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How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:06:34 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Experience seems like a common and key buzzword associated with critiques of Presidential and VP candidates. Though already partially addressed in some posts concerning Obama and Palin, I am curious on a general level how people conceive of experience and its value to being a political leader.
What does experience encompass for you and how do you use it to judge a candidate.... 
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:13:54 PM
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csl7037
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There are different kinds of experience, though. Generally, executive is considered more valuable for a President than legislative experience. But, apparently, for the first time since Kennedy, we're going to have a Legislator ascend to the Presidency - something that is pretty rare in our history - but inevitable this time. The only person on the ticket with even an ounce of executive (or real world) experience of any kind is the newcomer, Palin.
The judgment of experience should also be weighted differently for a Presidential candidate than for a VP candidate. I love the audacity to want to make a point of Obama being more experienced than Palin. First, that's highly debatable! Second, it's apples to oranges - they're not running for the same office. One may have to be President four months from now, zero learning curve! The other may, someday, possibly become President - or maybe not. Apples to oranges.
Also, experience can be good or bad. Pundits are making a big deal of it but what does the average voter really feel about experience? Is experience in Washington really a plus? Aren't we all so sick of the status quo that we almost fell for Obama's rhetoric of change? His true colors have become more apparent - he's the same politician, the same Washington insider, that the rest of them are, the same old thing we've had about enough of! So we can argue who has the most experience, what experience is best, etc. But the real question is whether or not experience is even a good thing for where we are right now.
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:18:58 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
There are different kinds of experience, though. Generally, executive is considered more valuable for a President than legislative experience. But, apparently, for the first time since Kennedy, we're going to have a Legislator ascend to the Presidency - something that is pretty rare in our history - but inevitable this time. The only person on the ticket with even an ounce of executive (or real world) experience of any kind is the newcomer, Palin.
The judgment of experience should also be weighted differently for a Presidential candidate than............
What exactly is the diff. between executive vs. legislative experience?...I'm politically ignorant.  Could you elaborate?
(This partially explains why I received a D in freshmen Political Science while in college. ...That and never studying and disliking the professor.)
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/2/2008 9:15:03 AM >
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:25:35 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
What exactly is the diff. between executive vs. legislative experience?...I'm politically ignorant. Could you elaborate?
Legislative is what Congressmen and Senators have - experience voting yes or no for various pieces of legislation without ever actually having ran anything or governed anything - which would be executive experience. That's why most presidents are Governors. It's whether they got their experience from serving in the Legislative Branch (House or Senate) or from serving in an executive capacity - in the Executive Branch (Presidency or Governorship) or in a corporate executive capacity (CEO or business ownership).
McCain and Biden are certainly career legislators. Obama's short career is legislative; even in his limited experience prior to that it was in law and education - nothing executive on the resumes of any of them. None of them have really ever administered anything or headed up any kind of organization or business. How any of them would actually function in such a capacity, like the Presidency, is really anyone's guess. That's why the argument could certainly be made that Palin, having had run her own company, served as Governor, and her various other experience, is actually more experienced and more relevant to a Presidential role.
See why the argument that she's inexperienced is really a weak one?
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:47:00 PM
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Jhud
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Apparently until Friday, 'judgement' was the criteria - then the Dems mysteriously changed their tune.
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It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:51:51 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
What exactly is the diff. between executive vs. legislative experience?...I'm politically ignorant. Could you elaborate?
Legislative is what Congressmen and Senators have - experience voting yes or no for various pieces of legislation without ever actually having ran anything or governed anything - which would be executive experience. That's why most presidents are Governors. It's whether they got their experience from serving in the Legislative Branch (House or Senate) or from serving in an executive capacity - in the Executive Branch (Presidency or Governorship) or in a corporate executive capacity (CEO or business ownership).
McCain and Biden are certainly career legislators. Obama's short career is legislative; even in his limited experience prior to that it was in law and education - nothing executive on the resumes of any of them. None of them have really ever administered anything or headed up any kind of organization or business. How any of them would actually function in such a capacity, like the Presidency, is really anyone's guess. That's why the argument could certainly be made that Palin, having had run her own company, served as Governor, and her various other experience, is actually more experienced and more relevant to a Presidential role.
See why the argument that she's inexperienced is really a weak one?
YOu seem so knowledgeable and well-spoken about politics. Are you a student in PoliSci? ...Have you considered being an analyst or running for office?
Btw, thanks for the explanations. Makes more sense now.
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 7:53:29 PM
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solomonsprayer
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Does age count as experience?
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:05:36 PM
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Jhud
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quote:
Does age count as experience?
It does, unless you are an Obama supporter.
_____________________________
Jack
It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first..
- Ronald Reagan
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:06:24 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
YOu seem so knowledgeable and well-spoken about politics. Are you a student in PoliSci? ...Have you considered being an analyst or running for office?
Btw, thanks for the explanations. Makes more sense now.
Don't I wish. History major here. But my first job out of college was in the State Senate. I had a great boss who sat down and explained to me many times why a legislator voted a certain way or made the remark he made in a committee meeting. It was fascinating to me! I love the political game! Times like this, election season, always makes me wish I'd stayed in it. I'm just on the outside looking in now.
If Bush Sr had won reelection I was planning to drop out of grad school and head to DC with resume in hand. I was working with people in the state campaign office who told me to just go straight up to the White House and apply for a job. I had a friend who had done just that during the Reagan Administration. I was devastated when Clinton won. Never occured to me that he would!
But a few months later I met dh so it turned out to be for the best - for me anyway. Not so sure it was best for the country!
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:07:30 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jhud
quote:
Does age count as experience?
It does, unless you are an Obama supporter.
I don't think so. I'd vote for any Joe off the street before Ted Kennedy or Robert Byrd, for example!
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:09:52 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
There are different kinds of experience, though. Generally, executive is considered more valuable for a President than legislative experience. But, apparently, for the first time since Kennedy, we're going to have a Legislator ascend to the Presidency - something that is pretty rare in our history - but inevitable this time. The only person on the ticket with even an ounce of executive (or real world) experience of any kind is the newcomer, Palin.
The judgment of experience should also be weighted differently for a Presidential candidate than for a VP candidate. I love the audacity to want to make a point of Obama being more experienced than Palin. First, that's highly debatable! Second, it's apples to oranges - they're not running for the same office. One may have to be President four months from now, zero learning curve! The other may, someday, possibly become President - or maybe not. Apples to oranges.
Also, experience can be good or bad. Pundits are making a big deal of it but what does the average voter really feel about experience? Is experience in Washington really a plus? Aren't we all so sick of the status quo that we almost fell for Obama's rhetoric of change? His true colors have become more apparent - he's the same politician, the same Washington insider, that the rest of them are, the same old thing we've had about enough of! So we can argue who has the most experience, what experience is best, etc. But the real question is whether or not experience is even a good thing for where we are right now.
That's a very insightful analysis.
Experience alone in doing something, imo, is not necessarily good if it was a job poorly done. So in that regard I feel that things like degree of success making good choices (since no one is perfect in their job) and a strong character/heart are also very important and tied into evaluating a candidate's overall package.
Basically, it's did the person have right heart/motives/character and did he/she carry out successfully those things deemed important on the job?
(....In terms of looking at Palin, how is it that she might operate in Washington differently from everyone else before her? Can she really always make the right choices and be successful...avoid partisan politics, catering to lobbyists and financeers, and being unswayed by other pressures? ...Is it that hard to do and is she capable of that?)
Also, is Obama's experience as a community organizer relevant here?
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/1/2008 8:20:08 PM >
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:24:07 PM
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csl7037
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quote:
ORIGINAL: solomonsprayer
(....In terms of looking at Palin, how is it that she might operate in Washington differently from everyone else before her? Can she really always make the right choices and be successful...avoid partisan politics, catering to lobbyists and financeers, and being unswayed by other pressures? ...Is it that hard to do and is she capable of that?)
Also, is Obama's experience as a community organizer relevant here?
Palin has proven and gained a reputation for standing up for herself and for what she believes and making things happen. By all accounts, she's a tough lady. How she'll handle the inevitable negotiation and give and take that has to happen in Washington, especially if she were saddled with a hostile Congress, remains to be seen. I'm not sure how much of that she had to do in Alaska.
I don't even know what "community organizer" means. I plan my cul de sac's annual Holiday Progressive Dinner . . . does that make me a community organizer??
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 8:38:35 PM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
Palin has proven and gained a reputation for standing up for herself and for what she believes and making things happen. By all accounts, she's a tough lady. How she'll handle the inevitable negotiation and give and take that has to happen in Washington, especially if she were saddled with a hostile Congress, remains to be seen. I'm not sure how much of that she had to do in Alaska.
I don't even know what "community organizer" means. I plan my cul de sac's annual Holiday Progressive Dinner . . . does that make me a community organizer??
Good thoughts on Palin...a good track record is important to go by.
As for the second question...no you are not an official city organizer if you could not list it as a primary job on your resume I don't think...I think Obama's was more structured and complex...but I too do not know what he did. I have only heard Hillary's accusations of him working and/or being associated with a slum lord. ? 
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/1/2008 11:51:59 PM
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Psalm22
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From: Alaska! Breaking is in progress, soon be spring!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
...
Palin has proven and gained a reputation for standing up for herself and for what she believes and making things happen. By all accounts, she's a tough lady. How she'll handle the inevitable negotiation and give and take that has to happen in Washington, especially if she were saddled with a hostile Congress, remains to be seen. I'm not sure how much of that she had to do in Alaska.
I don't even know what "community organizer" means. I plan my cul de sac's annual Holiday Progressive Dinner . . . does that make me a community organizer??
There has definitely been opposition between Palin and members of the Alaska Legislature, most notably over AGIA (Alaksa Gasline Inducement Act) and the slection of a company. It's why she called them into a special session - she didn't get the result she wanted and told them to try again. Also, the disagreement between Lyda Green (a legislator) and Palin is well-known up here.
You still have a few days left before the Friday & Saturday articles in the Anchorage Daily News go into paid archive. Might want to check some of them out.
_____________________________
And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" And let him who thirsts come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely. Rev. 22:17
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/2/2008 7:42:17 AM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Psalm22
There has definitely been opposition between Palin and members of the Alaska Legislature, most notably over AGIA (Alaksa Gasline Inducement Act) and the slection of a company. It's why she called them into a special session - she didn't get the result she wanted and told them to try again. Also, the disagreement between Lyda Green (a legislator) and Palin is well-known up here.
You still have a few days left before the Friday & Saturday articles in the Anchorage Daily News go into paid archive. Might want to check some of them out.
Ohhh oooh ohhhhh....must check that out.
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/2/2008 8:09:08 AM
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huskarine
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to bring the thread back to topic (not to demean the last couple of posts)...
I believe that experience is essential. I would never vote for someone in a position who wouldn't know what they are doing. The Executive Branch is nothing but action, from the oath of office til the end of term. OJT has to be limited as much as possible. We need someone in there that we know is true and has seen this office work in some capacity.
The President of the United States is the leader of the free world, the commander in chief, the chief diplomat, chief executor, etc.....SO MANY ROLES!!! SO MUCH IMPORTANCE!!!
They say that the decisions made in this office will make someone age rather quick (one thing i fear about McCain, although i will be voting for him)...
i understand that there is a bad taste left on people's mouths about bureaucratic DC politicians, but i think that with this business, it IS unavoidable. that is why we need to take "change" as a grain of salt....in essence, it's a lie. remember, more than half the politicians in there were lawyers at some point...
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"Success is equated with excess/the ambition for excess wrecks us/as the top of the mind becomes the bottom line/when success is equated with excess" -Switchfoot "American Dream"
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/2/2008 9:12:31 AM
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solomonsprayer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huskarine
to bring the thread back to topic (not to demean the last couple of posts)...
I believe that experience is essential. I would never vote for someone in a position who wouldn't know what they are doing. The Executive Branch is nothing but action, from the oath of office til the end of term. OJT has to be limited as much as possible. We need someone in there that we know is true and has seen this office work in some capacity.
The President of the United States is the leader of the free world, the commander in chief, the chief diplomat, chief executor, etc.....SO MANY ROLES!!! SO MUCH IMPORTANCE!!!
They say that the decisions made in this office will make someone age rather quick (one thing i fear about McCain, although i will be voting for him)...
i understand that there is a bad taste left on people's mouths about bureaucratic DC politicians, but i think that with this business, it IS unavoidable. that is why we need to take "change" as a grain of salt....in essence, it's a lie. remember, more than half the politicians in there were lawyers at some point...
But as I pointed out earlier, bad experience is just as bad or worse than no/less experience. ...
Simply being older and having worked longer does not made someone more qualified. If they were terrible at their jobs before, they are bringing that history of failure with them to a position where they might make greater mistakes.
That's why I said experience ought to be defined differently (see above posts for my definition)...
Though ideally, all candidates would have good, successful, relevant experience in politics. (But hey, remember King Solomon of the Bible had no experience before leading Israel...just the right heart. ...and God wanted him!)
< Message edited by solomonsprayer -- 9/2/2008 9:19:11 AM >
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/23/2008 4:24:16 AM
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solomonsprayer
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*bump* ...Let us revive this thread. 
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/23/2008 9:09:49 AM
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rcjames
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I do not value experience nearly as much as I do character.
Enough experience to have an idea of their character is sufficient for me.
I really do wonder if all the "Experience" of our long time Washington politicians is not a major part of the problems.
I do supprt term limits, so that is indicative that exsperience is way down on my list of things to be concerned about.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/23/2008 11:45:04 AM
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adelphi_sky
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I highly value experience. And by experience I mean:
1. Some form of regular interaction and participation with national and state legislature, i.e. member of congress or governor of state.
2. Some foreign policy experience. Meetings with heads of state (definitely a plus) regular to heavy involvement in international policy and/or trade.
3. Some former grass roots experience dealing with local communities, i.e. council member, mayor, community organizer, neighborhood advocate/association.
4. Some experience with a budget other than personal.
5. Someone who knows who the key players are in Washington and industry. This would be for forming a good cabinet and advisers.
6. Greater than normal knowledge of the constitution would be a plus.
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RE: How Do You Value Experience in Choosing a Pres. or VP? - 9/23/2008 11:57:08 AM
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Dubya
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
McCain and Biden are certainly career legislators. Obama's short career is legislative; even in his limited experience prior to that it was in law and education - nothing executive on the resumes of any of them. None of them have really ever administered anything or headed up any kind of organization or business.
This is not completely true for McCain.
He was the commanding officer of a training squadron for almost 3 years. This is most certainly executive experience... although not in the traditional business or political sense.
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