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Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/13/2008 8:06:08 PM
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lescrivens
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Joined: 11/13/2008
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I am 31-year single auditor. I attend a Presbyterian Church in America church in Laguna Niguel, California. My politics are very left-wing in nature but on theology, I consider myself to be a conservative. And for the record, I vote "Yes" on 8.
So it would be natural for person for me to be on the Dailykos and posting my left-wing stuff. And I posting on a bunch of left-wing stuff on Gaza in my post. So when I get done with my post, I decided to read other posts. Than I saw this idiot post this
"There seems to be just one way to resolve the problem of just "who" can marry "who." End all marriage. Marriage, as it legally defined today, is a discriminatory practice that affords a specific class of people---heterosexuals--a preferred status with special legal, civil, economic and social privileges. Marriage, as applied by current law in all but two states, denies the civil rights of all who do not fit this special heterosexual status.
This legally privileged state--marriage, is founded upon and upheld by specific religious traditions---namely the Judeo-Christian tradition--and therefore discriminates against other religious traditions who may not define marriage in the same way. And these religious discriminatory practices have been encoded in our civil law. This, I believe, is opposed to a basic premise of the US Constitution which states that Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. Marriage as it is now legally constituted, discriminates in favor of one religious tradition and opposes all others.
cloudwatcher's diary :: ::
Establishing marriage, as a legal contract, is therefore opposed to the constitution in two ways. It discriminates in favor of a special class of people to the exclusion of all others and it enshrines in law a specific religious tradition to the exclusion of all others.
It must be obvious from what I have written above that I am no constitutional scholar or lawyer. I would like to hear from those of you who interpret the "religion" clause of the constitution differently than I do in reference to the prohibition of non-heterosexual marriage. Yet, as I see it, the only way to redress this discriminatory practice is to withdraw all legal sanctioning of "marriage" by the government...state or federal. This can be replaced by a legal contract devoid of any traditional religious significance and the discriminatory practices attached to them
Wowsers, this guy has gone over the line. I went there to post a political op-ed and not for lecture on marriage.
< Message edited by karlie -- 11/13/2008 9:43:07 PM >
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RE: Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/14/2008 6:44:32 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2080
Joined: 3/24/2008
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I don't think the notion of just abolishing marriage should surprise us. We become politically active and take these social stands because we (the Church) has no moral leg to stand on. I don't think Christians should stick their heads in the sand but when we're out trying to change hearts by changing laws or Constitutions I think this is the sort of thing we should expect.
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RE: Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/14/2008 7:08:13 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4171
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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One thing is true: it is impossible to legislate integrity into people's hearts.
If the secular legal system no longer recognizes marriage, no big deal. The church would still marry people. I see nothing in the article to outlaw religious marriages, just remove the legal status.
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RE: Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/14/2008 8:07:23 AM
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stamper_ben
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From: Lone Star State
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As a conservative Christian, both theologically and politically, I am not surprised that the DailyKos went over the line. They do that all the time. Why are you surprised? And why not debate it over there where the discussion is needed?
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RE: Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/14/2008 10:29:00 AM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1104
Joined: 4/29/2005
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I think there are some accuracies in the post referenced by the OP. Marriage is a combination of a legal contract and a religious covenant.
Those who don't want to make the religious covenant should not be stopped (by the state) from making a similar legal contract. In all fairness, those living under that kind of a legal contract should have the same civil rights as those who choose to make both the legal and religious elements part of their life together. I just don't think they should be allowed to call it marriage... marriage already has a meaning, and messing with that is confusing.
Allowing others to secure civil rights (and equal treatment by employers, insurers etc.) by simply using a lawyer / justice of the peace to sign up for a "permanent life partnership agreement" doesn't hurt the Christian community. Christians would just have marriages too, on top of the state-registered partnership. We'd also have to clue in the that 'the world' does not live by 'Christian values' and never has. It's about time that we realized that being Christian means that we are different from unbelievers, and that we are going to have to raise our kids to know the difference.
Justice is what government is for. It is absolutely just to insure that people who choose immoral personal and intimate lives are not denied civil rights and equal treatment. It is not just to give moral people (according to 'Christian values') special privileges in a secular society.
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RE: Kos Went Over the Line on Marriage - 11/14/2008 11:09:11 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 4171
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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The legal and spiritual aspects of marriage are completely seperate. We messianics are (sometimes painfully) aware of that fact.
Believing Jews who have not yet applied for Israeli citizenship usually get married (legally) before a judge or justice of the peace seperately from the church/synagogue wedding. All the paperwork is handled by the civil authorities. That way there is little or no paper trail for Israeli investigators to follow tieing the couple to messianism, a major cause for rejection of citizenship and residency.
_____________________________
Avatar is DW holding Saphira at her first birthday party and myself holding Louvena at 30 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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