I encourage and provoke as I am instructed in the scriptures, any and all to seek out the answers to all these and other questions about this subject and all other questions on all other subjects. Let us be amiable, ready-minded and sufficiently humble to receive what others say...even if they strike our ears as "strange" at first. See how "strange" Paul's words regarding Christ and the teachings of the Lord sounded to those who had not heard them before, and thus were not familiar with them. Everything that we have never heard of before, or we have heard in passing, but have not personally examined in depth as yet, sounds "strange" to our ears. I understand that. But rather then rejecting them, my understanding of this principle provides wisdom for me, so that I do NOT in a 'knee-jerk' fashion reject them (strange sounding things) BEFORE I have made a diligent inquiry into the scriptures, to see IF "those were so", or NOT "so". I encourage all to do the same. After all, is this not part of what it means to, "Study [be earnest and diligent] to shew thyself approved unto God [not man], a workman [one who sweats in toil] that needeth not to be ashamed [the slothful and obstinate will suffer shame], rightly dividing the word of truth [correctly dissecting the scriptures of truth]." P.P. Pro 14:16 A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident. Ecc 7:5 [It is] better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools. Pro 9:8 Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee. Pro 17:10 A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.
< Message edited by p.progress -- 8/30/2008 4:48:34 PM >
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/31/2008 1:30:09 PM
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shadowspring
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quote:
But I won't answer you here, since you display an unwillingness to ask or even examine in a mature manner these things, but would rather assume too much, dishonor me and reject hands down WITHOUT investigating what it is that I actually understand about this subject. This is your choice to make of course. LOL! I think this personal attack on me for disagreeing with you is way over the top. I am unwilling and immature? I have never investigated the Holy Word of God where patriarchy or marriage are concerned? I suppose you make these assumptions about me because you believe that anyone who is a serious disciple of Jesus and loves His Word will of course agree with you? My testimony, my everyday life, speaks for itself. The Lord and my family , as well as the many others in my sphere of influence can testify to my daily Bible study, prayer and personal worship times, as well as my serving others in love, opening my home to the homeless, giving to the church and the poor, serving in the church and in the world outside the church, my daily commitment to live a life of love for God first and then all others. They joy that God gives me, the way He meets every need of my heart and my life every day, are all the approval I need.
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"Blessed is the man...whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law meditates day and night. He will be like a tree planted by rivers of water..." from Psalm 1
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/31/2008 1:45:04 PM
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bzirk
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What I find interesting about the Genesis passages is that Adam makes a declaration that he is taking Eve as his wife. It seems that any time a marriage is effected in scripture that the bond has been made clear. This is still true today. There can be nothing fuzzy about it -- either someone has made the declaration in front of a witness(es) or has effected a declaration in writing. But regardless, a marriage exsists when the bond is made clear. Just having sex or just talking about becoming married or just living together is typically not enough. Even the majority of state governments in our country recognize that these are not enough to effect a marriage. When my kids have asked me about what it really means to effect a wedding, I have given this example of a declaration and referenced the formal declarations (written or verbal or both) that have been made in the Judeo Christian culture when a couple becomes married. That is why it is alway suspect when someone is unwilling to make this delcaration in a way that makes the bond clear. The only difference with Adam and Eve is obviously they only had the Lord as a witness. Considering we are living after The Fall, the precedent has long been set of effecting a bond where people can hold each other accountable to forging a marriage bond.
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may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so you will abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Romans 15:13 Great quote: I just ain't God and don't know it all. -- SonInMe1
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 8/31/2008 1:47:40 PM
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ta_mosquito
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE Let's keep this thread on topic. If you'd like to continue discussing whether a woman needs the consent of her father (or other authority figure) to marry, please begin a new thread. Thanks! Tricia Forums Moderator Please do not reply to this message within the forums or chat. Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns. Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 9/1/2008 7:25:19 PM
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padivan
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Consider what makes a person unbound in the OT: A bill of divorcement--a legal document. I believe God intended for us to work within the governing authorities that he established. We are not meant to "fly solo" outside of God's design. If we begin to do this then where would it end?
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 9/3/2008 8:17:30 PM
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SuccessinTruth
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This really isn't difficult if your true desire is to understand the Scripture. Many things that happened in the Old Testament were not of God's will. Marriage is spoken of throughout scripture and the formalities changed with the culture, but the spirit of it didn't. We live within the laws of man and are joined together before witnesses in the eyes of God. Get a marriage license, get married. There are more premarital relationships today, there are more homosexual relationships today. Truth doesn't change because the moral decline of a culture. A relationship outside the bonds of marriage is considered fornication, because it's saying "We will NOT marry". It's disobedience and rebellion. My question would be, why do you ask? Is it really because of the way things were done in Genesis six thousand years ago?
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RE: When does God consider us Bound/Married? - 9/13/2008 5:30:42 PM
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divorcingmyself
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I've heard this question asked when one or more parties in a marriage-going-badly are Christians and are wanting to divorce but have no clear Biblical basis for doing so. So, your question is certainly relevant. The legalists will point to OT Scripture concerning marriage laws. Of course, as Christians we are not slaves to the Law (a discussion I'm certain is going on in some other thread). So, OT arguments are not exactly compelling (no disrespect meant to the bro's and sis's that think otherwise). If a government imposes legislation that defines marriage in a way that is contrary to a consistent Scriptural basis, then such a marriage, even if defined so by statute is not a marriage that Christians recognize or endorse or should enter. So just defining marriage as what is recognized by governmental authorities and thinking that this is what God accepts seems to be a dangerous assumption. My only wife demanded that we marry in a courtroom and not a Church (and she says that she is a Christian), does this means that we were not really married in God's perspective because there wasn't an officially-recognized representative of God present? This may not seem nominalistic enough to say so, but I really think that when the parties are clearly Spirit-indwelled Christians (as all who are saved are), they know through the Spirit when they are bound/married. And this is the point when Our Father considers the two to be bound/married. The clearest answer to your question seems to be found by looking at the marriage/bound relationship modeled by Christ and the Church. This isn't exactly distilled water. And what about spiritually "mixed" marriages? How can we actually know the Creator's Thoughts and Considerations? Seems to be a great deal of Scripture addressing this notion and the answer is, we can't. We can know His Moral Will as a general idea by carefully studying Scripture. But His specific definitions, I'm not certain that someone could say that this is possible without entering into a near blasphemous situation and Lucifer's sin.
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