|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 9:39:11 AM
|
|
|
stateofgrace
Posts: 2004
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
These quotes are from recent posts in the Lakeland Outpouring thread.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
If those who willingly partnered with and supported Todd Bentley at FFM had cared about God's word more than they cared about the excitement, the 'signs and wonders', the power trips to heaven, and the attention, they would not be in their current position of having to apologize and smooth things over. As it stands, they STILL do not have a clue as to who Todd *really* is and just how biblically unsound and in error their ministry is. Instead, they want to restore 'Brother Todd' to his self-glorified position and prop him right back up.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
...You have to remember something. Those that supported, promoted, and appeared with him (Wagner, Ahn, King, Cain, Joyner, Sheets, etc) are just as biblically unsound. So they'll have no problem, once he gets over the marital issues, pushing him out there to biblically ignorant Christians again.
IMO (and I think that view is shared by many of the other posters), there's a "bigger issue" behind what happened at Lakeland, and lw9 and Soxfan have touched on it.
Comments?
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 9:46:15 AM
|
|
|
stateofgrace
Posts: 2004
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
There was an article in Charisma the other day from J. Lee Grady. One paragraph in it really struck me as compelling:
"A prominent Pentecostal evangelist called me this week after Bentley’s news hit the fan. He said to me: “I’m now convinced that a large segment of the charismatic church will follow the anti-Christ when he shows up because they have no discernment.” Ouch. Hopefully we’ll learn our lesson this time and apply the necessary caution when an imposter shows up."
As long as those in the Charismatic movement continue to follow the latest signs and wonders and experiences, rather than the Word of God, they will be ripe for frauds like Todd Bentley. Hey, they fell for Toronto, they fell for Brownsville, and now Lakeland.
How many more phony revivals will it take before someone gets a clue!
Remember...Those who stand for nothing, will fall for anything."
Throughout this Lakeland situation, J. Lee Grady has at least tried to raise concerns. I appreciate that he has done so.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 9:55:22 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6220
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
It's an ignorance of the Word, political correctness (do not judge!!!!) and a lack of discernment/spiritual maturity.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 11:16:11 AM
|
|
|
jayvance
Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
|
I was raised in an independent Pentecostal environment and perhaps can offer some insight, not that I have all the answers by any means. In that world, the "manifestations of the Spirit" trump all, and those ecstatic experiences are ultimately what everyone is seeking. The singing, the testimonies, even the preaching of the word, are all just part of the warm-up act, the foreplay, if you will. The good stuff happens at the "altar call," when people get "slain in the Spirit" or when sinners get "filled with the Holy Ghost" and start speaking in tongues, or when backsliders come back to God and get a "fresh dose of the Holy Ghost," or when folks who haven't spoken in tongues in a while can "pray through" and thus have reassurance that they're still saved.
If you haven't lived in that world it's very difficult to understand the emotional manipulation that takes place. Only after having left that environment and experienced other expressions of Christian living am I able to look back and somewhat objectively analyze what was going on. Watching videos of the "Lakeland Outpouring" literally make my stomach hurt as I watch the sincere yearning on the faces of the congregation, wanting so desperately to get a "touch from God."
Bottom line, the Pentecostal experience for many is a spiritual drug addiction, and the "high" becomes the focus of everything that happens. If you look at it in that context, it becomes easier to understand why sound doctrine and Biblical accuracy become secondary to getting the next spiritual fix. Actually, it would be more accurate to say that for many Pentecostals, the supernatural manifestations of the Spirit are all the proof they need that their doctrine IS sound and that their Biblical exegesis IS accurate. The fact that the manifestations THEMSELVES may be totally un-Biblical or at the very least simply the result of emotional manipulation is totally lost on many who live in that world. So as you can see, it becomes a never-ending merry-go-round, a self-fulfilling and self-affirming cycle of spiritual desperation. Like a giant whirlpool, it is enormously difficult to escape its grasp long enough to recognize its inherent errors.
That's why there will ALWAYS be spiritual dope dealers who simply "give the people what they want." As long as there's a demand, there will always be a supplier. Doesn't matter how many dealers get busted, doesn't matter how many of them fall from grace, gotta keep the "stuff" flowing down the pipeline to satisfy a needy clientele.
Coming from where I came from, I have more sympathy than contempt for the sincere people who in many cases simply don't know any better; this world is the only world they've ever known. But the fact that I saw the light gives me hope for others as well.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 11:51:20 AM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6220
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Jay,
As a former pastor in a Pentecostal church - I do take a bit of an issue with painting the entire denomination with a single stroke. I do understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, but just wanted to add that bit.
Also, I don't feel sorry for them necessarily. Why? Because they have no excuse, NONE. They have a Bible, I am sure. They can ask the Holy Spirit for discernment. They can get into the Word and get the Word into them.
No excuse.
God does not protect people from unbiblical choices. Cyanide has the same effect be it for an atheist or a self-professing Christian.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 12:24:40 PM
|
|
|
Lapidoth
Posts: 3610
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
|
All I can say is,
"What hasn't been said?"
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 12:48:12 PM
|
|
|
jayvance
Posts: 58
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
As a former pastor in a Pentecostal church - I do take a bit of an issue with painting the entire denomination with a single stroke. I do understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, but just wanted to add that bit.
You're absolutely right, I meant to add a disclaimer and failed to do so. My broad statements aren't true for all Pentecostals, and there are a multitude of variations on the general theme I've described.
Jay
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/18/2008 12:53:10 PM
|
|
|
earthless
Posts: 6220
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
|
Jay,
Thank you for clarifying. God bless, have a great Monday.
-earthless
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
|
|
|
|
|
[Deleted] - 8/18/2008 11:48:51 PM
|
|
|
Deleted User
|
[Deleted by Admins]
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/19/2008 2:46:27 AM
|
|
|
everjoyful
Posts: 124
Joined: 1/4/2007
Status: offline
|
The issues surrounding this are huge indeed. I was going to a church that got seriousely wrapped up in this and made me feel bad about rejecting it. I haven't been back since I experienced the services for myself. At that service were leaders from several other churches in the area. Sooooo many people were drawn in by this, even the leaders we trust to discern. It is indeed possible to see how an antichrist will be succesful. I now have to try to find a church where I feel spiritually safe.
_____________________________
john 14 v27...do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: The bigger issue behind Bentley - 8/19/2008 7:35:52 AM
|
|
|
csl7037
Posts: 1762
Joined: 3/24/2008
Status: online
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Also, I don't feel sorry for them necessarily. Why? Because they have no excuse, NONE. They have a Bible, I am sure. They can ask the Holy Spirit for discernment. They can get into the Word and get the Word into them.
No excuse.
God does not protect people from unbiblical choices. Cyanide has the same effect be it for an atheist or a self-professing Christian.
I agree. In my experience, God throws all kinds of red flags up. Maybe not, He doesn't have to - you inevitably come to a point where the "magic words" don't work and you have to decide whether your faith was really smaller than a mustard seed or rationally realize that this stuff just doesn't line up with God's word. IMO, these people come to a fork in the road, or many forks, where they willfully choose what feels good or promises something bigger and better (seemingly) than the accountability, humility, and true surrender to Lordship that God requires.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
