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What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 11:54:27 AM
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Lapidoth
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I'm asking, so please keep it on an 8th grade level. lol.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 1:44:30 PM
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rlj
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I'm not going into this too deep right now but the Latter Rain was a revival or a movement- which I believe and many others was a movement of God. Obviously that debate is like the Energizer bunny in that it keeps going and going and going... ; )
Here is a link that does a fair job of describing it:
http://www.discernment.org/restorat.htm
I like this one because it states the truth about the "Manifest Sons of God" and that it is pretty much rejected unless this has changed post Toronto.
I'm not aware though of any church or fellowship or denomination that follows all of these things verbatim as on the list. These ones were totally opposite of how I was taught:
The belief Christians can be demonized and need to be delivered through the laying on of hands. (If you have the Holy Spirit how can you still be possessed?)
Divine healing is imparted via the laying on of hands It can be but there is no guarantee that it is. If God wants to heal in that way He will and if He doesn't then he doesn't. No WoF stuff involved one way or another.
Emphasis on personal and directive prophecy We accepted this but it wasn't our "emphasis".
Women have a full and equal ministry role in the Church, i.e. women pastors, prophetesses, elders, etc. We didn't like this and generally if women were in leadership it was generall believed that it was only because there were too many male sluggards.
The "song of the Lord" a prophetic song or one in other tongues but interpreted This would fall under the praise and worship or the spiritual gifts. I don't think it should be given it's own category.
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 2:56:15 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
Latter Rain Ministries Today
While few ministries will admit to being "Latter Rain" the fact remains when asked about their practices one quickly sees they practice and endorse eleven of the twelve points outlined previously. Like the old saying goes "if it walks like a duck, quakes like a duck. . . it is a duck." Welp, if a ministry endorses and practices Latter Rain doctrines, then it is a Latter Rain ministry.
Well, there's plenty of stuff to look at for sure.
Thanks
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 2:58:57 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
Latter Rain Doctrine
The following is a brief outline of what constitutes Latter Rain Doctrine:
The practice of laying on of hands to be filled with the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in other tongues).
The practice of laying on of hands to impart spiritual gifts other than tongues.
The belief Christians can be demonized and need to be delivered through the laying on of hands.
The belief that God has now restored all the ministry gifts back to the Church, especially the office of the prophet and apostle {this is where today's prophetic/apostolic move comes from}.
Divine healing is imparted via the laying on of hands
The concept of the restoration of the Tabernacle of David. Praise & Worship emphasized as a means to usher (1) in God's presence and (2) to usher God's people into His presence.
Singing in the spirit congregationally, i.e. in other tongues
The "song of the Lord" a prophetic song or one in other tongues but interpreted
Emphasis on spiritual warfare
Emphasis on personal and directive prophecy
Women have a full and equal ministry role in the Church, i.e. women pastors, prophetesses, elders, etc.
Physical death will be conquered by the manifest sons of God {an extreme view held by a minority within LR circles}.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 3:04:22 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
The belief that God has now restored all the ministry gifts back to the Church, especially the office of the prophet and apostle
Do they think the Holy Spirit took a vacation between the death of the Apostle John and Azuza Street somewhere around 1906?
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 3:41:39 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
The belief that God has now restored all the ministry gifts back to the Church, especially the office of the prophet and apostle
Do they think the Holy Spirit took a vacation between the death of the Apostle John and Azuza Street somewhere around 1906?
I don't know why not, many believe Adonai's Spirirt was napping off and on before Peter spoke during the Feast of Weeks following the ascension.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/27/2008 11:00:12 PM
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bob97
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So man will become divine and godlike on this life…interesting…I must have missed that in my reading of the bible.
Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 4:33:21 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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Eathless, was the spirit of God napping in the 430 years or so between the writing of Malachi and the Birth of Christ? Or do we just not have a faithful account thereof? I'm sure you would agree that the books of the Apocrypha are not of canonical authority (accurate history though they may be).
Lapidoth, the wikipedia article on the Latter Rain movement is relatively comprehensive and (at least somewhat) neutral on the positions of it.
If you don't want to read it, I'll give a brief summary with a little commentary on it.
The Latter Rain movement really took off during the 1950's under the command of guys like Jack Coe and Oral Roberts. During these dynamic healing ministries, they began to put forth doctrine that really captured the imagination of their followers. Some of these included Post Millenialism (the idea that the world will be Christianized prior to the return of Jesus), the idea that the impartation of the Holy Spirit and spiritual gifts can be recieved through the laying on of hands (such as Peter and Paul are seen doing in the book of Acts), and the idea that the church should be organized by location rather than denomination (like the 1st Century church). While you can pick a fight over the eschatology (end times stuff) if you like, there are a couple of "debate magnets" to be found inside the teachings of the Latter Rain movement.
The Manifest Sons of God doctrine taught the idea that in the end-times there would a small group of people inside the church that would become "hyper-spiritual". These people were represented in scripture by "him who overcomes" in the letters to the churches in Revelation. While the extent of the doctrine was argued over between the various minicamps within the Latter Rain movement itself, the most extreme views included these sons of God becoming divine (god-like). The truth of the matter is that God will pour out His spirit in a greater way in the last days (Joel 2, Acts 2)... however, it won't be on a small group within the church. Rather, this outpouring of the spirit is going to face all of the people within the church with the choice to pursue God, or to fall away. As Joel itself says, "I will pour out my spirit on ALL flesh". Also, the teaching of man becoming divine is just... odd. The actual phrase "manifest sons of God" comes from the verse that says that "all creation is groaning as in the pains of childbirth, eagerly awaiting the manifestation of the sons of God."
The other "hot button doctrine" is the Five Fold Ministry. This idea is largely tied to the idea that the church should be grouped by geographic region rather than denominational sects. Basically, you take the five ministries (or offices) listed by Paul in Ephesians 4, and the doctrine teaches that all five have been given to the church. So the doctrine would tell you that the Apostles and Prophets are still valid vocations, just as well as Pastor, Teacher, and Evangelist. Considering that there is no actual Bible to back up the claim that the Apostolic and Prophetic have ceased, I am constantly astounded that there is such a kick against it.
The thing to be remembered is that the Latter Rain movement, just like the Word of Faith movement, has some very valuable things to teach us as well as some massive error to be done away with. Personally, I see great validity in the organization of the church by city or region rather than by denomination... not because I think everyone should be forced into a uniformity of doctrine, but rather because denominationalism has done so much damage to the Body of Christ. So, there is a quick summary of the dreaded Latter Rain movement. It isn't nearly as sinister as people paint it, but it isn't clean as newfallen snow either.
Adam
PS. For the record before anybody throws a fit, the value of the WoF movement is teaching people to place more weight on their words. Yes, the have problems in doctrine (or lack thereof), and the positive of the movement is taken to a very unhealthy extreme... however, teaching people to value their speech more is a needed teaching in the larger church.
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 9:36:43 AM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
The Latter Rain movement really took off during the 1950's under the command of guys like Jack Coe and Oral Roberts. During these dynamic healing ministries...
I only knew one person who made the trip in the early 60s to take advantage of Oral Roberts dynamic healing ministry. The boy died from the leukemia a couple of months later that Oral pronounced completely healed.
The next time I caught Oral was on TV when he announced God was going to kill him if we didn't send in offerings that totaled $3 million dollars.
Those two events seem fitting to describe the whole movement - false claims and love of Mammon.
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 11:29:02 AM
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Lapidoth
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Thanks Adam.
Under the microscope it seems that all the churches are influenced
in one way or another by all these so called movements. I've spent
the last year repenting over my involvements in the doctrines.
"I inherited lies." So, all I can do is repent over them and keep going.
The millennium will be wonderful to be under the rule of the Messiah.
And the world to come absent of all the nonsense will be unimaginable.
I used to try to keep up with what was going on, but found it a waste of time.
To study and search for the real biblical truth seems to be the only weapon
we need against false doctrines. But, it's a lonely path. But, that's okay.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 12:21:41 PM
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colliefan
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Eph 2:19 - 22 (ESV) 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,£ but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by£ the Spirit.
The foundation has been laid. The offices of the Apostles and Prophets have ceased.
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 12:40:17 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Eph 2:19 - 22 (ESV) 19So then you are no longer strangers and aliens,£ but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by£ the Spirit.
The foundation has been laid. The offices of the Apostles and Prophets have ceased.
That would raise an interesting common sense question wouldn't it.
How many foundations do we build building a house?
Once a foundation is laid, everything else is "sticks."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 12:43:06 PM
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Bluethread
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In my opinion, this is just another example of an idiom in the writings of the prophets being used to establish an elitist class. This is based on the theory that the Feast of Weeks(Pentecost) following the ascension was something totally new and different unlike anything that had happened before. Therefore. they assert, we are somehow better or at least better off than our forefathers.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 12:55:58 PM
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Lapidoth
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Hadn't thought of it in that way, but it does make sense.
Gives us another vantage point of the same elephant.
And makes me think of the RT as well.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 2:08:08 PM
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rlj
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quote:
How many foundations do we build building a house?
So when a foundation is poured or the bricks for it laid down what do the workers do then? Pour the driveway, lay the bricks for the patio, put down the basketball court? Perhaps a brick sidewalk? So everything ceases for the bricklayers or cement pourers in a building project the moment a foundation is laid down?
_____________________________
-Roger
This is who I'm voting for. He is from the same party I voted for last time. This is consistent with my belief in the failure of the two party system and my disgust with it.
http://www.baldwin08.com/#
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/28/2008 4:24:17 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
So everything ceases for the bricklayers or cement pourers in a building project the moment a foundation is laid down?
not if one is building a brick home
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RE: What Is "Latter Rain" Theology? - 8/29/2008 1:59:52 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
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quote:
I used to try to keep up with what was going on, but found it a waste of time.
To study and search for the real biblical truth seems to be the only weapon
we need against false doctrines. But, it's a lonely path. But, that's okay. Very true, sir, very true.quote:
The foundation has been laid. The offices of the Apostles and Prophets have ceased. Aside from the fact that your verse doesn't prove your inteded point...
Pavlov would be pleased.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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