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Is There A Third Judgment? - 9/13/2008 11:23:05 PM
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MyCatSmokey2006
Posts: 3106
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I'm wondering if anyone ever heard of a third judgment? Someone asked me about it and I said I didn't know, but would try to find out.
I told her that I only knew of two judgments, the Judgment Seat of Christ, where believers are judged and rewarded for their faithfulness to Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment, where unbelievers are judged by their works, then thrown into the lake of fire. My friend thought that the third judgment might be the lake of fire itself, but I'm not sure, so I'm asking all of you. Please support your answer with Biblical references. Thank you.
_____________________________
Melissa
<----Cyber Kitty!
Pray and Rejoice, God is in control!
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 9/18/2008 11:49:19 PM
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whisperingwaters
Posts: 153
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: Michigan
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I don't know of any third judgement.
_____________________________
The words of a man's mouth are as deep waters, and the well-spring of wisdom as a flowing brook. Proverbs 18:4
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 9/26/2008 5:47:03 PM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
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Hi Melissa,
Yes, there is a another judgment. The Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20 takes place at the end of the millenium (Rev 20:7). The Bible isn't clear on when the Judgment Seat of Christ judgment takes place.
The judging of the nations is the other one. It takes place 1000 years before the GWT judgment, because it happens "when the Son of Man comes in his glory" which is at the beginning of the Millenial Reign of Christ. This judging of the nations is specifically regarding the treatment of the Jewish people, his Brethen. In this case he's not referring to His Brethren in general. He's specifically referring to His physical brethren. You know that two ways. First if you read Matt 24 and 25, Mark 13, and Luke 21 Jesus is talking about the Jews being scattered among the nations ("the nations" refers to the Gentiles). And then he judges "all the nations" , the Gentiles, based on how they these homeless people. You also know that it's referring to the Jewish people because Joel 3 talks about this same judgment.
Matthew 25-31-46 matches Joel 3
Joel 3:2
I will gather all nations
Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before him
Joel 3:12
for there I will sit to judge all the nations on every side.
Matthew 25:31
he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory
Matthew 25:33
He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
Joel 3:2
There I will enter into judgment against them concerning my inheritance, my people Israel
Matthew 25:40
whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
Micah 5:3
Therefore Israel will be abandoned until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return to join the Israelites (the word “brothers” refers to the Jewish people in the context of Yeshua’s return)
Ezekiel 11: 14 The word of the LORD came to me: 15 "Son of man, your brothers—your brothers who are your blood relatives and the whole house of Israel—are those of whom the people of Jerusalem have said, 'They are far away from the LORD; this land was given to us as our possession.'
Matthew 25:35
I was a stranger and you invited me in
Joel 3:2
for they scattered my people among the nations
Zechariah 7:14
But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations whom they knew not.
Luke 21:24
They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Matthew 25:36
I was in prison and you came to visit me
Joel 3:2
When I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem
Luke 21: (Note: This is the same sermon as in Matthew 24-25, the Olivet Discourse) 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Matthew 25: 34
"Then the King will say to those
Joel 3:16
The Lord will also roar from Zion and utter His voice from Jerusalem
Matthew 25:34
“take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.”
Joel 3:18
In that day the mountains will drip new wine,
and the hills will flow with milk;
all the ravines of Judah will run with water.
A fountain will flow out of the LORD's house
and will water the valley of acacias.
And if his brothers are the church in the context of Matthew 25:40, then why is the church going to heaven for taking care of the church? Why does Jesus refer to the church in both the second person “you” and the third person “these” in the same sentence (Matthew 25:40)?
Genesis 12:3
2 And I will make you a great nation,
And I will bless you,
And make your name great;
And so you shall be a blessing;
3 And I will bless those who bless you,
And the one who curses you I will curse.
And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
Matthew 25 34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father
And 41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed,
“I was a stranger, you took me in.”
Who did Jesus say would be strangers among the nations?
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 9/27/2008 12:13:06 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shabbat shalom, Melissa!
You asked,...
quote:
ORIGINAL: MyCatSmokey2006
I'm wondering if anyone ever heard of a third judgment? Someone asked me about it and I said I didn't know, but would try to find out.
I told her that I only knew of two judgments, the Judgment Seat of Christ, where believers are judged and rewarded for their faithfulness to Christ and the Great White Throne Judgment, where unbelievers are judged by their works, then thrown into the lake of fire. My friend thought that the third judgment might be the lake of fire itself, but I'm not sure, so I'm asking all of you. Please support your answer with Biblical references. Thank you.
There are AT LEAST three judgments! Let me see if I can help clear this up for you and others who subscribe to the theological subpoint that the Judgment Seat of Christ occurs in "Heaven" during the seven years of tribulation:
What does the word "Christ" mean? It is a TRANSLITERATED word from the Greek language. It was never translated or extended back to its Hebrew origin. It comes from "Christos" in the Greek which means "Anointed [One]." The Hebrew word that translates to mean "Anointed [One]" is "Mashiach" which has also been transliterated/Anglicized to be the "English" word, "Messiah." Therefore, "Christ" = "Messiah" = "Anointed [One]."
Now, to further clarify before I make my point, we need to understand what the word "anoint" means. Some believe that it means "select" or "choose" someone for a task or an appointment. Others believe that it means "pour oil on someone." Actually, the word "anoint," like its Hebrew predecessor "mashiach," means "RUB" or "MASSAGE!"
See, the process of "anointing" a priest, a prophet, a judge or a king in ancient Israel was not done by merely pouring oil over one's head; it also involved MASSAGING THE OIL INTO ONE'S HAIR AND SCALP! Furthermore, it had to be done with the "Holy Anointing Oil" that was mixed especially for that selection ritual (see Ex. 30:22-33).
Now, for the point: What is the job of a king? His job is NOT just to govern in matters of state, but, as haMelek Shlomo (King Solomon) demonstrated, it was also to decide in matters too great to decide by lesser judges. A king's job, then, is also TO BE A JUDGE! How much more for the King of Kings to be a Judge over the whole earth?!
Therefore, Yeshua` haMashiach haMelek Isra'el (Jesus the Christ [Anointed One] the King of Israel) will be a judge --or rather, THE Judge -- THROUGHOUT THE MILLENNIUM AND BEYOND!!! Thus, the "Judgment Seat of Christ" or rather the "Bema of the MESSIAH" will be AT THE BEGINNING of the Millennium and from then on!
Don't think of it as an event, or even as a short time period. It will be a LONG time period, extending into the ages of the ages!
Retrobyter
P.S. -- NOW, read the verses that Bob quoted for us in light of this interpretation! You will see that it will be the NATURE of the Messiah's Rule to fulfill the role of a Judge!
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/1/2008 4:22:15 AM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
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Yes, it's true that Jesus will reign throughout but the Judging of the Nations is a single, specific judgment.
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/1/2008 10:17:52 PM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bobwilson298
Yes, it's true that Jesus will reign throughout but the Judging of the Nations is a single, specific judgment.
Shalom, bobwilson298.
Not when He becomes King of the rulers of those nations! They will have to answer to Him and He will still judge them.
Retrobyter
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/1/2008 10:32:38 PM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline
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I never said that he would stop judging the nations. I'm just saying that this specific judgment is one judgment. If you can't understand something that simple you should take a critical thinking skills class.
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/1/2008 10:40:46 PM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline
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By the way, Retrobyter...
Don't show me scripture that tells that Jesus will continue to judge throughtout. We already agree on that. Show me scripture that shows that this exact judgment with Jesus using these same exact words, with these same exact people, under the exact same circumstances happening time and time again.
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/2/2008 1:11:19 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, bob.
Let me ask you: do these sound like a single event?
Isa 11:1-5
1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
KJV
Isa 2:1-5
1 the word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
KJV
Joel 3:1-12
1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,
2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
3 And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.
4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompence me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;
5 Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
6 The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border.
7 Behold, I will raise them out of the place whither ye have sold them, and will return your recompence upon your own head:
8 And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up:
10 Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong.
11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
KJV
Mic 4:1-5
1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
4 But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the LORD of hosts hath spoken it.
5 For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the LORD our God for ever and ever.
KJV
No, this is an on-going judgment by haMelekh Yisra'el (the King of Israel) who will rule the earth in truth and justice. One of the jobs of a king is to judge! He is the Supreme Court of a monarchy! Matters that lesser judges can't handle are brought to him, particularly affairs of the State!
Have you considered Zechariah 14?
Zech 14:1-16
14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
KJV
Judgment is NOT a single event. It is an on-going process in which the new Melekh Yisrael demonstrates His wisdom, a wisdom likened to haMelekh Shlomo (the King Solomon). Not only will His Kingdom grow during the Millennium, but so will His influence among the nations of the earth!
Retrobyter
P.S. - By the way, did you know that "Jehoshaphat" (or rather "Y'hoshafat") means "YAH will judge", YAH of course being the poetic shortened form of YHVH?
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/2/2008 5:02:20 AM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline
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I already agree with you that Jesus judges the nations on an ongoing basis. Are you going to continue to pretend like I don't already know that? However, the judging of the nations in Matthew 25:31-46 is a single judgment. That doesn't mean that he can't continue to judge the nations but that specific instance where he judges the nations is a single event. You still haven't shown me scripture that shows that this EXACT judgment with Jesus using these same exact words, with these same exact people, under the exact same circumstances happening time and time again.
All you've shown is that Jesus judges the nations on an ongoing basis, which I already know.
[Edited by moderator - TOS 6]
< Message edited by ta_mosquito -- 10/2/2008 10:14:33 AM >
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/2/2008 8:25:53 AM
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Retrobyter
Posts: 360
Joined: 8/23/2007
From: Florida
Status: online
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Shalom, bobwilson298!
quote:
ORIGINAL: bobwilson298
I already agree with you that Jesus judges the nations on an ongoing basis. Are you going to continue to pretend like I don't already know that? However, the judging of the nations in Matthew 25:31-46 is a single judgment. That doesn't mean that he can't continue to judge the nations but that specific instance where he judges the nations is a single event. You still haven't shown me scripture that shows that this EXACT judgment with Jesus using these same exact words, with these same exact people, under the exact same circumstances happening time and time again.
All you've shown is that Jesus judges the nations on an ongoing basis, which I already know -and for you to pretend like I don't already know that shows how sick you are.
My bad! Sorry to tic you off, but if you can't see it in my writing, it's not sickness; it's how EXCITED I AM about the NEAR Future!!! Please forgive my offense. Just can't wait!!!
Retrobyter
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RE: Is There A Third Judgment? - 10/2/2008 2:37:51 PM
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bobwilson298
Posts: 8
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline
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Hi Retrobiter,
I also have a posting on this website that involves Jesus speaking to people. It's a specific event that already happened. However, when you see the posting please understand that I'm not saying that that's the last time He ever speaks.
Please do NOT show me verses that show that He continues to speak. I already know that.
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