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Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 11:28:10 AM
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hricky2
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14 Yes, if you forgive others for their sins, your Father in heaven will also forgive you for your sins. 15 But if you don't forgive others, your Father in heaven will not forgive your sins.
Doesnt this imply here that just because you accept jesus doesnt mean your saved, this means you also have to live the christian life to go along with it. It seems pretty clear to me. Forgive and you will be forgiven, if you dont forgive you will not be forgiven.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 12:10:34 PM
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LCannon
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Remember Jesus' words were spoken before the(personal)indwelling of baptism of the HS. Accept/Believe-“[you can be]freed from the arrogance that enslaves you [and] come into His obedience resulting in purification and Eternal Life. For the wages of sin is death but the free gift of is Eternal Life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”(Romans 3:22,23)is considered the 'point' salvation. Obedience to that fact is the evidence of growth in one's the 'new life' in Christ Jesus.
_____________________________
"It may be that when the angels go about their task of praising God they play
only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 1:03:44 PM
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mslv4gd
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One thing we must also remember is that forgiveness demands lordship.
I discovered this as I was preaching through Romans 4 and 5.
Only God can forgive. Therefore Jesus can only forgive us if he is indeed God.
If Jesus is God it is our obligation to obey him because he is the Lord of heaven and Earth and our creator; therefore sovereign over us. Therefore if we accept the forgiveness of God then it is implied that we have also yeilded to the lordship of Christ.
Now let us apply this. I remember doubting God's forgiveness as a teenager. At this time I held grudges against many people who had offended me. When I understood that God forgave me I then realized that even though people did not deserve my forgiveness, I did not deserve God's forgiveness. Therefore, I now was free to forgive others because I had now recieved forgiveness form God.
We must forgive others because it is only nature if we are truly forgiven. If you are incapable of forgiving others then it is obvious that you are not recieving the forgiveness of God.
In Christ,
Matt
check out my blog www.biblesmack.blogspot.com
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 1:25:03 PM
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hricky2
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mslv4gd this is kinda what i thought, i just didnt know how to word it, and it also fits the scripture nicely.
I just dont see how people can go and accept jesus, and then thats it. They continue to lead there life the way it was. To me thats means they dont really believe. To me it was a completally life changing experience.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 1:34:26 PM
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terryjohn
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I think we get caught up in making Christ our Lord and savour and over look the need to actually form a life saving, life transforming relationship with the one who yet while we were still sinners died for us. That is, love is required. I think many believe obedience will make up for their lack of love and sadly it does not.
We need to get away from the master servant theme which makes us acceptable as long as we are obediant for such preaches the law and if we haven't heard it yet the gospel does not preach this. We are not damned for our sins but for the very fact that we don't know and don't want to know God. Even perfection was not needed before He loved us. We do not have to struggle as men once did under the law with our focus on fulfilling the commandments for now our focus is on Christ. Obediance is made perfect in love for Christ and others. Love literally covers a multitude of sins. In Love we cannot sin against those we love. Hence, love Chirst/God, love others and you will love yourself. Amasingly, it is then said there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Literally, Christ is in us and we are in Christ. Can we go further and say in love and faith, it is no long I that liveth but Christ?
If we still wrestle with sin perhaps we would be better off dealing with their causes (The lack of love for Christ) rather than the consequences (The sins). In the end, obedience is impossible without love. Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments". Literally, our love for Him surplants and goes beyond they requirements of the law and in love none of its requirements seem a burden.
Yes Jesus is Lord for He has conqured my heart, my prasies are real not demanded but freely given. I am driven not out of fear for the law of sin and death but by a greater power of the love of God. God could love us no more than He does this very moment.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 3:14:39 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: terryjohn
I think we get caught up in making Christ our Lord and savour and over look the need to actually form a life saving, life transforming relationship with the one who yet while we were still sinners died for us. That is, love is required.
I am impressed with this statement, However, I am concerned about the following statement and the explanation that follows.
quote:
I think many believe obedience will make up for their lack of love and sadly it does not.
We need to get away from the master servant theme which makes us acceptable as long as we are obediant for such preaches the law and if we haven't heard it yet the gospel does not preach this. We are not damned for our sins but for the very fact that we don't know and don't want to know God. Even perfection was not needed before He loved us. We do not have to struggle as men once did under the law with our focus on fulfilling the commandments for now our focus is on Christ. Obediance is made perfect in love for Christ and others. Love literally covers a multitude of sins. In Love we cannot sin against those we love. Hence, love Chirst/God, love others and you will love yourself. Amasingly, it is then said there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Literally, Christ is in us and we are in Christ. Can we go further and say in love and faith, it is no long I that liveth but Christ?
If we still wrestle with sin perhaps we would be better off dealing with their causes (The lack of love for Christ) rather than the consequences (The sins). In the end, obedience is impossible without love. Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments". Literally, our love for Him surplants and goes beyond they requirements of the law and in love none of its requirements seem a burden.
Yes Jesus is Lord for He has conqured my heart, my prasies are real not demanded but freely given. I am driven not out of fear for the law of sin and death but by a greater power of the love of God. God could love us no more than He does this very moment.
If we say we love someone but do not do as they wish, can we really say we love them. Admittedly, when we love someone doing what is in their best interests is no burden. However, the lifting up of the word "love" as an unclearly defined mantra, which often becomes the case, is in my opinion, watering down the words of the Messiah to the point that they practically have no meaning. Can we not say that, we are commanded to love our neighbor as ourselves and if we do not forgive them we can not say we are keeping that commandment, without watering it down with assurances that seem to say, don't worry you will be forgiven regardless as long as you "love" Adonai.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/22/2008 5:52:13 PM
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jn1010lf
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Hello hricky2
I think Jesus was talking about the condition of a man's heart here. If one's heart is fashioned after Jesus, the living will take care of itself. The heart of man, in his humanity, is hard and unforgiving. It needs to be softened and molded so it becomes like Christ.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/24/2008 9:54:23 AM
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hricky2
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Well i must say god works in his own way. This verse had me thinking so i asked you guys, well guess what yesterday the whole sermon at church was about forgiveness and to end it he talked about this passage 
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/24/2008 4:13:28 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jn1010lf
Hello hricky2
I think Jesus was talking about the condition of a man's heart here. If one's heart is fashioned after Jesus, the living will take care of itself. The heart of man, in his humanity, is hard and unforgiving. It needs to be softened and molded so it becomes like Christ.
That seems to be contrary to what the passage says. We are told we are to forgive if we wish to be forgiven, regardless of our "heart". Now if you are saying this passage gives us an indication of what it means to be "fashioned after Jesus", then that is much clearer. If we give advise that says, "Do this and everything will be ok.", we need to make sure to define what "this' is.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/26/2008 9:56:56 AM
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SpongeBlog
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hricky2
14 Yes, if you forgive others for their sins, your Father in heaven will also forgive you for your sins. 15 But if you don't forgive others, your Father in heaven will not forgive your sins.
Doesnt this imply here that just because you accept jesus doesnt mean your saved, this means you also have to live the christian life to go along with it. It seems pretty clear to me. Forgive and you will be forgiven, if you dont forgive you will not be forgiven.
I think this passage makes it clear for us how it works.
44Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. 46You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little. (Luke 7:44-46)
What Jesus is saying is, "We can see her many sins have been forgiven becauses she loves much." Her love is the evidence of her first being forgiven by God.
To whatever extent a person 'sees' Jesus and embraces his love and forgiveness is the extent to which that person will reflect that love and forgiveness in this world to others. If a person does not love and forgive they are showing that they themselves have not laid hold of the forgiveness of God in salvation. That's what Jesus is teaching when he says that people who don't forgive will not be forgiven themselves. They are simply proving they have not had their own sins forgiven in salvation.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/26/2008 5:36:12 PM
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drfuss
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hricky2
14 Yes, if you forgive others for their sins, your Father in heaven will also forgive you for your sins. 15 But if you don't forgive others, your Father in heaven will not forgive your sins.
Doesnt this imply here that just because you accept jesus doesnt mean your saved, this means you also have to live the christian life to go along with it. It seems pretty clear to me. Forgive and you will be forgiven, if you dont forgive you will not be forgiven.
drfuss: I believe the verses simply mean just what they say. If we refuse to forgive others, God will not forgive us. I believe Jesus is talking about long term unforgiveness. If someone wrongs us and we have trouble forgiving them for a couple of days, that does not affect God's forgiveness. However, if a year later we still have not forgiven them, that is when we should worry about God forgiving us.
If a Christian does not forgive immediately, God will deal with that Christian about forgiveness. After God's dealing with that Christian and he still refuses to forgive, then that person has chosen to stop living for Christ since Christians are commanded to forgive. Any Christian who decides to stop living for Christ has also decided to stop trusting Christ and forfeits their salvation.
Of course OSAS Christians will have trouble with the above explanation. The subject scripture is one of the many scriptures that causes me to not believe in OSAS.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/27/2008 12:08:16 AM
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OleFitzHi
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The bulk of Scripture gives the message that if a person repents/believes in Christ as the atoning sacrifice that provides payment to a holy and righteous God, then that person will be saved.
This verse stated by Jesus seems to say that you must DO a certain thing to be saved (sins forgiven). It says nothing about repentance/faith.
Soooo, either Scripture contradicts...or our understanding must be deficient.
I would never say that a person HAS to live a certain way IN ORDER to be saved. I would say that when one repents and places their faith in Christ, then one will be saved. THEN through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit, that person's life will be transformed and renewed into what you might call the Christian life.
I would apply that here.
I would not say that a person HAS to forgive IN ORDER to be saved. I would say that when one repents and places their faith in Christ, then one will begin to forgive others as well. This is part of the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.
quote:
ORIGINAL: hricky2
14 Yes, if you forgive others for their sins, your Father in heaven will also forgive you for your sins. 15 But if you don't forgive others, your Father in heaven will not forgive your sins.
Doesnt this imply here that just because you accept jesus doesnt mean your saved, this means you also have to live the christian life to go along with it. It seems pretty clear to me. Forgive and you will be forgiven, if you dont forgive you will not be forgiven.
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RE: Matthew 6:14,15 NCV - 11/27/2008 1:02:01 AM
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AbbyGrace
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In these verses, Jesus gives a startling warning about forgiveness: if we refuse to forgive others, God will also refuse to forgive us. Why? Because when we dont forgive others, we are denying our common ground as sinners in need of God's forgiveness. God's forgiveness of sin is not the direct result of our forgiving others, but it is based on our realizing what forgiveness means. Ephesians 4:32....God does not forgive us because we forgive others, but solely because of His great mercy. As we become to understand His mercy, however, we will want to be like Him. Having received forgiveness, we will pass it on to others. Those who are unwilling to forgive have not become one with Christ, who was willing to forgive even those who crucified Him.
_____________________________
Hebrews 12:14 "Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." 
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