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[Poll]
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What constitutes abuse?
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| Hitting and/or physically hurting someone only |
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| Throwing things at the person and/or around the house? |
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| Cursing, name-calling, vicious words |
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| Degrading, manipulating, mental games |
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| yelling at each other |
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| All of the above |
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| None of the above |
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Total Votes : 117
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(last vote on : 12/12/2009 12:38:47 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 3:31:18 AM
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Anon101
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The violence in the home question made me start thinking about abuse and what constitutes abuse. I see so many varying points of view on this in the forums in different threads I thought I'd condense it to one stop thread for What is abuse? We all know that beating your wife or husband is abuse, but when do words and/or actions become abuse? I know most churches have different stances on this issue/topic, so what does the word of God say? This is a pretty gray area in the bible and not directly addressed.
What do you, as a Christian consider abuse/violence within a marriage?
Edited to add poll. You can choose more than one answer.
< Message edited by Lorilynn777 -- 10/29/2009 4:26:43 AM >
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 6:14:48 AM
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herestoresmysoul
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We do have to be very careful on this, as my husbands exwife was looking for a reason to divorce him and started saying that he was 'abusive' purely becuase he couldnt cope with her controlling manipulative behaviour and used to emotionally withdraw. This, to her was 'abuse' The thing is that he never hit her, he ONCE lost his temper and called her ONE rude word in 23 years of marriage which actually makes him a saint in my book and yet she told peope he was abusive.
He actually hasnt got an abusive bone in his body and is the most patient, easygoing, lovely, kind man I have EVER met and his good name has been made dirty by what she said.Fortunately all of my kids and friends and family adore him.(as I do)
In fact I would say she is abusive by treating him like a joke, putting him down, bossing him around and being totally controlling and manipulative. .
She even went to a weekend for those who have been abused which I actually thought was totally rediculous.She wouldnt know abuse if it hit her in the face(if you will excuse my play on words).
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 6:33:34 AM
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Anon101
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That is why I made this post because what one person defines as "abuse" another defines as normal marital behavior.
When the bible doesn't address this directly and most churches do not address this the whole definition of abuse can become corrupt. I've been reading replies and there are different ideas when someone says the word abuse comes up. Some think if you say abuse that 'you are getting beat up everyday' to some thinking that getting in an argument means abuse or violence. I think we need to define what abuse is in a biblical sense so we are all on the same page.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 6:48:13 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 7526
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I chose everything but yelling at each other. HOwever, that assumes this is "tame" yelling without name calling, degradation, etc.
My church does call all of those abuse. You can be in a situation where you might only be physically hit/hurt every few months but if the other things are going on you probably fear it happening every day or every minute you are with your spouse.
< Message edited by zoebob -- 10/29/2009 10:00:55 AM >
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 6:53:15 AM
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car2ner
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I don't think yelling is abuse. That can happen when emotions are high. If someone doesn't calm down from that, though, it may escalate to throwing things, hitting, etc. So yelling alone may not be abuse but it may be a sign of it.
Manipulation is also part of it. I have seen it in a few children and that scares me because then I can guess that they are learning it at home. Part of the manipulation is the sneaky way they make others feel guilty for their mistakes. The old "they made me loose my temper" ploy. If they can't make others feel guilty they go into an oversized selfpity party.
There are other forms of manipulation as well but this is the most easy to miss.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 7:25:17 AM
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herestoresmysoul
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manipulation is a very sneaky form of abuse, as often those outside the family cannot see it. This is becuause the one doing it is good at portraying themselves as wonderful outside the home but while at home they are in control and very manipulative.Sadly in my husbands ex wives case their two boys aged 26 and 22, have picked up some of this and are also manipulative and rebellious, so this has caused problems for us as I hate it when they try to manipulate their dad, and if I dare say anything I am accused of interferring(not by my husband but by the boys).
My mother in law is also VERY controlling and manipulative, but again to those who dont know her well, she seems lovely.Praise God she lives in Australia, so we dont have to cope with it but she has tried (and failed) to break up our marriage.
It is extreemly hard to be married to a person like this. My husband says it is like constantly banging your head against a brick wall, and the other person wont admit that they do anything wrong and blame everyone else.
< Message edited by herestoresmysoul -- 10/29/2009 7:32:37 AM >
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 7:34:17 AM
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buckifn
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I think the Bible is pretty clear. Love thy neighbor as thyself and Love the Lord thy God with all your heart, soul,and with all your mind.
If you are doing those 2 things there will be NO abuse. I don't see it as a gray area at all.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 8:08:23 AM
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stamper_ben
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One form of abuse missing from above is mental abuse.
quote:
Mental abuse is a bit trickier than verbal abuse. Mental abuse is a pattern of behavior or speech that makes you feel you are being played with, controlled, and intimidated. When you are the victim of mental abuse, you find yourself feeling more and more insecure, less and less vibrant, and more confused; you feel as if you need to ask your partner for permission to do things, buy things, go places. You may even feel that you need to ask permission in regard to your spiritual preferences.
Mental abuse occurs when you are told what to do and when to do it, when you are ordered around as if you were in a prison camp. Mental abuse often comes disguised. For example, the abuser may conveniently have amnesia and twist facts to suit his preferences. Even though you know what you are talking about, the abuser tells you that you are wrong. Or the abuser may say he will do such-and-such, never do it, and then say he doesn’t remember telling you he would do the thing to begin with.
To put it in a nutshell, mental abuse has you scratching your head and wondering if you are losing your mind. You wonder if it’s you, if maybe you’re making a lot of mistakes and hearing things incorrectly. The truth is that when you feel this way, when you find that you consistently question your sanity, you are being mentally abused. Quote from here
So all the above in the poll, including constant yelling, constitutes abuse in my mind.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:01:58 AM
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zoebob
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Buckifn are you saying that if you do those things you won't be abused or you won't abuse?
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:08:19 AM
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mrtigger
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I don't think yelling is abuse.
I think a chronic yeller is abusive.
An occasional argument with loud voices is not abuse.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:13:56 AM
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seagullplayer
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I think there may be a big difference on what me or you might consider abuse and what the law would consider abuse. I also think it is a rather important distinction to make in this type forum.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:19:55 AM
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Katie51
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Its kind of like the stink off a skunk. Hard to describe in words but you know it when you smell it. there is no absolute definition of it. Those who have lived it are painfully aware of what it is...physical and verbal/mental.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:23:41 AM
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zoebob
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mrtigger
quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I don't think yelling is abuse.
I think a chronic yeller is abusive.
An occasional argument with loud voices is not abuse.
That's what I meant when I didn't choose yelling.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:36:25 AM
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Anon101
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I chose not to put the word "abuse" in any of the poll behaviors.
When I refer to yelling at the other person, it is in the sense of yelling, not containing the already addressed behaviors. I edited the poll to make the choices a bit more clear as to what they mean.
< Message edited by Lorilynn777 -- 10/29/2009 9:43:53 AM >
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:45:59 AM
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buckifn
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Buckifn are you saying that if you do those things you won't be abused or you won't abuse?
I am saying God's Word has the answer as to how we are to treat each other. To me that isn't a gray area. It's when we ignore God's word that trouble occurs.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:46:11 AM
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Konstantinos
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I see it as something a bit more complicated or gray than black and white. For example if my gf decided to start hitting me, I doubt I would feel as bad as if I started to hit her. One reason is that I'm quite stronger. But it also depends on the person. To one person maybe hitting them will be seen as you being abusive, to another, not so much.
For example someone may have been disciplined a lot as a child from their parents with spanking. Lets assume that didnt make the person have some trauma or whatever about it and instead just gained a lot of discipline. I'm sure that if that person got physically abused in their marriages, it wouldn't hurt their feelings as much as say someone who was never hit before in their lives.
Anyway, I do have something more general. To me abuse is whatever someone does when they reach a point in your marriage that they decide to be mean in some way. Its like watching an old movie and the husband comes back home drunk. Does it matter if he starts beating his wife or cussing at her and yelling? To me both of those are abuse cause the guy just kind of doesn't care to make things better and instead enjoys doing all of these.
Now, in another scenario. If say some girl is married to the aforementioned drunk and always tries her best to be a good wife despite what he does and at some point breaks down and decides to go physical or cuss back and stuff like that, I wouldn't call it abuse.
There is a big difference in the these two examples. The first is someone who has given up and probably enjoys being abusive, the second is someone who breaks down and their abusive behavior is more of a cry for help or a cry for change.
quote:
I think a chronic yeller is abusive.
Personally, I don't think any kind of chronic "Abusive" behavior is abusive. Maybe a mental illness if you wanna call it so or a really big problem with following some decent standards of society but not necessarily abusive. I'll give you an example. Most of you are probably from the U.S. I'm from Greece. I visited the US once. Now let me tell you in Greece we are generally a lot louder in general. That could mean a lot more people that "chronically" yell or chronically cuss. My point is that someone may be raised differently and if the people around him find the yelling or cussing okay and not hurtful, then why would it be abusive? The same applies to anything that someone's been chronical(?) about.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 9:57:55 AM
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zoebob
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quote:
ORIGINAL: buckifn
quote:
ORIGINAL: zoebob
Buckifn are you saying that if you do those things you won't be abused or you won't abuse?
I am saying God's Word has the answer as to how we are to treat each other. To me that isn't a gray area. It's when we ignore God's word that trouble occurs.
You didn't answer my question. It sounds to me like you are saying that if a person loves their neighbor as themselves and God above all that they won't be abused...so if someone is abused it must be because they aren't doing things right.
Obviously if everyone did those things there would be no abuse. However, when there is does that mean the abused is somehow at fault?
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 12:25:39 PM
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bolt.
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A lot of abuse has to do with a power relationship, and the extent of actions taken to keep the other person under control.
Some people are easy to terrify and control.
Therefore, say, yelling, if it terrifies the other person, and that is known, and the person does it on purpose in order to instigate that terror for their own purposes -- that's abuse. If both people yell, or just one, but neither is terrified or being controlled by a lapse of self control like that, it's different.
Lot's of things are abuse. Odd innocent looking things (like sharpening a knife, throwing out the dog's leash, or repairing the car) can be abuse, if they have known meanings and are open power plays within the relationship.
Some people are harder to terrify or control, and some abusers like the larger displays of power like hitting, stealing or confining... but that's not always the case.
So my definition of abuse is "Any action that is taken for the purpose of exerting or maintaining inappropriate personal control or power over another individual, or which damages the other individual (physically or emotionally) for the sake of the person's (physical or emotional) gratification."
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 12:31:02 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I would just like to ditto Bolt's answer. Well said.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 12:32:56 PM
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stampinlady
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quote:
I chose everything but yelling at each other.
My thoughts too.
I have 2 friends who have gone through with their divorces because of this and both are believers, well, ... I know my friends are, but their spouses that's debatable. As fara as I knwo both have received terrible advice from the same "fundemental" church.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 1:25:03 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: car2ner
I don't think yelling is abuse. Now you have to define "yelling." To my wife, any verbal communication that has a hint of raised emotion to it, even if whispered," is yelling.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 1:46:43 PM
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Liveloved
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Abuse is to live apart from God, Whom you were created to live in relationship with.
It begins with self abuse. . . by not loving God and living in relationship with Him through Jesus.
It follows that all other relationships will also be abusive because they are borne out of the self and not love.
When we are born from above and surrender our life to Him, we live loved and we live love back to God and others. Our focus is no longer 'ourselves' but the Lord and others. The standard is no longer me, what you do to me, what I should or should not tolerate. It is all about Jesus. And He changes everything including the way I view abuse.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 3:00:52 PM
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Italian_Sweetheart
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I guess because my faith is so weak right now, that I am having trouble dealing with the emotional and verbal abuse. I have lived with this for nearly 33 years. I thought hubby was a Christian when I married him in 1977 ( I was saved in 1974). But he got saved in 1985 and life was fine for awhile. But the arguments came back and I wish I had divorced him many years ago when I could have financially. Now we are both old and not in good health. I think of suicide often.
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 3:31:20 PM
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3cappuccinosmom
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One thing that IMO gets left out of the conversation a lot is that in many cases of abuse, there is *mutual* abuse going on. Both parties are abusing each other, allowing themselves to be abused, and relating to each other in ways that keep that fire burning. I think it's especially common when it comes to verbal/emotional abuse. Or, one spouse will use verbal or emotional means to bait the other continuously until that spouse lashes out either in defense, or because they lack the ability to withstand the constant torture, and then the emotionally abusive one will say "See, see! You're the abusive one!"
There is also the problem of one spouse abusing the other by claiming abuse in order to control the relationship. IOW, if there is ever anything said that such a person doesn't want to hear, it's labeled "emotional abuse".
None of this is to say that anyone deserves abuse. But I think it is often way more complicated than just one spouse being 100% evil and the other being 100% the victim. There are cases where that is true, but I have seen myself couples who are both very active in keeping their relationship unhealthy. Either one could probably list abusive behaviors on the part of their spouse, but probably doesn't realize that their own behavior could qualify as abusive too.
< Message edited by 3cappuccinosmom -- 10/29/2009 3:43:13 PM >
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RE: What constitutes abuse? - 10/29/2009 5:07:40 PM
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buckifn
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quote:
You didn't answer my question.
That is because I find that question very offensive and refuse to even entertain such an idea. I will not enter any debate on such a concept.
My answer is what it is. God has given us the answer on the subject of how we are to treat one another and how our relationship is to be with Him. That is not a gray area to me.
If you make something else out of it that is on you, not me.
I don't think it is wise to debate what abuse is or isn't. I think someone struggling with such issues needs to be under direct care of a professional trained to deal with the questions they may have and that should be done face to face not on a public forum.
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