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The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/12/2009 9:22:52 PM
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RichLP
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(long read...)
2 weeks ago this Sunday, at the conclusion of worship, I went to the altar to seek prayer. My church's staff is always available for anyone who wants prayer, and I do know my church has a prayer ministry-type group, some of whom I've heard are prophetically gifted (please don't argue or debate; the Lord does give such gifts to some, and I believe some in my fellowship do have it).
Anyway, I was hoping to encounter one of those folks from the prayer ministry, but I didn't. I met... the senior pastor.
I told the senior pastor I had a few issues in my heart - marriage and career. So the pastor prayed. He said that I need to pray harder for my career, but he exhorted me to be bold and to just go after a sister in my church should I find her attractive.
Now, the pastor was certainly not suggesting let alone encouraging thoughtless, impulsive, careless invitations to just any sister. But he did say that my church does have a lot of single women (which is true). Certainly, a church's senior pastor will like it if a single man and a single woman marry and settle down and later have kids in his church. But this church is already very well-established. So I don't think the pastor spoke out of any personal ambition. In fact, this church does have a singles' ministry (which is somewhat on hold now as there are so many other ministries also taking place).
OK, fast forward to today. I get an email, unexpectedly, from the senior pastor. He asks, "Rich, any news regarding your prayer for marriage?"
I reply, "no, pastor. No news as of yet."
He wrote back, "OK. Continue to pray. In the meantime I suggest Sarah. She works in the welcoming committee, has a gentle spirit, and serves joyfully. Observe her."
I grinned and chuckled when I read the pastor's email. Little did he know that Sarah is the ONE sister in this church I asked out. Sarah is 6 years younger, very cute, has an extremely warm demeanor and a really pretty smile. She and I were in the same Bible study group this past winter/spring, but her work schedule sometimes keeps her from church on Sundays, and even when she did come to church, she didn't always go to Bible study. Even nowadays, now that we are in separate Bible study groups, I don't always see her during the post-service coffee hour.
I was attracted to her from early on and in the summer, a married sister (also from that old Bible study group) tried to set us up at my request. Sarah turned me down (her very polite language to the married sister - "I prefer to get to know Rich through church" - was a highly diplomatic and courteous translation of "I"m not interested."). I never raised the issue again and continued to greet Sarah warmly whenever I saw her at church (our exchanges have never gone beyond "hi" since then, and she continues to be very friendly and warm).
Some of you may know I'm getting to know a Christian woman I met online, and we're still seeing each other, although it's going rather slow and calmly. She's taking her time and I'm giving her space. It was, however, so funny and ironic that the pastor suggested Sarah. If ONLY he knew (and I'm not telling him)...
< Message edited by RichLP -- 11/12/2009 9:29:53 PM >
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:19:52 AM
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herestoresmysoul
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As a women I do think that she would have made it clear if she had changed her mind. Women have ways of making things like this known usually, especially if you have already asked her out. (could be wrong of course).
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:41:45 AM
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manda59
Posts: 8726
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
especially if you have already asked her out.
The thing is, he didn't ask her out, he got a third party to try and matchmake. And it was a while ago.
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:48:34 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deermousie
Why not tell him? He's on your side!  He has the care of your soul per God's ordaining, he cares about your needs, and he knows Sarah and cares about her needs.
His recommending her is a stamp of approval on YOU. He's not going to recommend some creep to pursue a shining flower in his congregation. Ask him to talk to her? I sure would, in your shoes. Maybe she's changed her mind about you, or maybe she's just not interested and the pastor can convey that to you without the drama of her saying it.
God may be working through your pastor... (ya think?  ). Be encouraged!
Dare I say this? She might have asked him to talk to you.
First of all, I didn't tell the pastor for the very simple reason that I do not fully trust him on this. I know it sounds horrible, but it's not him per se. What I'm saying is: I am not comfortable with my senior pastor knowing about this because the first and last time I entrusted to a pastor that I liked a girl in church, he got too involved, said things to her he shouldn't have, and said things to ME he shouldn't have. He was way too invested in me and her becoming an item. Granted, I too made mistakes when I was with that woman, and those mistakes (along with other factors) destroyed the relationship. Let it be known that those mistakes and the other factors were not the fault of that pastor... BUT, that experience, with an overly nosy pastor, turned me off.
My current senior pastor is a good Christian man, but I sensed he's a bit "nosy" (for lack of a better word). He asked me to consider Sarah and to get back to him. Does he HAVE to know?
And as for Sarah: I never lost my initial good impression of her and he is correct in saying Sarah has a gentle spirit and serves joyfully. But unlike most others, Sarah tends not to stick around for post-worship coffee hour and when she does she doesn't stick for long. I haven't had a real conversation with her, one which lasted more than one minute, since before last summer. This gives you an idea of how often Sarah does NOT attend the post-coffee hour.
There are cultural intricacies related to the "trust" issues regarding my pastor, which spring from my experience with my ex-pastor, which are too long and frankly too tiring to detail here. Just take my word for it.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:49:35 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jhuperetes
I would be surprised if the paster did NOT know... Most pastors have ears and eyes places you would never realize.
That old biddy that sat next to on other day, while you were smiling at Sarah? That old biddy talked to the pastor to let him know, "our boy has a shine for Sarah - encourage him"...
Never underestimate senior citizens! 
Haha.
The pastor is not even 50 years old.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:57:30 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
First of all, I didn't tell the pastor for the very simple reason that I do not fully trust him on this. I know it sounds horrible, but it's not him per se. What I'm saying is: I am not comfortable with my senior pastor knowing about this because the first and last time I entrusted to a pastor that I liked a girl in church, he got too involved, said things to her he shouldn't have, and said things to ME he shouldn't have. He was way too invested in me and her becoming an item. Granted, I too made mistakes when I was with that woman, and those mistakes (along with other factors) destroyed the relationship. Let it be known that those mistakes and the other factors were not the fault of that pastor... BUT, that experience, with an overly nosy pastor, turned me off.
So, basically you're judging ALL pastors based on the one bad experience you had. Hmmmm - do you think that's fair or reasonable of you?
Maybe God's allowed this to happen in order to shine a light on it, and give you a chance to put the past behind you and move on, rather than living under the shadow of it.
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 10:59:07 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
So, basically you're judging ALL pastors based on the one bad experience you had. Hmmmm - do you think that's fair or reasonable of you?
Maybe God's allowed this to happen in order to shine a light on it, and give you a chance to put the past behind you and move on, rather than living under the shadow of it.
It's not that easy, is it Manda.
Besides, if I ask out Sarah and it doesn't work out, the pastor loses nothing. I lose some face (again) as she already KNEW I was interested.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:17:42 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
It's not that easy, is it Manda.
I didn't say it would be "easy", but the fact remains that you're still damaged from that time, and maybe it's time to let that hurt be healed.
quote:
Besides, if I ask out Sarah and it doesn't work out, the pastor loses nothing. I lose some face (again) as she already KNEW I was interested.
Maybe you set too much store on supposedly "losing face" (which is basically pride).
< Message edited by manda59 -- 11/13/2009 11:24:09 AM >
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:20:10 AM
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manda59
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Rich,
You could always ask the pastor if there was any particular reason that he suggested Sarah to you, without telling him (for now) that you'd already tried getting someone else to ask her out for you.
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:21:33 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I didn't say it would be "easy", but the fact remains that you're still damaged from that time, and maybe it's time to let that hurt be healed.
Perhaps. But it's not easy to trust Christian leaders when a pastor of the Body of Christ spills your secrets - secrets he had promised to keep - after you leave his congregation. This is why I told you previously that I find it very hard to trust certain people from my background who happen to be pastors. I think there is no need to delve into this specific facet.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Maybe you set too much store on supposedly "losing face" (which is basically pride).
Guilty as charged. I don't ask women out twice. And if they want to play "hard to get," let them play it with others.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:22:56 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Rich,
You could always ask the pastor if there was any particular reason that he suggested Sarah to you, without telling him (for now) that you'd already tried getting someone else to ask her out for you.
I would think his reasons were given in his email, no? She's got a warm spirit, she serves joyfully. In the pastor's defense, his statements about Sarah were factually correct. It was her very warm spirit which attracted me to her from the start. And she does serve joyfully, which is a positive as well.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:33:11 AM
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jhuperetes
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Perhaps. But it's not easy to trust Christian leaders when a pastor of the Body of Christ spills your secrets - secrets he had promised to keep - after you leave his congregation. This is why I told you previously that I find it very hard to trust certain people from my background who happen to be pastors. I think there is no need to delve into this specific facet.
Ouch, bro. That's gotta hurt, and leave some serious wounds for a long long time.
quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Guilty as charged. I don't ask women out twice. And if they want to play "hard to get," let them play it with others.
I sort of ... feel like that too. Unless she has a real good excuse, I will not ask for a second date. I don't think it has anything to do with losing face. Either she is interested, or not. If she is interested, but cannot express it (simply accepting the date), then she is not ready. If she changes her mind, she can come to me.
< Message edited by jhuperetes -- 11/13/2009 11:39:18 AM >
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:34:29 AM
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manda59
Posts: 8726
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From: Hampshire, UK
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Perhaps. But it's not easy to trust Christian leaders when a pastor of the Body of Christ spills your secrets - secrets he had promised to keep - after you leave his congregation. This is why I told you previously that I find it very hard to trust certain people from my background who happen to be pastors. I think there is no need to delve into this specific facet.
You mean you don't want to talk about it here? That's fine, but unless you've found all previous pastors untrustworthy then I maintain that it's unfair to necessarily tar every one of them with the same brush.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Guilty as charged. I don't ask women out twice. And if they want to play "hard to get," let them play it with others.
Why? Do you think they should be so grateful you've asked them that they just instantly fall into your arms and melt?
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:38:41 AM
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RichLP
Posts: 1131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
You mean you don't want to talk about it here? That's fine, but unless you've found all previous pastors untrustworthy then I maintain that it's unfair to necessarily tar every one of them with the same brush.
Manda59, that pastor was not just a pastor I knew for a year or two. He and I had once been close. We met nearly 20 years ago when he was a mid-20s youth group assistant and I was in college. We worked together in my old church, as he helped both the college group and I was a youth group teacher. He also happened to be involved w/ my college fellowship. This wonderful past made it easier for me to trust him - hence the greater disappointment that he betrayed me.
I will not detail it here, but this pastor's theology changed dramatically from the time I first met him. I will only say his particular beliefs drove many people away from his church before and after my own departure, and this included some folks who like me had known him in younger years. To this day they do not trust him, at least theologically or as a church administrator.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Why? Do you think they should be so grateful you've asked them that they just instantly fall into your arms and melt?
No, I expect them to kneel down and throw their arms up to heaven in thanksgiving.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:44:19 AM
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manda59
Posts: 8726
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
Manda59, that pastor was not just a pastor I knew for a year or two. He and I had once been close. We met nearly 20 years ago when he was a mid-20s youth group assistant and I was in college. We worked together in my old church, as he helped both the college group and I was a youth group teacher. He also happened to be involved w/ my college fellowship. This wonderful past made it easier for me to trust him - hence the greater disappointment that he betrayed me.
I will not detail it here, but this pastor's theology changed dramatically from the time I first met him. I will only say his particular beliefs drove many people away from his church before and after my own departure, and this included some folks who like me had known him in younger years. To this day they do not trust him, at least theologically or as a church administrator.
Yep, but still just one pastor.
Sounds like he made a mistake, erred from the straight and narrow path, and it affected his judgement on a number of things.
But just the one pastor.
quote:
No, I expect them to kneel down and throw their arms up to heaven in thanksgiving.
It's funny - you are looking for a girl who is strong, independent, and a bit spirited, yet you are also looking for someone who is so passive that they're a pushover.
Don't you think that the two goals could be in conflict?
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 11:49:44 AM
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RichLP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
Yep, but still just one pastor.
Sounds like he made a mistake, erred from the straight and narrow path, and it affected his judgement on a number of things.
But just the one pastor.
With all due respect, I do wonder if you know what it is like to be betrayed by a Christian "mentor" whom you've known from youth and who told you your secrets were safe with him.
That the pastor in question was actually approached by his most loyal church member (a man now nearly 40, someone diligent but woefully immature spiritually speaking and who was nearly blind in his allegiance) not long after my departure, and questioned on his modus operandi - an MO that had driven more than 20 people from that church (a church whose membership, at last back then, never exceeded 50 people) in a 3-year period - and refused to admit any wrongdoing - does not speak to me about someone who made just "a mistake." It was a pattern springing from pride and arrogance unbecoming a flock's shepherd.
Yes, it is true that my current senior pastor is not the same person as my ex-pastor, and the fact my current church provides a (so far, IMO) healthy mix of conservatism with progressive ideas and tactics which has resulted in a 3-service congregation full of young people devoted to Christ works in my current senior pastor's favor.
But I do not know him very well yet. So I'd rather be cautious for the time being.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
It's funny - you are looking for a girl who is strong, independent, and a bit spirited, yet you are also looking for someone who is so passive that they're a pushover.
Don't you think that the two goals could be in conflict?
I thought you Brits were masters of sarcasm. My love for all things British has just taken an irreversible blow. Woe is me, MacBeth.
< Message edited by RichLP -- 11/13/2009 11:58:00 AM >
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 12:00:06 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8726
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RichLP
With all due respect, I do wonder if you know what it is like to be betrayed by a Christian "mentor" whom you've known from youth and who told you your secrets were safe with him.
With all due respect, you've a lot to learn about me and what I've been through in my life.
And besides, the one we love and follow knows firsthand about being betrayed by those He should have been able to trust, so He understands (but I am pretty sure He doesn't want us to get stuck there, and remain "victims").
quote:
It was a pattern springing from pride and arrogance unbecoming a flock's shepherd.
And he will have to answer to God for that. Do you trust God to deal with him as he needs to be dealt with? If so, leave it with Him and move on.
Yes, it is true that my current senior pastor is not the same person as my ex-pastor, and the fact my current church provides a (so far, IMO) healthy mix of conservatism with progressive ideas and tactics which has resulted in a 3-service congregation full of young people devoted to Christ works in my current senior pastor's favor.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
It's funny - you are looking for a girl who is strong, independent, and a bit spirited, yet you are also looking for someone who is so passive that they're a pushover.
Don't you think that the two goals could be in conflict?
I thought you Brits were masters of sarcasm. My love for all things British has just taken an irreversible blow. Woe is me, MacBeth.
I'm not basing this just on what you have just said, Rich.
_____________________________
"Manda stole my answer" - bolt. March 2010
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 12:04:29 PM
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herestoresmysoul
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I honestly REALLY think that she would make it quite clear if she were interested in you, even by coming to church more often and staying behind to get to knwo you better.
She knows that you were/are interested in you, and yet she has done nothing to make herself available to speak to you more or get to know you better.If she is too shy there are loads of ways that she could make it known that she is now interested if she wanted to. It doesnt look hopeful for her at least, so you may need to look else where than her.
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 12:08:20 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
With all due respect, you've a lot to learn about me and what I've been through in my life.
Oh, I'm sure - but you may not yourself know what it felt to experience what I went through. Perhaps a bit of compassion or sympathy might be in order?
And, that you may well have faced greater pain and accomplished greater victories than me at this stage doesn't mean that what you've done, I can do (just yet).
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
And besides, the one we love and follow knows firsthand about being betrayed by those He should have been able to trust, so He understands (but I am pretty sure He doesn't want us to get stuck there, and remain "victims").
Given that Christians are fallible and oftentimes undependable, what is so unwise or wrong about me being cautious?
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
And he will have to answer to God for that. Do you trust God to deal with him as he needs to be dealt with? If so, leave it with Him and move on.
Yes I do - but I would hope that this background would shed some light as to why I am wary of trusting some pastors with such delicate issuees.
quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
I'm not basing this just on what you have just said, Rich.
Saying yes to a first request is not being a pushover. Sarah made her choice. What else is there to it? Case closed - for now. If, as Deermousie once said, a given woman I have met is the one the Lord chose, she won't go anywhere, and she'll enter my life - at the time and in a manner the Lord chooses.
< Message edited by RichLP -- 11/13/2009 12:15:00 PM >
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RE: The lighter side of yearning for "the one" - 11/13/2009 12:12:16 PM
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RichLP
Posts: 1131
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quote:
ORIGINAL: herestoresmysoul
I honestly REALLY think that she would make it quite clear if she were interested in you, even by coming to church more often and staying behind to get to knwo you better.
She knows that you were/are interested in you, and yet she has done nothing to make herself available to speak to you more or get to know you better.If she is too shy there are loads of ways that she could make it known that she is now interested if she wanted to. It doesnt look hopeful for her at least, so you may need to look else where than her.
I think this is something I can agree with.
Sarah very recently "invited" herself to a hiking outing a very close friend of mine organized. This man no longer attends my church and worships elsewhere. This hiking expedition was supposed to be a group activity but my friend couldn't get anybody else to come so it was him and her. They later went to get tea, and she said casually that if he ever needs anybody to get coffee, dessert, tea, etc with, to call her.
This man is dating somebody else, and this was not viewed as a date by either party. But she showed interest in spending time with him - in the hiking expedition. They have each others' emails and phone numbers, and she contacted him first despite the fact she worships at my church and he at his, and they do not often see each other.
Point being: when Sarah wants to do something or when she wishes to see somebody, she will act. She has never taken this attitude with me.
Sarah's silence speaks volumes.
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! And, they love to report it to the pastor and elders. 